As we liberals and conservatives endlessly debate the trivial issues de jour the government proceeds to do whatever it likes without our consent. I really could care what label you choose to apply but when you subvert the will of the people don't cry foul. This Administration has on an unpresidented scale thumbed their nose at the 90% of the people who are not in the highest tax bracket. Their failings are to numerous to cover completely but here are just a few---

Making Halliburtan multi millionaires while still under invetigation for wrongdoing while our VP was their CEO.

Breaking laws left and right, surveillance, torturing prisoners(some of whom are children) , Using white phosphorous and depleted uranium on non-combatants, allowing big corporations to defualt on their pension plans, lying about WMD, yellow cake and then outing a CIA agent out of spite( A CAPITAL OFFENCE)
attacking decent Americans who are reporting on wrongdoings with prosecution,

The list goes on but why should this administrtion get a free ride when the people, as in We the People, don't agree with or condone their actions. An administration by any other name(dem, rep, lib,con, etc.) would still be morally and perhaps actually bankrupt.

I started out life poor & thought communism was the way, Then I got a job & started paying taxes & became a Die hard Conservative. Then I got into the tax protesting movement and realized it's all smoke & mirrors, a dog & pony show.
Canada's last Liberal Prime Minister "Paul Martin" has said on record that Canada is a benign dictatorship. Yeah sure it may be benign now but all the laws are in place for a nasty guy to take over. It doesn't matter who is in charge these days cause our votes & opinions mean nothing. You can't prosecute the Gov't for its crimes but they'll send in a SWAT team if you don't pay your taxes. ALL THE GOV'Ts in THE ENTIRE World are OUT OF CONTROL!!!!! They have taken too much power and we are a decade away from a global dictatorship.
We always were feudal serfs but the Gov't brainwashed us in public school about our freedoms. Free people don't need a licence to get married, they don't need permission to add a step onto their house, they don't need permission to leave the plantation AKA a passport. The Gov't social workers could never ever come into royalties homes and take away their children even if pure evil was taking place in the household but they'll take your kids away on suspicion without proof. Free people own land and it can never be seized for tax debts.
YOU pay rent via property taxes.
WAKE UP, There are poor slaves, middle class slaves, millionaire slaves but Rockefellar, Rothschild, Warburg, Bronfmans, Sinclairs, Reichmans, Queen Elizabeth & family are the true free people, the rest of us get harvested like chattel.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by BattleofBatoche]

[edit on 3-6-2006 by BattleofBatoche]

.

When I first read the original post, it was in a 'pending' state. I felt sure it would never get beyond the ATSNN mods, because ATSNN is not the place for political baiting and sniping. Next time I checked there are 2 pages of replies and not only did it get beyong pending, it's apparently been voted to submission. Pretty shocking. I can't help but wonder of there wasn't some effort to let it remain on ATSNN purely to avoid the perception that ATS (as an entity) is not left-leaning. I feel certain that an op/ed attacking 'conservative Democrats' would have been relegated to PTS immediately...

But perhaps it's good to let it stand for the time being and see how 'ATS' responds.

As many have pointed out, liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans are just a bunch of words.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Well, if you get your Democratic president, and the country goes back into the darkness then I guess I can say, “I told you so.”

Our country is about as 'dark' as it has ever been right now.

And I wear neither the Democrat nor Republican label. Never have. I, like most thinking people have views and beliefs that range from extremely conservative to to extremely liberal. I do not buy into the game that we all slide comfortably into one side or another. I refuse to be divided and labeled. I will not play into their hand.

Does ATS have a leftist bias? I think they are more vocal than the right. But I
question whether the increased amplitude is due to critical analysis, as has been
suggested. Many - not all - left voices here resort to sensationalism and unproven
claims to make their point. Pre-judgement is rampant here. The result is that
conservatives try to make their point by supplying facts and are met with claims of
being blind sheeple.

And I wonder how much of this is by design, or by evolution. Does anyone remember this particular exchange here:

Person A: Sorry Person B, it sounds like Republicans control ATSNN. Anything that makes them look bad is voted down, if I had seen it in time I would have voted yes, it is a news story, therefor belongs on ATS News Network.

Person B: Not for long.

Not long after that, the ability to vote NO for a submission was taken away from
members. Certain other views have actually had their NO status overriden because they were considered "important". Now we register our NO vote by not voting, a far cry from the ability to actually vote NO. All that is necessary now is to wait until enough YES votes are recorded.

And I hear that Clinton was treated with as much criticality as Bush. I can't
remember seeing that. The worst criticism I ever see about Clinton is "All he ever
did wrong was get a bj, for goodness sake!"

