I'm going to bump this thread, because I just recently saw it, and felt it warranted a reply.
I'm also going to add the disclaimer that I'm drunk while replying, so the typography may not be the best, but the views are still mine, drunk or
First and foremost, I want to explain to Delta Alter the differences between animal welfarists and animal activists (as you seem to have missed this
I, myself, am an animal welfarist. I eat meat, own three pets. and hate PETA. I believe in better and humane treatment for animals, be it how they
are treated in a home, medical testing, or as human food. Animal activists, on the other hand, are more concerned with animal rights than human
rights, and are often agreeable (if not involved) in such acts as firebombing, personal threats (sometimes resulting in violence) or other atrocities.
I'll address each of my concerns in these issues individually.
As far as an average human having pets. If the animal kept as a pet is fed properly, given adequate medical care, and generally treated well (insofar
as maintaining a happy, healthy pet), I see no problem with that. In fact, I'll go even further as to say that domesticated animals which, in the
USA, are seen as typical pets
(dogs, cats, and more recently in the mainstream rabbits, chickens, rats, mice, and guinea pigs) are domesticated animals that RELY on us for their
well-being (most specifically cats and dogs, as the others are VERY recent additions to the domestics pets category). I can say very confidently that
my own dog would not be alive if it were not for human intervention. My dog is a rescue. She was originally found on the streets at roughly 9 months
old, pregnant and emaciated. She would have certainly died, if not found at the time she was, and immediately brought to a vet. She was, at the time
she was found, pregnant with 6, unknown mix (nobody ever knew who the father of her puppies was) puppies, who were straining her body more than she
could eat (and thus provide nutrients for both her and the puppies to survive). When she was found, she was immidiately taken to a vet, fed, watered,
and the litter was aborted (she would have died otherwise - the choice given by a seasoned, professional veterinarian was you have two choices - the
dog or the litter. The litter has a 10% chance of surviving, and the dog has a 60% chance of surviving). What's the logical choice?
As it is now, I have a five year old, very healthy, very happy puppy (and as precious to me as my own child), who is only here through human
intervention. If I went by PETA doctrines, she'd be dead.
As it is, I just had to take a brief restroom break from typing this post, and when I was done my business, who was there? My puppy. She just wanted
to say hi to Daddy, and I obliged her with some time. I asked her (she's a border collie, and intelligent enough to understand human speech, even if
she can't verbally respond), if she remembered being on the streets (and I live in a major city... the streets look the same), and she responded by
laying down - showing submission and sadness. I asked if she remembered being pregnant (she's witnessed one of my cats being pregnant, with all the
pain and happiness, andknows the word from witnessing that), and once again, she responded affirmatively. I asked her if she remembered the vet that
healed her - her response was a million kisses. I asker her if she remembered the woman that she stayed with while getting healthy (my ex, who nursed
her back to health), and it was an even more enthusiastic million kisses. Then I simply asked, "Who's Daddy?" Her response was playfully tackling
me, and licking my face incessantly, until I asked her to back off (and "back off" is a command I've trained her with, meaning, "you're too in
someone's face... back off and give them some room"). After that, you tell me that this animal is not happier in the care of a human. My own dog
is proof of the validity of my statement when I say, "F you, Ingrid Newkirk." The only time that pet ownership is an issue with me, is when I see
someone blatantly abusing a pet, and I've been known to rescue such animals. My girlfriend is as well, which is how she came by two of her thre pets
(rescuing them from abusive families, both times by force).
As far as animal testing goes, I assure you, the animals in an average reserach lab, playing by the rules set forth by at least 5 US organizations,
and 4 international organizations, they're treated better than the average pet. The average lab animal is provided with proper nutrients, toys for
play, socialization (to whatever extent is allowed by the test - often just playing with another animal through the cages - physical contact is often
involved), etc. These are the mandates set forth by the Animal Welfare Act. The regulations go much deeper than the basics I've outlined here.
Educate yourselves. Safe to say, my girlfriend works for a major animal research facility in the field of medicine (she has personally asked that it
remain anonymous, because she doesn't wish to lose her job over me disclosing it), and she has educated me on many of the animal welfare regulations
put in place. Read the link. Learn something.
As far as animals used for human food, most of the horror stories from the slaughter houses are true. The scene inside the average slaughter house is
very real. What PETA fails to mention is that the preferred method of death for most slaughter house animals is the bolt gun, which fires a steel
bolt directly into the brain of an animal, killing it instantly. The one (and I've only seen one sequence in the PETA propaganda films) problem with
the bolt gun is that's it's only 99.9% effective. Occasionally, there is the cow/pig/sheep that isn't killed by the bolt gun (and even they die
shortly thereafter), but it's only one case out of 1000. If you're going to protest any slaughtering methods, protest the (constitutionally
protected) kosher slaughtering method (and I mean no ill will to kosher Jews). This method of slaughtering requires the animal to be cut on the
throat, and drained of blood until dead. This means often affords the slaughtered animal several hours of anguish before death. The only reason I
tolerate it, is because it is protected by the Constituion, as guaranteed religious rights (the practice has been around for thousands of years, long
before the Constitution of the USA was drafted).
I don't like the idea, however, of food animals being kept in cages barely (if even) big enough for their bodies. I find this to be cruel and
inhmane. Unfortunately, I am a bit of a hypocrite on this aspect, as my love of meat and rather poor finances have kept me from boycotting this
practice. Hopefully with my new job (which will finally place me above the poverty level), I'll be able the afford the more expensive, free-range
meats, and thereby allow me to boycott the manufacturers of such small-caged meats.
Finally, I urge everyone, regardless of PETA/anit-PETA support to view the video posted here, in its entirety, before making a judgement.
The video is not anti-vegan, as some have claimed. It simply points out the hypocracies carried out by PETA. They are not as "pure" in the cause
as they paint themselves to be.
The vice-president of PETA uses insulin for her diabetics, for instance. Insulin was tested on dogs - a serious violation of PETA morals. She
doesn't consider it to be3 wrong, however. Watch the video for her reasoning.
Finally, and briefly (as I'm running out of space for this thread), those that think ALF and ELF are not terrorist organizations, just do a search on
ATS for each of those groups (more specifically ALF), and know that both are terrorist organizations.
ALF if even on the list of domestic terrorist groups, as published by the FBI.
Take that to heart.
[edit on 7/15/2006 by obsidian468]