Photo evidence of George Herbert Walker Bush's Illuminati roots, page 5
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reply posted on 11-8-2006 @ 01:00 PM by MissMarple
@Masonic Light:

Oh, well according to your logic the famous overdimensional arc of St. Louis/Missouri can't be a masonic symbol because it doesn't fit into a masonic lodge.



But it is a fact that the arc is a freemasonic symbol!!!

Okay, let's stop our dialogue here and sum up that you can't convince me and I can't convince you!
This is a politically correct result which offends nobody.


reply posted on 11-8-2006 @ 02:33 PM by Peyres
Originally posted by MissMarple
@Peyres:

Originally posted by Peyres
Its all very interesting, I'll admit that. History has taught us that aristocratic families do strive to keep the bloodline running, and some do beleive they are the rightful rulers (see one nation conservatism and toryism in the UK for example).


Yes, the "divine right to rule"...This reminds me of the Hollywood movie "The Da Vinci Code"- a Rosicrucian propaganda film made to persuade the average cinemagoer or movie audience that Saint Mary Magdalene and Jesus Christ had a child (daughter) and that from this divine offspring originated all the European royal dynasties. I think this story is nothing but a legend or myth. The plain truth is (in my mind's eye) that the kings and queens never had this dubious "divine aura". It was just attributed to them by the church in order to lift them off from the ordinary people and in order to justify their (unfair) privileges and (stolen) fortunes. Actually the early stone-aged ancestores of the kings and queens were much more ruthless, brutal, criminal and meaner than the rest of the population and thanks to this unbelievable cruelty they came to power. "Divine right to rule"? Nothing could be further from the truth.


But whether its actually a plot, or a devious strategy to railworld the world towards a NWO, is another matter. Even your average asian or jewish family in North-West london might try and choose suitable candidates for family marriges, they might not be particularly wealthy or influential, but there is a suitable amount of respect for honour, and a vital importance on keeping the family stable. Many religions teach their followers to marry fellow christians for example, this doesn't mean to OUTLAW it, but it to be a more suitable scenario, shared ideals, happier kids etc


Dear Peyres, you still seem to have doubts about the existence of the NWO. Did you know that there is a "NWO forum" held at St. George House/Windsor Castle? It's a residence of Queen Elizabeth II and the headquarter of the "Order of the Garter":

webpro.touchslough.com...



I can think of one family member on my dad side that was a freemason, however I think he was only a 3rd Degree, low ranking yada yada. There is great potential for futher members of the family greater down the line. Whilst Masonry is far more open now than it ever was, you would of been hard pressed to find peasants or the working class of today within high levels of masonary (you still need refrences today). Research of masonic lodge locations in England show them to be in well-to-do areas, the lodges are often elloborate and paid for by donations of the members.


You should keep in mind that the most important and influential lodge of England is:

www.ugle.org.uk..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> www.ugle.org.uk...

Their activities are worth to be scrutinized.


Many of the leaders who feel they have a right to rule, because of their family ties, will say so because they believe they have the experience and knowledge to do so (bush isnt that intelligent, lol) it is clear to see that aristocrats almost exclusively have high levels of educational acheivment...


They are terribly arrogant and believe in their superiority towards the average citizen. Actually they were simply fortuned of having been born with a golden spoon in their mouth.That's all!



[edit on 10-8-2006 by MissMarple]


I don't believe that simply throwing money at a child will lead to them acheiving academically. There has to be a family atmposhere, and rules set in place, and kids that actually want to learn, and respect knowledge and educational attainment.


reply posted on 11-8-2006 @ 04:13 PM by MissMarple
@Masonic Light:

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Who told you the St. Louis Arc was a Masonic symbol? I've never even heard anyone suggest that before!

No, the St. Louis Arc is not a Masonic symbol. I am curious, though, as to what references you're using, and where you're getting your information. Wherever it's from, I assure you they don't know squat about Masonic symbolism!


Voila, here it is (and it makes a pretty convincing impression):

www.startiming.net...

As for finding a common ground on which to base our discussion: we might come to the agreement that not all freemasons are bad and not all of them have good intentions. That some of them work pointedly or unconsciously for the NWO whereas others don't . And that , apart from the freemasons, there are many other secret society networks. To one of them belongs the actual president in office and his family& friends.



[edit on 11-8-2006 by MissMarple]

[edit on 11-8-2006 by MissMarple]



reply posted on 12-8-2006 @ 08:15 AM by MissMarple
@ConspiracyNut23:
The St. Louis Gateway Arch stands on the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial. Thomas Jefferson was SUPPOSEDLY a MASONIC president (see link above). IMHO the Arch must represent the Royal Arch Degree of Freemasonry.

www.pagrandlodge.org...

I've found another interesting piece of information (source: see second link above):
The St. Louis Arch was a tough sell to Congress and was only approved after Harry Truman, a 33° FREEMASON and former Missouri senator, became President and Missouri Representative Clarence Cannon became chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.

www.pagrandlodge.org...

www.nps.gov...

ConspiracyNut23, you've wrote:


The author’s supposed links to masonry are weak and I’m not convinced the arch has anything to do with Masonic astrology.


Oh my god...the author quotes from Waite's New Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry. If this is a weak link- then WHAT must be a strong link!?

