What I don't understand is why you have so much emotional time invested in there actually being weapons of mass destruction...its almost pathological. If I am proved wrong so be it, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last; but I wonder, could you handle it if you were proved wrong? For some reason, I doubt it. I could see you on here squeaing to high heaven how .... come to think of it!

Originally posted by grover
What I don't understand is why you have so much emotional time invested in there actually being weapons of mass destruction...its almost pathological. If I am proved wrong so be it, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last; but I wonder, could you handle it if you were proved wrong? For some reason, I doubt it. I could see you on here squeaing to high heaven how .... come to think of it!

Let's see...who is emotional?, the person that sees the evidence and facts, and understands what it says?, or the person that is shown facts, and evidence time and time again and doesn't want to accept them nomatter what?... Grover, you described yourself, and others like you, to the t.

The truth is that facts can be found about the wmd in Iraq issue from several sources, not just one, and time and time again Saddam has been found to be lying about the wmd programs he had, even after the first gulf war.

Again, I don't see you presenting any proof that debunks these facts presented.

As for your...patronizing question of why is it that I am discussing whether or not there were/are wmd in Iraq?.... Humm....i guess that's a tough one for you... Perhaps because "this thread is about the wmd in Iraq"?......

Perhaps you thought this thread was made so that Grover could continue bashing the administration and making personal attacks to members he disagrees with, instead of discussing the facts and evidence being presented....or staying away from the thread..

Anyways, nice try to derail this topic, again, but if you don't want to discuss the WMD in Iraq topic, perhaps you shouldn't respond to threads like this one... but again, i guess that's just me.

Bottom line my friends, not WMDs.

At least no yet, so lets make up and shake hands.

Originally posted by grover
What I don't understand is why you have so much emotional time invested in there actually being weapons of mass destruction...its almost pathological. If I am proved wrong so be it, it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last; but I wonder, could you handle it if you were proved wrong? For some reason, I doubt it. I could see you on here squeaing to high heaven how .... come to think of it!

Grover makes a good point, and the guy after him just adds on to what Grover said. What would happen when it is proven, 100% no doubt, that Buh lied, no WMDs, to the Bush Bots? WOuld they all explode, have srokes, heart attacks, cover themselves in gas and set themselves on fire?
It would be something to see, millions of republicans setting themselves on fire, falling over in the streets from a stroke or heart attack, pay per view quality I bet. And it wouldn't be like the Monks setting themselves on fire in Vietnam in protest it would be "Oh My Bush! He's Wrong, NO!" then setting themselves on fire because they don't know what to do.
It would be like from Dogma, to prove God wrong would undo all existence, for republicans it would undo their tiny little world where Saddam attacked us on 9/11, OBL isn't a CIA puppet, the Saudis are our allies, and Democrats are evil for supporting the 1st Amendment.

Originally posted by Muaddib
or staying away from the thread...

As reagan would say, there you go again.

It seems that everytime one of the "faux patriot" set is challenged that they want the challenger to go away. This is just a variation of the old and tired "america love it or leave it" theme.

Has this boring tactic ever actually worked for you?

As always, people make claims, yet they can't provide evidence to refute the evidence provided.... Yet again, and as i said before....let me put it in bold to see if this can be made clear.... even when president Bush said they have not found wmd stockpiles, and people using this to mean no evidence of wmd was found, I was there saying that's not true....and giving evidence and facts to prove why.... The WMD issue has nothing to do with "politics or partisanship"....it has to do with facts something that a few people don't seem to want to understand.... yet of course those who can only make claims and can't refute the evidence will try to dismiss the facts anyway they can....


[edit on 29-6-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by df1
As reagan would say, there you go again.

It seems that everytime one of the "faux patriot" set is challenged that they want the challenger to go away. This is just a variation of the old and tired "america love it or leave it" theme.

Has this boring tactic ever actually worked for you?

did you even follow the ....argument between grover and I?....

