ceasefire over then?, page 3
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reply posted on 14-8-2006 @ 10:43 AM by Ezekiel
Originally posted by kickoutthejams
Dark I think you're asking for it there with the sovereign Britain remark - go easy on him Ezekiel! Aussies are fiercely proud of their independence.

However, Australia has taken a hard move to the right over recent years dare I say even downright belligerent in its attitude to immigration and the war on terror. Where does your senator stand on this?



Haha =) Thats ok, Im not terribly concerned with Australia being part of the Commonwealth (and therefore under the Royal family). I think that strong cultural and political relationships between the UK and Australia are very important =D

You are right that Aus has moved to the right in recent years. I think this is due to Australians being very proud of our way of life and being very keen to preserve it.

My senator (as well as the majority of the Howard Government) are very happy for people to migrate to Australia so long as they are willing to integrate with the Australian culture and to become productive members of our society. However when they show up with no identification and no way to prove who they are and what their intent is, the government makes sure they will not be a threat which can unfortunately take a very long time. While they are sympathetic to these people, and dont want them languishing in dentention centers for years, their first responsibility is to the Australian people who want to maintain the peaceful and tolerant society we have.

On terrorists Aussies are fairly clear. They are not welcome here and anywhere we can help out we will =D (with the exception of a few radical lefties who think everyone should just hold hands and sing kum-bah-yah)



reply posted on 14-8-2006 @ 10:56 AM by DarkUK
Originally posted by Ezekiel
Originally posted by kickoutthejams
Dark I think you're asking for it there with the sovereign Britain remark - go easy on him Ezekiel! Aussies are fiercely proud of their independence.

However, Australia has taken a hard move to the right over recent years dare I say even downright belligerent in its attitude to immigration and the war on terror. Where does your senator stand on this?



Haha =) Thats ok, Im not terribly concerned with Australia being part of the Commonwealth (and therefore under the Royal family). I think that strong cultural and political relationships between the UK and Australia are very important =D

You are right that Aus has moved to the right in recent years. I think this is due to Australians being very proud of our way of life and being very keen to preserve it.

My senator (as well as the majority of the Howard Government) are very happy for people to migrate to Australia so long as they are willing to integrate with the Australian culture and to become productive members of our society. However when they show up with no identification and no way to prove who they are and what their intent is, the government makes sure they will not be a threat which can unfortunately take a very long time. While they are sympathetic to these people, and dont want them languishing in dentention centers for years, their first responsibility is to the Australian people who want to maintain the peaceful and tolerant society we have.

On terrorists Aussies are fairly clear. They are not welcome here and anywhere we can help out we will =D (with the exception of a few radical lefties who think everyone should just hold hands and sing kum-bah-yah)



I think that the UK could learn something from out Australian brethren on that matter. I dont know if your aware of our policy on immigration, but basically it would appear we have none. Immigrants flood here in their thousands. Legally, illegally, it doesnt matter. There was a scam uncovered where illegals were being given National Insurance numbers (something you need to have to get a job, claim benefits such as unemployment payments, housing benefits etc.) by the job centres we have here. They are given housing, money, whatever they like. There was also a case of the Government overpaying thousands of people with benefits and when they realised what had happened they asked all ACTUAL british citizens to pay back what they had been overpayed, this equalled a lot of money in some cases. The immigrants who were overpayed were not only NOT asked to pay back the money, but were sent a letter of apology for being overpayed and were, as far as I know, allowed to keep the money.

Anyway I have gone wildly off topic here so I do apologise.


reply posted on 14-8-2006 @ 11:10 AM by Ezekiel

I think that the UK could learn something from out Australian brethren on that matter. I dont know if your aware of our policy on immigration, but basically it would appear we have none.


Australians are very aware of the problems in the UK from a lax immigration policy and I think that is part of the reason we are so tough on ours. We have a large population of British ex-pats, a lot of whom have found their way into the political parties, funnily enough mainly the conserative party.

Its not very nice of me to say, but John Howard has certainly learnt from some of the British Governments past mistakes and is making sure he stands tough on the immigration issue.


Anyway I have gone wildly off topic here so I do apologise.


hehe I went off on a tangent too.. Sorry for derailing the thread and please know that anything I say in here is all in the interest of good debate.

If it did come down to us Aussies fighting alongside Brits in WW3 Id gladly be there, though I would make sure there would be some interested debates along the way =D


not yet but just wanna add with a little bit of gratitude to Oz that their soldiers are some of the best and toughest hombres around!


Nearly missed that one! Yeah I have to agree with you there mate, our guys are pretty well trained and some of the reports that the Senator has had with regards to their operational capacity has been pretty impressive!

