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If you read it properly you will see that i had quoted from your original source of wikipedia (except you left out the bits of information that i included) and also from the Times i included another article, i never once mentioned that the words were from myself...GOD i am not that inteligent and literate.
Source
Going forward, if you post something that is not 100% your own writing or work you must use the QUOTE BOX TAG, post NO MORE THAN 15% of the original (or three paragraphs, whichever is least), and GIVE A LINK TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL. If the work you are posting is not on the internet, from a book for example, you MUST give a credit for that Book ( the title), its Author and Publisher.
You was the person that quoted wikipedia but only felt it right to include the bits you wanted everyone to read.. i just filled in the gaps of the MASTER OF DOUBLETALK
Why thankyou im glad i have made your day, coz the words you originally quoted you or a third party actually copied from wikipedia i was just doing the same.
Along with 52 innocent people!!
and the injustice still carries on today
Let me get this straight...and you work in the Criminal justice System...hum HUM thats says it all in your answere.
mator [Mayor] of London is more worried about scoring cool points with the Muslim community than he is with any real rememberance of the victims and tradgedy.
Originally posted by spymaster
And i still canot get the hang of using multiple quotes
Sminkey.yet again you have outsourced me in every way, one day mate i will get into a debate with you where i have just a slight chance of winning....
i can do no more than just sit back and let this debate take its toll..
or maybe i could use wikipedia and make out i didnt hahahahahah
SAY NO TO THE EURO (JUST FOR SMINKEY) heheheh
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Lets say some right wing Christian nut militia gunned down my husband and other people who were attending a rock concert or strip bar because they were on a holy crusade to wipe out sin and sinners. On the anniversary of their deaths, a bunch of moderate churches got together to have a Christian Culture day, sanction by the town council, to celebrate Christianity and Christian controbutions to the world. How would I feel?
Like I had been slapped in the face. If the moderate Christians truly felt bad about the extremists who gunned down my loved ones, and had any sympathy for my loss, they would choose another day or week close by and allow me and the other families the anniversary to reflect and mourn.
The last thing I would want would be the group that the perpetrators rubbing their culture and religion in my face while I am grieving the loss of loved ones.
Even if the perps WERE extremists and not represenititve of the organization as a whole.
I simply would not want a celebration of any kind on that day, period.
if Christianity was a religon of peace, then why didn't they police themselves better?
Why didn't they show their desire to stop religous hated by rooting out the extremists that give them a bad name?
Call it what you want, I call it insensititvity in the name of political correctness.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Why should they be 'punished' and have their rights curtailed .....
Originally posted by Odium
You take an alarmist view point and nit pick specific events to
create scare tactics and a nation of fear, without any ability to
judge their culture.
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- But that's just it Skadi, you are possibly never going feel good about it no matter what, your POV is always going to be skewed by that personal involvement.
That's why we have systems of impartial law and not political or personal law/vendetta/revenge.
What does this have to do with the law? We are talking about a "festival" on what is a day of mourning. What if the German community decided to have a German cultural festival on the first day of the London Bombing Raids?
If thousands of law-abiding people who had absolutely nothing to do with the outrage are considered to have some sort of tacit connection on the basis of something so vague and general and obviously unconnected like a sharing a religion, even if not the same 'version' of it, that could cause you such outrage then maybe it would be your problem and not theirs.
Why should they be 'punished' and have their rights curtailed to placate a wrong-headed POV?
I didnt say anything about curtailing their rights. I didn't say anything about forbidding a festival. I said its poor taste and insensitive to the victims and families to have it on THAT day. The Muslim community has 364 other days and 51 other weeks in the year to choose from.
In the same way that there was an understandable if general and sweeping irrational hatred for all Germans and Japanese and all things German and Japanese in this country post-war it was still wrong when it came down to it.
And they had a damn good reason to. The Germans killed thousands of civilians in bombing raids of no strategic importance, but designed to hurt. There is nothing irrational about it when you look at the situation at the time.
We did not ban Germans or Japanese from the public arena (in fact we started to to try the opposite and get closer to those countries and peoples so as none of us would ever experience those horrors again).
Again, where did I say we should ban Muslim festivals, hmmmmmmmm? Where did I say Muslims should be banned and stuffed in dungeons out of public view?
- What is the connection here?
The bombers on 7/7 were Muslims. The shooters in my fictitious story were Christians. RELIGION. Now religon is quite irrational.
"the group that the perpetrators" what?
Came from?
They came from the north of England.
Should 'we' stop people from the north of England doing anything public on every 7/7 from now on.....or just the brown Muslim ones?
The group in my example were Americans. Its not a case of nationality. Its about religon and ideology. The bombers did their crimes in the name of Islam. The shooters in my fictional piece did it in the name of Jesus.
And I said NOTHING about stopping people from doing anything public. Again, you obviously either have not read my post or are simply seeing what YOU want to see.