He was arguing the reason for discussing the wmd in Iraq in this thread..... that's the whole point... this thread was made by another member on the wmd issue..... Understand now why I responded that way?......

If grover want's to make a whole new thread about his hatred, and the hatred of other members against anything Republican, he can start his own thread if he wants....this thread is about the wmd issue in Iraq.... if he doesn't want to discuss the facts, he doesn't have to respond, but instead he tries to derail the topic.

[edit on 29-6-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Johnny Ohm

Grover makes a good point, and the guy after him just adds on to what Grover said. What would happen when it is proven, 100% no doubt, that Buh lied, no WMDs, to the Bush Bots? WOuld they all explode, have srokes, heart attacks, cover themselves in gas and set themselves on fire?
........................

Wow, if that is the smartest statement you can come up with, there is no point in responding to you.

Any facts to back up your claims or are they all part of Johny Ohm's imaginary world?

I am amazed that some people would make up such rhetoric, and think they are right and have proven something.... actually you did prove something, you can't make an intelligent argument for the life of you.

[edit on 29-6-2006 by Muaddib]

You have a very bad habit of twisting peoples words around to suit your arguement...you do it repeatedly, not just to me but to everyone who dares question you. I never wondered why we were dsicussing weapons of mass distruction on this thread. Get my words right damnit. No wonder I discount your opinions, if you cannot quote me or anyone else accurately and stop reading into them what you want, why the hell should I believe your other claims, just because you said them or claimed sourses....phffft!!!

Originally posted by grover
You have a very bad habit of twisting peoples words around to suit your arguement...you do it repeatedly, not just to me but to everyone who dares question you. I never wondered why we were dsicussing weapons of mass distruction on this thread. Get my words right damnit. No wonder I discount your opinions, if you cannot quote me or anyone else accurately and stop reading into them what you want, why the hell should I believe your other claims, just because you said them or claimed sourses....phffft!!!

Perhaps i become sarcastic and ironic when people like yourself cannot defend your own argument unless you try to belittle those you disagree with?....

Claimed sources huh?...is that how you try to dismiss the facts?... Can you prove that the statements from Russian defectors is not true?... or is this something Alex jones told you about?....

BTW, this story in itself appears to be just a cover story for what is really going on behind the scenes. Perhaps two senators are trying to cover their tracks, or they are trying to dismiss what Gaubatz has been talking about in the forums recently.


[edit on 29-6-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by grover

Claimed sources huh?...is that how you try to dismiss the facts?... Can you prove that the statements from Russian defectors is not true?...

[edit on 29-6-2006 by Muaddib]

and can you prove that they are? No you cannot...any more than I can prove they are wrong. And that is the rub. Big difference I know it.

Come on Muaddib, you can do it, just stand up in front of everybody and repeat after me...."Hi my name is Muaddib and I am powerless against my tendency to fart in the wind and to act like a know it all, and it is ruining my life. I admit that in all honesty, I know no more or no less than Grover does." and afterwards we will give you your first white token. It won't hurt!!! Now there, don't you feel better?

Originally posted by grover
Come on Muaddib, you can do it, just stand up in front of everybody and repeat after me...."Hi my name is Muaddib and I am powerless against my tendency to fart in the wind and to act like a know it all, and it is ruining my life. I admit that in all honesty, I know no more or no less than Grover does." and afterwards we will give you your first white token. It won't hurt!!! Now there, don't you feel better?

Wow, what an excellent way to dismiss facts huh Grover?... more personal attacks and not one inkling of evidence to dismiss the facts... who would have expected any more from you? not me, that's for certain. I am not a "know it all" grover, i present facts and testimonies from people who know a lot better than you whether there are/were wmd in Iraq....you seem to be the "know it all" claiming these people are all lying and only you "know better"... So nice try grover...

Again, can you present evidence that dismisses completly what all these former Russian defectors, and even ex U.S. officials have to say about this?.... or are you going to try to resort to more rhetoric and belittling attempts?... Oh wait, i know the anwser already.... i forgot i am trying to have an intelligent discussion with "grover"...

