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The Top Four Arguements Against The 911 Conspiracy

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posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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Here are the more relevant ones:


Source:
english.people.com.cn...

-Matthys Levy, Structural Engineer and Co Author of “Why Buildings Fall Down”

"If you've seen many of the managed demolitions where they implode a building and they cause it to essentially to fall vertically because they cause all of the vertical columns to fail simultaneously, that's exactly what it looked like and that's what happened."
Video: www.freepressinternational.com...


More expert opinions:


-Judy Wood, PhD (Civil Engineering / Mechanical Engineering)
Mechanical Engineering Professor at Clemson University

“The Case for Controlled Demolition”
www.911blogger.com...


-Jerry Russell, PhD (MS in Engineering)

“Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC”
www.attackonamerica.net...


-Frank Demartini - Former Harvard Engineering Professor
Manager, WTC Construction And Project Management
(Died at the WTC on 9-11)

January 25, 2001: "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jet airliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door,... this intense grid,... and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting."
www.prisonplanet.com...


-Kevin Ryan – Former Site Manager from Underwriters Labs (UL)
en.wikipedia.org...

On November 11, 2004, Ryan wrote Dr Frank Gayle (NIST), causing his firing from UL.

Excerpt: “This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans. Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company.”
www.scoop.co.nz...

Academic Paper: “Propping Up the War on Terror: Lies about the WTC by NIST and Underwriters Laboratories”
(Scheduled for Publication in “9/11 and the American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out”, Interlink Books, 2006)
http:// www.scholarsfor911truth.org...

March 15, 2006 Lecture: "A 9/11 Whistleblower Examines the Official Conspiracy Theory"
Monroe County Public Library, Bloomington, IN
One Hour Lecture MP3 34MB: news.wfhb.org...




posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 02:17 PM
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I doubt the governments story on the pentagon attack by the refusal of releasing the camera footage from all of the locations filming the attack. If they wanted to squash the rumors then release them. It would show what they say happened, I understand that they dont want to offend the victims families, but what they have done is showing us the American people are not smart enough to understand. I know the WTC attack is a hard nut to crack, but the Pentagon attack should be easy to show to gain support of the people. If they did show the footage maybe more people would support the gov. I guess they dont care about support. The President doesnt even care that his approval rating is near the bottom. He probaly says well I got my second term, and I am almost out. Let the next President deal with it.
I was at the WTC 10 minutes after the north tower went down. I was there for the first 72 Hours trying to help. I spent 3 months there. I am now sick with cardiomyopathy from my exposures to the dust.

I will tell my tale later when I have a little more time.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 04:55 PM
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People still use Kevin Ryan as a source? His claims and statements were shown to be complete hogwash long ago. In addition, the claim that the WTC was designed to withstand the impact of a jetliner, once again I refer you to the people who designed the Titanic to be unsinkable. Then the statements about controlled demolition...yes, they sever the vertical supports in a CD, of course in a CD the building collapses from the bottom up. Neither of the towers did this. They BOTH collapsed from the point of impact down.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
People still use Kevin Ryan as a source? His claims and statements were shown to be complete hogwash long ago. In addition, the claim that the WTC was designed to withstand the impact of a jetliner, once again I refer you to the people who designed the Titanic to be unsinkable. Then the statements about controlled demolition...yes, they sever the vertical supports in a CD, of course in a CD the building collapses from the bottom up. Neither of the towers did this. They BOTH collapsed from the point of impact down.


Now if you use your problem solving mind and take into consideration the numorous, civilians, fireman, and police men who claimed to have heard explosion nearer ground level before the buildings came down, it starts to make more sense. Does it not?

AAC



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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Furthermore, I would like an explanation to why building 7 came down as a result of fire cause by collapse.


Building 7 was across the street with building 6 in the way (which stayed erect). I tried to post a picture of the aerial but I don't know how it seems. AAC

[edit on 13-8-2006 by AnAbsoluteCreation]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
People still use Kevin Ryan as a source?



And Judy Wood.


If she knew what she was talking about, maybe they wouldn't have denied her tenure,



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 05:13 PM
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Absolute, you have fallen victim to the distortions. The "quotes" of the firefighters are "MISquotes" If you read the whole quotes (and interviews) you will change your mind on that issue

As for WTC 7, once again, if you look up what the firefighters had to say, you will see that they ALL mention the horrific damage that WTC 7 suffered when one of the towers collapsed (20 story hole gouged out of it, not to mention the fires on the majority of the floors on that side) The NYFD decided early on, that after the collapse of the towers, that they were not going to risk sending teams into WTC 7 to fight the fires based on the damage they could see.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Absolute, you have fallen victim to the distortions. The "quotes" of the firefighters are "MISquotes" If you read the whole quotes (and interviews) you will change your mind on that issue


How can I misinterpret a building engineer say, after the plane hit, I hear a series of explosions that I thoght was coming from the basement. I thought it sounded like a boiler blowing up. This testimony along with OTHERS that I have not mis understood, tell of a different story. Sounds like these explsions could have weakened the base structure, allowing it to fall.



