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Chechen warlord killed

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posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 09:30 AM
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news.bbc.co.uk...

the chechen warlord 'basayev' has been killed,

this is the nutter that killed many women and children in the shocking scenes displayed on tv in 2004 after taking a school hostage..

thank god, another turd out of the way.




posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 09:32 AM
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[edit on 10-7-2006 by sanctum]



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz
I recommend you visit ogrish.com and look at all the mass graves of his dead country men and women.


any chance of a direct link here please??..there is a lot of info to go through there..thanks.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 09:41 AM
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I wont post the real graphic ones but the only real reason this # ever happen was due to crap the russians did wrong, in a documentry done by BBC I think they went inside the group and interviewed the leader and members, they all lost family to the Russians when they thock over htere villages and towns, raped there women and throw there bodys into mass graves and such.

mosnews.com... There are 52 mass graves in Chechnya, the local government admitted.

www.guardian.co.uk... Chechen government admits civilians buried in mass graves



Nurdi Nukhazhiyev, the chairman of the Chechen government committee for civil rights, said most of the dead were civilians killed in the past five years, many the victims of Russian military operations.


This is just a few, actually go out and research this yourself its best way to understand the true war with chechnya and the freedom fighters there.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 09:57 AM
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See its things like this that cause people to rebel..there are not many in this situation that wouldn`t rebel...but another point(not mine)..one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Heratix
See its things like this that cause people to rebel..there are not many in this situation that wouldn`t rebel...but another point(not mine)..one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.


Yeh thats the point I try to get across, he may be a terrorist in our eyes, but if we see his side of the story he is fighting for freedom and revenge. He doesnt know if the Russians really meant it, but theres few things one man can do againts a big country like Russia they can easily just destroy all the people chechnya and the world wouldnt even care since they are muslim, I dont see those insurgents in Iraq screaming about Chechnya makes me wonder.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 10:24 AM
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Yeh thats the point I try to get across, he may be a terrorist in our eyes, but if we see his side of the story he is fighting for freedom and revenge. He doesnt know if the Russians really meant it, but theres few things one man can do againts a big country like Russia they can easily just destroy all the people chechnya and the world wouldnt even care since they are muslim, I dont see those insurgents in Iraq screaming about Chechnya makes me wonder.


anyone that uses children and women as hostages is a coward and should be destroyed.

terrorism doesnt solve terrorism.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by optimus fett
anyone that uses children and women as hostages is a coward and should be destroyed.

terrorism doesnt solve terrorism.


So what would you do in his situation? Go out and protest and be sent to a prison in siberia?



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz

So what would you do in his situation? Go out and protest and be sent to a prison in siberia?


Then I guess that you believe he did a good thing by going after the women and kids at the school then fighting Russian soldiers eh?



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz

So what would you do in his situation? Go out and protest and be sent to a prison in siberia?


Then I guess that you believe he did a good thing by going after the women and kids at the school then fighting Russian soldiers eh?


The whole point was to get the world to listen, seems the only time media focusing on anything important is if some one is getting shot or therse a hostage taking with kids involved. In one sense it was a risk they had to take, I am not even sure the other rebels agreed with this move but since it was very unique situation you wouldnt ever know why he even did it.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz

The whole point was to get the world to listen, seems the only time media focusing on anything important is if some one is getting shot or therse a hostage taking with kids involved.


Yeah the world listened and we just saw what happened and the aftermath of it. I could post a couple of articles about that event from the Arab world. It sure didn't win hearts and minds to the rest of the world. But its a risk they willing to take as you mentioned. If you were a freedom fighter, how would you do it? Take hostages at school or on a train or a plane?



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
Yeah the world listened and we just saw what happened and the aftermath of it. I could post a couple of articles about that event from the Arab world. It sure didn't win hearts and minds to the rest of the world. But its a risk they willing to take as you mentioned. If you were a freedom fighter, how would you do it? Take hostages at school or on a train or a plane?


Well since our education and what we see is not censored to bad (we actually have free libraries thank god), I have read Sun Tzu's art of war, and countless other books such as those on assassins and Spec ops (which I am big fan of). I understand that taking that school is a common mistake by freedom fighters, in the mind of the rebels it was "this is going to get the world to listen to our message". But in return it just made the world only see that there attacking kiddies and harmless civilians and taking hostages, and we are brainwashed to never listen to a terrorist of course. So its a common mistake and most widely thought up of. These guys are not hardcore killers really, they are just ticked off to the max rebels who just want the world to understand what was going on in chechnya.