[edit on 29-6-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by grover
you probably consider ann coulter a legitimate political commentator don't you.

Who's your mentor? Bill Maher?

For the past two pages, grover, all you've done is resort to what you think are cute and witty remarks aimed at attacking other members. Why not discuss the topic and leave the snide remarks at home?

Up yours Muaddib...I am far smarter than you give me credit for. I have never said all those people are lying. I am trying to point out, with a little bit of humor, that you, me, all of us here cherry pick the information we chose to believe, yes including YOU and yes including ME. I can admit that, it seems that you cannot. My references for my assertions are all matter of public record...the national media outlets, not some obscure online article....Bush and other members of his cabinets own words. They have not been very good at covering their tails....and yes you can bemoan the liberal media if you want but guess what buddy...ain't so, the media is owned lock stock and barrel by conservative corporate concerns and the journals dance their tune. As soon as we can admit honestly that we do indeed pick and chose the info we accept the quicker we can have an honest and intelligent dialogue. I note that you were incapable of admitting that you can't prove or disprove the Russian defectors story any more than I can. That inability on your part was what I was mocking, not you.

Actually thats not true Josbecky...I have not been attacking other members...I have been attacking Muaddib specifically for behaving the very same way he accuses me of doing. I raised some very valid questions and instead of attempting to actually answer, he has attacked me, so, tit for tat. All I am trying to do is get him to admit that he picks and choses the info he wants to believe just like he accuses me (and everyone else who disagrees with him) of doing, and is indeed a know-it-all. He latches onto an idea like an old dog his bone. Just look at the thread claiming that iran was going to require Jews (and other ethnic groups) to wear specific badges...hell I even supported him initally, as a Baha'i I have no love for the Iranian government, their people are far better than it is, of course that could be said of us as well, and just about any other country also. Be that as it may, after his source was debunked he still would not let go of it...I am not sure, because I got bored with the whole thing, but I don't think he ever admitted he was wrong. A know-it-all.

So no I have not been attacking other members.

I saw an interview on CSPAN where a congressman asked one of the high ranking military officials
if they needed additional funding for chemical/biological suites for the soldiers to deal with these newly discovered WMD's, the response was "no I don't think so"

The GOP doesn't want to ralley around this discovery because these circa 1980's munitions were
provided by our own arms dealers.

Originally posted by grover
Up yours Muaddib...I am far smarter than you give me credit for.

Yeah, you proved it with the first three words you wrote.... all you can do is insult as you have proven.

Originally posted by grover
I have never said all those people are lying. I am trying to point out, with a little bit of humor, that you, me, all of us here cherry pick the information we chose to believe, yes including YOU and yes including ME. I can admit that, it seems that you cannot.

and what I have been pointing out is that those people i use as reference for my statements are/were in the intelligence community, if what these people have been saying is wrong then they must be psychic because they have been predicting exactly what would happen since at least the 1980s. You might call it "coincidence" I call it proof that what they have been saying is true.

Originally posted by grover
My references for my assertions are all matter of public record...the national media outlets, not some obscure online article....

Actually the references i have seen you post appear to be mainly media distortions of the truth, the information about the people I have been talking about isout there for anyone to see, they exist and they were/are experts in this field.

Originally posted by grover
I note that you were incapable of admitting that you can't prove or disprove the Russian defectors story any more than I can.

What the hell do you call the fact that what they have been saying for at least over two decades has come to pass?....

Originally posted by grover
That inability on your part was what I was mocking, not you.

Right....

[edit on 30-6-2006 by Muaddib]

you can rant and rave all you want about the weapons of mass distraction all you want, and perhaps you are right but it doesn't change the fact that it was an unprovoked war of choice. George Bush invaded Iraq because he wanted to. Not even Hussien's neighbors considered him a threat anymore and that in itself speaks volumes.