Iran Continues Defiant Posturing

Originally posted by marg6043
Muaddib

Nothing that you have posted is new is the same propaganda use by the government you cherish and revere so much to justified another of his very good agendas of making the middle east accessible to his private interest.
...........

Is it? How exactly is it the same propaganda when you, among some other people, claim that only the U.S. wants Iran to be referred to the Security Council, and that everything said against Iran was made up and is propaganda done by the U.S.... But again, you are shown links from sites which have nothing to do with the U.S. government, and they are Arabic news sources, which includes the statements from the former president of Iran corroborating that Ahmadinejad did say what every newspaper in the world reported and you still claim "it is propagand by the U.S.?....

Ahmadinejad made a mistake, he obviously had that speech intended only for the hard liners who were listening to him in Iran, yet the news got out of what he really said. If you would know anyone from Iran and you should ask them if there are billboards and murals, sanctioned by the Iranian government, which clearly say "Death to Israel, Death to America".

Sorry hun, but all you are doing is posting your opinion, you have not proven what you claim, and obviously you are not able to accept when you are wrong, even when proof which refutes what you say is shown.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by Muaddib]

Muaddib

So I guess we need to take care of Iran before it annihilates Israel because of one leader that can not keep his mouth shut and be a good boy and be friendly to Israel and the US.

I understand now, darn dumb me.

Tell me is that the role of the US in the world and the good agenda of the present administration, to go attack and invade countries that their leaders cannot keep their mouth shut, or the reason to hate Iran is due to the fact that China and Russian have business deals to drill their oil and that will take away from the hold of US control of in the middle east now that they are occupying Iraq.

I guess I already know your answer.

Marg, first of all, you claim it is all for oil... well, according to you the only reason why we went to Iraq was for the same...Well...where is the oil?.... Where is the increase of imports to the United States of oil from Iraq?.... It is almost as if...the oil doesn't exist...it must have all burned down in the first Gulf War.... or maybe most of the oil is going to the Iraqis...and not to the U.S.....

Anyways, first you say "it is all propaganda by the U.S." now you claim that "the only reason for going after Iran is oil, and everything else is just lies and propaganda, and as an excuse the U.S. claims is just because of a crazy leader saying he wants to destroy Israel and other countries"...

Well, you have been proven wrong once again. It is not just "because of one leader", most of those people in power in Iran have talked time and again about destroying Israel, one thing of notice, Ahmadinejad was a senior officer in the Special Brigade of the Revolutionary Guards, which proves even more that "he just doesn't talk" he has directed assassinations, and suppresions of dissidents in Iran and abroad.

I have given in the past several links to what other senior leaders in Iran have to say, including senior Mullahs saying it is alright for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons, and to use them if the whole world has them.

You might want to take a chance, for whatever reason you might have, to allow such a regime continue making these threats and trying to acquire nuclear technology, but most Israelis don't want to take that chance. They won't let their lives hang in the wishes and whims of a madman regime that wants the destruction of Israel.

You might even claim, why should we help the Israelis?...well, perhaps you never heard the concept of ally... It is the same as having someone you consider part of your family and you want to protect against bullies.

The United States is not the bully here, the regime of Iran is...

Anyways, the following is some information on Ahmadinejad previous activities, which I am sure you will claim "it is just propaganda by the United States"..., but it is not.

Ahmadinejad was a senior officer in the Special Brigade of the Revolutionary Guards, stationed at Ramazan Garrison near Kermanshah in western Iran. This was the headquarters of the Revolutionary Guards’ "Extra-territorial Operations" -- mounting attacks beyond Iran’s borders. His work in the Revolutionary Guards was related to suppression of dissidents in Iran and abroad. He personally participated in covert operations around the Iraqi city of Kirkuk.

With the formation of the elite Qods (Jerusalem) Force of the IRGC, Ahmadinejad became one of its senior commanders. He directed assassinations in the Middle East and Europe, including the assassination of Iranian Kurdish leader Abdorrahman Qassemlou, who was shot dead by senior officers of the Revolutionary Guards in a Vienna flat in July 1989. Ahmadinejad was a key planner of the attack. He was reported to have been involved in planning an attempt on the life of Salman Rushdie.

www.globalsecurity.org...

and here another link
www.iranfocus.com...

Oh, and one more thing, in one of the less publicized speeches of Ahmadinejad he stated.

Soon after his election Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that the ultimate goal of Iran's foreign policy is nothing less than "a government for the world" under the Muslim leadership of the Mahdi. "The United States is in its last death throes, in the sunset of its power destined to be superceded by the sunrise of the Islamic Republic and its global revolution,” he stated. The geopolitical dominance of the Middle East, he continued, is the incontestable right of the Iranian nation.

www.biu.ac.il...

