7/7 London Islamic Festival

Interesting though.

Both BBC News and Question Time, spoke on this issue and not one person that was asked had a problem with this. The whole few minutes on BBC news, every single person in London they spoke to thought it was a good idea. Every single panel member of Question Time, also said they thought events like this were a good idea and not one of them raised issue with the timing. So who has a problem with this?

Originally posted by Odium
Interesting though.

Both BBC News and Question Time, spoke on this issue and not one person that was asked had a problem with this. The whole few minutes on BBC news, every single person in London they spoke to thought it was a good idea. Every single panel member of Question Time, also said they thought events like this were a good idea and not one of them raised issue with the timing. So who has a problem with this?

- Quite so Odium; it's interesting that with very few, if predictable, exceptions almost all of the public comment is about the manifestly positive in these subsequent events.

Ken Livingston put it beautifully IMO -

the bombers sought to test us in other ways.

It was intolerable to these narrow fanatics that millions of Londoners of every religion, race, occupation and sex live side by side in a way that is overwhelming and increasingly peaceful, good humoured and generous.

London had become the leading city on earth in which economic well-being combines with the classic definition of liberty - that provided you do not interfere with anyone else you can lead your life entirely in your own way.

- He also went on to say in a great reply to those fanatics who would attack 'our' values

Those who attacked us wanted instead a society in which people dictate to others how they should live.
In which communities live in fear and loathing.

In which the wonderful relaxed atmosphere of London is replaced by bigotry and hate.

They sought to change the entire character of our city.
Such people did not represent the principles of any of the great religions on Earth.

They were criminals with the same mentality as the nail-bomber David Copeland, or the white supremacist Oklahoma bomber Timothy McVeigh.

In fact, as we saw from the yearly London survey at the end of 2005, people living in London have retained a strong sense of identity with the city and enjoy the city's cultural diversity.

As we observe two minutes silence this Friday we should pledge never to forget those individuals whose lives were ruined by 7 July and it is London's duty to look after them in every way it can.

But we should also take the greatest pride in the character of our capital city.

news.bbc.co.uk...

- Right on Ken!

What ever side of the fascist coin they be, whether they be 'divide and hate' fascist nutters with a fanatical sectarian religious 'bent' or merely the more traditional nationalist/racist fascist nutters they can all take their sad, pathetic, unrepresentitive and crazy little notions and get lost.

They haven't stirred up any 'revolution' in our society nor 'brought one closer' and nor will they, no matter what their laughable, if cruel and vicious, delusions.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
There is not? REALLY? Funny coming from you. Its not the Germans fault they elected Hitler, right? And that the Germans stood by and didn't do a damn thing while the Jews were hauled off to camps? In fact, the Germans were so "disgusted" with Hitler that they only tried to remove him once when they were losing the war badly.

I don't think so. Just as the German people bear a good portion of responsibilities for the horrors inflicted in World War II for their inaction and tolerance of Nazi evil, Muslims everywhere who do not take a tougher stance against psychotic extremeists and actively seek to root out this rot from their faith are just as guilty. If they really want the world to believe that they are for peace and charity, then they need to clean out their own closets instead of blaming the west for the idiots that blow people up in Allah's name.

I feel the same way about Christians too. I have since childhood watched as Christian churches give half hearted denouncements of nutjobs who blow up abortion clinics, or even worse, defend perverts and criminals in their ranks are just as guilty as the actual perps. I also feel the same way about my fellow Americans for re-electing Bush. They are guilty for the destruction of constitutional rights and the continuance of the forever war in Iraq.

You have got to be kidding.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should hate you and all your fellow countrymen because some of you voted for Bush.

Guess what, politicians lie. Politicans lie a lot, and we all believe them from time to time.

As for hating the Germans for something that happened over 60 years ago. Most of them were not even born then, so how can they bear any responsibility for the nazis?

If they can, well does that mean African-Americans should hate me because my country was heavily involved with the slave trade 200 years ago?

That is how ludicrous the above statement was.

Originally posted by Vox Populi


You have got to be kidding.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should hate you and all your fellow countrymen because some of you voted for Bush.

Guess what, politicians lie. Politicans lie a lot, and we all believe them from time to time.

As for hating the Germans for something that happened over 60 years ago. Most of them were not even born then, so how can they bear any responsibility for the nazis?

If they can, well does that mean African-Americans should hate me because my country was heavily involved with the slave trade 200 years ago?

That is how ludicrous the above statement was.

No, I am not kidding.

