Prevailing Left blowing wind on ATS (Op/Ed)

I would appear from posting on numerous different political threads and conversing with numerous members, that ATS has a definitive left wing slant politically. There may be any number of Conservative Members out there, but they either remain silent or become silent after being bombarded by the left's defamation of their core beliefs and character.




Is it that the Liberals are more outspoken, or that the Conservatives are just tired of the same old lines being attached to their opinions? The attacks I have witnessed are derogatory and inflaming at most and vicious and untrue at the least. Does all of this stem from the incredible and unexplainable hatred for President Bush or a hate for all things conservative?
Being a conservative in today’s atmosphere is challenging, yet how can any American watch the Liberals scream, Dean, and rant, Gore, and use language such as Traitor, War Criminal and Dictator to describe our President and not attempt to defend someone so very downtrodden?
All of these questions beg for answers and if possible, to meliorate the entire situation. A little over six years ago we were all privy to a president that did more to lower the respect and prestige of the office of President then any in history. We all became the laughing stock of the entire world as he struggled to define the meaning of the word “Is.” We all suffered through as he explained that oral sex was not adultery. We all watched as the three major news agencies accepted and defended this, wondering what has happened to our country. President Bush has been criminalized for what? Reading a book to some children PRIOR to the events of 9/11. The fact that he is not psychic eliminates his ability to have foreseen the event, yet some criticize his actions on that day to the rest of our bewilderment. How about the Iraq war? Reading and rereading the speeches leading up to the war, it is profoundly apparent that WMD’s were only a minor concern, that the violations of the UN sanctions and the crimes against humanity were the actions that precipitated President Bush’s actions and the subsequent invasion. Still other supposedly intelligent minds, read into his speeches that what they wish to hear and not the truth of the actual words.
I can not defend, nor will I attempt to, the President’s actions on immigration. I will simply state that the issue is not as simple as some I have spoken with assume it to be. No one I have talked with, or heard has been able to completely justify a position on “shipping the Illegal’s out, rounding them up or sealing the borders.” We all want action, but do not wish to pay the taxes necessary to implement any of the proposed solutions. The hiring alone of enough Border Patrol agents to do any of those things, is in the billions of dollars. When it is proposed to put combat troop, not National Guard, on the border, (which I am opposed to) then either pose comitatus comes into play, or the radical xenophobes scream YES. It is more and more becoming a lose-lose situation for the President.
So the President authorizes the interception and monitoring of overseas phone conversations that have key words and indications of terrorist connections. Had the President not done this and failed to prevent another attack such as 9/11, then all of the liberals would be screaming bloody murder that he was not doing his job. Somewhere, sometime, the Liberals need to understand that you can not have it both ways. Of course they never will, they simply want anything to complain about, any talking points to throw out in condemnation to this current President. The very nature of their inability to debate on this forum or in any public venue is very indicative of the emotional nature of their argument and not the substance of their words.
In that line the question begs as to why they can not argue their points without emotional outburst, screaming and passionate kissing in public. In debate class we learn first, that to properly debate and “get” our point across we must remain dispassionate and removed. This has escaped the liberals at some point and continues to elude them. Liberals use fear tactics, out of context quoting and the passionate, emotional outburst to send their message to the public. They scare the seniors with threats of losing the social security through privatization, which is of course completely false, they use edited films from Iraq to show supposed abuse by the military and even atrocities and of course all of this is put right in the President’s lap even though congress voted (including Dems) in support of the war there.
Conservative Republican’s are not without fault, not by a long shot, but we have no Senators that while driving drunk killed a woman that I know of. And you keep electing him. Maybe you should try looking to your own housekeeping if you intend on winning any elections.
That is the “rub” anyway. You lost and you lost big. Now you’re desperate to get any power back that you can. So your tactics are to discredit and defame Republicans as much as you can until the American Public begins to swallow all of the garbage you are forcing down their throats.
Well, if you get your Democratic president, and the country goes back into the darkness then I guess I can say, “I told you so.”



Related News Links:
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OP/ED: Impeach Bush Now!

