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Should Christians seek political power?

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posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 03:54 PM
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With a religious agenda?

It’s right for politicians that are also Christians to evangelize while they are in political positions.

Politics has been linked to corruption and unscriptural practices, then why religious groups seek to gain hold of society through the use of politics.

Many religious leaders have a goal to get into government with the excuse to secure the freedom to evangelize and keep it protected.

But . . . doesn’t our constitution already make sure that freedom of religion is a constitutional right?

Then . . . it seems that the agenda could be a different one that we may think.

Many religious political figures believe that they can go on with their work while doing their religious duty.

The goal of religion getting into politics have an agenda, to educate with a Christian perspective, Churches to be the center of the political community, and create a society that is rule with a Christian perspective.

Is this good for the nation? Or just an attempt to push ideologies.




posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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My view is that all religion should be kept out of politics, for the very reasons that you state.
Not picking on christianity here, that go's for Islam, Budhism(sp) and any other religion that you can think of.
Yes I agree there is probably an agenda behind it.

edit: Just because you're christian doesn't mean you can't get into politics though.

[edit on 17-7-2006 by madhatter]



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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A Christian nation wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing, but your right, it wouldn't be great either.

Most Christians I know of, in the UK at least, do not care for heavy Christian involvement in politics. Sure they would love issues like abortion to be tailored to their beleifs, however this isn't simply a religious issues. There are atheists who still value life over 'individual choice'. Many are still afraid of overpowerful governments, particularly those who may claim to appease those of the faith, whilst actually using that support for other means. And of course, the Bible warns about this

Most realise that there is a limited scope to which Christian politicians could really acheive a Christian society. Others feel it should be left to an individual, family and local community focus. And this is my own particularly view on it.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Unfortunetly Christians in the United States are not so calm....it appears that many have been radicalised towards the belief that God wants this to be a Theological Country.... Now not all christians are this way but there is a growing segement of the population that is coming around to those views. It doesnt help that the current president has claimed that God wanted him to be president.

Our founders wanted to ensure that Religon never got into politics....when religon gets into politics history has shown that said government tends to eventually becaome Authoritarian. Check most Middle Eastern Countries....the Roman Catholic church during the Dark ages and much of the Middle ages.....

Religon on politics just doesn't mix and I believe that goes for ALL religon .... it is just that here in the US it is the Christian faith that is poised to attempt a political take-over....if i was in the ME i would say Islam.... Religon must be kept out of POlitics not only to keep politics pure but to keep religon pure...you mix them and all you get is corruption.

[edit on 17-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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I posted this a while ago in a related thread :

I have just been watching a Channel 4 (UK) documentary about Patrick Henry College in Virginia. The college is a Christian college whose founder espouses education according to the literal word of the bible with the specific purpose of preparing students for a career in the political sphere, with a particular affiliation to the GOP. The 'long-game' is the desire to influence American society away from what is seen as 'moral decay'.

There were many interesting moments :

- At the student's inauguration, the founder of PHC said words to the effect 'I don't care what Plato says, if it's in the Bible, that's what is true'.

- Students volunteered to lobby in opposition to asbestos compensation claims, as such compensation was said to be 'not in the interests of business'.

- Students lobbying in opposition to estate tax, as 'the earth is the Lord's'.

- Students asserted that Christianity is the only valid faith, as it was the oldest.

I have to admit, to me, the prospect of such intense and, almost, blinkered people being groomed for high office, is somewhat disconcerting. The use of the phrase 'Christian Republic' immediately conjured up images of other religious republics around the world, with one in particular standing out.

It would also appear that Christian doctrine is not incompatible with big business practices, which I found ironic given that the perception of capitalism can sometimes be tinged by a sense of unfairness and corruption.

I have to give these people their due however. The concept of moral relativism is firmly rejected, so at least the position adopted by these people is unambiguous, even if the prospect of these people coming to office and 'shaping America's cultural destiny' is somewhat disturbing, to me at least.

Patrick Henry College (Wikipedia)

Channel 4 Programme Review

Patrick Henry College Site

[edit on 17-7-2006 by KhieuSamphan]



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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I will agree that the religious movements have been working, financially to get their hands into politics.

All you have to do is remember how the religious groups were very active in the last elections endorsing the Republican Party and Mr. Bush.

They have the time, the money and they know how to get there.

Now the Patrick Henry College is unaccredited so they like many other colleges that are Christina have problems with the degrees students can get.

These colleges do not meet requirements for many of their curriculums especially in science.

If for some reason they become acceptable all we are going to have a group of misleading undereducated leaders to run our nation under one God.



posted on Jul, 17 2006 @ 08:36 PM
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"Political power in the hands of religion has always, always lead to tyranny. Political power in the hands of religion will always lead to tyranny."

Religions that grab political power aren't doing it because they want to spread religion. They seek it because they want the power. They want to tell you that you cannot pray to any god but the one they tell you to pray too. If you do they use that political power to persecute you.

They want to tell you what you can and cannot do with your body. If found in violation of what they have mandated you are once again, persecuted.