What I have said and still say is that is insensitive and rude of the Muslim community to have a festival on THAT day of all days when they have 364 days of the year to choose from. The timing is deliberate. What the intentions are of the planners of the festival, I cannot say. However, insensitive or not, the Mayor of London just adds insult to injury by promoting this.
Since when does the fact that hundreds of thousands of law-abiding citizens having the same religion as a terrorist equate to them having to hide that from you or anyone else because some might feel their free and open expression of their religion and culture is some kind of "rubbing" the terrorist's "culture and religion in your face" when it is nothing of the sort?
Are you still on your sanctimonious self righteous soapbox?
Since the rest of your post shows that not only do you not read posts but assume that anyone who criticizes anything Islamic must be a Muslim hater who wants all Muslims in jail, Ill make this short and sweet, and hopefully, easy for you to read and comprehend.
I think its rude and tasteless to hold an Islamic Festival coinciding with the day where Muslim extremists blew 60+ people to bits in the name of their god. I thinks its even sicker that the Mayor of London endorses this. It has been only one year since the attacks, and the wounds are still fresh. Time eventually heals. But while the attacks are still fresh in peoples minds and people are without immediate loved ones, I think that Muslims, if they want to show good will, can choose another date to have it.
I did NOT say Muslim festivals should be outlawed. I did not say this one should be outlawed. I am criticizing the rude and tactless timing of this festival, as it shows more a desire for political correctness and appeasement of one group of people than to have some sort of respect for those who still suffer from these attacks.
Its a culture of respect that only flows one way.
Originally posted by Odium
Actually, I can only quote so much from each source. If you would bother to read the Terms of this site you would have seen that:[quote/]
No what you done was to imply with that Tariq Ramadan and Rageh Omaar were both Saints?
You Misled the readers of the thread with only supplying the information you wanted us to read
Granted you did allow the reader to follow the link and read the rest of the article
Originally posted by OdiumSo instead I gave a LINK so people could do their own research on the issue. Furthermore, you excluded to mention EVERY problem that you raises has NO SOURCE. So the information isn't even valid.[quote/]
This information that i supplied which you say isnt even valid was from the same source as you quoted which in turn makes your Original points in-valid.
Originally posted by OdiumI'm involved in more than 52 cases a year, christ I wish I only had to do one a week it'd make my life a lot easier. Yet still, people only want to see those responsible for the crimes convicted and not-innocent people. Be the crimianls Muslims or not.[quote/]
Working on more than 52 so-called crimes a year is nothing to what the the dead , their friends & families, and all the other victims went thru on that day and will NEVER get over.
Dont be so bloody insulting towards these people who had No choice, you get paid to do a job ,so stop winging about it!!!!
Originally posted by OdiumYes, it does I provide a job for people who have been victims of crime.[quote/]
I clearly have got the wrong end of the stick there then? appologies
Originally posted by OdiumSkadi_the_Evil_Elf, the problem you have is that it is an opinion. People thought the idea of a British day, was racist, promoting the wrong idea, would distance the white majority from teh ethnic minorities. When in fact, many of them supported it so much. The point is, what one person thinks is wrong, insensative, etc, is a good idea to another person. Clearly, I do and I am British - born here.[quote/]
SARCASM here Odium but for me and it is only my opinion and i have no references to back it up before you slate me off for it....but
Anyone who turns up at dover will become british within 5yrs..
Originally posted by Odium The problem is, people are not bothering to go listen to what is said but instead are judging them on the fact they are muslims. [quote/]
I havent judged the two men on them being muslim , ive judged them on what i have read (not in books ) but in reports, and i feel they are too extreme and they lie whenever it suits them.
Originally posted by Odium The arguement people are putting forward, especailly against Ken is flawed.[quote/]
No it isnt, he and Galloway have always been right up the Muslim community. There is no way anyone can deny this.
Odium thanks for the help on being able to use the quotes i will try to follow your examples for future reference.
Originally posted by Flyers Fan
When i say that these conferences shouldn't be on 7/7, and that the
mayor shouldn't be involved with them on 7/7, that isn't 'punishing'
or 'having rights curtailed'. All I said was that they shouldn't be on
THAT date.
If they want a festival with the mayor in a spotlighted
event, a different day would be appropriate.
However, the conference tone doesn't indicate that it is a 'take back the day' event.
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
What does this have to do with the law? We are talking about a "festival" on what is a day of mourning.
I didnt say anything about curtailing their rights. I didn't say anything about forbidding a festival. I said its poor taste and insensitive to the victims and families to have it on THAT day. The Muslim community has 364 other days and 51 other weeks in the year to choose from.
There is nothing irrational about it when you look at the situation at the time.
Again, where did I say we should ban Muslim festivals, hmmmmmmmm? Where did I say Muslims should be banned and stuffed in dungeons out of public view?
The bombers on 7/7 were Muslims. The shooters in my fictitious story were Christians. RELIGION. Now religon is quite irrational.
The group in my example were Americans. Its not a case of nationality. Its about religon and ideology. The bombers did their crimes in the name of Islam. The shooters in my fictional piece did it in the name of Jesus.
