Photo evidence of George Herbert Walker Bush's Illuminati roots

@toasted:

Originally posted by toasted
perhaps I missed it

but did anyone think it was a gift ?
and used to expose same to children
at a young age so later on , there is no
shock , only familiarity.

now, who gave it ,is the question.

Dear toasted, I suspect that you've only glanced over the thread...uhm I don't like that very much

Yes, it was @mecheng who thought of a gift. And I said to him that it was not merely important wether it was a gift and that the question of its symbolism was of greatest interest.


It's an interesting aspect on the part of you: show the black pyramid to the young children and made them get accustomed to it from an early age.

I think not the search for the giver/sponsor is important but the symbolism of holding a black pyramid with a white tip in the lap.

Originally posted by MissMarple
Dear ConspiracyNut23, your topic preferences like "masonry of the 18th century" or "masonic rites"

I posted the link to the ritual because you claimed that the St-Louis arch is somehow related to masonry because of the contents of this degree. It’s not.

Perhaps to the Nazi-style "brotherhood of death"? Who can prove wether they are 33rd masons?

We know for a fact that both Bushies were Skull and Bones (aka. Brotherhood of Death) when they attended Yale University. (not a Masonic order)

Yes, it was @mecheng who thought of a gift.

In post preceding Mecheng’s I asked if anyone saw gift wrapping in the pic, no one replied. Does anybody else see gift decoration debris around the bed?

MissMarple I ask you once more, Can you post a list of Masons who are still alive and influential today? (a few billionaire perhaps)

Do you still claim the Gateway Bridge is Masonic?

[edit on 13/8/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

[edit on 13/8/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by Peyres
I don't believe that simply throwing money at a child will lead to them acheiving academically. There has to be a family atmposhere, and rules set in place, and kids that actually want to learn, and respect knowledge and educational attainment.

Are you completely unaware of the existence of a ruling class? Can everyone afford to go to Harvard ? How did get Bush get in Yale? (and graduated!!)

What if your granddaddy founded the Rockefeller University and the University of Chicago, would that help with your “educational attainment”?

obviously Americas educational system is very elitist. As is your medical system. Its not like that in every country, anyone can get into Oxford and Cambridge and many of the best european unis, all they need is 4 top grade A-Levels and a good personal statement., and to say well its because America is the sole player in the NWO is a little ignorant. Yes you have to pay top-up fees, but this is true at every university and you only start paying it back (no-interest) once you earn a certain amount.

[edit on 13-8-2006 by Peyres]

As for my interpretation of this pyramid...well, the pyramid with the all-seeing eye at the top (as it is pictured on the back of the one dollar note) IS the main symbol of the illuminat and the freemasons respectively.

I am not going to delve into the episode of the dollar bill issue again, but rather I will direct you Here.
As for the Illuminati and Freemason symbols, here are the main symbols, as you would say.

This is the symbol of the original Illuminati, those that were baptised by the Ante-Nicene clergy. This baptism symbolized that the Apostolic faith had an enlightened understanding. This is the most original "Illuminati" you will find. In referring to what came much later, I would assume you refer to the Weishaupt sect, and not the Alumbrados of the 16th century.

Current conspiracy theorists will often claim that the reverse of the USA great seal is the symbol of the Illuminati. If they feel the need to justify the claim, they might mention a document or manuscript that was on display "until recently" in the British Museum. The British Museum has a number of items displaying an all-seeing eye, none identified with the Bavarian Illuminati.
The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an 'omniscient Ubiquitous Deity' in the medallic art of the Renaissance. For example, the frontispiece of Sir Walter Raleigh's The History of the World (1614) showed an eye in a cloud labeled "Providentia" overlooking a globe. 1. .
Also noteworthy is a ceiling mural from the meeting hall of the Bavarian Illuminati in Ingolstadt, Bavaria. While depicting a number of scenes from classical mythology, it has no representations of eyes or pyramids.2. .
The following list comprises the major publications of primary source material of or about the Bavarian Illuminati. Few of them contain any illustrations or images other than a printer's mark. None contain an image of an eye and pyramid.

Source
So, considering the information above, and the fact that it is the Bavarian Illuminati everyone seems to consider for the NWO, what symbol are you referring to?
Here is the main symbol of Freemasonry.

