We live forever?! Forever?!

Originally posted by mrwupy
"believing that there is no life after death is the ultimate in optimism."

There is no life other than when we are in the third (maybe fourth) dimensions because the concept doesn't hold water higher up. We are spirits in a body and this is why we can experience the world. If it were not for the chains holding us down we would be flying somewhere in some faroff galaxy, perfecting existence and searching for the light. Now this is the same idea we have of going on vacation, kicking back for a few days, and then making a resolution to do whatever on the return home. The soul's return home is the journey to First Source at the center of the SuperUniverse where beings that created (Humanoids) us will reveal certain aspects of our Being. We are their past, they are our future, we are them they are us etc. Ok more on this later I feel a little disjointed...

The human body is merely a cast shell... a vessel
an animatable organic figure, thru which our spirit interacts with this world...

energy cannot be destroyed, only change forms...

the soul is our energy, without it, the human body is merely a lifeless corpse...
we are attached to it, at birth, and even astral travelers dont ever lose a connection (thread) to the body...

Originally posted by active7288
ok so i just got done with the previously mentioned NDE article above.. and had a thought:

what if the reported light at the end of the 'tunnel' when near death, is actually the light from the world for the infant being born?

Yeah...that's an interesting idea...you mean that the light is like the end of the birth canal? That's a good idea, it might fit well as a theme to a short story or something.

I don't personally agree with reincarnation in the sense of "new life," but rather reincarnation as the reintroduction of your organic matter into the universe to be recycled, kind of like a reunification with nature.

I've done extensive research on the Afterlife.
I was raised Methodist and converted to Catholicism. I have had the pleasure of working with many people of many different cultures to many different religions...
I've worked with a lot of Hindu's which to me are all encompassing people.

I will always be a Catholic, it's a Christian way of interpreting life after death, after all, I was raised to believe in Christianity.
Even though I'm Catholic, I truely consider myself a spiritualist.

What needs to happen is the void needs to be filled between physical science and psuedo science.....
We need to find away to bridge that gap.
I will never tell an atheist that he/she is wrong, it's not my place to judge...

But I will say that you mustn't limit yourselves....don't be a lazy atheist, be active.
And definitely be willing to back it up if you decide to post.

My belief is that we are all interconnected and multidimesional.
We loose weight at the point of death (I forgot the exact amount, 21 grams maybe)....
Spiritual essence = mind, memory, personality, soul....
Maybe we take that with us and our brain acts more like a GUI, a way for our essence to perceive things physical.

If we were to actually open our minds up and just say, could there be a possibility that their is life after death? Sure, but when during the timeline of evolution did humans develop a conscience soul....??

Maybe we had them when we started as single cell organisms? And we died and came back as something more developed.... Who knows....

But the mention of "astral" comes to mind....

Our physical make up is not as dense as it seems....

Spritual healing, voodoo, chikra, Jesus, Buddha, posession, spritual guides, ghosts, auras, EVP, reincarnation, etc, etc, etc, it's all related....it all points to one thing....we are all connected...

I'd like to believe that we were given a task, and we were giving a piece of the Universal Soul, and we are all apart of it and our goal is to reach the point where we return that piece of the soul back to it's origin and we do this through trials and tribulations, reincarnation, astral levels, celestial, etc, etc...

Life is a growth process and maybe we learn more and more after going through and double backing into mulitple stages of spiritual growth.

My sister is missing in Florida from a Diving expedition, for those of you who believe in some post mortem consciousness, pray that she finds her way during her transition.

[edit on 7/15/2006 by Drewsillac]

I know exactly what happens after you die! But if I told you...I'd have to kill you.

Reincarnation occurs from Blood since the blood in our veins is the same but 'upgraded' blood that was in our ancestors.... it isn't of the spirit, or soul .. that energy cannot assume the same shape it did to enter into the body, it has to move onto another 'body'

But the concept of living forever is hard to get across to us, because we exist in time.. forever doesn't really exist where we're going.. but neither does 'not forever'.. where we are going they join, they eat eachother.. so-to-speak.. everything that was made after us(not your body) will be destroyed... Time didn't exist before time existed, ... .. like you cannot name something that existed before you, type of thing.
It would be better to think of emotions and concepts as solid beings.. it would help to understand things more..