As for WTC 7, once again, if you look up what the firefighters had to say, you will see that they ALL mention the horrific damage that WTC 7 suffered when one of the towers collapsed (20 story hole gouged out of it, not to mention the fires on the majority of the floors on that side) The NYFD decided early on, that after the collapse of the towers, that they were not going to risk sending teams into WTC 7 to fight the fires based on the damage they could see.


Building 6 was in between the WTC and building 7 (across the street).

AAC



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 06:27 PM
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He has not fallen victim to "misquoting".

There were numerous first responders who placed accounts of explosions and damage in lower level floors of the towers in their official reports.

In a typed memorandum from Alan T. DeVona, dated November 12, 2001:



Sir, in response to your request for my actions during the WTC terrorist attack on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, in which I was the Patrol Sergeant; the following is the most accurate account I can give from my memory and tapes of the radio transmissions. Please note that the given times on this chrono log, were not taken from a Dictaphone machine, but instead timed as the tapes ran simultaneously with a clock. Therefore, the times may vary slightly as compared to the Dictaphone machine.

0853 4-1 radios WTC Police Desk reporting an explosion on the lower level.

0853 WTC Police Desk replies there was an explosion on the upper floors.

0853 WTC Police Desk radios Sgt. DeVona and requests permission to release previous arrestee, permission granted by Sgt. DeVona.

0856 PO Davis reports that PATH trains are still coming into WTC.

0857 WTC Police Desk reports to PO Davis that PATH trains have been suspended into the WTC. PO Houston and PO Wholey start to evacuate PATH station.

0857 WTC requests an available unit to check Turner Construction, 1 WTC B-4 Level, report of broken water pipes.

0901 PO Houston, PO Davis and PO Wholey start to evacuate the B-4 Level, 1 WTC.

0904 PO Lim/K-9 radios to WTC Police Desk that he is en route to 1 WTC where there is a report of people trapped on the 13th floor.

0911 PO Houston, PO Davis and PO Wholey are clear of the B-4 level. PO Houston asks, "Where do you need us?" WTC Police Desk responds the 90th and the 22nd floors.

0912 PO Lim/K-9 reports jet fuel burning on the 51st floor, 1 WTC.

0912 WTC Police Desk radios PO Lim/K-9 asking if that is the smell of jet fuel. PO Lim/K-9 replies, "That's burning jet fuel." WTC Police Desk radios to Ladder 10, did you copy last. No response given.

0912 PO Houston, PO Davis and PO Wholey advise Police Desk of trapped ABM workers on the B-4 level, as per a report from an ABM worker. The desk acknowledges.

0919 PO Houston, PO Davis and PO Wholey report that all of PATH station is clear and (4) four PATH - ESU Officers remain there.

0933 PO Keane reporting from Stairway-C on the 66th floor, 1 WTC states that she heard another explosiion.

0936 Unidentified unit radiios that the stage on the PLaza is on fire.

0943 PO Keane reports that the stage on the Plaza is on fire.



Typed memorandum by Sgt. Thomas Marten Jr, #125, dated April 6, 2002:



We all entered the lobby of Building One safely through a broken out window.

The academy staff was helping and assisting people get out of the buil concourse level where there was deep pools of water all around us and the eletrical systems and alarm systems were going on and off all over the place.

Then I heard a tremendous explosion and I looked up and saw Building Two snap at the top and collapse into it self.

About this time we heard another tremendous explosion and saw Building One collapse.


Hand-written memorandum by P.O. Sue Keane #826, dated 3/14/02 [NOTE: In the following portion of her account, PO Keane is in the Mezzanine area of WTC 1]:



At some point we could hear another plane then a hit, then what sounded like explosions one after another or like a train coming fast, at this point the explosion was loud the are went completely black. I was helping an elderly man at this time and I covered him w/ my body when all of a sudden all the air seemed to get sucked out of your lungs then seconds later a wind that knocked us over came back at us with debris and I don't know what else. Then everything went quiet. The man with me and a NYPD Capt. tried to grab me to leave, but I could see that the guys from the bridge were trapped in the stairwell, something was blocking the door. The guys were OK and things started to clear and we went up to about the sixth floor to see if people were still coming which they were. We continued to help people down the stairwell, I believe at this point we heard Tower Two was hit and so was the Pentagon.

