Iran Continues Defiant Posturing

Originally posted by golemina

>Tell me who in this thread has voiced their support on terrorism?

Why you... among others.

I want you to show me Where in this thread I said that I support terrorism.

I want a quote please of my words.

I will be waiting.

Muadibb Iran is not going to nuke anybody is all propaganda plain and simple.

You believe what you want that is your choice.

Originally posted by marg6043
.................
Muadibb Iran is not going to nuke anybody is all propaganda plain and simple.

You believe what you want that is your choice.

Plain and simple?...as plain and simple as the Iranian president saying the goal of the regime is to pave the way for the 12th Imam through chaos?....

No Marg, you don't have any "inside info" and I am pretty sure that you don't know the Iranian president personally, nor the regime that well. Apparently you don't know anything at all of that regime by what I can see from your responses.

Despite you and some others "claiming" because you are the only ones "claiming" it is all propaganda, the facts show the contrary. You can deny the truth all you want, it is not going to change the facts.

I don't know the Iranian president personally, but I have been researching his regime and his statements for a long time now, and the facts contradict your claims.

BTW, i noted how you changed your statement from "nobody is going to wipe out Israel" to "nobody is going to nuke Israel".

Despite what you want to believe, there is a goal among the Iranian regime on wanting to destroy Israel.....

You talk a lot about "propaganda", but obviously some of the people who have fallen to the propaganda that "the Iranian regime is innocent and they just want to be at peace and don't want to destroy anyone" is you among some others.

[edit on 30-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
No Marg, you don't have any "inside info" and I am pretty sure that you don't know the Iranian president personally, nor the regime that well. Apparently you don't know anything at all of that regime by what I can see from your responses.

Neither do you, neither do you, because your mind is already set on one line thinking, in your mind is your way or the highway.

You can not possible see anything beyond what your mind is already set on.

Despite you and some others "claiming" because you are the only ones "claiming" it is all propaganda, the facts show the contrary. You can deny the truth all you want, it is not going to change the facts.

The fact is . . . that your mind will never understand what propaganda is and never will.

The so call claiming is not just only ones claiming but that you will never understand either.

I don't know the Iranian president personally, but I have been researching his regime and his statements for a long time now, and the facts contradict your claims.

Well so have I and guess what . . . no matter how much you research you views and opinions will always fall short because you have make up your mind.

BTW, i noted how you changed your statement from "nobody is going to wipe out Israel" to "nobody is going to nuke Israel".

Is nothing but propaganda the propaganda that will be used to gain PO when the time comes for either Israel or the US to attack that country.

Yes because in your mind to understand what the agenda may be would be anti American and terrorist supported like I have been acuse off, something that I give a jack about really, you can not possibly have room for any other thoughts but the ones that you support and favor you political ideologies.

Despite what you want to believe, there is a goal among the Iranian regime on wanting to destroy Israel.....

Its only Iran with that thought? well I guess that all roads lead to Iran because Iraq has already been taking care off.

Now talking about nuclear weapons it seems that the only country that was allow to make them and used them was the US.

Now any other country that is not in the good side of the US wants to destroy the world.

Is nothing more than propaganda, dirty and nasty just like the present administration's politics, dirty and nasty.

You keep your ideologies I stand by mine at least I am not narrow minded or blinded by political interest.

Originally posted by marg6043
......
Now any other country that is not in the good side of the US wants to destroy the world.

What is funny is that noone in the United States has said anything about annihilating a people, or a country, yet when others talk about attacking the U.S. or Israel, you claim it is all propaganda even if the words of those people are printed directly from websites from those countries where the statements were made...

Originally posted by marg6043
Is nothing more than propaganda, dirty and nasty just like the present administration's politics, dirty and nasty.

Where is the proof of that?... you know "evidence" to back your claim?...

Originally posted by marg6043
You keep your ideologies I stand by mine at least I am not narrow minded or blinded by political interests

Political interests?... What political interests do i have Marg?... care to present proof of my "political interests"?....

[edit on 30-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Jamuhn, I am not supporting or defending either side of this issue, I am simply trying to show how the case is being made.

Perhaps the Iranian leader has been misquoted, or had words taken out of context, or maybe he is as crazy as some claim.

Or will it be too late?