Originally posted by Techsnow
I've had my mind spinning on this concept for the past week or two and it is starting to change my perception of my reality.

A change in perception is the first step in a very LONG road to enlightenment

The concept was that we live forever and this life is a "break" so to speak in our real life (as a spirit).

Interesting vision, however for the "break" substitute "lesson" and you will be a step closer. Think on that one next time you are contemplating life...

So yes I believe in reincarnation as well as eternal life and I believe everone is only "born" once. I think many of us on Earth are reincarnations while there are also many that are experiencing their very first life.

How long have you believed in reincarnation? Seems you understand more than your question posted here indicates... Yes Earth has many that have been reincarnated.... yes there are many new souls... [a simple look at population growth will show you that is likely]. But Earth.... way out here at the rim of a very unimpressive galaxy.... this is kindergarten... there are very few "old souls" here, some but not many... and those that are, usually become teachers.

IDK how I became reincarnated.. perhaps I claimed the womb of my mother before their was spirit or life in the fetus. Perhaps there are species that clone and we can claim a cloned body before life is present.

Do not worry about it, because your soul has chosen for you, and memories of past life are deliberately blocked so you can focus on the lesson. If you were to spend your life dwelling on what you were before, imagine how that would mess you up. Say for example you were an Emporer last life... and now for what ever reason you are in poverty living in a third world country starving to death and disease ridden... Yes its a drastic example, but you see my point... Why would you come back in poverty? Simple... perhaps to learn humility, perhaps punishment for some deed... thats called Karma... [I would hate to see Hitler's Karma]

Now I have no clue in this body what its like to be a spirit and I don't know if bordome is a reality as spirit. What I am thinking though is that I volunteered for this life as well as everone else did for theirs.

Believe this boredom is the least of your worries as spirit... there is just so much out there to learn in the universe. Humans can barely grasp but a little portion of that. You want to talk boredom? Imagine the Christian "heaven" we see portrayed in main stream media... Angels floating around on clouds playing a harp... for all eternity? Or sitting on a beach? If that is all I have to look forward to ...eternity is a VERY long time] then please pull the plug now....

You may or may not believe this... it is not my purpose to preach... many will pounce on this, but that doesn't matter...I am answering YOUR question...

In a sense you did "volunteer" for this life... but more correctly your soul picked the lesson it needed to learn and placed "you" into a life where you may best learn that lesson. However... and this IS important... you in this carnation... have the ability to choose... you can pass the test or fail... its your choice... at the end on "judgement day" it is you[your soul] that sits in judgement. You get to say "Not bad, I can go on to the next lesson" or "Damn, did I ever mess that uo" and have to repeat the grade. Personally I can't think of a worse hell than having to repeat a grade on this rock.

My question is do you believe that we actually live forever...?

Yes

For me its so hard concept to fathum.

Yes It is supposed to be... nothing worthwhile is ever easy... the harder the struggle is to attain something, the more satisfying and meaningful the result.

... it makes me feel scared.. IDK why.. I think I fear bordome or fear the unkown.

Do not fear it. That is the worst thing to do as fear will consume you and block you from learning.

IF there is life after death, in any form, you will be absolutely certain when you pass from this world... In that case it would be the wisest choice to live your life to the fullest now and learn as much as possible to be prepared for what comes next.

IF Karma is true, and the same goes for Religious beliefs of Heaven vs Hell... You damn well better make sure your life is worthwhile and full, because you will have a lot to answer for.

IF on the otherhand it is true that when you die it is all over... nothing... worm food...then it is a mute point and I would think that you would get off the computer and go REALLY live that life to the fullest.... because that means you only have max a hundred years or less to take advantage of it.

So I don't see the problem. Just experience what life has to offer, make the best of it and be true to yourself. Plenty of time to worry about the grave after.

Also I must add one more thought to this. I think that the longer you have existed the easier it may become to tap into your soul in the physical for hidden knowledge that only your soul would know.

Yes [It seems to me that you know more of this then you are letting on]

Imagine life like school... when you are starting out at grade one... you are not thinking about nuclear physics... you probably couldn't even spell the word...

But think about this for a moment. Do you not know people around you that have natural abilities? Things they have been able to do since a child while the rest take years to master such a skill? I could list examples but I don't think that necessary.