This site is a "conspiracy theory" discussion board. As such, the apparent "slant" is a result of our highly critical approach at analysis of whatever administration is in office. While Slick Willy was silver-tonguing the public, we (conspiracy theorists) were just as harsh of him as we are of Bush now... it's our job. If you're not able to look at government (any government) with a critical-thinking approach, then perhaps a "conspiracy theory" community is not the best place for you... you'll only continue to be frustrated.

The bigger, much more important issue, is the long-standing strategy of dividing the populace into two opposing groups that blame each other for all the problems we have. You've taken deep long swigs of that dangerously poisonous "Kool Aid" as has the vast majority.

I've been waiting for this darned thing to go to submission so that I could say.

BOY - AINT THIS RICH!

Last time the board got accused of having some political leaning it was to the right! Meanwhile, we're supposed to be a bunch of neo-con COINTELPRO agents pushing the admin line and now you're accusing the board of leaning left!

Perception is only YOUR reality...even when it parts with the reality.

I'm a Republican and I speak out. Maybe you want to lump me with your "dreaded democrats" because I've got the guts to speak out against an administration that is wearing my label, but wearing it in a dishonorable way. And now I'm going to speak out saying I think this should be moved to PTS where political sniping and baiting is allowed. It's a festering pot of divisiveness as far as I'm concerned.



[edit on 6-3-2006 by Valhall]

This is an op/ed piece and really has no business on ATSNN. Whether or not its going to be a debate or not just depends on how it plays out in whatever forum it ends up in. Before its over I figure it will end up in slug fest.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by mrwupy]

You were doing exceedingly well until you got down to the final few sentences where you began to emulate the tactics of the liberal left. The bulk of your comments are inarguably true, though they will be argued over anyway.

Personally, it seems to me like this should be in PTS, but I'm sure there are enough people that would argue with me, which would be like hijacking this thread, so I won't go there.

I believe that while the structure of your OP/ED is immaculate, the meat of your piece is extremely flawed. Yes, there are people on here that make it quite obvious that they do not like GW, as there are people that make it obvious that they despise Hillary Clinton. All is fair in the world of speech. There are many Republicans that are also angry with the way GW has handled this presidency, and the country. This piece is about as devisive as one could get without just falling into an all-out rant.

Ambassador Bolton was on Fox News, speaking about the Iran controversy. In this even he admits that many of the presidents strongest supporters are going to be angry if indeed GW decides to take unilateral action against Iran. Seems to me that this is not just a left/right issue. This is an issue of concern for all Americans regardless of political affiliation. There is a poison in the wings, as I have in my signature. If you only have a left wing, if you only have a right wing, you'll never fly.

Please understand that though some you accuse may be guilty of being leftist, you have just shown your staunch holding of the right. Therefore, you have brought yourself down to the very level you are against. Sad. I respect every right that you have taken to publish this piece, but I do not agree.

Edit - Spelling error(s)



[edit on 6/3/06 by niteboy82]

This forum is either only the computer hosting the words, or it is composed of each and every one of us. If you think there is a 'left' bias maybe you should go round up some supposed 'righties' and get them to come here to balance it out.

The risk is that some of them might come away as lefties.....or worse yet they might wake from the dialectic.

Then how would you feel about yourself?

I say this should be moved to PTS.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by Malichai]

This "op/ed" has nothing to do with the news and has all to do with trying to pick a fight. If this is approved as an op/ed piece than I fear the entire point of an op/ed will be wasted. We might as well start considering every post in every forum as an op/ed.

It's fairly easy to discredit the content of this rant as well as the labelling of members on ATS, but to do so will only give credence to the rambling. I say ignore it, and wait until someone moves it to PTS before responding.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by Jamuhn]

incredible and unexplainable hatred for President Bush

Are you kidding?

Are you rightwingers really that divorced from reality?

Notice I say right-wingers, not conservatives, because no conservative with an ounce of integrity supports this President... the man spends money like a drunken sailor.

