A post to promote sanity

Hi sugar!~

I wanted to post a thread about how things seems to be getting out of control. I have no right to say what this message board should and shouldn't be about, but I feel that in the short time I have been here ..........the regulars on this forum have lost track of reality, and there is no demand for the existance of proof on any topic that I can see.


Informal Poll

1. When you read an incredible account on this site.............do you ever wonder about proof when judging if someone is for real or not?

2. I think that everyone here is a believer in ET and the such..........Have you ever considered the possibility of a reality that does not involve ET? In other words, What if everything you ever heard about ET was false and we were just a lone species on the ONE planet in the solar system with life?

3. Do you expect proof when someone comes forth with extraoridnary claims?

4. Do you think that Gravity is instantanious rather than a wave that takes time to travel?

5. Why is it that EVERY alien abduction you hear of involves them being woken up in bed and floating out the window?? Don't you think that an ET from millions of miles away, an alien that could spit a beam to immobilize you......... and then doesn't take you through the wall BUT decides to take you through the window??? WHY DOES EVERY ALIEN ABDUCTION INVOLVE THE WINDOW????

Oh wait...............I KNOW. It's because a real alien would abduct you through the wall or cieling but if you imagined it in your head it would make sense to claim you got sucked out the window.

WINDOW ABDUCTIONS ARE NOT REAL>>>>>>>>>

There is NO reason that an advanced species would not take you through the ceiling but instead take you through the window JUST to make a good story.

yeah, same with all other abduction stories..........THEY AREN'T REAL

Originally posted by UareKRAZY
Hi sugar!~


2. I think that everyone here is a believer in ET and the such..........Have you ever considered the possibility of a reality that does not involve ET? In other words, What if everything you ever heard about ET was false and we were just a lone species on the ONE planet in the solar system with life?


5. Why is it that EVERY alien abduction you hear of involves them being woken up in bed and floating out the window?? Don't you think that an ET from millions of miles away, an alien that could spit a beam to immobilize you......... and then doesn't take you through the wall BUT decides to take you through the window??? WHY DOES EVERY ALIEN ABDUCTION INVOLVE THE WINDOW????

Oh wait...............I KNOW. It's because a real alien would abduct you through the wall or cieling but if you imagined it in your head it would make sense to claim you got sucked out the window.

WINDOW ABDUCTIONS ARE NOT REAL>>>>>>>>>

There is NO reason that an advanced species would not take you through the ceiling but instead take you through the window JUST to make a good story.

yeah, same with all other abduction stories..........THEY AREN'T REAL

2. Not a real posibility considering ALL the sightings... the majority can be rationally explained... but a lot of them involve incredible maneuvers, solid objects, radar and visual confirmation, multiple witnesses. I don't know man... I see a pattern here, and I see something intelligent is behind... meaning, something ELSE that human.

5. Still sleep paralysis, dreams, military experiments, and such, don't fit in all reported cases. Those "explanations" aren't explaining all. Again, I think something intelligent is behind.

Proof? Well, asuming all this phenomenon is furtive by nature, and a clear intelligent behavior behind, I don't see how we can reproduce such things on controlled conditions in a lab to find a final and conclusive explanation.

You gotta lotta nerve "promoting sanity" with a name like that!

Originally posted by UareKRAZY

Informal Poll

1. When you read an incredible account on this site.............do you ever wonder about proof when judging if someone is for real or not?

There's a difference between "proof" and "evidence." Technically, there is no "proof" outside mathematics.
With that in mind, then, yes I do often wonder about evidence in such cases.

Originally posted by UareKRAZY
2. I think that everyone here is a believer in ET and the such..........Have you ever considered the possibility of a reality that does not involve ET? In other words, What if everything you ever heard about ET was false and we were just a lone species on the ONE planet in the solar system with life?

I am not a believer in ET if you mean intelligent ET. Maybe microbes or something. Other than that, I'm absolutely sure that Earth has produced the only intelligent life in the solar system.

But I'm not stupid enough to rule out other intelligent life in other solar systems somewhere.

Originally posted by UareKRAZY
3. Do you expect proof when someone comes forth with extraoridnary claims?

I expect evidence. See above.

Originally posted by UareKRAZY
4. Do you think that Gravity is instantanious rather than a wave that takes time to travel?

There is no such thing as "instantaneous." Relativity demonstrates this.

Originally posted by UareKRAZY
5. Why is it that EVERY alien abduction you hear of involves them being woken up in bed and floating out the window?? Don't you think that an ET from millions of miles away, an alien that could spit a beam to immobilize you......... and then doesn't take you through the wall BUT decides to take you through the window??? WHY DOES EVERY ALIEN ABDUCTION INVOLVE THE WINDOW????

I don't know. Maybe because there's always a window in the room where these people claim to have been abducted from.