"The older you get the wiser you get" doesn't refer to just this plane. You can tap into your soul fairly easily actually. At night just before falling asleep, concentrate on a though, a question you want answered. It can be anything even as mundane as where did you leave your keys. As you think that , once you fall asleep you release that thought to your subconscious.

Your subconscious will remeber where your keys are LOL, but it also is a dirrect link to your soul for the more ummm important questions. But don't expect instant enlightenment. It doesn't work that way... that would be too easy.


There is a saying out there....

"When a student is ready, a teacher will appear"

This is very true, and very personal. When you are ready... trust me ... you will find the answers. So enjoy the search... there are many intersting things in this universe... and don't let naysayers knock you off the path...



One last little note. I here a lot of talk these days, especially from teens having found their "soul mate". Well if thsi significant other truly was your soul mate there would never be an argument, there would never be a devorce. And you can't just go find another "soul mate'

It takes many lifetimes to find this, and you may even cross paths from time to time before connecting. But when you do you will know... as your soul mate is your other have literally, and you can not be a complete being until you merge...and become one... the oriental doctrines know this... western religion has a long way to go..

Hope that helps And doesn't confuse you more. u2u me if you need some leads to track down

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
The human body is merely a cast shell... a vessel
an animatable organic figure, thru which our spirit interacts with this world...

energy cannot be destroyed, only change forms...

the soul is our energy, without it, the human body is merely a lifeless corpse...
we are attached to it, at birth, and even astral travelers dont ever lose a connection (thread) to the body...

Oh come on now thats way to simplistic.... true yes... but simplistic... it would require people to apply logic to religion and would leave us without these endless debates... then what would we tak about?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
The human body is merely a cast shell... a vessel
an animatable organic figure, thru which our spirit interacts with this world...

energy cannot be destroyed, only change forms...

the soul is our energy, without it, the human body is merely a lifeless corpse...
we are attached to it, at birth, and even astral travelers dont ever lose a connection (thread) to the body...

Oh come on now thats way to simplistic.... true yes... but simplistic... it would require people to apply logic to religion

and would leave us without these endless debates... then what would we tak about?

Why not apply logic, that should be a goal of many people who search. Your post had tons of logic in it....
Logic to religion is a means to justify why you believe something......

Originally posted by Drewsillac
Why not apply logic, that should be a goal of many people who search.

Thats the trouble with these text posts, you can't hear the sarcasm.Even with the Naturally logic is the best course, makes good sense, which is why it eludes most people.

There is a group out there that in their teachings uses the example of a string of light bulbs on a long wire... each light is an individual source of energy... it can shine brightly, be dim, or be shut off... but the energy that runs it is still there, in the circuit. Each electron in that circuit is an individual thing, existing on its own, yet together with all the other electrons it creates the energy flow that keeps the power in the circuit. Today that electron is lighting this bulb... tomorrow another bulb somewhere else.. a brief moment, but never ending.

Take this to mean the circuit is the universe... the electron the self or soul if you will.... billions of "selfs" make up the universe... create its energy... that some call God.. the only difference is that the soul has consciousness...

The phrase "To become one with the universe" means just that all the souls combined into one collective consciousness, and just like the brain... there are different levels

Time for bed To much brain energy... think about the light bulbs

Originally posted by Enkidu

Originally posted by Techsnow
My question is do you believe that we actually live forever...?

There's no indication that anything like yourself - your personality or consciousness - survives death. The energy in your cells is eventually recycled into the rest of the universe, but there's no way you will be aware of that. When you die, the structures you're built of (cells, nervous system, etc.) cease functioning very quickly, so you have nothing with which to sense your environment, nor anything like your functioning brain to make sense of your environment.

Ever had surgery? One second you're lying on the operating table, looking up at the lights, the next you're in the recovery room, trying to put the pieces back together. Being dead is like when you're unconscious under anesthesia. No dreams, no sense of time passing, no nothing. If you could imagine that stretching out for the next infinite number of years, then you'd have a good idea about what death is. A whole lot of nothing.

So if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by Enkidu]

This is why I don't understand how you can not exist withought consiousness forever, in other words "not exist forever" because you can't percieve nothing forover since percieving nothing takes no time at all. An obvious notion, although I've never seen anyone else bring it up. So we must regain consiouness again sometime after we die as a another human or something else on earth or in another dimension or something. Which is why I'm not really worried about death either. I am a bit worried about it though because I don't want to forget the life I'm living in this time when I enter my next since I believe there's a very strong chance it could happen.