Not really seeing the pyramid or all seeing eye here. Anyone?

Oh my goodness me...can you prove your statement that GHWB has never been a mason? otherwise it's just an unproven anti-thesis!

Every person that has ever been intiated as a Mason is on record, including many of the most influential people in history. The fact that neither Bush is a part of this record proves they are not members. Are you implying that they are "secret" members? If so, what would this accomplish? If your argument is based on the "elite" members being those in control, and the "elite" are all the 33 degrees...etc, then why hide their ranking, considering that there have been many highly influential people in society and politics holding this rank? What good would this do, honestly?
And BTW, 33rd degree or 3rd degree, all are equal in Freemasonry. From a prominent company CEO to a lowly janitor. Doesn't matter. There is no "elite



[edit on 13-8-2006 by EdenKaia]

Originally posted by EdenKaia
And BTW, 33rd degree or 3rd degree, all are equal in Freemasonry. From a prominent company CEO to a lowly janitor. Doesn't matter. There is no "elite

Bullshi*

If there is no elite, in masonry, then why is there a graduated system of hierarchy?

And if there was a secret elitist group that existed within masonry, they sure as hell wouldn't acknowledge thier own existenace, now would they.

Within a secret society, they would choose to remain anonomous.

For one to be indoctrinated into the masonic heiriarcal system one must have some kind of faith in the existing system. The existing system is flawed, broken and corrupt. Neither it nor it's corrupt leaders can or should be trusted.

There is no reason to trust it or it's hidden elitist members. It must be overthrown. Revolution from within, must now ensue.



[edit on 13-8-2006 by In nothing we trust]

@ConspiracyNut23:

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
I posted the link to the ritual because you claimed that the St-Louis arch is somehow related to masonry because of the contents of this degree. It’s not.

Okay, probably your point. But I've also listed several other reasons for its relation to masonry.

We know for a fact that both Bushies were Skull and Bones (aka. Brotherhood of Death) when they attended Yale University. (not a Masonic order)

Okay-my fault. I did not know for sure that the "Brotherhood of Death" was a synonym for "Skull&Bones". I thought that the "Brotherhood of Death" originated from Germany under a different name. I will further on stand by my position that "Skull and Bones" (and hence the "Brotherhood of Death") is not a harmless students' fraternity. The ideology of this order must be based on Nazi (or theosophical) concepts and principles.

It doesn't bother me that S&B is not a masonic order for they seem to have several things in common. Both appear to have Egyptian roots, a few similar symbols and probably the dogma that the bearer of the highest degress or the top are "god-like beings" in the sense that they are in control of everything. They want people to believe that they are as powerful as deities, that they are "supermen". Yes, of course, that kind of power they might have... but NEVER could they tell me that they have supernatural abilities. No way, never ever!!! It's a bluff...


To be continued...

@ConspiracyNut23:

MissMarple I ask you once more, Can you post a list of Masons who are still alive and influential today? (a few billionaire perhaps)

Beforehand I would like to point out that the most powerful/wealthy families on
earth are the old royal dynasties from Europe and their American descendants. Okay, this is my common sense based reasoning. Next, there are many peers or people from the high-level nobility (indirectly) in possession of large multinational corporations or companies whose annual sales figures (billions!) correspond to the gross national product of any high-tech industrial nation (wow, how much money they make in a year...it's nearly incredible!) Simultanously they've laid off masses of employees. Besides they maintain countless TAX-FREE foundations/charities/endowments. Not for philantropical or humanitarian reasons. They serve as front organisations/NGOs to collect monies used for NWO purposes.

Anyway, they are the major shareholders of these business companies. Therefore they control and determine what happens there, not the management board. Of course, it's also possible that they have a seat in the board of directors. Normally they prefer anonymity and remain in the background. Usually only on one chief manager of the company the media attention or public interest is focused. But, as a rule, he is not the master but a servant of the aristocratic families. Now, let us come to prime examples for these blue-blooded shareholders:

-Her majesty queen Beatrix from the Netherlands owns "Royal Dutch Shell"

Queen Beatrix is Grand Master of the Military Order of William ( Militaire Willemsorde) and the other Dutch Orders of Merit. She is an Extra Lady of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, a Dame of the Order of the Elephant (Kongelige Danske Elefantenorden)...

source;

www.answers.com...