Did you know, the vast majority of alien abduction claims come from people living in high rise apartment buildings in big cities? You'd think ET would know better than to park his saucer out there in front of a couple million people while he floats an apartment dweller out the window. I mean, why not abduct people that live at least in somewhat more deserted surroundings? Is ET doing a study on urbanites or what?

Harte

Originally posted by UareKRAZY

Informal Poll
1. When you read an incredible account on this site.............do you ever wonder about proof when judging if someone is for real or not?

Proof is highly unlikely, only real proof is held or known by people that aren't able to come forward and have too much to lose by doing so.

Evidence would be nice but what evidence? A photo, a video, a doctor's note, an object? If someone starts saying incredible things, what would be acceptable to prove what they are saying is true? How do you get evidence of an experience and one you likely have little control over?

You can dismiss them as wacky or you can let them ramble on. If there is no substance to what they are saying, they will just make themselves look silly but they can do that on their own, I don't think they need to be ridiculed if they are doing it themselves and leave to each and every one to decide whats real or not.

2. I think that everyone here is a believer in ET and the such..........Have you ever considered the possibility of a reality that does not involve ET? In other words, What if everything you ever heard about ET was false and we were just a lone species on the ONE planet in the solar system with life?

Yes but I believe that when theres so much smoke, you gotta be sure theres a least a flame or two.

3. Do you expect proof when someone comes forth with extraoridnary claims?

No. I honestly think that most of us will have to finish our physical lives before we know what's really going on. I don't mind waiting, so long as I get clued in at some point.

4. Do you think that Gravity is instantanious rather than a wave that takes time to travel?

No

5. Why is it that EVERY alien abduction you hear of involves them being woken up in bed and floating out the window?? Don't you think that an ET from millions of miles away, an alien that could spit a beam to immobilize you......... and then doesn't take you through the wall BUT decides to take you through the window??? WHY DOES EVERY ALIEN ABDUCTION INVOLVE THE WINDOW????

Oh wait...............I KNOW. It's because a real alien would abduct you through the wall or cieling but if you imagined it in your head it would make sense to claim you got sucked out the window.

Do you mean the physical body? This is not my understanding of how abductions take place. I would probably lean toward these type as being something else but it's all conjecture.

yeah, same with all other abduction stories..........THEY AREN'T REAL

A lot of them won't be, I don't have an opinion on the percentage that are real/not real but if you consider that ONLY 1 of these stories needs to be true then you either believe it happens or you don't. Even if you found that single one and had it proved, it doesn't mean that all the others are true either, just that it happens.


[edit on 22/7/06 by Prote]

I wanted to post a thread about how things seems to be getting out of control. I have no right to say what this message board should and shouldn't be about, but I feel that in the short time I have been here ..........the regulars on this forum have lost track of reality, and there is no demand for the existance of proof on any topic that I can see.

Thats because these threads are mostly ignored by skeptical people, theres nothing that is presented as evidence, there is only wild claims and theories that can also be debunked but my attempts always get ignored eventually.Thats why i stay away from those discussions.Sorry to say so but on this board it seems the majority of the users live in a fantasyworld.Its fun to read sometimes but after a while u think like wtf hes serious!!
Thank god theres still topics with vids and pics sometimes, its the only reason i am staying around for, i hope you aswell even though you do have a funny name .

Err...can someone please explain the practical difference between evidence and proof!?!

Concerning abductions, UareKRAZY, can you please provide proof regarding your claim that all abductions are not real? Sorry, couldn´t resist. The very minute solid proof which the majority of this board can buy into the board itself will be rendered surplus. Meanwhile, each and everyone needs to decide for themselves and your guess is just as good as mine. Fantasyworld? I´m curious about who is really living in a fantasyworld and who´s not...

Added by edit, UareKRAZY, good post, discussing issues regarding definitons about proof is IMHO much needed in here!

[edit on 22-7-2006 by tomra]

Originally posted by tomra
Err...can someone please explain the practical difference between evidence and proof!?!

Concerning abductions, UareKRAZY, can you please provide proof regarding your claim that all abductions are not real?

Sorry, couldn´t resist. The very minute solid proof which the majority of this board can buy into the board itself will be rendered surplus. Meanwhile, each and everyone needs to decide for themselves and your guess is just as good as mine. Fantasyworld? I´m curious about who is really living in a fantasyworld and who´s not...

Added by edit, UareKRAZY, good post, discussing issues regarding definitons about proof is IMHO much needed in here!

[edit on 22-7-2006 by tomra]

I am ok on peoples theories/predictions that could possibly be true, however i am not ok when people start to redicule scientific facts as bs just because it fits in there agenda.

Your idea of sanity seems to have more to do with what you believe the regulars on these forums believe. How do you know what we believe, without proof?

Second, I would argue that when you are told certain things by certain people, you tend to question the assumption that we have a good grip on what is going on.

Personally, I am not conviced of the stories that go around. But I find them interesting. Does interest in the unexplained make one insane? SO much for progress if that is the case.