Your correct,
although, you can only be 'misquoted, mis interpreted and mis understood ' so many times, until its starting to become apparent that either he's purposfully making his meanings be interpreted that way.

Honestly... every speach isnt taken out of context is it..
if he talks like a nazi, walks like a nazi and acts like a nazi, there's a good chance he is a nazi... its a small chance that he's been mistaken soo many individual times.

How can people say his rhetoric about israel is all the media's spin.

What just happened with lebanon?

How can anyone say iran isnt a threat to israel? and honestly believe it.



" I hate israel, they need to be removed as a country, drive them into the sea, death to israel, kill the zionest, death to america, the UN is curropt, hezbollah is gods army... but nuclear material?.. i swear I only want that for energy. "



[edit on 31-8-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Muaddib, I apologize for the agenda point I should have say Faithful political ideologies .

You know US never has said that it wants to annihilated a country and you may be right . . . but we can never forget Who was the first country that used a nuclear weapon on another country without even thinking of the consequences of its actions.

Kind of interesting . . . right?

If you can no see the reality of the agendas of our government interest in the region then is nothing else to discuss because you will never allow yourself to even picture that our present administration is corrupted.

Tell me muaddib and I am asking candidly. . .

I asked before to the person that started this thread but he failed to answer. . .

Is Iran a sovereign nation?

Does Iran have the right to defend itself and its people from a foreign aggression?

If Israel attacks Iran . . . does Iran has the right to defend itself?

If US attacks Iran . . . does Iran has the right to defend itself?

Tell me . . .or tagging Iran an axis of evil and its leaders derange and mad man . . .exempt them from that right as a sovereign nation?

Then no wonder the middle east is breeding terrorist, and terrorism . . . the war on terror’s agenda is to keep the terrorism alive and well feed.


[edit on 31-8-2006 by marg6043]

Well golemina I guess I now understand where you are coming from with accusations of Me and others supporting terrorism . . . I am still waiting for the quote that said that I support terrorism.

It seems that Mr. Rumfeld new tactic against war opponents is now tagging them as supporters of terrorism.

So I guess that . . . when political leaders in their desperation to gain PO and votes for their parties have to step low and dirty and tag anybody that Disagree with our present administration agenda . . . supporters of terrorism and fascists.

Very interesting, I stand by my last post . . Our present administration is nasty, dirty and corrupt.

After reading the definition of fascism I will say that it applies to the present administration more than to any anti-war crowd.

In unusually explicit terms, Rumsfeld portrayed the administration's critics as suffering from "moral or intellectual confusion" about what threatens the nation's security and accused them of lacking the courage to fight back

www.dispatch.com...

Originally posted by marg6043
Muaddib, I apologize for the agenda point I should have say Faithful political ideologies .

You know US never has said that it wants to annihilated a country and you may be right . . . but we can never forget Who was the first country that used a nuclear weapon on another country without even thinking of the consequences of its actions.

Kind of interesting . . . right?

What is kind of interesting is that you forget the reason why that bomb was dropped, the United States didn't start that fight, but the United States finished it and made sure that there was no invasion in U.S. soil.

Why is it that you are not even mentioning that the Pacific fleet was pretty much completly destroyed by the Japanese with their surprise attack?, leaving that side of the United States open for ground invasion?....

Again, this is just a strawman's trying to strenghten your "opinion".

Originally posted by marg6043
If you can no see the reality of the agendas of our government interest in the region then is nothing else to discuss because you will never allow yourself to even picture that our present administration is corrupted.

You claim the agenda is by "our government" yet most of the world wants to take Iran to the Security council of the UN because of it's threats and because the Iranian regime wants to acquire nuclear technology, the same nuclear technology they were working on in secret for almost 2 decades to build "nuclear weapons" not peaceful energy.

The Iranian regime lied time and again claiming they did not have a nuclear weapons program, so tell me why are you so willing to let them have nuclear technology when we know they lied in the past, we know that Senior Mullahs in Iran have said it is alright for Iran to have nuclear weapons and use them if the world has them, we also know that the Iranian president himself has said the goal of the regime is to pave the way for the 12th Imam and in order for this to happen there must be chaos in the world, not only that but most people in power in Iran have clearly said they want to see Israel destroyed and the west, which includes the United States, but you and some other people, for some reason want to claim these are just an agenda by the west?....