[edit on 17-7-2006 by Elimaku]

Originally posted by dnero6911
It would be better to think of emotions and concepts as solid beings.. it would help to understand things more..

Ummmm no I think not.... this concept is very confusing... reincarnated from blood but not our blood but our ancestors blood?

I think I will stick to the spirit and soul method myself...its easier and like Lizzy says, it would be useless to tell you.

Originally posted by Drewsillac
I've done" extensive research on the Afterlife.

Without wanting to offend, how does one do "extensive research on the Afterlife"?
Studying many peoples ideas and beliefs and reaching a common thread or concensus I can see, but research of the afterlife would require you to go there, and return with your report in triplicate.

What needs to happen is the void needs to be filled between physical science and psuedo science.....
We need to find away to bridge that gap.

We have that bridge, its called death. If everyone knew what they were in a previous life it would be utter chaos. Its hard enough to focus on the tasks of this life, without living past lives at the same time. [gets you a paded room if you try to tell anyone anyway]

Astral projection to those who master that gives you "the individual", a VERY good grasp of what its all about, but won't help convince anyone but yourself. [well that's all that REALLY matters anyway... enlightenment is a long and solitary path] But I have met very few people advanced enough spiritually to have mastered that, though many claim they have.

I will never tell an atheist that he/she is wrong, it's not my place to judge...
But I will say that you mustn't limit yourselves....don't be a lazy atheist, be active.
And definitely be willing to back it up if you decide to post.

More should follow this advice, especially now that WWIII seems just around the corner...
But backing up what you post, when it comes to one's belief, is impossible for both sides of the debate. And even if I were to tell you I know exactly what happens, how would I convince you? Seriously what proof would you accept? I mean short of killing you to prove my point?

My belief is that we are all interconnected and multidimesional.
We loose weight at the point of death (I forgot the exact amount, 21 grams maybe)....
Spiritual essence = mind, memory, personality, soul....
Maybe we take that with us and our brain acts more like a GUI, a way for our essence to perceive things physical.

If we were to actually open our minds up and just say, could there be a possibility that their is life after death? Sure, but when during the timeline of evolution did humans develop a conscience soul....??

Maybe we had them when we started as single cell organisms? And we died and came back as something more developed.... Who knows....

Though you tell me you are a Christian, I see in your words a lot of buddhist beliefs as well as Darwinism. Perhaps you need to focus a bit more and it might be easier... but that comes in time.

As Christians believe that God is both the end and the beginnig, that indicates that time as we know it is irrelevant to the soul/spirit, so there is no need for "evolution of the soul" to become conscious. God said Poof here you are, and you will live forever if you believe in Him.... there you go end of story... who are you as a good Christian to doubt hhim [ I mean "you" in general]

If you toss in any form of reincarnation, and evolution, you are mixing apples and oranges and getting mangoes.

Spritual healing, voodoo, chikra, Jesus, Buddha, posession, spritual guides, ghosts, auras, EVP, reincarnation, etc, etc, etc, it's all related....it all points to one thing....we are all connected...

I'd like to believe that we were given a task, and we were giving a piece of the Universal Soul, and we are all apart of it and our goal is to reach the point where we return that piece of the soul back to it's origin and we do this through trials and tribulations, reincarnation, astral levels, celestial, etc, etc...

Life is a growth process and maybe we learn more and more after going through and double backing into mulitple stages of spiritual growth.

Again I see you combining ever belief into one. Its not as simple as that because not everythin, from every belief, can be fitted into a puzzle.

You say you believe its a learning curve, and that we have a task to learn in this life [very true] yet you say the goal is to "give back" the soul to its origin... Let me ask you this... what would be the purpose of learning and advancin if at the end you just "handed it back" end of story... think about it... advancement only has meaning IF the goal is to become something better...

Try looking at it this way... God created us in His image, and gave us the ability to think, and to strive towards enlightenment. So that one day we mak take our place in the Heavens BY HIS SIDE.... The whole worship thing is just to keep the kindergarten kids in line... just like we tell our children about Santa Claus and the Boogeyman... Until the child grows up, you need something to keep them in line... hence all the rules Moses wrote in the Bible... most modern people see most of those rules as plain common sense today...