Religions that reach for political power have nothing to do with God, it's about greedy men who want to dominate all they see in the name of whatever god they worship.

It is nothing less than an abomination.

wupy

[edit on 17-7-2006 by mrwupy]



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 08:15 AM
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What a Timely Question.... the answer is NO.

A person Seeking Political power by definition cannot be a Christian. they are polar opposites to each other. Politics is Compromise, Religion is steadfast belief to the point of murdering those that do not agree with you. There are no commandments to create a PAC and run for office, in fact Christ reminded his followers to "render until ceasar what is ceasars, render unto god what is Gods".
There is clear seperation of church and state in the Bible, with governments organized outside the structure Christ Taught.

The true terror lies in misguided intentions of good people believing they hold absolute truth. These people give their consent and create political power for those who may not have good intentions, or become seduced and require more power. This spirals into the need for an Enemy, for Christianity must have a Satan.

We read about the witch burnings and events in history that detail this occuring and think we are smarter than they. In 300 years people will read about the invasion of Iraq and whatever results from this event, and think they are smarter than the Americans of early 2000.

ergo the horrors we read regarding genocides, witch burnings, torture, inquisitions, and the rest. We know our history, but we do not learn from it.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 03:10 PM
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well gee, which christian religion we talking about here, anyways....

do they baptise at birth, of at conversion, or some other time?

how do they pray, do they pray in the name of Jesus, or is it in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost....it makes a difference ya know...

and what about the wedding vows, do they make the husband vow to love and protect and keep his wife, and the wife to love, honor and OBEY, her husband?

do they allow their women to speak in church, or to teach...are they permitting women to hold leadership positions.

and what about divorce??

if they even got their feet firmly into our government, I kind of think our country would be in civil war not long afterwards as stupid issues like these would soon become the hot topics of the day!!



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 03:36 PM
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I'll paraphrase the simpsons for a minute... prayer and faith have don't belong in politics. just like facts dont fit with organized religeon!

Where's john lennon when you need him, imagine no countries it isn't hard to do, nothin to kill or die for, no religeon too...

The problem is according to other people on this site that i've read is the country was founded by masons, so were already ruled by a sort of religeous order aren't we? So whats the big deal if a religeous person runs the country?

Didnt jesus say hes kingdom is no part of the world... mabey religeon shouldn't be involved but you konw it buys votes from people. I bet if you could walk around in a politicians head, he doesn't really even believe in a creator...

Here's what should happen, we'll make a deal with the gays and lesbians, they can have all the rights hetrosexuals do if they stop talking about being gay, and we'll stop talking about religeon to everyone else. so we can both be quiet and be very happy!
Problem solved, you can paypal me for solving the worlds problems!



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
With a religious agenda?

Yes. So long as they work within the law, anyone should do anything they want. Of course, they shoudl realize that when they are in office, they represent the people, not the christians alone.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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Frankly, I see no difference between religion and politics..

Both were created to control large populations.
So, why should it matter how much they intermix?



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Yes. So long as they work within the law, anyone should do anything they want. Of course,


That is the problem Politics and religion has become a big issue when it comes to political campaigns.

We already has seen it with the Bush campaign, I feel that even before telling what they can do for the nation and the people they are first born again Christians, have Sunday radio addresses for preaching in the name of the lord and many politicians bring their religious believe or that is what they say before making decisions.

No, I see it more as politicizing religion.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by short
The problem is according to other people on this site that i've read is the country was founded by masons, so were already ruled by a sort of religeous order aren't we? So whats the big deal if a religeous person runs the country?


I wouldn't say we are ruled by a religious order, but I haven't read up much on the masons as of yet. As for a religious person running the country, I have no problems with a religious person being president. It doesn't matter to me if the president thinks he speaks to the Christian God when he prays or if he thinks he's praying to Satan. I don't care. My problem is when the religious zealots try to force feed me their version of religion. Religious people in office is fine, but a religion taking control of the entire country is not. Politics and religion need to stay seperated.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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85% of the citizens of this country are Christian. Over two billion (33%) worldwide. The number of Christians in the three branches of government is probably similar. Been that way for a long time... why so worried now? Christians have been the majority of the population/goverment since 1776... no theocracy yet. Or did I miss a memo; hasn't reached Florida yet?

If somebody rubs us the wrong way - or we don't trust 'em - they don't get our vote, that's how the Republic works. (sans 2000 of course
) What has this uber evangelical government (these guys run just about everything now and have been for a good while) done to usher in the new theocracy... outside of so-and-so's personal beliefs?



Elsenorpompom
Our founders wanted to ensure that Religon never got into politics....when religon gets into politics history has shown that said government tends to eventually becaome Authoritarian


You've got that exactly backwards, no? The founders wanted to keep the government from interfering with the church. That's why we left the land of fish-n-chips after all, was it not? Vice-versa works too of course but people seem to have switched the burden, IOW if only it wasn't for religion(s) government(s) would be swell. Seems naive imo.

