Israel "Ignored" UN Troops Pleas To Stop Firing So Close To Them

This whole thing just creates another reason I agree with the Iranian guy with the hard to pronounce name.

Likes some have said, how does a precision guided weapon "accidentally" hit, I mean come one, especially since it's basically American weapons, and you kn ow us Americans we love our explosions and death machines, so you know it's gonna be precise.

On an off note, I think Israel just wants to take Lebanon over and make it apart of Israel, to make there country bigger.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Originally posted by neformore
Just when you think that people on ATS can't get any *removed* another total *removed* crawls out of the woodwork and reminds you just how low humanity can really sink.

Why is this person insulted? Why?

They have an idea different then yours with regards to fighting terror, so they are automatically insulted? Seems like a prime example of "low humanity" and also a prime example of why there are still wars in this world. Differences which lead to insults and more, rather than discussion.

Shame.

Well Said Zeddicus. It's nice to see another voice of reason and intelligence among crowd. Thumbs Up

I am with Neformore, and yes, I find this insulting and respectless, especially the quote stated hereunder.


Edit: Yeah, let's just say this was my first Edit button screw up and move on.

Sorry about that MDV.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

Originally posted by Mdv2
I am with Neformore, and yes, I find this insulting and respectless, especially the quote stated hereunder.

So you're for insulting people when they don't agree or match your opinion? Got it.



I understand you don't like or respect the poster's comment just like Isreal didn't like getting hit with rockets. So what do you do? You fire back with insults and choose to escalate the matter instead of another solution.

Hypocracy is not dead it seems. Anyone see the irony there at all?

Seems to me, all the UN does is supply observation posts. The observe the genocide in Rawanda, observe the genocide in Sudan, observe the arms build up in Lebanon. Weren't they supposed to report that one to someone? But they do take active rolls sometimes. Like the rapes in the Congo and the complicity with the starvation in Iraq, as Saddam increased his arms and palaces, all for oil vouchers. That required some action. So, please excuse me if I lack the proper sympathy for a group who still wants to hug hips with oil tyrants in the middle east.

As far as I'm concerned, if the UN had been doing its job as agreed in '78 this mess wouldn't be going on now. So in some ways, the chickens have come home to roost.

Israel actually gives up territory, displacing Israelis and forcibly removing them from their homes, and still it is not enough. So, yeah. They give up territory for an even bigger land grab. Makes perfect sense.

How about a headline that says, "UN Ignores Israeli Pleas to Enforce Resolutions 1978-2006"?

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Hypocracy is not dead it seems. Anyone see the irony there at all?

Ooo! Ooo! I do! *raises hand in air* I do!

Originally posted by thermopolis
Who cares the UN is useless...........there guys might have been the ones who raped all those little girls in the Congo. God just punished them. Way to go God!

I think it would be best if you kept God out of this. It's the U.N. getting the brunt of a mistake. Whether it was intentional (The Hezbollah using them as shield, or the Israeli deliberately attacking them) or accidental remains to be a question to me.

Originally posted by Mdv2The UN O-B-S-E-R-V-A-T-I-O-N force is not in Southern Lebanon to intervene.

UNDOF is a ‘disengagement observer force”, UNTSO is a “truce supervision organization”, UNIFIL is a peacekeeping “interim force” under specific mandates:


1)Confirm the withdrawal of Israeli forces from southern Lebanon (check)

2)Restore international peace and security… (must have missed that one)

3)Assist the Government of Lebanon in ensuring the return of itseffective
authority in the area…(strike 2)

There is also not a lot of trust by Israel in the UNIFIL.

Perhaps people forget that the in 2000, Hezbollah kidnapped three IDF soldiers, dressed as UN troops while UNIFIL troops “observed” and took bribes from Hezbollah.

The UN withheld the video of the incident by denying any existed; one tape eventually was acknowledged and reviewed, but only after pressure from the US, later a second video would appear. (There are archived news reports about this) here is some non-archived information:

The Indian soldier said that at least four UN soldiers collaborated with the Hizbullah to help them reach the ambush location, and to assist them in locating the IDF soldiers.

Some of the collaborators later returned to India and reported what happened. Israeli officials went to India to investigate. Senior Indian sources also conducted an investigation and seriously criticized the soldiers' behavior.