There are undeniable affiliations between the chivalric/knights military orders and the freemasons. For instance former US president Dwight David Eisenhower was both a mason and a member of the Order of the Elephant. So it's not out of question that Queen Beatrix is a mason.

-Bill Gates (?)

In 2005 he and his wife (that is to say their TAX-FREE Bill and Linda Gates foundation) were the largest international donors to the "Rite Care Childhood Language Clinic" in Elk River/Minnesota run by Carl Nelson 33rd (Scottish Rite) and his wife.

Gates was made an honorary Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth II.

- Some Rothschilds and Rockefellers (?)

I think it's very naive to believe that the memberships of ALL members of freemasonry are recorded!!! Many members wish to remain incognito until death. For instance, it's an ridiculously easy task for the Rockefellers and Rothschilds let alone Queen Elizabeth II or Prince Charles ("The Prince of Wales' International Business Leaders Forum" (1990)) or the Duke of Kent to conceal their (potential) membership. Or the other way round: It's no problem for the directors of leading multinational companies to hide their masonic connections.

Don't worry I'm trying to find other examples of masonic billionaires. Still don't give up!
I'm working on it.

Do you still claim the Gateway Bridge is Masonic?

What Gateway Bridge? Are you confused? Have you mixed up St. Louis Arch with something else?


[edit on 13-8-2006 by MissMarple]

[edit on 13-8-2006 by MissMarple]

[edit on 13-8-2006 by MissMarple]

@EdenKaia:

Originally posted by EdenKaia
Here is the main symbol of Freemasonry.

news.bbc.co.uk..." border=0>

Not really seeing the pyramid or all seeing eye here. Anyone?

Sorry, but that's old hat. I've seen a lot of graphics or embroydery on ancient masonic aprons depicting BOTH the compass and the square AND the all-seeing eye (source: freemasonrywatch's webside) which indicates that both symbols are connected.

Every person that has ever been intiated as a Mason is on record, including many of the most influential people in history. The fact that neither Bush is a part of this record proves they are not members.

In my opinion this is a fallacy or wrong conclusion. Depending on the position/degree of the mason (influential or dependent, wealthy or middle-class, high-level or low-level) he has more or less the chance to conceal his membership so that his name will be missed on the official record. Bush belongs to the American establishment/the social elite. Therefore he theoretically would have had this chance of being removed from the record.

Are you implying that they are "secret" members? If so, what would this accomplish? If your argument is based on the "elite" members being those in control, and the "elite" are all the 33 degrees...etc, then why hide their ranking, considering that there have been many highly influential people in society and politics holding this rank? What good would this do, honestly?
And BTW, 33rd degree or 3rd degree, all are equal in Freemasonry. From a prominent company CEO to a lowly janitor. Doesn't matter. There is no "elite

I don't share your view-sorry. It's all about hampering people from connecting the dots. It's useful not to link certain members of freemasonry with NWO supporters. Hence in such cases secrecy about membership is very suitable. Unfortunately, I've got the impression that all these members of freemasonry of high rank and influence only got on the official lists of membership after beeing provided with a positive image and a fabricated/politically correct biography. The stories about these personalities which are taught in schools and universities are half-truths!

The freemasonry system has a hierarchical structure as nearly every organisation. Therefore there can be no talk of "masonic equality". All masons are equal only in the sense that they all must die one day.

Great repl;y MissMarple

Originally posted by MissMarple
What Gateway Bridge? Are you confused? Have you mixed up St. Louis Arch with something else?

lol, yes. St-Louis Arch, (I meant Gateway Arch, sorry(

Originally posted by Edelweiss Pirate
More disinfo from Masonic Lite as usual who seems to think he knows EVERYTHING in the world...
He must be a masonic God or something..

Damn it! And all this time I was told that Jab Uh Lon was the Masonic God. I should have known it was Masonic Light all along.