Not sure where your from, but the Brits have some good units as well (SAS, SBS) and I've heard that the USA's Navy seals and Rangers arent to be messed with =D

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ezekiel]


reply posted on 14-8-2006 @ 11:14 AM by DarkUK
Originally posted by Ezekiel

I think that the UK could learn something from out Australian brethren on that matter. I dont know if your aware of our policy on immigration, but basically it would appear we have none.


Australians are very aware of the problems in the UK from a lax immigration policy and I think that is part of the reason we are so tough on ours. We have a large population of British ex-pats, a lot of whom have found their way into the political parties, funnily enough mainly the conserative party.

Its not very nice of me to say, but John Howard has certainly learnt from some of the British Governments past mistakes and is making sure he stands tough on the immigration issue.


Anyway I have gone wildly off topic here so I do apologise.


hehe I went off on a tangent too.. Sorry for derailing the thread and please know that anything I say in here is all in the interest of good debate.

If it did come down to us Aussies fighting alongside Brits in WW3 Id gladly be there, though I would make sure there would be some interested debates along the way =D



Well maybe I will see you out there in the middle east ; )
I honestly hope not, conscription will be ugly, as will the war. This is not going to be a war in which I personally want to fight. There are higher agenda's at play here, and they are agenda's that do not have the peoples interests at heart.

I dont think that this is about oil anymore, its gone past that now. There is something else about this all that we are not seeing...



reply posted on 14-8-2006 @ 09:47 PM by mojo4sale
There are 19 organisations currently listed by the australian govt here

Hizballah External Security Organisation is listed but were only reinstated in 2005 after being off the list for a couple of years, their political arm is not listed.


reply posted on 14-8-2006 @ 10:31 PM by stumason
Originally posted by Ezekiel
Sorry mate I know for a fact that Australia and Britain considers them a terrorist organisation as well. Not 100% sure that France does, thats the only one I could be mistaken on.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ezekiel]

Ok have checked it out, the European Union while not listing Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation, does have this position:

"The EU Parliament passed a resolution recognizing "clear evidence" of "terrorist activities by Hezbollah". [162].

"The EU Council does list Hezbollah's senior intelligence officer, Imad Mugniyah, as a terrorist".

en.wikipedia.org...

So the only one I was mistaken about was France. What was that about BS and rhetoric?

[edit on 14-8-2006 by Ezekiel]


Really, Britain do as well? Thats news to me, because last time I checked, we did not. Can you provide me with a link or something?

As to these "terrorist" activities they apparently engage in, the only attacks that hezbollah take part in are attacks on IDF positions inside of Lebanon during the late 80's, early 90's. If your alluding that they did the Marine Barracks bomb or the French bomb, then these were done before Hezbollahs foundation in 1985.

The current rocket attacks, whilst deliberately targetting population centres which is to be abhored, are not terrorist attacks. One could argue that it was for economic reasons, as the damge to israels economy is said to be over $1 Billion. If Hezbollahs attacks are to be considered terrorist, then so should Israels indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure, which has been called a War crime by the UNHCR.


reply posted on 14-8-2006 @ 10:48 PM by Ezekiel
[
Really, Britain do as well? Thats news to me, because last time I checked, we did not. Can you provide me with a link or something?


The info is in that same link I posted about the EU.


The current rocket attacks, whilst deliberately targetting population centres which is to be abhored, are not terrorist attacks. One could argue that it was for economic reasons, as the damge to israels economy is said to be over $1 Billion.


You cant be serious. Rocket attacks aimed at civilians NOT terrorist attacks? Economic reasons???? So by your logic the WTC 9/11 attacks were not terrorist attacks but purely economical as well then, since it caused great financial loss to America. Thats a dangerous line your toeing there mate.


If Hezbollahs attacks are to be considered terrorist, then so should Israels indiscriminate bombing of civilian infrastructure, which has been called a War crime by the UNHCR.


I dont know how many times its been said but Ill say it anyway.

Israel is TARGETING KEY HEZBOLLAH TARGETS. They are not bombing indiscriminately. Read the article written by a the Lebanese journalist that I posted, where he points out that Israel have been very precise and careful with their strikes.

THey are not just shooting rockets recklessly like Hezbollah, they are attacking targets that are either: Hezbollah missile launching sites, or Hezbollah strongholds.

While the accidental killings of civilians is abhorrent and great tragedy, it is not terrorism and it is not intentional.

As far as the UN / UNHCR goes, they are a worthless organisation that cant even organise a peacekeeping force to get in there and sorth this mess out.
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