Our modern version of hell is the same thing. Basically invented bt Dante, used by the Chatholis to literally scare people into belief[if that didn't work there was always the inqusition]


You have no reason to believe what I say, that the soul is eternal, and picks where and when it reincarnates... and its your soul that judges you... whetehr or not you passed the task you assigned yourselve, or failed and have to do it over..

You have no reason, nor I proof that the soul DOES maintain consciousness...

Just think about it... if you are ready to accept truth... when it comes it will FEEL right... then you too will know.

My sister is missing in Florida from a Diving expedition, for those of you who believe in some post mortem consciousness, pray that she finds her way during her transition.

I am sorry for your loss, you have my thoughts and hopes that she does indeed find her way. All I can say is be assured that there are those on the other side that guide you.


Let me relate a personal experience... My father, in Toronto was dying of bone cancer. Near the end he was heavily sedated with morphine, to the point he didn't recognise anyone. My mother called me in Vegas that it was time to come up...

On the way there my father passed away and was pronounced officially dead... my mother and the docter were still there when suddenly after a few minutes [don't know the exact time] my father suddenly awoke, clear headed and said "my son is coming" No one could explain it... he lived another three weeks, they were able to transport him hoem where he passed peacefully.

I cannot make you believe this, but its documented at the hospital. I know there is more after we shed this shell..

Hope that helps a little..

[edit on 17-7-2006 by zorgon]

If I could chime in once again.....

If your heart is a peace with the life you are living and your soul is at peace with your creator. (Whoever you consider that creator to be) then everything else is just icing on the cake.

We can debate about eternity all day long but the simple truth is not one single member on this board knows for a fact what is going to happen when we die. If they say they do know, then you should run from them. Each of us are simply stating what we believe, nothing more.

But what I tell you now I do believe to be true. Make peace with your heart. Make peace with your creator. Enjoy these moments we have together for you onlyhave one true gift to share with this world, the gift of yourself. Everything else will fall away.

Love and light my friends,

wupy

I've been told that we have missions to do in our lives. We choose to come here from the spirit world and typically forget everything from our past. Hopefully we will all leave this world a better place. If you think about the possibility of coming back in another human body somewhere on this planet, it seems wise to want life for all to be better instead of one group constantly wanting to put down another group. I wouldn't be surprised for those that do evil, if they face the possibility of being put into a lake of fire and permanently cease to exist. Now if you want to try to figure out what your mission in life might be, well you have a lifetime to figure that one out.

Originally posted by orionthehunter
Now if you want to try to figure out what your mission in life might be, well you have a lifetime to figure that one out.

Want to know how to find out if your mission in life is over?

Pinch yourself. If your alive its not. (I read this somewhere but forget where)

I still hold it true though. There will always be one more soul you can touch or teach or learn from. Right up until your final breath.

wupy

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by dnero6911
It would be better to think of emotions and concepts as solid beings.. it would help to understand things more..

Ummmm no I think not.... this concept is very confusing... reincarnated from blood but not our blood but our ancestors blood?

I think I will stick to the spirit and soul method myself...its easier and like Lizzy says, it would be useless to tell you.

God, learn how to read, seriously..

I said it is the same blood because it's been passed down through sperm... Think logically here man... Everyone looks at these NEW-AGE things thinking they are SUPER science-fiction, grow up its not out of the ordinary stuff, its common sense..

Our DNA Code which is all of the stored up data compiled, is passed generation to generation as 'evolution' through our sperm, which carries along memories emotions, etc... this is how reincarnation occurs, our spirit/soul energy doesn't return back into sperm and become a baby again, it moves on to another form, not recycled.. the energy is not recycled, if it were recycled the universe would not be expanding..
Now this could be taken the total other way, and it could be the females blood that does this, which is why women are so important

What the heck do you think your spirit and soul are? Great method, not even understanding how it applies to your body or yourself.. making it something that you'll obtain later, and perhaps master or learn fully later.. [sarcasm]lets just work and pay bills till then... Jesus knows what best.. [/sarcasm] People need to bring everything into focus, and into the realm of understanding where every waking moment is a reassurance of your learnings and teachings.

[edit on 20/7/06 by dnero6911]

[edit on 20/7/06 by dnero6911]

Originally posted by imbalanced
If there is more then one universe what are the chances that there would be twin's ?
It is unthinkable to us because the numbers are to big, but there would be.