Guess I'll turn in my cloak and decoder ring. [sigh]

Oh, and I've been to the Gateway Arch in St. Louis. I don't know why YOU PEOPLE think it's a conspiracy, but I'll tell you what is REALLY terrifying. When you go to the top and look out the little port-hole windows. You look directly down on not only St. Louis, (God forbid) but also EAST St. Louis, both of which are situated on the Mississippi River (at a point which simply MUST be the world's largest open sewer)

[sheesh] Talk about a horrible fate. It must be something akin to death. If any of you have ever visited St. Louis (or worse yet, EAST St. Louis) you'll know what I mean. The only more revolting city in the good ol' U.S. of A. is of course Philadelphia and at least THEY have had the good sense not to build a tall structure where the general public can go up and get a birds-eye-view of the refuse and debris.

Originally posted by MissMarple
Sorry, but that's old hat. I've seen a lot of graphics or embroydery on ancient masonic aprons depicting BOTH the compass and the square AND the all-seeing eye (source: freemasonrywatch's webside) which indicates that both symbols are connected.

I think you will find, if you search around ATS long enough, a long and distinguished list of threads relevant to the debunking of the freemasonwatch website. The site has purposely and repeatedly quoted untruths and venomous nonsense they have had to revoke for legal reasons on several occassions. I'd think twice before quoting something from that site. Second, did you read the links that I posted for you? The all-seeing-eye was not adopted as a Masonic symbol until fourteen years after the Seal of the United States was adopted by Congress. This is not an opinion of mine. It is fact. Look it up. So, considering this fact, I would ask you just how ancient these masonic aprons were? Got a picture, a link, anything?

Depending on the position/degree of the mason (influential or dependent, wealthy or middle-class, high-level or low-level) he has more or less the chance to conceal his membership so that his name will be missed on the official record. Bush belongs to the American establishment/the social elite. Therefore he theoretically would have had this chance of being removed from the record.

Think about this logically. You cannot become a 33rd degree Mason overnight. Your name would have long been on record before that level was reached. How do you propose this secrecy occured. My second question: Do you have any personal knowledge of the process of attaining degrees? If not, how exactly would you know anyway? On another note, the Scottish Rite, where the degrees beyond 3rd are practiced, is not a mandatory part of membership, therefore not necessary to be intricately involved in the order. Doesn't really help with the theory of ascension, does it?

I don't share your view-sorry. It's all about hampering people from connecting the dots. It's useful not to link certain members of freemasonry with NWO supporters. Hence in such cases secrecy about membership is very suitable. Unfortunately, I've got the impression that all these members of freemasonry of high rank and influence only got on the official lists of membership after beeing provided with a positive image and a fabricated/politically correct biography. The stories about these personalities which are taught in schools and universities are half-truths!
The freemasonry system has a hierarchical structure as nearly every organisation. Therefore there can be no talk of "masonic equality". All masons are equal only in the sense that they all must die one day.

I don't believe I have ever heard something so atrocious. Basically you are saying, "I can't prove they are members because there are no records of them being members, but the reason there aren't any records is because they don't want there to be any." Are you serious? How to you expect to carry across a point like this? A weak argument at best.

@EdenKaia:

Okay, let's get into the next stage/round of our dialogue. But I don't want to go round and round in circles...It's a little bit tiresome and time-consuming.

Originally posted by EdenKaiaquote]I think you will find, if you search around ATS long enough, a long and distinguished list of threads relevant to the debunking of the freemasonwatch website. The site has purposely and repeatedly quoted untruths and venomous nonsense they have had to revoke for legal reasons on several occassions. I'd think twice before quoting something from that site.

From the masonic point of view the freemasonrywatch's webside might not be worth a second look. But to me it's a kind of bonanza with regards to the pictures.

Second, did you read the links that I posted for you? The all-seeing-eye was not adopted as a Masonic symbol until fourteen years after the Seal of the United States was adopted by Congress. This is not an opinion of mine. It is fact. Look it up. So, considering this fact, I would ask you just how ancient these masonic aprons were? Got a picture, a link, anything?

I see, in other words. the design of the US (Great) Seal was adopted byCongress on June 20, 1782. Then, fourteen years later, in 1796 the "All-seeing Eye" was introduced in masonry. By the way, endless quarrels over the correct dates and historical chronology are tiresome and time-consuming, too.

