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Originally posted by Nygdan
On apostolic succession, I think that there are two ways of looking at it. One is that jesus was being literal when he said that peter is the rock of the church, that peter, once jesus was gone, was the leader.
Originally posted by Shane
Originally posted by chief_counsellor
No other Christian church can trace their history back to the time of Christ, other that the Catholic church.
I trust the Following will correct this assumption, since it clearly is not the case.
As stated earlier, there are no direct early historical, or even literary references to these legends. The earliest reference of any kind may be in William Blake's famous poem, "Jerusalem", which is now a much-loved hymn in England (watch the last 10 minutes of the movie "Chariots of Fire" to hear it sung):
Just thought you may find this of interest.
[GLESTINGABURH; called also YNISWITRIN (Isle of Glass) and AVALON (Isle of Apples)]
Benedictine monastery, Somersetshire, England, pre-eminently the centre of early Christian tradition in England. Though now thirteen miles inland from the Bristol Channel, it was anciently an island encircled by broad fens, the steep conical hill called Glastonbury Tor rising therefrom to a height of about four hundred feet. Thus, difficult of access and easy of defence, it formed a natural sanctuary round which has gradually clustered a mass of tradition, legend, and fiction so inextricably mingled with real and important facts that no power can now sift the truth from the falsehood with any certainty.
It goes on, and is quite interesting.
The first impression produced on a modern mind by William of Malmesbury's pages is that the whole is one barefaced invention, but on this point the late Professor Freeman may be quoted as an unbiased authority (Proc. of Somerset Archæological Soc., vol. XXVI): "We need not believe that the Glastonbury legends are facts; but the existence of those legends is a great fact.… The legends of the spot go back to the days of the Apostles. We are met at the very beginning with the names of St. Phillip and St. James, of their twelve disciples, with Joseph of Arimathea at their head,… we read the tale of Fagan and Deruvian; we read of Indractus and Gildas and Patrick and David and Columb and Bridget, all dwellers in or visitors to the first spot where the Gospel had shone in Britain. No fiction, no dream could have dared to set down the names of so many worthies of the earlier races of the British Islands in the Liber Vitæ of Durham or Peterborough.
GLASTONBURY ABBEY occupies what is believed to be the site of the first Christian Church building in the world. The original church was built of wattles, and its size was probably the same as the Tabernacle in the Wilderness.
Eusebius (A.D. 260-340), Bishop of Caesarea and the Father of Church History after the sacred Canon closed, says: "The Apostles passed beyond the Ocean to, the Isles called the Britannic Isles."
Gildas, the British historian (A.D. 516-570) says: "Meanwhile, these islands received the beams of light - that is, the Holy precepts of Christ, the true Sun - at the latter part, as we know, of the reign of Tiberius Caesar." 'As we know' seems to refer to a generally accepted knowledge.
This date would be at the latest A.D. 37, some four years after the Crucifixion.
This fits in with the decision of the Councils of Basle, Pisa and Constancethat the British Bishops took precedence of the French and Spanish because Our Church was founded immediately after the Passion of Christ.
Aristobulus, the fellow worker of St Paul, was associated with Glastonbury; there is testimony from the Eastern Church that Aristobulus was the first Bishop of the Britons, and that St Paul chose him as such.
St Paul appointed Aristobulus (Rom. 16:10) one of the 70 disciples, father-in-law of St Peter, as first Bishop of Britain. St Paul chose him as such.
He also made Linus first Bishop of Rome; Linus was the son of Caractacus, the British King, who was taken prisoner to Rome. And it must have been Linus and Gladys (who changed her name to Claudia on being adopted by Claudius the Emperor) who founded the Church in Rome, as we know that neither St Peter nor St Paul did so.
When St Paul went to Rome as a prisoner he found Linus and Claudia there, both of them Christians from Britain, where they had been converted by Joseph of Arimathea. Hence the British Church is older than the Church in Rome. It is interesting to observe that Pudens, Linus and Claudia are mentioned by St Paul in his Second Epistle to Timothy (4:21), which Epistle the Apostle wrote when he was himself a prisoner in Rome and a friend of these British Christians.
VATICAN CONFIRMATION that JOSEPH of ARIMATHAEA (the VIRGIN's uncle) went to ENGLAND and continued the Conversion of the BRITISH.
(It had already been STARTED by Jesus - Himself).
"Britain, partly through Joseph of Arimathaea, partly through Fugatus and Damianus, was of all kingdoms FIRST TO RECEIVE THE GOSPEL." (Even before Palestine).
The antiquity of the British church had been challenged by the ambassadors of Spain and France before the Roman Catholic Council of Pisa (A.D. 1417). The British (catholic) delegates Robert Hallam, Bishop of Salisbury, Henry Chichele, a former Archbishop of Canterbury and Thomas Chillendon, won the day, the council affirmed that the British church (not the Church of England and not catholic because it was pre-catholic) was the first Christian church (community).
The VATICAN MANUSCRIPT quoted by Baronius in his "Ecclesiastical Annals A.D. 35", (the same year in which the Acts of the Apostles state that all, except the Apostles, were scattered abroad from Judaea) records that in this year Lazarus, Maria Magdalene, Martha, her handmaiden Marcella, Maximin a disciple, Joseph the Decurion (Roman Minister for Mines) of Arimathaea, against all of whom the Jewish people had special reasons for hatred, were exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles, and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britain, and after preaching the Gospel there, died (and was buried). Other sources report that there were a total of 14 people in the vessel.
Originally posted by Rockpuck
I am not sure what you are proving here Shane.. that the Catholic church was not actually the first church?
Originally posted by chief_counsellor
From what I've read on the NewAdvent.org site, this was a Benedictine Monastary, which is in fact Catholic.