The Hizbullah had made intimidating threats against the Indian contingent. But at the same time, they had bribed several soldiers in the Indian contingent with liquor, Lebanese women and money.
Source

Also, on the relation to this topic…
Geneva Convention IV: Art. 28.

"The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."

Why?…because the risk of collateral casualties increases….



mg

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Why is this person insulted? Why?

They have an idea different then yours with regards to fighting terror, so they are automatically insulted? Seems like a prime example of "low humanity" and also a prime example of why there are still wars in this world. Differences which lead to insults and more, rather than discussion.

Shame.

Anyone who thinks its funny that people die, or advocates death is as bad as any terrorist IMHO. Whats the point of a "war on terror" when you are as bloodthirsty as the people you are supposed to be "better" than?

I thought the motto of ATS was "Deny Ignorance"? I'd say theres a whole lot of ignorance in what was typed in that post.

Besides. The comment I alluded to was nothing to do with the "war on terror", it was to do with UN peacekeepers being targetted by Israeli forces. The UN peacekeepers aren't terrorists, are they?

Revelling in peoples death IS the lowest form of humanity.

The only way people are going to stop being killed is for someone to stop killing. You DO NOT make friends by blowing up people. YOu just make more enemies and that is the same for BOTH sides.

Why Courtesy Is So Important

Although I know my fellow mods are all over this thread, I still have to jump in with a trademark pious philosophical observation.

One of the reasons I am so excited about PTS is the fact that here we can talk about almost anything even remotely related to politics, and do it the "ATS Way".

This makes PTS unique on all the Internet, because no one else does it like we do.

The ATS Way is no secret. It's spelled out in plainly in the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

While I tend to think most members have probably never read them -- I mean come on, who ever reads those things, right? -- I recommend doing so because they define how we do things in every ATS-Family forum.

What Makes ATS And PTS So Special

One of the most important ATS principles defined by the T&C is respect for other members regardless of their opinions.

Even if you think another member is an absolute monster, that member is entitled to express his or her opinion, as long as he or she doesn't violate the T&C in the process.

That is an extremely powerful formula for a discussion forum.

If all of us simply behave ourselves, we can talk about pretty much anything, and no one can stop us!

This is why I'm such an ATS (and now PTS) fanboi. There is no limit to our potential if we honor the T&C.

The ATS Way

So when the time comes that you see a member post something that seems so outrageous you just want to cry “troll!” or “idiot!”, I ask you to remember that even if you're right and that member really is an idiot, the cure for ignorance is knowledge.

Sharing it constructively requires tremendous patience, and -- I promise -- pays off in the end.

Those Pesky Israelis

So, did Israel deliberately attack a U.N. outpost? I don't know.

But if we patiently examine and discuss the information available to us, we just might find out.

Such is the ATS Way -- and, I am very proud to say, the PTS Way as well.





[edit on 7/26/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by neformore
Whats the point of a "war on terror" when you are as bloodthirsty as the people you are supposed to be "better" than?

And yet you lower yourself to personal insults. Is that an example of how you're "better" then the other poster? I repeat the part about irony.

Originally posted by neformore
You DO NOT make friends by blowing up people. YOu just make more enemies and that is the same for BOTH sides.

You DO NOT make friends by insulting them. You just make more enemies.

Seeing the irony yet?

So whats the UN gonna do about it? Nothing, thats what. Because they are pansies and candy. Just like the Iranians and Syrians.

There should be an ATS tax on emoticons.

If you need 12 emoticons in three rows to express your sentiment then your argument is in trouble.

[edit on 26/7/06 by subz]

missed_gear,

Your info is an oasis in a desert of talking points.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Why is this person insulted? Why?

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he said the UN troops that just lost their lives deserved to die? And that he thanked God they were killed? Or that they "could of been" guilty of rape in Africa with no proof WHATSOEVER? Why didnt you edit his hateful rhetoric?

Wouldnt that members post be classed as behaving in a "hateful manner"? Reveling in the deaths of 4 innocent UN peace keepers is pretty hateful to me.

[edit on 26/7/06 by subz]

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Why is this person insulted? Why?

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he said the UN troops that just lost their lives deserved to die? And that he thanked God they were killed? Or that they "could of been" guilty of rape in Africa with no proof WHATSOEVER? Why didnt you edit his hateful rhetoric?