I would form a team of ninja really, and I am not messing with you, we live out in the wilderness for 3 years and train, and then we attack the Russians where it hurts most, out numbered and out guned, with the proper tactics and education and knowledge I would try to pass on to the other members we would really cripple them. Amazingly people lack Patience, and the Russians do to, since they had a time limit to take over and get the chechnyan people under control and they freaked out and they just shot alot of people. Really its sad event and others who had nothing to do with it will suffer for it, only if someone with enough skill and brains could take control of the rebels and focused more on training and hiding out for a few years prepairing for a massive strike it would injure the russians where the evils coming from.

You could even build up a better force by waiting to. insteed of throwing your life away, CIA invented the cult of sucide bombings for this reason. The evil powers in this world know that a sucide bomber is better then a highly skilled rebel/assassin/gunman to them, because the person can keep killing his enamys under his blood runs out. If you read history theres some guys who fight against the odds and are out numbered like crazy amount and end up having there kill ratio higher then the amount of hairs on a apes body. Usually a Hero as some might call em, but they are really erased from the books, but some make it through, my favorite in china is WONG FEI HUNG, and a few others. Just the CCP made history up and now WONG FEI HUNG is just a actor, he was not he was actual hero to the chinese people.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz]



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz
So what would you do in his situation? Go out and protest and be sent to a prison in siberia?


I'm not sure what I would do, but I know that I would not turn into the one thing that I am trying to fight....killing of innocent women and children. And these women and children are not casualties of war, they are murder victims killed by some 'warlord' that is, imo, fighting a just cause, but definately going about it the wrong way.

Basayev got what he deserved.

One down, two million to go.

Sporty

Note: I'm really SportyMB....this is just a temp member name


[edit on 10-7-2006 by SportyMB2]



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB2
I'm not sure what I would do, but I know that I would not turn into the one thing that I am trying to fight....killing of innocent womena and children. And these women and children are not casualties of war, they are murder victims killed by some 'warlord' that is, imo, fighting a just cause, but defiantely going about it the wrong way.

Note: I'm really SportyMB....this is just a temp member name


Well I say they just used the wrong tactic, if it even was one. Then again Russians gased 300 of there own people in a theather. Its hard to point fingers at these guys though, because this is what the Russians did to them, so in there minds it no different, I read a interview saying that what happen at the school was minor compared to things he saw the Russians do.

Please all watch this documentry video.google.com...

I think you will all get the picture better with video and such.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz]



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz
Please all watch this documentry video.google.com...


I can't view the video....just another downside to having government controlled Chinese internet.

Sporty



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by optimus fett
anyone that uses children and women as hostages is a coward and should be destroyed.

What about Chechen Children killed in First and Second Chechen War?


Casualties

On June 26, 2005, Dukvakha Abdurakhmanov, a deputy prime minister in the Kremlin-controlled Chechen administration, said about 300,000 people have been killed during two wars in Chechnya over the past decade; he also said that more than 200,000 people have gone missing.

How many of those 500,000 people Slaughtered by the Russian Army were Children?


terrorism doesnt solve terrorism.

Exactly;

But a Brutal Invasion gives birth to Brutal Resistance.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah


Casualties

On June 26, 2005, Dukvakha Abdurakhmanov, a deputy prime minister in the Kremlin-controlled Chechen administration, said about 300,000 people have been killed during two wars in Chechnya over the past decade; he also said that more than 200,000 people have gone missing.

How many of those 500,000 people Slaughtered by the Russian Army were Children?


terrorism doesnt solve terrorism.

Exactly;

But a Brutal Invasion gives birth to Brutal Resistance.


Yes see you know the facts, thanks for backing up the truth on this.


Originally posted by SportyMB2

Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz
Please all watch this documentry video.google.com...


I can't view the video....just another downside to having government controlled Chinese internet.

Sporty

I sent you a U2U maybe I can help you around the fire wall or just send you the file which might be safer since I dont want you getting taken away by the internet police.

Also hey guys I dont think the leader is dead, he has died five times now, he has 1 more life left.

Duby78 just posted this but it was locked but he brought up some good info on this.