Have you somehow not noticed that Bush has become one of the most unpopular Presidents in modern US history? That we're stuck in a hugely unpopular and increasingly brutal occupation in Iraq, the result of a war justified by a deceptive scare campaign about WMD's that never, in fact, existed? The fact that despite this poorly disguised resource grab, oil prices are rising to levels that burden not only the poor, but even the middle class? That despite all this, this administration is trying to pull almost the exact same tricks to drag us into a conflict with Iran, in a demented and failing attempt to "redraw the map of the Middle East", in favor of Israel, a fake apartheid democracy, a so-called "ally" whose agents cheer when 3,000 Americans are pulverised and incinerated, who sells our defense technology to China?

As for the "hatred", boo-freaking hoo... after years of being called "anti-American" and a "traitor" for opposing my country's needless entry into this disatrous conflict, I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever. You people made your bed, now lie in it. If you're hated, it's because you stubbornly stand by a President and a war that have failed, and done incalculable damage to this country's dignity and prestige, not to mention our military, our economy, and the pointless sacrifice of thousands of young soldiers.

If you're hated, it's only because the big ol' Wheel O' Karma has come around and is now rolling over your heads. I'm sick of being pegged as an "America hater", a "traitor", a "terrorist sympathizer", simply because I have spoken out against a conflict that has been a terrible, costly mistake for this country.

You ought to be ashamed.

[edit on 6/3/06 by xmotex]

He is the lowest rated US President in 61 years.

what do you expect? an ATS Bush Fanclub

The wind shifts both ways. I remember when we were all talking about Clinton, and all the mistakes he made. Now we have one that far surpasses what Clinton did, and the left wind seems to be prevailing.
This is what ATS encounters. Times change. Things happen. I have no problem with someone of the opposite opinion at all. Some of my best friends here are totally on the opposite side. That's the beauty about this website.
The wind undoubtedly will shift again. Hillary Clinton's run for the presidency is comming up. I plan to deal with the comments then.

Funny, I had the same idea in mind, but with a few basic changes......where you have 'conservative', I might have written 'democrat', and where you have 'liberal', I would have said, 'republican'.....LOL! (shall I furnish you some links where I have received harsh, off topic replies from some of those 'soft spoken' conservatives??)

You might re-read some of the threads from pre-election times.....but take the blinders off and see that both sides get pretty acrimonious!!

Truly, perspective colors perception!! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!
It's the political equivalent of 'the theory of relativity'......etc, etc....

Firstly, I don't think it's fair to attack a group without telling us who you are. If you came out of hiding, maybe I'd have a little more respect for you/your opinion.

Secondly, you need to do some solid research, buddy, your post is full of mainstream media mistruths. You may want to start with watching the documentary "Outfoxed".

And lastly, you do realize don't you that ATS is representative of the population, and since in America, Bush's popularity ratings are something like 27% and Cheney's is like 17%, you will hence see the numbers reflected in the opinions on ATS.

I. too, remember being told that if I wasn't with you (the Conservatives) I was against you. I remember a girl in one of my classes during the election asking me how I could be a traitor, and why wasn't I patriotic enough to vote for Bush?

I disagree with most of the things this President and this Administration have done. I feel they are dangerous to freedom as a whole, lessen our dignity worldwide, and make us all look like brash, testosterone-filled, trigger-happy idiots. It pains me to see all of this go on, and it hurts even more when I'm told that if I don't like the things my country is doing, then I should get out.

This is not a news submission, and belongs in PTS. Your opinion is valid, of course, and I respect your right to say it, but you have posted it in the wrong forum.

As a test, I should put up a similar piece with a Liberal view and see what the reaction would be...

I. too, remember being told that if I wasn't with you (the Conservatives) I was against you. I remember a girl in one of my classes during the election asking me how I could be a traitor, and why wasn't I patriotic enough to vote for Bush?

Just like over here, in the United Kingdom. I got called a "class traitor" because i dont support and dont vote Labour (who are traditionally the working class party). I am from a stereotypical Labour family, but i will note vote for a party that does not support me or my views.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by infinite]

I think you are looking at the political climate through some colored, certainly not rose, glasses. Being an outsider I can look at this objectively. I see the far right doing the same as the far left AND just as vocally. The only difference I have seen is that the Righters(NOT Conservatives) call anyone that doesn't agree with, or bashes Bush, liberals. Funny thing here is that I've see quite a few Conservative being labelled liberals. That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Over the past few days I've been watching incidents like this pop up sporadically on this board and in real life.