My point is this....
The universe starts and ends, another one starts and ends...and so on.
When our current universe dies and some point in time a twin will form, then you will be born again. Of course up until that time you would have been dead, so your not aware...so the "time" that pass's to you would be a null.

At least that’s what I believe.

Round of applause Imbalanced!!!

There is another slant on that concept.

Perhaps, we really do live forever, we also die. How can both be possible?

Perhaps when we die, our consciousness simply moves to another reality/universe.

For example, I have a car crash and die, however that was one possible outcome of the scenario. I may have escaped without even a scratch. The possibility that I survive was there no matter how small, the chance still existed.

Quantum mechanics is now beginning to point to the possibility that what we perceive as our reality is only what we choose out of the sea of many possibilities that could/do co-exist in the wider multiverse. So we subconsciously or sometimes consciously choose what universe we exist in.

So my play on the multi-possibilities leading to multiple-universes is that we all live forever, we only cease to exist as a possibility in the other realities.

This concept has also been recently validated as quantum tubular structures have been found within the brain. The possibly function of these tubes is to vibrate at the quantum level.

What does that mean???

It may mean that the Brain is not the creator of consciousness but in fact only a receiver.

Personally I don't believe in GOD as the all seeing and all powerful being that our religions perceive. I do however have a very strong feeling that we are a lot more than the sum of our physical parts. I think all that believe in a religion have this knowledge at the core of there searching for more.

As a scientist I am driven by the deep seated need to know the answers to questions that have not yet been concluded. I wish the scientific community would not shriek and leap back at the idea that we are more than our physical experience. And put in more time thinking about how to test the possibility.

All the best,

NeoN HaZe.

[edit on 20-7-2006 by Neon Haze]

Originally posted by dnero6911
God, learn how to read, seriously..

I read quite well actually, I just don't think your concept is correct... but you say I need to "grow up" because I don't follow your views?

Our DNA Code which is all of the stored up data compiled, is passed generation to generation as 'evolution' through our sperm, which carries along memories emotions, etc... this is how reincarnation occurs, our spirit/soul energy doesn't return back into sperm and become a baby again, it moves on to another form, not recycled..

So I assume you have proof that "this is how reincarnation occurs"? Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide documentation for that? Or is this merely your personal belief?

In all the belief systems in the world that believe in reincarnation I have never seen anyone think the soul is recycled into sperm... the soul doesn't enter the body until the baby breathes. There are times when a soul decides not to enter a new body, perhaps because the body is to frail.. but thats another story..

the energy is not recycled, if it were recycled the universe would not be expanding..

Stars are born, created as it were by the millions daily. Eventually they die, explode and start the cycle again. How far a soul travels through space or time I doubt any one on this planet can give a definitive answer.

Now this could be taken the total other way, and it could be the females blood that does this, which is why women are so important

Seems you are unsure of your own hypothesis here...

What the heck do you think your spirit and soul are?

I KNOW what my soul is... I know where its been, and I have a good idea where its going... having said that, there is absolutely NOTHING I can do to convince you. Spiritual enlightenment is an individual path, NO MATTER WHICH PATH YOU CHOOSE. If people would learn this one fact and stop trying to prove others wrong, the world would find peace... Sadly thats not going to happen. When you are ready for the truth, trust me you will find it.

I would suggest though that sarcastic assumtions of what I or anyone else accepts as facts for one's own development as being incorrect is not a way to get your point across

every waking moment is a reassurance of your learnings and teachings.

Tis not wise to teach, until thou hath mastered the lesson!


[edit on 20-7-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Neon Haze

This concept has also been recently validated as quantum tubular structures have been found within the brain. The possibly function of these tubes is to vibrate at the quantum level.

Do you have a source for this handy? Sounds interesting

I wish the scientific community would not shriek and leap back at the idea that we are more than our physical experience. And put in more time thinking about how to test the possibility.

See now there is the problem with scientists always making assumtions in general terms. I know many in the scientific community that believe in souls and other "non mainstream" thinking. Unfortunately to present theorys gets them ridicule, or branded lunatics..... so they don't call the press. There are actually a lot of those here at ATS... in disquise

If you haven't yet stop in the John Lear posts... he has lots of credentials and some really interesting theories about the soul...