And I said NOTHING about stopping people from doing anything public. Again, you obviously either have not read my post or are simply seeing what YOU want to see.
The timing is deliberate.
Are you still on your sanctimonious self righteous soapbox?
Its a culture of respect that only flows one way.
You do know that amongst the victims of 7/7 there were Muslims too (some of whom will be taking 'centre stage' at this event?
and just why shouldn't 'they' create and take part in an event that highlights and illustrates their suffering in this too, hmmm?
cos it sure seems like some doing all this 'they' stuff seem to think 'they' have only a highly 'suspect and suspicious' role in all of this, eh?
There is everything irrational in choosing to blame people who had nothing to do with inflicting your hurt on such a flimsy and sweeping basis as a shared nationality or religion.
The clear implication of your comments has been that 'they' - people who are totally innocent of any involvement or meaningful connection with those terrorists - are somehow wrong to stand up and make themselves and their POV heard on that day.
I have no great love of any organised religion but for all that I won't use that kind of absurdly 'broad-brush' as a basis to impugn others.
Which if you extend you analogy to all Christians it simply illustrates just how absurd that kind of 'guilt by (whatever) association' is.
Muslims were victims on 7/7 too you know.
Why should they keep quiet and hide away just in case those who want to try and make this issue revolve around some sweeping and ridiculous point about 'them all having the same religion' can feel better about their ignorant POV.
Sorry if it causes offence and all but the truth of this is far more valuable than some silly grossly wrong-headed attitude and odd POV that would try to make meaningful connections between those innocents (some of whom were also hurt and suffered in the attack) who may share religious background of sorts between themselves and the terrorist bombers themselves.
The point of your criticisms was clear.
You don't like it and you thought it shouldn't happen.
Just because you did not come right out and say 'ban it' on that day doesn't make your preference that they should not any less clear.
Yes it is, precisely.
It is intended to get people talking and aware that Muslims suffered on that day in those attacks too; which seems to be something new to some people.
"sanctimonious"!?
That's just a silly personal attack to avoid answering the point?
It appears that perhaps you are only prepared to recognise 'victim-hood' from only one part of the whole community here.
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
There is not? REALLY? Funny coming from you. Its not the Germans fault they elected Hitler, right? And that the Germans stood by and didn't do a damn thing while the Jews were hauled off to camps? In fact, the Germans were so "disgusted" with Hitler that they only tried to remove him once when they were losing the war badly.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
And as far as my ability to 'judge their culture' or not. It doesn't matter. As i said ... the day isn't about THEM ... it's about the victims and their
families and THOSE are the people that the mayor should be addressing.
It's about THE VICTIMS and THEIR FAMILIES ... and NOT about islamic
festivals and/or conferences. Stating that fact isn't 'creating scare
tactics' ... it's being sensitive to the historical events of that day.
This information that i supplied which you say isnt even valid was from the same source as you quoted which in turn makes your Original points in-valid.
Anyone who turns up at dover will become british within 5yrs..
I havent judged the two men on them being muslim , ive judged them on what i have read (not in books ) but in reports, and i feel they are too extreme and they lie whenever it suits them.
No it isnt, he and Galloway have always been right up the Muslim community. There is no way anyone can deny this.
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
And what about the non-Muslims? The majority of victims were non-Muslim. So basically, they do not count?
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Between silly assumptions and outright distortion there's little point in this exchange.
Not that it stopped you writing a couple of paragraphs about things I didn't say.
It obviously has totally escaped your notice that the one group pretty much invisible in the, several, official events that have taken place to date already are the Muslims.
'They' are tax-payers too, 'they' were hurt in those attacks too and there is no earthly reason why 'they' should not put this in front of those who would deny that and worse add to the outrage of those events by the innuendo that they are somehow less than innocent in this.
'They' are not getting something that others have not gotten.
and your idea of what this 'festival' is going to be like are amusing if someway wide of what I have read.
Lastly your comments on 'collective guilt' are particularly tragic and ironic.
Here's hoping you and yours never suffer being judged by such an outrageous 'standard'.
It also seems to have utterly escaped you that such notions are exactly the kind of 'rational' and basis that the terrorist uses as 'justification' in what they do.
Good day.
Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
It does not change the fact that its in pretty poor taste.
They are treated as a completely seperate and special entity, where others are simply grouped together in one big lump.
So you are learning a valuable lesson. There is no such thing as an "innocent".
Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I left this in the hope that you would revise and edit what you had said but you obviously preferred not to.
It's pretty obvious that the entire premise of this complaint is ill-founded.
The planned Islam expo is only one of several events this summer to which the GLA and/or Ken Livingston is connected.
Oh really?
No.
Sadly the only truth and "valuable lesson" I've learnt here is a little about the revolting and repellent attitudes you hold.
There are "no innocents", eh?
I'm sure the 9/11 victims families along with every terrorists' victim would be as disgusted as I to hear that kind of vicious stupidity.
*ignore*