Oct 2005
March 2005

After seeing some interviews with the guy I feel bad for him dieing, he was only one who had the balls to fight the russians face on and turn down a deal that would require him to betray his people and he would of been rich and powerful untill he was assassinated.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz]



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 04:22 PM
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Yeah, he was 'killed' quite a few times. What do you people think, did Russians get him this time? I wouldn't bet on it.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
How many of those 500,000 people Slaughtered by the Russian Army were


That number would make about 50% of prewar Chechen population. However with about 40% evacuated during the war, and at least 600,000 remaining in the republic after the war- these numbers do no add up.

Can you source this statistic because it seems highly unrealistic and misleading.

In 1991 there were about 1 million people in Chechnya I believe. Out of those, about 35% were ethnic Russians. When the Chechen separatists started pushing for independence, Russia did not interevene at first. It didn't start out as a peaceful take over either, as the first move by Dudayev was to kill the former leader of the region- Vitali Kutsenko, when the rebels stormed the Congress. Then the separatists knew that they would not achieve independence unless the Russian minority is silenced. In 1991 Dusayev and the rebels started an ethnic cleansing of the Russian minority. Soon they started raiding nearby Russian bases and warehouses for weapons, while Russia didn't yet interfere. In order to obtain needed funds, Chechnya became a warlord state in 1992- with major drug smuggling and weapon smuggling operations there carried out byt he rebels. It appeared to be turning into another Taliban regime, so Russia decided to interefere.

Russian interference was justified by many reasons:

1. Killing and forced migration of ethnic Russians by Dudayev's rebels.

2. Raiding of army posts of the Russian Federation.

3. Massive drug and weapon smuggling operations throughout the anarchy state.

4. If Chechnya was allowed to break off, nearly every of the 80 or so Russian provinces (regions) should be allowed to do the same- thus you would have 80 small, weak, poor nations, which would become threatened by neighbors like China. There is a reason why US fought the civil war between North and South. This is the same situation. You cannot allow the state as a whole to break apart because some minority wants to be independent.

How would US react if texas suddenly decided to declare its independence. Then forced everyone in Texas to speak Spanish. Then raided American military bases still there. Then started killing off those who do not agree with its independence.
-Yeah that was what Russia was facing.

So those of you supporting every and any freedom movement, please sign my petition to make Langhorne, Pennsylvania, an independent Socialist Republic, where everyone has to be Christian or has to get out.


Chechnya was not a peaceful state. it was an intolerant warlord regime, that seeked to join the likes Iran and Taliban. If it went about differently in those first years, like other currently-independent nations, it might have gotten its independence.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by maloy]



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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As for this degenerate Basayev- it is a shame to call this pig a freedom fighter.

Dudayev and Maskhadov might be considered freedom fighters in some sense. They organized the whole resistance. They planned the future state. They even agreed on several occasions to hold talks with Moscow.

But when the original separatists saw that they are going to lose the war- they turned to their last hopes- extremist Islam. While Dudayeva nd Maskhadov wanted a rather secular state at first, Basayev always pushed for extremism and building the Halifat in Central Asia. Because of him Al Quida helped the rebels, and they received billions of dollars from Muslim funds all over the world. He was also the one who pushed for turning the resistance to fight against Russian civilians.

It is one thing to attack soldiers (but you also have to remember that Russians were forced to fight by the draft, unlike American army in Iraq who are pure mercenaries). it was Basayev's idea to attack Pervomayskoye, bomb apartments in poor section of moscow city, take hostages in the theater and in Beslan, and many more attacks on civilians. If anyone out of the Chechen rebels deserved to die- it is Basayev. Similarly to him, Barayev and Khattab (his friends and warlords in Chechnya) were the worst figures to come out oft he war- now dead luckily. They became a millonaire through kidnappings of Western journalists and aid workers. They beheaded 5 British aid workers. Soon they gave up fighting for independence, and turned the resistance into a business.

By the Second Chechen war, all the rebels wanted to do is create regional chaos. They attacked neighboring peaceful Rebublics like Dagestan and Ingushetia. They turned Chechnya into warlord state with main industries being kidnappings, drug smuggling, and weapon smuggling.


I have to admit I did not support Russian tactics in either war in Chechnya. I was against the assassination of Maskhadov. I was against what the Russians did to Chechen civilians. But I am also against the rebels who went on fighting for their Halifat knowing perfectly well that that would lead to many casualties among their people.


Here are some dossiers about these so called "freedom fighters" -by the way I bet someone somewhere also called Hitler a freedom fighter.

Basayev: www.diacritica.com...

Barayev: www.diacritica.com...

Khattab: www.diacritica.com...




[edit on 10-7-2006 by maloy]





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