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Originally posted by mindtrip02
.it says directly in the bible, do not chant
what do the catholics do walking down there halls in their churches. THEY CHANT. and repeatedly do it...
" thou shalt not worship any gods before me"
and what do they do.. they call the pope " the father" and bow down to him as if he was god.
3. another commandment... " thou shalt not worship and graven idols"
now it seems to me that all those statues in the catholic churches seem to be " idols"
this is not what the church is about. the flaunt money and place in society, it is about worshiping god, the father.
Acts 10:25And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
Revelation 22:8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Originally posted by Shortness
Do catholics really ONLY worship the triune God as you put it Nygdan?
Consider this bible text
how does this justify the many images of people kneeling and "venerating" Pope John Paul II or Benedict?
How does it justify catholics vacationing to St. Peter's Basilica and kissing the worn out foot of his statue?
How does that justify people adorning and kissing the pope's hand?
I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
if an angel of God refuses to be kneeled down, how much MORE should a pope refuse anyone who falls down at their feet when meeting the pope?
"no that's not worshiping, thats venerating" anyone else think thats doublespeak?
Come on, kissing the feet of a statue isn't idolatry?
Someone's idea of idolatry must be pretty bogged down to consider these acts NOT idolotrous.
So when the greeks have thier athena statues and artemis statues on the pedastal, and they come and pray to/ask them to pray for us or whatever, how is it any different when catholics go to mary statues or pope statues and kneel down and pray to it, or give flowers to it, or something of that nature?
If i kneel down on my knees, and ask Jesus to forgive me of my sins... wouldn't you consider that's me praying to Jesus right?
Now, if i kneel down on my knees, and ask Mary to pray for me.... wouldn't that mean i'm praying to mary to pray for me? "nuh-uh, we're not praying to mary, we're asking her to pray for us" Round and round we go.
i mean just look at some of the images and tell me that isn't idolatry?
thou shalt not bow down thyself to them[...]you're not suppose to bow down to any statue, to any pope, regardless if you aren't worshipping the statue or pope. God does not want you kneeling before it or bowing down to it. WHY???
And yet with all these biblical references, i'll be called an anticatholic bigot.
Originally posted by Shortness
You're kidding right? If you think God did not care about the act of kneeling down as a form of worship, why did Shadrach, Mishach, and Abednego refused to kneel down before an idol, EVEN IF THEY DIDN't WORSHIP THEM?
They could of easily used your argument "Because they don't worship it as god" and kneel before the statue and it would of been okay. But they simply refused to do even that.
And why was it so important that the Holy Spirit would include this story in the bible?
No catholic i know have said, i worship the pope, or i worship mary.
But that's the way the devil operates.
Originally posted by mindtrip02
does any one else think that its odd, that the one religion that is supposed to be the " right religion" and the " one true religion"...
Originally posted by Nygdan
So, let me get this straight. The only way to the father is through jesus, and you must beleive in jesus as saviour to save your soul. BUT, if you kneel in front of a statue, even if you don't beleive in it as a god, and only accept jesus as saviour, you're doomed?
The jews didn't kneel before the statue because they didn't beleive in it and were supersitious. THe old testament has prohibitions against kneeling before statues because thats how peopel worshiped their gods in those times.
Its pretty odd to say that the saving power of jesus is defenseless and weak against inanimate statues that people kneel in front of.
They also don't eat cheeseburgers and all other kinds of silly things.
The jews included it in their collection of stories, because in their time thats how people worshipped.
Then this should've been your first hint that catholics don't worship the pope or mary.
Again, rather odd to say that the devil is more powerful than jesus or god. That a person can have absolute faith in jesus as saviour, and still be snatched be the devil for kissing the pope's ring or praying before a statue of a saint.