It is not about "hatered" per se. Its about accountability. Its about those tolerating scum amongst their ranks. Its about the failure of a group of any individuals to act and purge a rot that will eventually blow up and effect others.

Politicans are in power because we put them in power, and remain so because we allow them to. America is not a dictatorship or tyrannical government......at least not YET. Americans had the power NOT to elect Bush for a second term and to closely examine the mess he made his first four years. What did they do? The lected the idiot again. It does not matter why they elected him. Untilately, they gave him a thumbs up to keep screwing things up like he had been. Thus, the continuation of the mess in Iraq and the disaster of our other foreign policies, plus domestic policy, is just as much our fault as Bush's.

We are almost two years into Bush's second term. Yet I see no massive move for impeachment. I see no massive demands for accountability of the administration's massive abuses of power. They continue to create legislation that is in direct violation of the constitution, and the vast majority of Americans are more worried about phantom terrorists than the very real threat of losing their civil liberties and rights. Only a small number of concerned, intelligent people are calling for accountabibility and impeachment. The majority simply do nothing.

By standing by and doing nothing while some chimp from Texas makes life miserable for everyone not on the Fortune 500 list makes you as guilty as the chimp himself. Americans dont have to start massive demonstrations if its not their style. Angry letters to congress people, petitions and demands to remove the current admin from power, and other peaceful, non-violent means of discontent are available. But I do not see this. Thus, by refusing to speak up, what my fellow Americans as a whole are showing me that they are perfectly content with the mess Bush has made and the disaster in Iraq. Which makes them in part, guilty. Whether you wish to hate Americans or not is your individual choice, and your right. I don't hate other Americans. But I do hold them responsible for the continuing degredation of the state of affairs.

It was the same with the Germans. When we liberated all those death camps, the German townspeople often responded with "well, you cant blame US, we didnt do it". No, the German townspeople may not have dropped the zyklon b in the gas chamber or shoveled corpses in the cremetorium. But they sat by and allowed it to happen, and did nothing to stop it. They did not organize massive resistance, and did not work to conspire to remove Hitler from power. Until they were losing the war badly.

Because the Germans of that time elected Hitler into power and then did nothing while he committed vile acts, they are in part guilty by complacency. The gave their approval by sitting back and doing nothing. That made the Germans of that generation as guilty as adolf himself.

The same goes for Muslims. Its not enough that Mainstream Muslims say, well, we dont support that type of thing. Where were they when some of the biggest scumbags like Hazma were in their mosques preaching hate and jihad? Why was the more sensible and intelligent element of the Islamic community not out in front of these mosques protesting loudly and denouncing these extremists as the hateful scum they were, and encouraging the normal Muslims to drop any association with them and make them pariah? Why didn't the Muslim community send angry letters to these idiots and refuse to do any business with them, or have anything to do with them? Why werent they totally disowned and expelled from their communities?

When you sit back and do little or nothing while some bastards go out and make life hell for people, you are just as guilty by doing nothing.

If you are not kidding, then you have seriously lost touch with reality.

Moderate muslims DID demonstrate outside mosques against the 7/7 attacks.

The uncle of Shahida Islam who died on the Tavistock Road bus has recently made a further statement condemning the fanatics.

What more do you expect them to do?

"Root out the rot in their midst." as you say. Well how do you expect them to do what in five years the British, and US militaries, MI6 and the CIA have failed to do.

As for Americans re-electing Bush. Well that's called democracy. As Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of Government... apart from all the others."

A point from my last post that you have yet to address.

How can Germans be held accountable for the Second World War when most of them were not born when it ended?

Which brings me to your most ludicrous point.

That being if moderate muslims were sincere they would send angry letters to Al-Queda's leaders demanding that they stop their beastly activity.

Yes I can just see that working.

Osama Bin Ladin
A Cave
Somewhere on the Pakistan/Afghan border.


Dear Osama

That'll learn the swarthy son of a bitch won't it?

Get a reality transplant.

Originally posted by Vox Populi
A point from my last post that you have yet to address.

How can Germans be held accountable for the Second World War when most of them were not born when it ended?

We were discussing the attitudes towards Germans by people who have suffered from the last world war. Not the current crop of Germans. We were discussing anti-German attitudes postwar that people held. Last time I checked, anti-German sentiment isnt even an issue today except for the few survivors who are very old now.

Which brings me to your most ludicrous point.

That being if moderate muslims were sincere they would send angry letters to Al-Queda's leaders demanding that they stop their beastly activity.