Shame alright.

For a long term member and an FSME, I guess I need to remind you of how the T&C of ATS works. Opinion, comments, etc are actually allowed here (subject to a few rules of course). Personal insults are not.

Lets face it, the UN has done nothing to stop terrorist from attacking Isreal. Perhaps Isreal did just kill a terrorist forward observer post.

Who cares the UN is useless...........there guys might have been the ones who raped all those little girls in the Congo. God just punished them. Way to go God!

I see some opinion (like everyone), some speculative conspiratorial comments (like everyone), and then some sarcasm (like everyone).

For this, the poster is insulted on a personal level.

You seem to agree with that practice and yet you accuse others of "baiting" you and having trollish behavior. Perhaps it's would be prudent to think on that.

[edit on 26-7-2006 by ZeddicusZulZorander]

Originally posted by subz
Reveling in the deaths of 4 innocent UN peace keepers is pretty hateful to me.

"Reveling?"

Now where did THAT come from? Again, you'd think an FSME would understand that the "way to go God" comment is not so dissimilar from a tactic used by some when talking about natural disasters that kill thousands of innocent people. It's more of an arguement about the existance of God, then anything.

I would imagine that you could discuss the effectiveness of the UN in similar situations or even discuss how to combat terrorists that use innocents as a human shield (negotiate, give them what they want, attack them, ignore them, etc).

In fact discussing something like that would be much preferred to siding with personal insults made. I guess if you go the personal insult route...your argument is also pretty much in trouble.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I guess I need to remind you of how the T&C of ATS works. Opinion, comments, etc are actually allowed here (subject to a few rules of course). Personal insults are not.

What if it's a hateful opinion/comment? Perhaps you do need to explain this to me.

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

Am I mistaken and that post from thermopolis is not hateful? How would you describe his post?

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I see some opinion (like everyone), some speculative conspiratorial comments (like everyone), and then some sarcasm (like everyone).

I see a hateful opinion.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
For this, the poster is insulted on a personal level.

I dont condone the abuse he received in the slightest. You asked why he was abused and I gave you my thoughts on why. Im just perplexed that his hateful rhetoric was left unchallenged in the mod edit spree.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
You seem to agree with that practice and yet you accuse others of "baiting" you and having trollish behavior. Perhaps it's would be prudent to think on that.

Agree with what practice? The abuse he received? Never said that, you've assumed that I guess.

Yes I was on the receiving end of the trollish behaviour you're alluding to and I hope that is not clouding your judgement of me. I dont see any corrolation to the thread you are refering to here. Are you pursuing some kind of vendetta against me because I dared to criticise a moderator?

[edit on 26/7/06 by subz]

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
"Reveling?"

Now where did THAT come from?

Yes it was reveling, you conveniently didnt quote the six thumbs up emoticons that followed the "Way to go God" comment.

Way to go God!

Reveling: to take intense pleasure or satisfaction.

I'd say thermopolis indicated his pleasure quite well with the six thumbs up emoticons, dont you?

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Again, you'd think an FSME would understand that the "way to go God" comment is not so dissimilar from a tactic used by some when talking about natural disasters that kill thousands of innocent people. It's more of an arguement about the existance of God, then anything.

Yes, speaking as an FSME I do think he was reveling in the deaths of these UN peace keepers. If you see it differently then good for you

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
In fact discussing something like that would be much preferred to siding with personal insults made. I guess if you go the personal insult route...your argument is also pretty much in trouble.

I didnt side with the personal insults.

[edit on 26/7/06 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
Am I mistaken and that post from thermopolis is not hateful? How would you describe his post?

Not hateful. There is no love for the UN certainly, and a statement of "pehaps" they were evil people anyway (written in such a way as to provoke of course). It might not have been formed in the best possible words, but how does that warrant personal insults in return?

I see a hateful opinion.

Where? I could say I hate tomatoes. Now you'll place me in the "hateful opinion" category too?

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

There was no harrassing, threats, or attacks except at the poster. There was no abuse or hateful behavior. I don't actually see "hateful opinion" there myself.

I dont condone the abuse he received in the slightest. Im just perplexed that his hateful rhetoric was left unchallenged in the mod edit spree.

What hateful retoric? He doesn't like the UN? God forbid.