Originally posted by marg6043
Tell me muaddib and I am asking candidly. . .

I asked before to the person that started this thread but he failed to answer. . .

Is Iran a sovereign nation?

Yes, they are a sovereign nation, but since when does that given the right to make threats to destroy another nation and seek technology which can actually do what their threats say they will do?....

I am pretty sure that if it had been the United States making threats to destroy another nation you would be jumping the bandwagon and said the United States government is criminal they had to be stopped etc, etc, etc... You have even misquoted people like Condoleza Rice and you have claimed she has stated the U.S. government wanted to start another wolrd war, yet you were proven wrong.

Why is it that you are willing to claim all the threats made by the Iranian regime are "a propaganda by the U.S." and then claim it is the U.S. who wants to "destroy nations when noone in the U.S. administration has said they want to see destroyed a whole nation and a whole people?....

Originally posted by marg6043
Does Iran have the right to defend itself and its people from a foreign aggression?

DEfend itself yes but the Iranian regime is making threats to attack and destroy Israel, among some other nations, that is aggression not "defense"....

Originally posted by marg6043
If Israel attacks Iran . . . does Iran has the right to defend itself?

If US attacks Iran . . . does Iran has the right to defend itself?

Yet you are so willing to let slide the statements of the Iranian regime to destroy other countries.... The aggresor is not the United States, nor Israel.

Originally posted by marg6043
Tell me . . .or tagging Iran an axis of evil and its leaders derange and mad man . . .except them from that right as a sovereign nation?

Tell me, does being a sovereign nation gives them the right to threaten to destroy Israel and other nations and to systematically look for ways to do this?...

Originally posted by marg6043
Then no wonder the middle east is breeding terrorist, and terrorism . . . the war on terror’s agenda is to keep the terrorism alive and well feed.

Terrorist in the Middle East has been breeding for Millenia, it is nothing new, but how convinient for you to claim it is because of the west.....

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Marg, you go, girl!!

Our leaders have done a great job in uniting this country, havent they? Just when you think things couldnt get worse, another little "bumper sticker" saying comes along that just boggles the mind. They continue in their quest for division. Just listen to Limbaughhhhh and Hannity.

Muaddib

See . . . Muaddib you are supporting the same propaganda that our present administration is using to open the roads to attack another nation in the name of They want to destroy Israel.

Tell me Muaddib beside Iran being accused of supporting and financing terrorism . . .but you forget that other nations does the same and with nuclear capabilites too.

Pakistan (nuclear weapons), Saudi (they are our friends and oil partners) Egypt (they are our friends) yes . . . our nation realy knows how to chose its friends.

What nation Iran have invaded or wagged war in the middle east recently?

Or is only the right of Israel and US to invade and attack nations in that area because is for the Good of the world.

Or just for the good of corporate agendas and political corruption.

I guess you will come back and recited the same Bush administration poem of How evil Iran is they want to destroy America and Israel.

You know what, is OK, I already know your answer.

BTW Thanks dg

Originally posted by jsobecky
Regardless, what Semperfortis posted is factually true. Iran does not want to be part of the global community. They recently refused IAEA inspectors access to a site.

Iran has observed what happens to a country that is rich in natural resources, but is lacking a deterent to the corporate fascism that drives US military aggression. This is also factual. My advice to irans leaders is to beg, borrow or steal a nuclear weapons capabability as quickly as possible as this is their only hope for security.

Why doesnt the US government have a gripe with israel, india and pakistan among others having nuclear weapons, but its not ok for iran?

Originally posted by Muaddib
What is kind of interesting is that you forget the reason why that bomb was dropped, the United States didn't start that fight, but the United States finished it and made sure that there was no invasion in U.S. soil.

Why is it that you are not even mentioning that the Pacific fleet was pretty much completly destroyed by the Japanese with their surprise attack?, leaving that side of the United States open for ground invasion?....

Sounds like you're saying this is defense.

DEfend itself yes but the Iranian regime is making threats to attack and destroy Israel, among some other nations, that is aggression not "defense"....

OK, now I'm confused, isn't this the same definition but now it's aggression?