Were you guys worried about this when Clinton was in office (not baiting ya'll - fwiw I voted for Clinton) Do you guys actually worry about this, seriously? I, like most Christians, would not want a theocracy... can you guys cite some examples of modern Christian theocracies for me so I know what to look out for? Do any of you honestly think this could ever happen here? Or will this conspiracy theory go away with this administration? I'd say the latter especially if the Dems win in '08. True?

Source: Religion stats

[edit on 20-7-2006 by Rren]



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 07:10 PM
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Its not about Christians seeking political power. They have a right to engage in politics like anyone else.

Its the use of political power to further religous political agendas that needs to be curtailed, or the formation of public policy on the basis of Christian dogma without consideration of the numerous other religons.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 06:27 AM
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Well, take the UK House Of Lords (which is unelected), it has 26 Spirtual Lords (it use to be more, they had the majority at one point). These 26 include, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Archbishop of York, the Bishop of London, the Bishop of Durham, and the Bishop of Winchester (the five most powerfulist members of the Church of England).

By being in the house, they can get involved in policy, have a say and (i think) they can even vote aswell. The Church of England is a political think tank aswell, it publish reports that presents policies (that the government can adopt) and can criticise the government too. (which the recent one has). The Archbishop of Canterbury (Head of the World Wide Anglican Church and the Church of England) is very political, plus he gets involved in political debates and even speaks regularly through the media about politics.

Plus, the Catholic Church has been consulted by the government regarding issues like abortion, etc.

So, in the United Kingdom, Christianity already holds power.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 07:14 AM
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it's not Christianity holding power in England....it's Anglican Christianity...as opposed to Catholic Christianity, or Lutheran, Pentacostal, ect. ect. ect.....

I don't know if the loss of power of the Churches in Europe has made a difference, or if it is more that they sent all those followers of those other religions to us and are now all of the official state religion....but at one time, the various demoninations being named the official state religion and given that extra power was the reason for wars and the displacement of alot of people.

I don't mind of a christian, or jew, or any other faithful religious follower wants to become a public servant and runs for political office. but it seems to me that the current crop want the government as a tool to serve them. we are much in the same position as europe was back then, bickering over their various christian denominations, except now we have christians, jews, athiests, islamics, druids, wiccans, animists, shamans, buddhists, and on and on and on......if we begin to favor one religion over the rest, well, we are liable to find ourselves much in the same predicament as Europe did long ago.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 08:07 AM
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Don't even need to think about it.


Matthew 22:15-22
15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted together how they might trap Him in what He said. 16 And they sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any. 17 "Tell us then, what do You think? Is it lawful to give a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?" 18 But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, "Why are you testing Me, you hypocrites? 19 "Show Me the coin used for the poll-tax." And they brought Him a denarius. 20 And He said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" 21 They said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." 22 And hearing this, they were amazed, and leaving Him, they went away.


Studylight

In things that a religious matter, be religious. In things that are a politcal matter, be political. In things that are both, find a stance that is religously political.



posted on Jul, 23 2006 @ 08:10 AM
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posted by Peyres

A Christian nation wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but your right, it wouldn't be great either. [Edited by Don W]


You guys in the UK have it good! Henry VIII solved most of the problems with mixing religion and politics. Or his great daughter, the first Queen Elizabeth, finished the task. (How do you get 2 great leaders in a row?)

America, OTOH, has always had a segment of the population that wanted to be the successors to Oliver Cromwell. Lord Protector! Somehow or other, the 1620 arrivals got the label of seeking religious liberty, when in fact, they had that in England and Holland but wanted to be able to exclude all who disagreed with their vison of the truth. No thanks.



Most Christians I know of, in the UK at least, do not care for heavy Christian involvement in politics. Sure they would love issues like abortion to be tailored to their beliefs, however this isn't simply a religious issues.


Over here, it is much more subtle and more serious, in the long haul. I can’t explain it here but in so many of our local school districts, the Religious Right has dominated. I am not usually a conspiracy buff but this really is one. Textbooks are chosen in a very odd way here. Science is being written out of the books. We can’t make a distinction here between ethics and morals. The future looks bleak to me.



There are atheists who still value life over 'individual choice.' And of course, the Bible warns about this . .


Uh, I detect some “weaknesses” in your approach, Mr Peyres. I’m not aware of any atheists over here who are anti choice. I do not use the preferred label “pro life” because those who claim that high status do not walk the walk, but instead talk the talk. Until those people address the issue of 27,000 children who die every day around the world, I label them as “phoney.”



Most realize that there is a limited scope to which Christian politicians could really achieve a Christian society.


Sweet Jesus, have you forgot why Charles I lost his head? The 100 Years War only to be followed by the Thirty Years War? Haven’t we seen enough of “Christian societies?” we had that for 1,000 years and it has been barely 300 years we began to break loose from that. I for one don’t want to go back and I dread having to do it all over again. Get rid of the zealots. Beware of people who take religion seriously.



[edit on 7/23/2006 by donwhite]



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