No wonder Ahmadinejad and Chavez like each other so much, they both have the same goal, becoming greater superpowers and exporting their revolution around the world, and of course the United States cannot be allowed to stay as a superpower or they will be stopped. Anyways, I will see if i can find other sources to verify what is said in the site above, because I already know what your response is going to be like...


[edit on 1-9-2006 by Muaddib]

The following is a link to the site of an Iranian, Masoud Kazemzadeh, who is an Associate Professor in the Department of Political Science at Sam Houston State University in Huntsville, Texas.

This man presents in his site translations as to what the president of Iran, and other political and religious leaders in Iran have to say about this whole issue. the entire link provides lots of information, some of which I was not aware of and I will dig in some more to try to find some validation of these statements.

Anyways, here it is.

Old policy, new fears
Ahmadinejad's comments about Israel are nothing new. But the international outrage reflects concerns about where Iran's nucler program may be heading.

www.iranian.com...

> intimidation is not allow in the boards.



Yeah... Like you could be 'intimidated'... Please!

I laid out a prima facia case in support of my assertion that you are turning a blind eye to TERRORISM.

You're not the only one at ATS that does... So it's no big deal. I'm always more interested in the 'why'. You sound like you suffer from a bit of the 'disillusionment bug' going around from people who have bought in part and parcel into the REAL PROPAGANDA generated against the USA (and Israel) mostly throughout the Arab/Muslim world.

Besides... it's a nice way to not really provide direct responses to direct questions that have been asked of you by myself, and the indefatigable Muaddib.

Anytime anyone says anything you don't want to deal with... it rhetorically becomes 'propaganda'.

Those of us who play the role of honest observer point out to you that Iran is ALREADY fighting wars against the USA (and Israel) and that is certainly not propaganda.

And those nitwits that 'run' Iran WILL use nuclear weapons against the Israelis within minutes of achieving functional weapons...

They have already clearly demonstrated they have little regard for Arabs (they are Persians ), by the insane casualties they cause on a daily basis in Iraq and the somewhat significant devastation they brought onto Lebanon and northern Israel.

The Iranians are clearly stupid and rabid enough to actually use nuclear weapons.

Why is it you seem unable to comprehend something so plainly visible?

Muadibb and Golemina,

Iran is not going to nuke anybody and this the last time I will say is all propaganda.

Now when Iran nuke Israel we will talk again.

When Israel attack Iran and US help them then I will again say It as all propaganda and a big lie like Iraq was.

See you until then.

(on my part of course... ).

Iran can't decide which set of lies it wants to go with... but I would guess that is just personal commentary.

Why is it, in your opinion , Marg6043 that Iran has stated that if they are attacked by USA, they will attack Israel!

How is THAT legitimate?

More importantly... don't you view that as pulling the mask off the face of this Iran only wants... for PEACE nonsense?

If the Administration had any credibility about taking down states that support terrorism, we would have take Iran to task a long time ago...

Originally posted by golemina

If the Administration had any credibility about taking down states that support terrorism, we would have take Iran to task a long time ago...

No really,

Iraq was needed to be taken care first in order to pave the roads to the other countries in the middle east that has been tagged Axis of evil.

Plus Israel complained to much about Iraq posible threat to their stability, much like now is complaining about Iran, Syria and lebanon.

Now that US has dominance of air and land in Iraq then . . . If you have imagination you can pretty much guess the rest.

Plust if Israel plans to attack Iran first it will be no problem for them to go over Iraqi space with US blessing, but if Iran goes over Iraqi space it may be seen as an act of war.

Sometimes targetting the weakest country is better for strategic reason, taking into consideration that Iran will not be an easy target compare to Iraq due to the support of their people regarless of what we have been told in the US about the unhappisness of their population after all religion is an integral and important part of that nation and they will put their religious ties first when it comes to their nation, while in Iraq was always tribal rivalries.

Iran has a very complex political system far more organized that Iraq Saddam government was.

The problem is that things didn't came out the way it was expected, but that will not stop the agenda.

But be aware that Israel is getting ready to attack Iran and it will be with not provocation but the suppousely verbal abuse of the leader of Iran and in the premises of been anhilated.

I think you already know that.

Marg, again, you are stating "your opinion", although some of the things you are saying could very well be true, none of it denies the fact that Iran's regime wants to destroy Israel, and it's people, and the new president in Iran is a hardliner, who has clearly stated he won't be stopped by anyone.

Marg, I can say with certainty that if you had a neighbor close to you and that neighbor kept yelling threats at you to kill you and your entire family, and if that neighbor hired bullies, in plain sight, and those bullies repetively kept throwing stones at your house, hurting and even killing your family members, you wouldn't be claiming "it is all government propaganda"....but you will either call the police to deal with that situation, or your husband/family would do something to stop it.... so, unless you have "facts" to back your claim that "it is all propaganda", and if those claims can deny what every link I have given says, then I will agree with you, but if you can't.....all you are doing is "giving your opinion"...nothing more. Facts are more reliable than "opinions"....