The main feature of the reverse side of the Great Seal is a pyramid. At the top of the pyramid is an eye and the words "ANNUIT COEPTIS" meaning "He has favored our undertakings". At the base of the pyramid are the Roman numerals for the year 1776, the year of US Nation's birth and the year of founding Weishaupt's "Order of the Illuminati". The scroll at the bottom contains the words "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" meaning "A new order of the ages" referring to a "New World Order". The reverse of the One Dollar Bills contain images of BOTH the Obverse of the Great Seal of the United States, and the Reverse of the Great Seal.

Provided that the "All-seeing Eye" has been masonic since 1796 then "my" apron which dates back to 1960 is a perfect piece of evidence that, indeed, there is a link between "masonry" and the "All-seeing Eye"!!!



source:
www.lewis-clark.org...

Think about this logically. You cannot become a 33rd degree Mason overnight. Your name would have long been on record before that level was reached. How do you propose this secrecy occured. My second question: Do you have any personal knowledge of the process of attaining degrees? If not, how exactly would you know anyway?...

Hey, we've DIFFERENT ways of thinking. What you consider as logical need not be understandable for me and vice versa. It's clear that NORMALLY you cannot become a 33rd degree mason in the twinkling of an eye (unless you've got the right connections). As it's the case with all organisations: their official aims & purposes formulated as rules & statutes differ considerably from the practical realization. At this fundamental view point our opinions are divided. You are telling me that in masonry or masonic organisations respectively all is PERFECTLY executed and proceeded. That all ceremonies/appointments/nominations are carried out according to the standard ancient protocols/minutes. That the social intercourse of the brethren works wonderfully. But IMHO it's not!!! It's not necessary for me to know the exact performance of rituals because I know from life experience that nobody is perfect. And masonic organisations are no exceptions to this rule.


[edit on 14-8-2006 by MissMarple]

[edit on 14-8-2006 by MissMarple]

[edit on 14-8-2006 by MissMarple]

@EdenKaia:

Originally posted by EdenKaia
... On another note, the Scottish Rite, where the degrees beyond 3rd are practiced, is not a mandatory part of membership, therefore not necessary to be intricately involved in the order. Doesn't really help with the theory of ascension, does it?

IMHO the simplest obvious reason of a person for becoming a mason is getting integrated in a profitable network and enhancing one's personal contacts. This is the main motivation. Therefore it's not surprising that many business people/future politicians or doctors/lawyers in need of clients get into masonry. It's all about sticking together and working hand in glove against non-masons. This is the reason why masonic companies & facilities prosper growing bigger and bigger whilst non-masonic business enterprises are bound to die. It's not always because of management failure. As far as the placing of an lucrative order or a job offering is concerned the masonic membership comes into play...

In other words I'm trying to say that many members of masonry, already at the lower levels, are striving for power. So a great part of the members keep on climbing up the masonic degree ladder. But only a few selected can reach the top. Maybe the Scottish or York Rites are not mandatory but
(inofficially) they are. I think only the 33rd degree masons come into consideration for higher positions at all. And only they are accepted and higly esteemed by the others 33rd's.


[edit on 14-8-2006 by MissMarple]

@EdenKaia:

Originally posted by EdenKaia
I don't believe I have ever heard something so atrocious. Basically you are saying, "I can't prove they are members because there are no records of them being members, but the reason there aren't any records is because they don't want there to be any." Are you serious? How to you expect to carry across a point like this? A weak argument at best.

Indeed, you've never read something so horribly atrocious??? Nice try-what next?

All I'm saying is that there exists TWO types of records: an official and an unofficial out of the public's eye. Every truely influential high-level mason can be deleted from the official list being registered in the other at the same time. It's sooo obvious, isn't it? It's a fool-proof argument

And it's DEFINITLY a FACT that the biographies and public images of "FAMOUS MASONS" in the textbooks of public schools and universities, even in the mainstream media, are colored/whitewashed/edited. These masons are presented to the public only after this "face-lifting" treatment/this aesthetical correction/this revision.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by MissMarple]

[edit on 14-8-2006 by MissMarple]

@EdenKaia:

This is the official freemasonic logo, not yours. There's a "G" in the centre:



I guess that the "G" stands for "God".