The administration has sunk to such dismal levels that the supporters now have nothing left to hold on to but the hatred of their percieved "enemies". Instead of waiting for the attacks they're now going on the offensive, which is odd because they really have nothing to whine about.

The most telling example of the sheer idiocy of them is the Iraqi massacre case. Many were happy enough that a US Military investigation cleared the soldiers of wrongdoing, but failed to recognise that they merely shifted the Rules of Engagement. Those troops still shot kids in head, but that's okay so long as it doesnt reflect badly on your political position.

Whether these enemies of the state are the "islamofascists" (FYI: that's one of those trigger words that lets me know you're an idiot) or the homosexuals, single mothers or the mexicans. In the end they're all lumped in with the "dreaded democrats" as Val put it.

It has become evident that people do not have a grasp of the fundamental principles of a democratic society. They're more inclined to give Government all the power they need to fight the "enemies of the state" yet do not question the lack of results. People around the world ask time and time again why Americans get to keep guns... because you were the first to wisen up to principle that government is inherently untrustworthy.

I'll remind you of the premamble to the constitution;

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Now it should read;

We the paranoid masses of the Mexican State, in order to form a more white middle class friendly union, establish justice for the people but not the politicians, insure domestic terror, provide for the common offence on other countries, promote the general welfare of big pharmaceutical companies, and secure the blessings of Pat Robertson to ourselves and our posteriors, do ordain and establish this meaningless document which is overlooked when the stakes are percieved to be high enough.

These colours don't run, but they are for sale to the highest bigger.

this was going in an ok direction, even though i didnt agree with it. that was for the first couple sentences. then you went on to attack clinton which has little to do with NOW, you attacked other liberal "democrats" about how he ran over some one. You said that WMD were NOT the reason the public was behind going to iraq, which is the most misinformed statement ive read in a while.

You then progress to attack people because they dont like the president. What I fail to see is you actually talking your points out, which you propose to do. Unless your point is to bash liberal thinkers and hope you can get away with not addressing the facts, then you have definately contradicted yourself. Whats funny to me is that you bash bash bash, then complain when people do it back. Now im no republican, but I do have some conservative views. I grew up around alot of republicans, real old style view people. Unfortunately for bush, even they arent biting at the lies because they arent closing their eyes.

I would like to say that republicans are fools, but ya know what, that wouldn't be true. Republicans and bush supporters dont even fall in the same category anymore for me. To say your republican in no way associates them with bush for me anymore. Simply put, just because some one has right winged views, does not make then stupid enough to go along with/ or associate them with, this failure of a president. As for the left, I hope they do the same and see the fact that they dont have to be a bush supporter to be republican.

To the person who wrote this, I have a message from the republican parents that raised me as a child, you give republicans a bad name. Theres nothing wrong with republican views, but to claim your "conservative" and follow such actions the president has is sickening. To have conservative views is to uphold the old, and to make sure that things dont get changed and twisted into something empty. When it comes to my country, the constitution, im conservative. I believe in everything the forefathers wanted, and its not "open to interpretation" and its not "just a damn piece of paper". When it comes to race and such then im liberal, and there is nothing wrong with that.
But you my friend, give republicans a bad name by supporting some one who holds anything but conservative views toward our constitution and our country.

The supposed debate between liberals and conservatives is nothing but a lie which is being perpetuated by the demopublican parties in the US to inhibit debate of the real issues which confront the country. This is being done in order to keep power in the hands of same people that created the mess and it is being passed off as a form representative democratic government. Based on the left/right bickering Ive seen on this and other ATS threads, everything is going according the demopublican plan. The US public has been dumbed down to such a degree that they are completely unaware that they are being sodomized by their own government.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by df1]

*Bush and Clinton. The Two Headed Coin.

*OP/ED: Dark Days. (The black band on ATS)

*ATSers, we are being divided still.