We the Archbishops and Bishops of Ireland, prostrate at the feet of your Holiness, humbly offer you our warmest congratulations on the occasion of the Golden Jubilee of your ordination to the priesthood… our thoughts go back to that great event fifty years ago by which your Holiness was taken from amongst men and appointed for men in the things that pertain to God, was made a minister of Christ and a dispenser of His mysteries, received power over the real and mystical body of our Saviour and became a mediator between God and man - another Christ." Address to Pope Pius Xll in 1949
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Originally posted by Marid Audran
does anyone else here think that mindtrip is prejudiced and ignorant?
Yes. Completely. Yet another 'I don't know what I'm talking about but I hate
what I think the Catholic Faith is' post.
Since he said at the end of his anti-catholic rant 'help me out'; I will.
The one thing you should know is .. you got it ALL wrong. ALL of it. If you
really want to know what the Catholic faith believes and why then start at
this site and read the entire library and go get a Catechism and read.
www.catholic.com...
Oh .. and you might as well give up the Jack Chick tracts. They are wrong
and trash as well. There .. I helped you out. Now go learn ...
BTW .. Mindtrip2 just registered a few days ago ... I gotta wonder if he's a
reincarnation of some previously banned anti-Catholic fanatic. Mindtrip ...
been hanging out at tribfarces.com?? Just wondering.
[edit on 7/17/2006 by FlyersFan]
Originally posted by mindtrip02
the only religions that i know of that actually say that, is the catholics and the mormons.
shortness
You should question God about it, its HIS LAW, thou shalt not bow down to them. PERIOD
The jews didn't kneel before them BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE 10 COMMANDMENTS!
How exactly is Jesus suppose to save us when we can't follow a commandment, DO NOW BOW DOWN TO THEM.
cheeseburgers didn't exist back then.
Or maybe he used it as an example so that we would follow in it?
because i was under the impression that they were doing it out of ignorance/quote]
The very suggestion is nonsense. People kneel before kings, that doesn't mean that they worship that king. They kneel in church, and in front of them are statues, presists, laymen, etc, they're not worshiping anything other than god.
But if they are exposed to bible proof and make a conscious decision to continue in praying to mary and dead saints after being exposed to the truth, than God can't saved them from it.
The bible says no such thing. It requires that people worship god, and only god. Thats what catholics do.
You said the pope is not god?
Correct, the pope is not god. No catholic in the world beleives that the pope is god.
of course i can give you a whole plethora of quotes from popes and church fathers claiming blasphemous things,
Who gives a damn?
revelmonk
mormons and catholicism have (probably others also) have been linked to satanist and cultist practices.
Christians engage in satanic acts and cult practices, ok, good, so we're clear on that. Christians are evil, accoording to you.
is a requirement to go through catholicism before you can join the church of satan
This, in fact, is a lie.
[edit on 24-7-2006 by Nygdan]
Originally posted by mindtrip02
does any one else think that its odd, that the one religion that is supposed to be the " right religion" and the " one true religion" is the most dominating and hypocritical religion there is???here are just some of the things i came up on my own, maybe you guys could help me out with some other ones i havent thought of yet...
1.it says directly in the bible, do not chant ... what do the catholics do walking down there halls in their churches. THEY CHANT. and repeatedly do it...
2.now this one is a commandment... " thou shalt not worship any gods before me"
and what do they do.. they call the pope " the father" and bow down to him as if he was god.
3. another commandment... " thou shalt not worship and graven idols"
now it seems to me that all those statues in the catholic churches seem to be " idols" they bow to them, they pray to them, they even adorn them with wreathes.
4. in the bible is also says to not care of for earthly possesions. when you see the pope and the men in the papacy, what are they wearing? jewelry everywhere, gold adornments on their gowns and gold crowns... now isnt that the reason that jesus tore down the temple in the first place, he said , ( not exact) , this is not what the church is about. the flaunt money and place in society, it is about worshiping god, the father.
to worship god it can be in your own home.. because religion and spirit of such things as god is in your heart...
those are the only ones that i could think of right now. help me out if you could
im out
-mindtrip02
[edit on 14-7-2006 by mindtrip02]
[edit on 14-7-2006 by mindtrip02]
Mod Edit: cap title
[edit on 17-7-2006 by kinglizard]
Originally posted by chief_counsellor
No other Christian church can trace their history back to the time of Christ, other that the Catholic church.
www.sundayschoolcourses.com...