[edit on 23-7-2006 by Ectoterrestrial]

If you are a 'non-believer', then how come you supposedly shelled out good money to buy Dr Greer's book? That doesn't make sense. I mean, it's healthy to maintain a skeptical outlook and a sense of perspective on things, but you are coming across as nothing more than a troll. I would expect a reader of Dr Greer's books to at least have a sense of balance, but you're launching attack upon attack, not just on Greer.. but the community here as a whole.

I don't need you to be my sense of perspective thanks. If you created this thread as a kind of public service for the bewildered, then chances are your remarks won't be taken very kindly around here. We can think critically on our own, thanks.

[edit on 23-7-2006 by RiotComing]

is what this site acts as a venue or forum for. The discussion of just about anything the Human mind can conceive within the limits of the TAC. If you're uncomfortable with people sharing their experiences, beliefs, theories or random thoughts because they don't fit into your concept of "reality" then you are certainly in the right place!

Thousands of people have come to this site thinking they knew everything and discovered much of what they "knew" was nothing more than dogma force fed to them from the society within which they were raised.

When you make statements that are finite, i.e. "They Aren't Real" you leave no room for error or possibility. Humanity spent thousands of years absolutely certain the world was flat and the sun traveled around it. There was no "proof" available to show the world was not flat but that didn't stop the explorers who sailed the seas risking life and limb should they fall off the edge into the abyss.

Naturally many claims are the produce of vivid imaginations, some are outright deliberate attempts at hoaxing people for one reason or another, and then there is the category that simply defy explanation. The last category is the one I believe it unwise to cast aside out of hand simply because we can't "prove" them.

The day we close our minds to anything that can't be proven will be a dark day for Humanity indeed.

Dogma is an ugly thing, almost as ugly as ignorance and certainly a product of it. Dogma has killed more people than just about anything else in history and the blinding effects of it are dangerous to the extreme.

Springer...

Originally posted by tomra
Err...can someone please explain the practical difference between evidence and proof!?!

Think O.J. Simpson, for an example of everyday differences between evidence and proof.

Scientifically speaking, there is no proof of anything. Only evidence. As science progresses, we approach arbitrarily closer to a description of what we observe. That in no way means that we are approaching the truth of what we observe. That's putting it generally.

For a specific example, think of the Newtonian laws of motion. When these laws were derived, the scientific method was fairly new. In those days, there was the idea that science could actually arrive at the truth of a situation. Since then, with the maturity of the scientific method, it has been realized that the "truth" is not a thing to be pursued through rationalism. IOW, science is just the sum of rational attempts to arrive at a description of an event that can be used by anyone anywhere anytime to describe in a repeatable and measurable way the same, or similar, events.

The laws of motion, at first, perfectly described what we observed and many at the time thought that that particular area of reality had been fully described. Once we achieved the ability to observe a little better, it was found that Newton was slightly wrong. His laws still worked for ordinary objects at reasonable speeds, sure. But not for every object at any speed. This was the beginning of the maturing of rationalism, at least in science anyway.

Today, it's been noted that, no matter what kind of science we do, we are only approaching a description of observed reality, and not the actual truth of the reality itself. IOW, a dependable, reusable model of reality that allows us to use it to make predictions about future events in reality.

In our everyday world, though, the idea of proof is generally agreed to mean the sort of proof you find in Court proceedings. Beyond a reasonable doubt, in other words, but still, not beyond all doubt.

To "prove" the existence of ET in this manner, you need ET to walk up and bite you on the butt. But good strong "evidence" of the existence of ET would be a collection of pictures from various angles of ET biting you on the butt, plus a display of teeth (or other) marks on your butt showing where the biting took place.

Harte

The last category is the one I believe it unwise to cast aside out of hand simply because we can't "prove" them.

Well so if i open a topic about the time that i was abducted by the giant ant race of planet Zarwa, then this is ok to do so because nobody can "prove" that giant ants really exist?

Originally posted by onbekend59

The last category is the one I believe it unwise to cast aside out of hand simply because we can't "prove" them.

Well so if i open a topic about the time that i was abducted by the giant ant race of planet Zarwa, then this is ok to do so because nobody can "prove" that giant ants really exist?

If that´s your story, not only can you do it but i sure HOPE you do it. You know, the minute we start to make rules about what is considered credible and what is not considered credible we´re gonna miss out on a lot of potentially "good stuff". Have we learned nothing? There´s so many things we today take for granted which would once have been a one way ticket to beeing outcasted from any comunity if one were to talk about it. Concerning images and video, while they are valuable and interesting sources they are just that, sources of information. I have yet to see a video/image which would be very hard to fake. If anyone got any i would love to see it, really (no sarcasm at all).

I would say bring on the story about the giant ants but don´t expect a lot of people buying into it unless you can make a really good argument about it. Heh, funny thing is that someone might make claims here which are waaay out there and 99% of the board think it´s total BS while the reality might be that it´s actually the truth.

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