To sum it up: In my opinion the Arch of St. Louis must be a MASONIC monument because:

-the masonic logo consists of a compass and a an angle. The compass can also be regarded as an arch. Consequently the arch in general is an important symbol in freemasonry

-in the masonic online shops you can find many masonic regalia and accessoires with arches

-there is a masonic title called "royal arch mason"

-the Arch of St. Louis stands on Jefferson's memorial whereby Jefferson was identified as a MASON until recently

-the Arch of St. Louis was only accepted after the intervention of a MASON (Truman)


Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
I personally believe that Freemasonry is a great red herring. Conspiracy researchers looking into the NWO should study its earlier role in history, (spread of the British empire, the commonwealth) but I doubt that it is used today by the elite as a ruling apparatus.

They are definitely bad masons out there, the P2 lodge was real indeed. However, generally today the true evils are committed within the confine of corporate boardrooms, not Masonic Lodges.


Regrettably I can't share your opinion. A large part of the elite that is to say the American military- industrial complex is made up by 33rd freemasons. Numerous members of the director's board or management board of businness companies/corporations, NGOs or governmental institutions are 33rd freemasons. American presidents who are freemasons and run enterprises encounter no clash of interests because they know that they've sworn an oath to serve not the country but the brethren ("blood brotherhood until death"). By the way: in Europe the dual role of president (chancellor) AND businessman simultaneously is not legitimate. Anyway these high-level masons in key positions in the military, governmental, cultural, economic, educational fields are very influential, corrupt (but not in regard to their brethren) and in dispose of power. If they are enthusiastic about the idea of a "one world government" they are ready to work hard for it. And their work and network is effective, you bet!!! And last, but not least, there are many pictures on the internet where key players and world leaders pose with Billy Graham and Fred Kleinknecht, two important 33rd masons.

As far as I know the p2 lodge and "opus dei" are the military arms of the vatican aka Rosicrucian. They are just one of many secret societies working for the NWO. The only problem these groups have is : who will rule in the new world order?


reply posted on 12-8-2006 @ 09:58 AM by ConspiracyNut23
Here’s the Royal Arch rituals (York Rite) This is Duncan’s version, and I’ve recently learned that I can't rely on it for modern rituals. However it should give you an idea. (I'm actually interested in the late 18th masonic ritual if anyone could point me in the right direction, that'd be awesome.)

There's also a Royal Arch of Solomon degree in the Scottish Rite.

Originally posted by MissMarple
I've found another interesting piece of information (source: see second link above):
The St. Louis Arch was a tough sell to Congress and was only approved after Harry Truman, a 33° FREEMASON…

Does that mean that everything Truman did was Masonic?


[edit on 12/8/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

[edit on 12/8/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

[edit on 12/8/06 by ConspiracyNut23]


reply posted on 12-8-2006 @ 10:56 AM by ConspiracyNut23
Originally posted by MissMarple
Oh my god...the author quotes from Waite's New Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry. If this is a weak link- then WHAT must be a strong link!?

Yes, the architect was influences by astrology. However, Astrology is far more popular that masonry. Why do you assume he's been exposed to the Mason’s astrology?

Althought, I’ve never heard the term catenary curve before. Is that term widely used in architecture? (Waite uses it specifically)

This is interesting..


However it’s from Ovason's Secret Architecture, which is not unknown in the anti-Masonic world. The guy sees masons everywhere!

A large part of the elite that is to say the American military- industrial complex is made up by 33rd freemasons. Numerous members of the director's board or management board of businness companies/corporations, NGOs or governmental institutions are 33rd freemasons.

A list of names would be great. People who are still alive and influential today!. (Please don't post names from the CFR, tri-lats ar Buiderburgers, those are not masonic orders.)


[edit on 12/8/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

[edit on 12/8/06 by ConspiracyNut23]
MissMarple, you’ll love this:

However Thomas Jefferson is usually credited with the English word 'catenary'

source: en.wikipedia.org...

If only we knew if he was in fact, a mason.


[edit on 12/8/06 by ConspiracyNut23]


reply posted on 12-8-2006 @ 04:42 PM by MissMarple
aEdelweiss Pirate:

Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate

Is entirely wrong along with the rest of your drivel. Watch Dave Von Kliest's 9-11 film 'In Plane Sight'.

At the very end of the film Bush senior reaches over (with Laura inbetween) and grasps Bush W's hand and gives him what is clearly a Masonic handshake.


Attention! You've got to be very careful with Dave von Kleist and his statements! Together with Joyce Riley he runs the radio show "The Power Hour". According to Linda Kennedy, ex-employee of von Kleist and Riley, they seem to be disinformation agents: Among the most disturbing revelations is Riley's involvement with the Southern Poverty Law Center, a notorious front organization with close links to the ADL and FBI. There is also a very troubling link between Riley and Dr. Garth Nicholson, a key figure in secret US biowarfare programs. Kennedy also alleges that Riley and von Kleist have had direct contacts with FBI and Military Intelligence. Her take on In Plane Site is that is part of a strategy the pair have come up with of using 9/11 as a distraction and fig leaf for their ongoing exposure.

In my opinion Kennedy seems more credible than von Kleist and Riley. Here's a picture of Baron Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist (maybe Dave's father, uncle or relative whatsoever, a military and a member of the Johannite order) shaking hands (maybe a masonic grip?) with one of two scoundrels/villains/criminals, namely Donald Rumsfeld and Henry Kissinger. It's conspicuous that all of them are bearing German surnames. They must be of the same ilk as the Bushes. It's a safe bet that they are Nazis and strong NWO supporters.

www.defenselink.mil...





[edit on 12-8-2006 by MissMarple]
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