The basic legend regarding Joseph of Arimathea, and the establishment of the first Christian Church in Glastonbury, Somerset, England goes something like this:
- In the year 63 A.D. (or, possibly, earlier) Joseph is sent by the Apostle Philip from Gaul to England, with 11 (or 12, in some accounts) disciples, one of whom is his son Josephes
- Joseph lands in the British west country (Somerset), and is granted some land on the Island of Yniswitrin ("Isle of Glass") by a local King, Arviragus
- He places his staff in the ground on Weary-All hill, and a hawthorn bush (the "Holy Thorn") grows on the spot
- Joseph & his followers create an ascetic community
- At the bidding of the archangel Gabriel, they build a church of daub and wattle in honor of the Blessed Mary, 31 years after the resurrection of Christ. The church is built on the site that will later become the great Benedictine monastery of Glastonbury (Glastonbury Abbey is also associated with being the burial place of King Arthur).
- After the death of King Arviragus, his son and grandson (Coillus and Marius, respectively) grant 12 additional hides of land (about 120 acres per hide) to Joseph and his followers
- Joseph brought with him (variously) two cruets "filled with blood and sweat of the prophet Jesus", collected when Joseph took Jesus down from the cross, or the Cup from the Last Supper (a.k.a. the Holy Grail, or the Sangreal)
- After the death of Joseph and his followers, the site is abandoned, but the church remains standing, to later be restored (possibly, in 170 A.D. by legendary papal missionaries Faganus and Deruvianus)
....Thus, the claims of the papacy to be descended from the first apostolic church could be called into question.
And did those feet in ancient times...
There is one more legend associated with Joseph of Arimathea that should be briefly explored, if for no other reason than its popularity. This is the legend that Joseph brought the boy Jesus to Cornwall and/or Somerset one or more times. This legend can't be directly traced to early histories or Medieval romances, although it appears that William Blake refers to it in his famous poem "Jerusalem" (see below).
The Bible is, of course, rather mysterious about the events that happened in the life of Jesus between the ages of 12 and 30 (when he began his ministry). As a result, many people have attempted on their own to define what happened in those lost years. India, North America, and England have all been posited as possibilities for where Jesus might have traveled as a youth/young adult. The Biblical references usually quoted to set the stage for theories regarding the travels of Jesus between the ages of 12 and 30 include:
- Luke 4:16/22 - Jesus preaches in Nazareth, where he doesn't seem immediately known, thus giving the impression that he had been away for a long time.
- John 1:29/31 - John the Baptist, although a relative of Jesus, seems not to recognize him when they meet in the river Jordan, thus causing some people to think that Jesus had been absent from Israel for a long time.
- John 1:29/31 "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel." (NIV)
The legends connecting Jesus and Joseph with Cornwall/Somerset go something like this:
- There is an Eastern tradition that Joseph was the Uncle of Mary, Mother of Jesus
- Further tradition states that Joseph was a merchant in the tin trade that flourished between the west coast of England, and Europe and the Mediterranean
- On one or more occasions, the legends state that Joseph brought his grandnephew Jesus with him on business trips to the mines in Cornwall/Somerset
- On one of those trips, Jesus and Joseph built the church in Glastonbury (later to be used by Joseph and his followers after the death and resurrection of Jesus). Jesus dedicated the church to his Mother (the niece of Joseph of Arimathea).
As stated earlier, there are no direct early historical, or even literary references to these legends. The earliest reference of any kind may be in William Blake's famous poem, "Jerusalem", which is now a much-loved hymn in England (watch the last 10 minutes of the movie "Chariots of Fire" to hear it sung):
Jerusalem
And did those feet in ancient times
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the Holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark Satanic mills?
Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of Fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till I have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.
- William Blake, 1757-1827