Massive amounts of debris, concrete dust and bodies or parts were more frequent at this point. Then there was an eerie silence and it was like yo knew something was going to happen, there just seemed to be one explosion after another. I was separated from the guys from the bridge (GWB) by another explosion, massive again sucking the air out of your lungs and then just a wind more intense this time with larger pieces of debris flying.



Hand-written memorandum by P.O. J. Hampden #803, dated 11/10/01:



Fred Maley and I including other P.A. officers walked west on Barclay Street then south on West Street and stopped just north of VIP Drive WTC Building #1. There was a body on the ground just prior to entering the building. The glass on the first level was shattered and piled around the perimeter of the building...The I remember asking the battalion chief what the loud noise was (a bang) every few minutes and he stated that it was the people that were jumping out of the windows from the upper floors...

...At the area near the top of the Path escalators I ran into Inspector Norris and I advised him of the situation then he advised me to follow him to the WTC Police desk. I believe we were at the desk approximately 5-10 minutes when the whole place seemed to cave in. You could not see very well my eyes were burning and I had trouble breathing, I thought we were buried alive! I immediately grabbed a scott air pack that was lying next to the police desk and threw it on only to realize that it was missing the mask making it useless. I then had to breathe large amounts of dust choking debris while attempting to evacuate trapped civilians out of the building...We got the people to hold hands and someone with a flashlight led the group out of the building through Borders Books store window...While entering the building I fell down what I believe was the escalators injuring my shoulder, and back tripping over unknown debris.


Just in case you think he was talking about the collapse of WTC 2, he wasn't. He continues later in the report to say:



I later proceeded down Church street and met up with an 85-Frank from Kennedy and together we were washing out peoples eyes and directing them towards firemen and first aid personal as they came out of the cloud with water we obtained off of a fire truck. Then together we did a two-man carry on a very large man who stated that he was having a heart attack, towards an ambulance. During this time we heard a tremulous roar as building #2 started falling down and we ran for our lives...


Typed report by Police Fire Marshal Shield 1483, undated:



I responded...via a police convoy to the World Trade Center. Upon our arrival, at the staging area our rescue team prepared to enter the facility.

As we prepared to locate our equipment, I saw and heard a loud thunder coming in front of us. It was a connecting bridge. Smoke and debris covered the entire area.

As I recall, running for cover the connector collapsed, I sustained significant inhalation of smoke and debris. After running several blocks choking I entered an ambulance where I washed off the debris and was given oxygen.

While resting inside the ambulance I saw the 1st tower collapse and the second.


Typed memorandum by PO Middleton #1207, dated December 9th, 2001:



As I continued to wave them back periodically you would hear a loud boom go off at the top of tower one. After approximately 15 minutes suddenly there was another loud boom at the upper floors, then there was a series of smaller explosions which appeared to go completely around the building at the upper floors. And another loud earth shattering blast with a large fire ball which blew out more debris and at that point everyone began to run north on West Broad street. As the building began to crumble.


Typed memorandum by Det. Thomas M. Inman, dated January 22, 2002:



As a roll call was being taken of the responding Detectives, Tower #2 began to collapse. This occurred after a secondary explosion on the west side of the tower that appeared to take place in the area of the high 60's. The area above the secondary explosion actually leaned to the west and then the collapse took place.


Typed memorandum by PO William Connors #953, dated 04/10/2002:



We approached the complex from the north side via Barclay Street. Building 7 was burning and we spoke with a FDNY Chief who had his men holed up in the US Post Office building. He informed us that the fires in Building 7 were uncontrollable and that its collapse was imminent. We observed several PAPD vehicles in the area. ESU 5308 was at the bottom of the Barclay Street ramp just short of the inner doors under building 7. A truck was stopped in front of 5308 with its' hazard lights flashing. There were no fires inside the loading dock at this time but we could hear explosions deep inside.


Typed memorandum by Detective Salvatore Piro, dated March 13, 2002:



At that point, I heard a low sounding boom and the smoke intensified. There was more debris falling and as I hard a big roar, I saw Tower One coming down.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Furthermore, I would like an explanation to why building 7 came down as a result of fire cause by collapse.

Building 7 was across the street with building 6 in the way (which stayed erect). I tried to post a picture of the aerial but I don't know how it seems. AAC


Well here is another picture for ya, On WTC 7! Sure looks torn up to ME!
Look up how tall WTC 6,and 7 were! That might help you understand that question.