Originally posted by marg6043
Muaddib

See . . . Muaddib you are supporting the same propaganda that our present administration is using to open the roads to attack another nation in the name of They want to destroy Israel.

.... why are you hiding your head under the sand Marg?... Are you so afraid of terrorists that you have to blame the government of the U.S. and claim it is all propaganda because you can't accept the fact that there are regimes out there that don't give a hoot about other nations and wnat them destroyed?...

Are you claiming now that the United States owns AlJazeera and other middle eastern newspapers, that's without counting news sources from several other countries including Europe?.... If you claim so present facts to back your claims...

Originally posted by marg6043
Tell me Muaddib beside Iran being accused of supporting and financing terrorism . . .but you forget that other nations does the same and with nuclear capabilites too.

Pakistan (nuclear weapons), Saudi (they are our friends and oil partners) Egypt (they are our friends) yes . . . our nation realy knows how to chose its friends.

What nation Iran have invaded or wagged war in the middle east recently?

Humm...let's see...i guess you are going to claim they have not proivided any help to Hezbollah to attack Israel...I guess you are going to deny the fact that Russian made Katiuskas and other Russian rockets have found their way to Hezbollah militants through Iran and Syria....

Originally posted by marg6043
Or is only the right of Israel and US to invade and attack nations in that area because is for the Good of the world

Or just for the good of corporate agendas and political corruption..

I guess trying to defend the right of Israel for you is a "corporate agenda" and it is only done by "corrupt governments"...

Originally posted by marg6043
I guess you will come back and recited the same Bush administration poem of How evil Iran is they want to destroy America and Israel.

Are you denying that most of the world except Venezuela, Cuba and Syria, the rest of the world want to take Iran to the security council because of it's actions concerning the enrichment of Uranium?.....

Originally posted by marg6043
You know what, is OK, I already know your answer.

BTW Thanks dg

I know your anwsers too Marg, keep your head under the sand all you want, in the meanwhile the Iranian regime has made clear several times what they want to do.... you want to believe them even after knowing they lied for decades about their nuclear weapons programs?... Go ahead and believe them if you want... in the meanwhile most Israelis are probably not going to agree with you and let their lives play a game of chance whenever the regime of Iran wants to...

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Muaddib]

That is the problem between you and me, Muabbid you are the one that have your head in the political bush agenda sands I see reality for what it is . . .

I see the pros and the cons I hold no loyalties to corruption, and then I make my own decision without falling for our government propaganda.

And yes I believe that the US is part of the problems in the middle east.

And yes US used atomic bomb and then expended Years trying to justify why it did it.

The same that is now trying to justify why it invaded Iraq and now we most protect Israel from Iran.

Deny ignorance

Is not US nation's fault that the leaders we elect have agendas behind their backs and does agendas are not to stop terrorism but to keep going and to fulfill corporate agendas.

pity.

Originally posted by Muaddib
DEfend itself yes but the Iranian regime is making threats to attack and destroy Israel, among some other nations, that is aggression not "defense"....

Words... WORDS. FRee speech bro. Verbal threats mean NOTHING... We do it ALL THE TIME. HE can say WTF he wants to say and it is NOT an act of war.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Muaddib
DEfend itself yes but the Iranian regime is making threats to attack and destroy Israel, among some other nations, that is aggression not "defense"....

Words... WORDS. FRee speech bro. Verbal threats mean NOTHING... We do it ALL THE TIME. HE can say WTF he wants to say and it is NOT an act of war.

No, no... no, actually Slap Nuts, you're wrong, I'm sorry to point out:

1.) Iran does not have Freedom of Speech.

2.) Freedom of Speech in the U.S. does not include acts of incitement.

3.) Threatening to commit genocide is considered an act of incitement.

4.) The United States President (no matter how loathsome he may be) has never threatened genocide against any nation or people.

There's a huge difference between Freedom of Speech and threatening to commit genocide. It is also something not commonly done or tolerated in America.

I am challenging anyone to come up with a link that shows the EXACT translation into English the statement where Iran wanted to commit genocide or nuke israel. I am not speaking of vague phrasing because we could argue details of that all day. I want to see where it has been said. Everyone on here keeps saying that Iran says they are going to nuke Israel or commit genocide. WHERE can I find this???? The only thing I have found is peoples biased INTERPRETATIONS (forgive my spelling) of what was said, and those weren't even direct translations. I want a link. No BS, no assumptions, I want to see you prove it - if you can.

