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Originally posted by MissMarple
IMHO the simplest obvious reason of a person for becoming a mason is getting integrated in a profitable network and enhancing one's personal contacts. This is the main motivation. Therefore it's not surprising that many business people/future politicians or doctors/lawyers in need of clients get into masonry. It's all about sticking together and working hand in glove against non-masons. This is the reason why masonic companies & facilities prosper growing bigger and bigger whilst non-masonic business enterprises are bound to die. It's not always because of management failure. As far as the placing of an lucrative order or a job offering is concerned the masonic membership comes into play...
In other words I'm trying to say that many members of masonry, already at the lower levels, are striving for power. So a great part of the members keep on climbing up the masonic degree ladder. But only a few selected can reach the top. Maybe the Scottish or York Rites are not mandatory but
(inofficially) they are. I think only the 33rd degree masons come into consideration for higher positions at all. And only they are accepted and higly esteemed by the others 33rd's.
Originally posted by MissMarple
It doesn't bother me that S&B is not a masonic order for they seem to have several things in common. Both appear to have Egyptian roots, a few similar symbols and probably the dogma that the bearer of the highest degress or the top are "god-like beings" in the sense that they are in control of everything. They want people to believe that they are as powerful as deities, that they are "supermen".
Originally posted by MissMarple
It's clear that NORMALLY you cannot become a 33rd degree mason in the twinkling of an eye (unless you've got the right connections).
Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Originally posted by MissMarple
It's clear that NORMALLY you cannot become a 33rd degree mason in the twinkling of an eye (unless you've got the right connections).
Perhaps 33rd degree masons are created or engineered.
Originally posted by MissMarple
Maybe you've heard of or you've read about the aristocratic roots of the Bush family. Now I would like to show you that this SEEMS TO BE true. Please point out every possible mistake in my train of thoughts.
(snip)
I would be glad if someone could prove me wrong.
Originally posted by MissMarple
There are undeniable affiliations between the chivalric/knights military orders and the freemasons. For instance former US president Dwight David Eisenhower was both a mason and a member of the Order of the Elephant. So it's not out of question that Queen Beatrix is a mason.
In 2005 he and his wife (that is to say their TAX-FREE Bill and Linda Gates foundation) were the largest international donors to the "Rite Care Childhood Language Clinic" in Elk River/Minnesota run by Carl Nelson 33rd (Scottish Rite) and his wife.
I think it's very naive to believe that the memberships of ALL members of freemasonry are recorded!!! Many members wish to remain incognito until death.
For instance, it's an ridiculously easy task for the Rockefellers and Rothschilds let alone Queen Elizabeth II or Prince Charles ("The Prince of Wales' International Business Leaders Forum" (1990)) or the Duke of Kent to conceal their (potential) membership. Or the other way round: It's no problem for the directors of leading multinational companies to hide their masonic connections.
Originally posted by EdenKaia
Guess and prod all you'd like, but dates and chronology don't lie.
Originally posted by MissMarple
On the surface that slogan sounds good. But, in reality, a list of dates make up a chronology and chronologies are compiled by PERSONS working for other PERSONS who are in pursuit of certain goals . These objectives might be morally right or wrong... You might think that "facts speak for themselves" without keeping in mind that so-called facts could be manipulated. Have you ever heard of a famous phrase roughly saying that history has always been written by the winners or rulers?
Originally posted by EdenKaia
I love all these references to the Bavarian Illuminati and the all seeing eye. You wont find any references connecting the two. The Bavarian Illuminati never used the symbol.
In 1782 the Eye of Providence was adopted as part of the symbolism on the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States. The Eye was introduced by the original design committee of 1776, and is thought to be the suggestion of the artistic consultant, Pierre Eugene du Simitiere.
On the seal, the Eye is surrounded by the words Annuit Cœptis, meaning "It [the Eye of Providence] is favorable to our undertakings"...