Originally posted by MissMarple
This is the official freemasonic logo, not yours. There's a "G" in the centre:

This is one version (of many) there's really no "official" Masonic emblem, but this is indeed, the most recognized. The "G" isn't universal. In fact it's really a U.S.A. variation. The emblem in Great Britain and other places is simply the Square and Compasses with no "G"

I guess that the "G" stands for "God".

Actually the "G" stands for "Geometry"

From the Fellowcraft (Second Degree) Ritual:

"Geometry, the first and noblest of sciences, is the basis on which the superstructure of Masonry is erected. By geometry we may curiously trace nature, through her various windings, to her most concealed recesses. By it, we discover the power, the wisdom, and the goodness of the Grand Artificer of the Universe, and view with delight the proportions which connect this vast machine. By it, we discover how the planets move in their different orbits, and demonstrate their various revolutions. By it, we account for the return of seasons and the variety of scenes which each season displays to the discerning eye.


Numberless worlds are around us, all framed by the same Divine Artist, which roll through the vast expanse, and are
all conducted by the same unerring laws of nature".

"The study of the liberal arts, that valuable branch of education, which tends so effectively to polish and adorn the mind, is earnestly recommended to your consideration; especially the science of Geometry, which is established as the basis of our art. Geometry, or Masonry, originally synonymous terms, being of a divine and moral nature, is enriched with the most useful knowledge; while it proves the wonderful properties of nature, it
demonstrates the more important truths of morality."

Originally posted by MissMarple
From the masonic point of view the freemasonrywatch's webside might not be worth a second look. But to me it's a kind of bonanza with regards to the pictures.

Just my personal standpoint. I wouldn't eat an apple from a barrel I knew had been contaminated with ebola, regardless how good it looked.

I see, in other words. the design of the US (Great) Seal was adopted byCongress on June 20, 1782. Then, fourteen years later, in 1796 the "All-seeing Eye" was introduced in masonry. By the way, endless quarrels over the correct dates and historical chronology are tiresome and time-consuming, too.

Well, you got it. And I agree, endless quarrels over dates are tiresome. Which is why I will state a date once only, and then not argue about it. What others do with the facts is their perogative.

The main feature of the reverse side of the Great Seal is a pyramid. At the top of the pyramid is an eye and the words "ANNUIT COEPTIS" meaning "He has favored our undertakings". At the base of the pyramid are the Roman numerals for the year 1776, the year of US Nation's birth and the year of founding Weishaupt's "Order of the Illuminati".

I love all these references to the Bavarian Illuminati and the all seeing eye. You wont find any references connecting the two. The Bavarian Illuminati never used the symbol.

The scroll at the bottom contains the words "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" meaning "A new order of the ages" referring to a "New World Order". The reverse of the One Dollar Bills contain images of BOTH the Obverse of the Great Seal of the United States, and the Reverse of the Great Seal.

Guess and prod all you'd like, but dates and chronology don't lie. The man responsible for the Seal design was not a mason, nor was the original committee, the one with Jefferson, even the committee whose design was approved. I think you'll find that this interpretation is the one backed by facts, and not opinions.

In 1782 the Eye of Providence was adopted as part of the symbolism on the reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States. The Eye was introduced by the original design committee of 1776, and is thought to be the suggestion of the artistic consultant, Pierre Eugene du Simitiere.
On the seal, the Eye is surrounded by the words Annuit Cœptis, meaning "It [the Eye of Providence] is favorable to our undertakings". The Eye is positioned above an unfinished pyramid with thirteen steps, representing the original thirteen states and the future growth of the country. The combined implication is that the Eye, or God, favors the prosperity of the United States.
The Great Seal is used to endorse official United States documents. As such, it is reproduced, along with the Eye of Providence, on the back of every one dollar bill.

Source
Here is an early version of the All Seeing Eye adopted by the Freemasons.

Funny, no pyramid. Perhaps that is because the triangle later surrounding the eye represented the holy trinity. Possible? Likely.

Provided that the "All-seeing Eye" has been masonic since 1796 then "my" apron which dates back to 1960 is a perfect piece of evidence that, indeed, there is a link between "masonry" and the "All-seeing Eye"!!!