Originally posted by thelibra




3.) Threatening to commit genocide is considered an act of incitement.

A regime change and genocide are quite different.

4.) The United States President (no matter how loathsome he may be) has never threatened genocide against any nation or people.

Nope, but neither has Iran.

There's a huge difference between Freedom of Speech and threatening to commit genocide. It is also something not commonly done or tolerated in America.

Again..never happened.

If you want to hate Iran, hate them for legitimate factual reasons, not spun propaganda...I am sure there are enough real statements made by the regime that could be used to rally support for an attack on them.

[edit on 8/31/2006 by pstiffy]

Originally posted by pstiffy
If you want to hate Iran, hate them for legitimate factual reasons, not spun propaganda...I am sure there are enough real quotes made by Iran that could be used to rally support for an attack on them.
[edit on 8/31/2006 by pstiffy]

That is the problem the propaganda has gotten out of place and is over the roof.

Is not longer supporting and financing terrorism because . . . the are not the only ones in the middle east doing that . . . and many of the other country doing that are our friends.

Now to make the issue of attacking the evil regime of a mad man ( I will like for some one to show Iranian leader medical records) we have to swallow that they want the annihilation of Israel.

Now does Israel is going to let itself be annihilated?

Can somebody answer that one.

People can debate over and over and over but many do not want to use common sense when approaching the Issue as why is OK to go an take Iran off, I guess that the nuclear plants can not be used much because lack of US intelligence, we can no possibly do the same that we did in the Iraqi fiasco.

So yes new propaganda is now geared as to where the nuclear plants with possibly making of nuclear weapons may be.

Underground? so hey lets bomb the entire country and perhaps we may hit Jackpot some where.

Pleasssseeeee denied ignorance and help stop the propaganda.

Originally posted by marg6043
That is the problem between you and me, Muabbid you are the one that have your head in the political bush agenda sands I see reality for what it is . . .

The problem between you and me is that you prefer to believe dictators and claim anything posted as proof against people like the Iranian president and the Iranian regime, is an agenda made by the U.S. government... you say the same when discussing Chavez and pretty much every other dictator around the world...

i don't "have my head in the sands of president Bush' agendas"... i think pretty good by myself without any help, it is part of my job as an engineer... and there have been decisions made by the United States government that I have not agreed with, such as the Dubai deals...

Originally posted by marg6043
I see the pros and the cons I hold no loyalties to corruption, and then I make my own decision without falling for our government propaganda.

Marg, ever since i have known you, you had a negative image in everything about the United States government...and btw, i make my own decisions too...

Originally posted by marg6043
And yes I believe that the US is part of the problems in the middle east.

Really?.... then why did the Middle East have the same problems they have now back in the Middle Ages?.... The United States did not exist back then.

Originally posted by marg6043
And yes US used atomic bomb and then expended Years trying to justify why it did it.

They didn't have to spend years trying to justify the response against Japan's attack... The Japanese pretty much destroyed our Pacific fleet, leaving the west open for invasion. I wish it didn't happen, I wish that Japan would have never attacked the U.S., but it happened and the administration at the time thought the best way to stop an invasion, which was very possible since the U.S. military was attacked massively, was to drop the bombs.

Originally posted by marg6043
The same that is now trying to justify why it invaded Iraq and now we most protect Israel from Iran.

First of all, when has anyone in the administration said we are for certain going to attack Iran?.... Second of all, please don't try to simplify the situation in Iraq, it's insulting, and it is not part of the discussion of this thread.

Originally posted by marg6043
Deny ignorance

Marg, there are many things you and i don't see eye to eye, but one thing i have learnt from our communications is that you have always had an opinion against the United States government, and like some other people, everytime you are given evidence to refute your opinions, you claim it is all propaganda.

Perhaps you should heed your own advice and start denying ignorance... The United States does not own the world, and the government is not trying to own it... and yes there are a few governments and dictators who would like to see the destruction of the United States and other western countries, so they can be free to bring more chaos to the world.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Muaddib]