The United States' seal has never been a Masonic or Illuminati symbol. Its design was submitted by Pierre Du Simitiere to the committee of Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams. Of the four, only Franklin was a Freemason, but his ideas for design were not accepted by the committee. The all-seeing eye was a classical symbol of the time, but the eye atop a pyramid seems to be an invention of Du Simitiere, and approved by the committee. Very little reliable evidence can be found to support that Weishaupt's group survived into the 19th Century, or that the eye of horus was ever a symbol of their order. However, several groups have used the infamy of the Illuminati since to found their own rites, claiming to be the Illuminati, including the Ordo Illuminatorum, Die Alten Erleuchteten Seher Bayerns, The Illuminati Order, and others.
The eye within a triangle to represent God appears throughout the Renaissance, long before speculative Freemasonry arrived on the scene. The triangle being three-sided represents the Christian belief in the Trinity of God — Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. No records associate Freemasonry with the symbol before 1797, nor is the symbol in any way related to the Bavarian Illuminati.
Sure, if you consider 1960, "ancient", as you have said the apron is. No one is claiming the eye has never been a Masonic symbol, but more that it means something entirely different than what you are claiming. Look at the image of that apron. Where is the eye? Now look at the picture I posted of an early Masonic rendition of their version of the eye, which was stated to represent God at the time it was made. Notice the similarities?
Notice what you are saying here. I repeatedly see "IMHO" from you, and no facts to back your "HO". I will be the first to agree that nothing runs PERFECTLY, as you say, but I will concede that Masonic elections are done by the book. Ask any mason and they will agree...but wait....they would just lie anyway, right? I love how people can make up whatever they want without support and just throw everything off to "well that's just how it is". Sorry, just doesn't fly. You DO need to know the exact performance of rituals, because if you did you would realize how integral they are to Masonic succession. And wouldn't you think the "moronic members" would be a bit outraged by the lack of protocol? Or wait, I forgot, my apologies,....nobody knows when these prominent social leaders are inducted into the Masons. Sure, why not, that's vague enough.
Originally posted by MissMarple
@EdenKaia:
The adjective "ancient" is describing the other older aprons found in the internet. Irrespective of its "year of manufacturing" my apron refutes your claim that the freemasonry seal and the "All-seeing eye" have never ever appeared on one apron. And I repeat once again that there must be different interpretations of the eye depending on the degree within the masonic system.
Please quote where I said anything about the All-Seeing-Eye "never ever appearing on one apron". I have never claimed that the eye was not a Masonic symbol, but rather that it was not a symbol when the Seal of the United States was created. And you can interpret the eye however you want, the fact is in how the person responsible for the design in the Freemason society interpreted the symbol. But as I said, you could read into whatever you'd like. That doesn't make it a reality.
Okay, you might be right that an EXACT PERFORMANCE of the rituals and ceremonies is achieved. No problem. But I was rather referring to corruption within the masonic system. I can imagine that some masons are progressing faster than others with regard to obtaining degrees. Not due to their intellectual brilliance but due to their "right connections".
I would refer you to a post made by an actual Mason a while before. He outlined precisely why this does not and could not happen. Considering that this person is a Lodge Secretary, I would imagine he would know quite a bit more about it than you. Sure, your theory is "possible", but if you took a moment to consider and perhaps even research their system, you would find it most "improbable".
Originally posted by syrinx high priest
my father in law went into masonry to help in his community. He even goes into NYC in the winter to give coats to the homeless. real evil guy
Originally posted by MissMarple
I can't help disbelieving that the majority of the would-be masons would go into it for obtaining the opportunity of practising charity. No, never ever! Actually the members (probably with the exception of those of higher-levels) are obliged to engage in charity or benefit activities.
In the first place the majority joins masonry in order to make important contacts developing to business relationships. It's all about networking.
In the second place many become masons because their father, grandfather, ect were masons, too. It's all about family traditions.
And in the third place it's all about prestige.
Originally posted by Roark
Yeah, my fiancee's brother freaked out when he found out I was a Freemason. He was convinced that we were an evil organisation full of corruption and malice. I think maybe he'd just had a new toilet installed, too, and feared for its safety...
Originally posted by MissMarple
It happens that in one of these documents the "All-seeing eye" (their seal) appeared.