This photo was taken a couple of hours before number 7 WTC collapsed. Two water mains that supplied lower Manhattan were damaged leaving little or no water pressure in the area. Hours before the collapse of 7 WTC, Fire Chiefs at the scene advised all units to stay away from 7 WTC because of the collapse dangers. They had no water to fight the blaze and the building was damaged from the collapse of the North Tower. You can see a big hole on the lower floors in this photo. I believe that the Chiefs made the right decision in letting 7 WTC burn.


www.debunking911.com...
This shows how much destruction had already been wrought on 7. Well before it collapsed.


PS Did you read Gravy"s Debunk of LC????? You aked for it!

[edit on 13-8-2006 by Duhh]



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 06:45 PM
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I think I'm misunderstood, I am not debating the destruction of tower 7. I am however debating how it's destruction was created, when the building is across the street from WTC and another building (that wasn't damaged critically) was in between the two.

Remember I mentioned other explosion from testimonials.

AAC



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 06:56 PM
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I've read about half of the replies in this thread.


If you truely believe, that there is no conclusive evidence, then you truely have not looked into the 9/11 theories.



posted on Aug, 13 2006 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by Duhh
You might wanna read before posting next time.


Did you have a chance to read my post?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm wondering if you simply missed it, didn't have a chance to read it, or are ignoring it.



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

How can I misinterpret a building engineer say, after the plane hit, I hear a series of explosions that I thoght was coming from the basement. I thought it sounded like a boiler blowing up.


Can you post a link to the source of this statement?



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 10:40 AM
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I wonder sometimes HowardRoark, you're such a straight cut anti-conspiracy personality on this board, yet this board is on a favorable skeptical approach to everything, and is fueled by conspiracy, yet you seem to stay around.

What brought you to ATS in the first place? And what keeps you here?



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 11:01 AM
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Member personalities are irrelevant to the issue. Please pursue any such queries or discussion via U2U.



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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I got a question for those who believe the "official story":


Please tell me which plane did Bush claim to see from his speech in California two months afterwards. Keep in mind that there were no "media footage" of the first plane crash. Bush also claim that he was informed about the second plane. So please explain to me with details and facts WHICH plane did Bush claim to see crash.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall
Here are the more relevant ones:


Source:
english.people.com.cn...

-Matthys Levy, Structural Engineer and Co Author of “Why Buildings Fall Down”

"If you've seen many of the managed demolitions where they implode a building and they cause it to essentially to fall vertically because they cause all of the vertical columns to fail simultaneously, that's exactly what it looked like and that's what happened."
Video: www.freepressinternational.com...


More expert opinions:


-Judy Wood, PhD (Civil Engineering / Mechanical Engineering)
Mechanical Engineering Professor at Clemson University

“The Case for Controlled Demolition”
www.911blogger.com...


-Jerry Russell, PhD (MS in Engineering)

“Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC”
www.attackonamerica.net...


-Frank Demartini - Former Harvard Engineering Professor
Manager, WTC Construction And Project Management
(Died at the WTC on 9-11)

January 25, 2001: "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jet airliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door,... this intense grid,... and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting."
www.prisonplanet.com...


-Kevin Ryan – Former Site Manager from Underwriters Labs (UL)
en.wikipedia.org...

On November 11, 2004, Ryan wrote Dr Frank Gayle (NIST), causing his firing from UL.

Excerpt: “This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans. Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around 250C suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company.”
www.scoop.co.nz...

Academic Paper: “Propping Up the War on Terror: Lies about the WTC by NIST and Underwriters Laboratories”
(Scheduled for Publication in “9/11 and the American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out”, Interlink Books, 2006)
http:// www.scholarsfor911truth.org...

March 15, 2006 Lecture: "A 9/11 Whistleblower Examines the Official Conspiracy Theory"
Monroe County Public Library, Bloomington, IN
One Hour Lecture MP3 34MB: news.wfhb.org...


Don't forget yourself Valhall. You could probably include myself also.



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

How can I misinterpret a building engineer say, after the plane hit, I hear a series of explosions that I thoght was coming from the basement. I thought it sounded like a boiler blowing up.


Can you post a link to the source of this statement?



This is the first one I saw... There are more if you need. AAC

www.rense.com...



posted on Aug, 14 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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Well, I consider you added to the list because of your structural engineering background.

I'm just an engineer with a penchant for arguing.


I'm not allowed to run the train
The whistle I can't blow
I'm not the one who designates
How far the train will go
I'm not allowed to blow the steam
Or even ring the bell
But let the damn thing jump the track
And see who catches hell.


kind of like that.



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