Im not talking about Al Qaeda's foriegn leaders. Im talking about the people who live in Britian who are enspousing and encouraging and preaching violence right out in the open. The ones who help nurture and teach the little morons to go forth and bomb in the name of Allah or Mohamed right here at home. The ones who distribute and recruit for the jihad here. You don't actually think Bin Laden himself sends personal invitations from his cave in Afghanistan to go a-jihading, do you? Forget Bin Laden. Hell, he aint really a player anymore, too busy is he ducking bombs and moving about hiding from the hunters and trying to keep up the fight in afghanistan.

No, Im talking about the home grown Bin Ladens who are right here in the UK recruiting, preaching, and encouraging hatred and anti-western sentiment and violence. They are the ones the Muslim community in Britian has the power to stop.

Get a reality transplant.

Get a clue.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Im talking about the home grown Bin Ladens who are right here in the UK recruiting, preaching, and encouraging hatred and anti-western sentiment and violence. They are the ones the Muslim community in Britian has the power to stop.

And who are those exactly?

Last I heard there were three.

Two of them are now in the nick, and the other one did a runner out of the country after 7/7.

Get a clue.

Won't be getting one of those from you any time soon.

Originally posted by Vox Populi


And who are those exactly?

Last I heard there were three.

Two of them are now in the nick, and the other one did a runner out of the country after 7/7.

Oh, there are still more. The did have their own following and certain inspired quite a few.

But after the fact its a bit late, dont ya think? These scum should have been shut down earlier. It wasn't like Britian wasn't expecting an attack from these nuts before the bombings.

Won't be getting one of those from you any time soon.

Obviously not, since youre having a bit of trouble picking them up.

Oh, there are still more. The did have their own following and certain inspired quite a few.

Can you name them?

But after the fact its a bit late, dont ya think? These scum should have been shut down earlier.

I believe that the authorities acted as soon as they had built up a case against them which had a better than evens chance of succeeding in a court of law. To take action against them prematurely would have been to risk acquitals which would no doubt have been used by them as a propaganda victory. Which is exactly what the BNP did following the collapse of R v Collett and Griffin.

Instead the authorities handed them enough rope to hang themselves and they obliged by doing just that.

It wasn't like Britian wasn't expecting an attack from these nuts before the bombings.

Could have been worse. At least we didn't give them any flying lessons.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

The same goes for Muslims. Its not enough that Mainstream Muslims say, well, we dont support that type of thing. Where were they when some of the biggest scumbags like Hazma were in their mosques preaching hate and jihad? Why was the more sensible and intelligent element of the Islamic community not out in front of these mosques protesting loudly and denouncing these extremists as the hateful scum they were, and encouraging the normal Muslims to drop any association with them and make them pariah? Why didn't the Muslim community send angry letters to these idiots and refuse to do any business with them, or have anything to do with them? Why werent they totally disowned and expelled from their communities?

When you sit back and do little or nothing while some bastards go out and make life hell for people, you are just as guilty by doing nothing.

what a short sighted view

then the same can be said about the americans and the israelis

the americans on one hand as they are responsible for breading and createing generations of terrorists for their national intrests with no care for the lives that it affects.

example AQ they were created to fight the soviots on the side the of the americans
and now look at them now.

the americans have killed countless thousends of inaccent people throughout the decades second to the nazis,

same goes for israel they have killed countless thousends and raized thousends of homes to get to a few who fight back at their bruitalities (not saying the palistians are saints)
so in theory all the americans are guilty


the day i see all americans denounce what their goverment and israel does and stops them from breeding more of these fanatics and making life hell for thousends/millions of people then you will see a larger (almost all ) muslims ask and protest at the extremists


all i see from people is muslims that muslims this well get one fact straight
muslims havent killed as much people as your goverments nor has it bred as much to serve their selfish agendas

Originally posted by bodrul
what a short sighted view

then the same can be said about the americans and the israelis

the americans on one hand as they are responsible for breading and createing generations of terrorists for their national intrests with no care for the lives that it affects.

If you bothered reading the whole post, before I went on about Muslims, i specifically stated the same goes for Americans and their lack of taking Bush and his homeboys down.

Why is it no one ever botheres to read the whole thing?

And by the way, no, my countrymen have not killed more people than religous extremists. The U.S. has been around 230 years killing people. religous nuts have been around more than 6000 years killing people. You do the math.

I'm glad they did this.
The replies posted on this topic shows just how much we need it and Ken Livingstone was right in planning this.
Maybe some of you could have attended and seen how these 'crazy muslims' really live because I believe you guys would have been in for a suprise.