[edit on 5-9-2006 by Muaddib]

Why does the neighbor want to kill the other neighbor? If my neighbor grows his garden on my land.. would that be it?

My questions is:


Why does Iran want to destroy Israel? Is it something to do with how the British
implanted the latter into Arab lands?

Originally posted by MuaddibMarg, I can say with certainty that if you had a neighbor close to you and that neighbor kept yelling threats at you to kill you and your entire family

This is not an apt analogy. It would be more appropriate to state that family A appropriated family B's land. Then family C, D, E, etc. of family B found fault in family A and they all fought over whos land it was.

Israel was not always there, let's not forget that. It doesn't make the killing of civilians in Israel OK, but neither is Israel some innocent family without fault.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Marg, again, you are stating "your opinion",

That is the problem Muaddib I got an opinion while you all that has brought is the same propaganda that Bush is selling to you and the American public.

Yes is you right to follow what you believe and Is my right also.

At least I can read, see, and put one on one together, I got an opinion and I don't follow politicians agendas.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

This is not an apt analogy. It would be more appropriate to state that family A appropriated family B's land. Then family C, D, E, etc. of family B found fault in family A and they all fought over whos land it was.

Israel was not always there, let's not forget that. It doesn't make the killing of civilians in Israel OK, but neither is Israel some innocent family without fault.

and Palestine was never and it is not even now a country....it was a region where many people lived in, including Jewish people, despite some wanting to hide that part of history....

If you are so willing to give Israel away because Arab people were in control of the area for a while, why aren't you asking for the Arabs to return the lands they have "stolen" from the rest of the Middle East including the region of Palestine?....

The fact is that Israel exists as a nation, they accepted the partition agreement, what we call now "Palestinians" did not accep the agreement, hence not having a country.

Originally posted by Muaddib
The fact is that Israel exists as a nation, they accepted the partition agreement, what we call now "Palestinians" did not accep the agreement, hence not having a country.

I like that. The minority in the region accepts the land partition agreement whilst the majority rejected it, but it was implemented anyway. How is that, by definition, an agreement? More of a "directive" than any sort of agreement.

And the Arabs didn't control Palestinine for "a while".. It was several hundred years. The Mameluke's, followed by the Ottomans had control over the area since the 1400's. Prior to that, it changed hands between Christian Crusaders and Arabs for a few hundred years. The Jewish population was a very small minority right up to the beginning of WW2.

Originally posted by Muaddib
and Palestine was never and it is not even now a country....it was a region where many people lived in, including Jewish people, despite some wanting to hide that part of history....

Only in Western countries do they call it Palestine, most other countries call that area and people Philistine. Second, that area was under Ottoman control until the First World War, so yes, it was inhabited and it was under control of a state until the British turned it into a colony, or "mandate."

If you are so willing to give Israel away because Arab people were in control of the area for a while.

Of course Israel is not going anywhere, but why are you so willing to be blind to the truth that Israel was not there sixty years ago? The Arabs & Turks were in charge of it for almost two thousand years, except for intermittent times such as during the crusades.

You know what is the most amazing thing? Jamuhn, that people truly believe that the struggles in the Middle East are the result of 9/11 and that is why US is involve in that area.

Funny that US politician has been trying to shape the Middle Eastern nations policies and governments since the British Empire left the area.

Avoiding historical facts is the best way to keep the American population been fed on propaganda so the agendas behind the war on terror and the evilness of some middle eastern nations can be accepted as something that Is the fault of the people in the middle east and not of the west.

In this way people is geared to believe no in the reasons as why is Political violence against the west but as why the west if in a moral fight against evil regimes.

I think 70 years of broken policies toward the Arabs nations in the Middle East is enough to turn anger into violence.

Our political leaders through the years have shown that it holds no respect to the people of the area.

Taking sides whenever if feels that is an advantage to their political standing in the world and bringing our nation with it.

U.S. alliances with Iraq to counter Iran and then with Iran and Syria to counter Iraq, will render any population in a state of completely opposition to what our political leaders has to offer.

For 45 years this type of behavior has been part of the US politician’s strategy in the Middle East and then we are horrified how terrorism has come to the point of what is today.

Darn it took 70 years to get to this point!!!!!! Any surprises?

People don’t get it, the same governments that our political leaders favor in the Middle East will no longer be friends once the political strategies of our governments change.

We no only support feudal monarchies but also autocratic governments as long as the needs of our government’s agendas for the moments are fulfilled.