Sure, if you consider 1960, "ancient", as you have said the apron is. No one is claiming the eye has never been a Masonic symbol, but more that it means something entirely different than what you are claiming. Look at the image of that apron. Where is the eye? Now look at the picture I posted of an early Masonic rendition of their version of the eye, which was stated to represent God at the time it was made. Notice the similarities?

Hey, we've DIFFERENT ways of thinking. What you consider as logical need not be understandable for me and vice versa. It's clear that NORMALLY you cannot become a 33rd degree mason in the twinkling of an eye (unless you've got the right connections). As it's the case with all organisations: their official aims & purposes formulated as rules & statutes differ considerably from the practical realization. At this fundamental view point our opinions are divided. You are telling me that in masonry or masonic organisations respectively all is PERFECTLY executed and proceeded. That all ceremonies/appointments/nominations are carried out according to the standard ancient protocols/minutes. That the social intercourse of the brethren works wonderfully. But IMHO it's not!!! It's not necessary for me to know the exact performance of rituals because I know from life experience that nobody is perfect. And masonic organisations are no exceptions to this rule.

Notice what you are saying here. I repeatedly see "IMHO" from you, and no facts to back your "HO". I will be the first to agree that nothing runs PERFECTLY, as you say, but I will concede that Masonic elections are done by the book. Ask any mason and they will agree...but wait....they would just lie anyway, right? I love how people can make up whatever they want without support and just throw everything off to "well that's just how it is". Sorry, just doesn't fly. You DO need to know the exact performance of rituals, because if you did you would realize how integral they are to Masonic succession. And wouldn't you think the "moronic members" would be a bit outraged by the lack of protocol? Or wait, I forgot, my apologies,....nobody knows when these prominent social leaders are inducted into the Masons. Sure, why not, that's vague enough.






[edit on 14-8-2006 by EdenKaia]

Originally posted by MissMarple
Indeed, you've never read something so horribly atrocious???

Nice try-what next?

If you are really going to waste post space to harp on whether or not I typed "read", then you really do need to find some better material.

All I'm saying is that there exists TWO types of records: an official and an unofficial out of the public's eye. Every truely influential high-level mason can be deleted from the official list being registered in the other at the same time. It's sooo obvious, isn't it? It's a fool-proof argument

You're right, it is a fool-proof argument, as those without logic so commonly are. "How do you know the pink monkeys are going to invade the earth?" "Well, I just believe they will, because I have faith." HA! Prove any of this and I'll stand humbly corrected.

And it's DEFINITLY a FACT that the biographies and public images of "FAMOUS MASONS" in the textbooks of public schools and universities, even in the mainstream media, are colored/whitewashed/edited. These masons are presented to the public only after this "face-lifting" treatment/this aesthetical correction/this revision.

Alright, I'll bite. Considering your capitalization, I would assume these facts are readily available to you. Would you mind sharing them with the rest of us poor, diluted fools?

the red phone in the background is more interesting, is that the nuke hotline ?

I think it is a clock or paperweight


.

Originally posted by MissMarple
@EdenKaia:

Originally posted by EdenKaia
... On another note, the Scottish Rite, where the degrees beyond 3rd are practiced, is not a mandatory part of membership, therefore not necessary to be intricately involved in the order. Doesn't really help with the theory of ascension, does it?

IMHO the simplest obvious reason of a person for becoming a mason is getting integrated in a profitable network and enhancing one's personal contacts. This is the main motivation. Therefore it's not surprising that many business people/future politicians or doctors/lawyers in need of clients get into masonry. It's all about sticking together and working hand in glove against non-masons. This is the reason why masonic companies & facilities prosper growing bigger and bigger whilst non-masonic business enterprises are bound to die. It's not always because of management failure. As far as the placing of an lucrative order or a job offering is concerned the masonic membership comes into play...

In other words I'm trying to say that many members of masonry, already at the lower levels, are striving for power. So a great part of the members keep on climbing up the masonic degree ladder. But only a few selected can reach the top. Maybe the Scottish or York Rites are not mandatory but
(inofficially) they are. I think only the 33rd degree masons come into consideration for higher positions at all. And only they are accepted and higly esteemed by the others 33rd's.


[edit on 14-8-2006 by MissMarple]

my father in law went into masonry to help in his community. He even goes into NYC in the winter to give coats to the homeless. real evil guy