Originally posted by golemina
> intimidation is not allow in the boards.

Golemina,

That one did not slip by me. Just to make you aware.

Originally posted by marg6043
You know what is the most amazing thing? Jamuhn, that people truly believe that the struggles in the Middle East are the result of 9/11 and that is why US is involve in that area.

No, I would wager that most adult Americans are aware enough to realize that peoples of the Middle East have been killing each other with great gusto for centuries, long before the birth of our nation. Those of us who have been watching the ME for the last 25 years know that 9/11 is but a paragraph in one chapter of this long saga.

Originally posted by marg6043Funny that US politician has been trying to shape the Middle Eastern nations policies and governments since the British Empire left the area.

So? Just what do you think our State Department is for anyways? Meets and greets with head-of-state du jour who come to visit? I expect them to shape the policies and attitudes of our foreign neighbors to conform with those that we hold true. Especially those nations who are populated by fanatics and ruled by despots. Everybody keeps insisting that "democracy" is what we need to push. Thats a real load. We may think they need it, but the reality is that a) they don't want it b) they don't respect it c) they are not mature enough to handle it. What we and the Iraqis need is good old fashioned stability and control. You know, the kind of support and control that only a propped-up dictator or secretly-supported monarch can get you.

Originally posted by marg6043Avoiding historical facts is the best way to keep the American population been fed on propaganda so the agendas behind the war on terror and the evilness of some middle eastern nations can be accepted as something that Is the fault of the people in the middle east and not of the west.

I believe there is plenty of anti-war propaganda out there to counterbalance any tripe that BushCo is pushing. And while the "west" may have stirred the pot over the years, it doesn't fully explain the actions and motivations of all the involved parties, nor is it a justification for violent and repressive societies that have and are evolving in the ME. Oil and modern technology are conspiring against us to allow a scattered, zealous rabble to become rich, well-armed, and organized. Their maturation and empowerment would seem to have been an eventuality, and we are just the current target.

Originally posted by marg6043In this way people is geared to believe no in the reasons as why is Political violence against the west but as why the west if in a moral fight against evil regimes.

I think 70 years of broken policies toward the Arabs nations in the Middle East is enough to turn anger into violence.

The fact that our policies have changed over the years, and from administration-to-administration, does not make us guilty of anything, except for looking out for ourselves. These countries and peoples are not ready for the democratic process and free societies. They are too backward and underdeveloped, and it is not their tradition (yet). They need strong leadership they can respect (and maybe fear). We were stupid enough to let the Shah fall from power, and now we are faced with a nation of religious nuts is search of The Bomb with more money than God. A miscalculation / personal vendetta agaisnt Saddam has ended up in a quagmire of terrorism and civil war. Its not about oil, and its not about territory - its about stability. And we are blundering badly right now with these stupid democracy ideals.

Originally posted by marg6043Our political leaders through the years have shown that it holds no respect to the people of the area.

Maybe. But why should we respect them? Respect is usually earned, not given away freely.

Originally posted by marg6043Taking sides whenever if feels that is an advantage to their political standing in the world and bringing our nation with it.

U.S. alliances with Iraq to counter Iran and then with Iran and Syria to counter Iraq, will render any population in a state of completely opposition to what our political leaders has to offer.

For 45 years this type of behavior has been part of the US politician’s strategy in the Middle East and then we are horrified how terrorism has come to the point of what is today.

Darn it took 70 years to get to this point!!!!!! Any surprises?

People don’t get it, the same governments that our political leaders favor in the Middle East will no longer be friends once the political strategies of our governments change.

We no only support feudal monarchies but also autocratic governments as long as the needs of our government’s agendas for the moments are fulfilled.

I think you are on the rails, but not on the right track. See above.......

Pyros

You post shows the true nature of a totalitarian governments believes when it comes to the rest of the world.

Only one nation on top of one world.

Hail to the Bush administration and its definition of peace and demcracy for the world.

Originally posted by marg6043
Pyros

You post shows the true nature of a totalitarian governments believes when it comes to the rest of the world.

Only one nation on top of one world.

Hail to the Bush administration and its definition of peace and demcracy for the world.

I'm sorry. Could you rephrase that? I missed your meaning.......

Are you saying that the US is a totalitarian nation? Bearing ib mind that a totalitarian system of government is a "form of government that subordinates all aspects of its citizens' lives to the authority of the state, with a single charismatic leader as the ultimate authority".

The world will always have nations, and some will be more powerful than others. Some will dominate, and some will be dominated. It is the nature of all things. It is the way this world works. The idea of all nations standing together equally in brotherly love singing Kum Ba Ya around the campfire is silly fantasy.

Get used to being the top dog, and jettison your burdensome guilt. You'll be a lot happier.