It's no secret that my views lean conservative. And I have no problem debating with any opposing view; I can hold my own. Rarely have I ever felt that I lost a debate because of better logic or more convincing facts.

So, at the present time, it is true that conservative voices are outweighed here. But it is not as much due to critical thinking than it is people following the prevailing wind of opinion polls. Critical thinking often goes against the popular viewpoints.

I don't agree with the view that the author should maybe find another website if he is unhappy. That sounds like intimidation, and is certainly not consistent with a policy of inclusion and non-divisiveness. I do agree this post might be better placed in PTS, though.

To the author, I suggest that you maintain your views. Don't be afraid to question them from time to time; self-inspection helps us to grow.

To everybody, We all win when a debate stays above the level of ad hominem attacks and using sensationalism to make a point. It must be very difficult to maintain a site with balance without appearing biased; I don't envy the staff and admin their jobs. But ATS is still one of the best sites out there. I enjoy my time here, and I hope that ATS changes for the better if it has to change at all.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I can't help but wonder of there wasn't some effort to let it remain on ATSNN purely to avoid the perception that ATS (as an entity) is not left-leaning.

Can you imagine the outcry if we had moved it? There'd be screams like, "SEE, HE'S RIGHT." Mind you, that's just my opinion.

But perhaps it's good to let it stand for the time being and see how 'ATS' responds.

Agreed and it's been a pretty civil discussion at that.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
the apparent "slant" is a result of our highly critical approach
at analysis of whatever administration is in office.

Ahhh .. then I look forward to some REAL fireworks when Hillary takes
over in 2008. She'a a marxist and as such she should really get the
sparks flying.

I think this left-right crap does not belong here on ATS. It is contaminating our search for the truth and aswers and contributing heavily to the division of membership and site in general. Since this is a conspiracy and international site the American members should take their party disputes on the PTS where it belongs.

Originally posted by df1
The supposed debate between liberals and conservatives is nothing but a lie which is being perpetuated by the demopublican parties in the US to inhibit debate of the real issues which confront the country. This is being done in order to keep power in the hands of same people that created the mess and it is being passed off as a form representative democratic government. Based on the left/right bickering Ive seen on this and other ATS threads, everything is going according the demopublican plan. The US public has been dumbed down to such a degree that they are completely unaware that they are being sodomized by their own government.

You have voted df1 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Someone has hit the nail right on the head

Originally posted by yanchek
I think this left-right crap does not belong here on ATS. It is contaminating our search for the truth and aswers and contributing heavily to the division of membership and site in general. Since this is a conspiracy and international site the American members should take their party disputes on the PTS where it belongs.

You have voted yanchek for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

WELL SAID my friend. Get this crap off ATS, please. Don't you people have lives?

If this continues, I reckon I'll be leaving here for new pastures.

Steve

[edit on 3/6/06 by SteveR]

Thanks SteveR for WATS.

Sadly I have to agree with you. The thought crossed my mind couple of times lately.

Whatever happened to center? I get accused by leberals of being con and accused by cons of being lib. This is primarily because I am center...which is where I think that most Americans truly stand.

The fact that a major feud has erupted these last couple years between the two has opened the door for a third party that caters to the center. Both parties are now going so far to their extremes that there is a gaping hole in between for another party to step in and dominate both.

When will we as Middle America wake up and start a party that is more interested in the well being of our country and less interested in party agendas?

if thats what were to happen dave, i would rejoice. This 2 party system is completely corrupt and not what it was meant to be like.

Aren't most conspiracies at their core leftist/liberal?

To even contemplate conspiracy theories one must be open to new ideas. If any of the big ones are true, reaction and solution would necessitate massive change. Conservatives who want to maintain life as it is most likely are not open to much of the spectrum of conspiracy theories unless it fits into retaining the status quo.

Now certainly there are conservative conspiracy theories, but there aren't nearly as many as there are those that lean left or or are so different as to not even be considered by conservative thinkers.

The longer people in positions of power visibly lose their popularity over one issue or another, invariably conspiracy theory websites will react in kind. As such, ATS will certainly appear more liberal in these moments given the political ranks currently in power.

Heelstone,

I theory what you say makes sense. But what happens if a liberal puts on a conservative appearance in order to obtain his conspired objectives? He has therefore duped conservatives into supporting him in his liberal conspiracy.

Originally posted by df1
The supposed debate between liberals and conservatives is nothing but a lie which is being perpetuated by the demopublican parties in the US to inhibit debate of the real issues which confront the country. This is being done in order to keep power in the hands of same people that created the mess and it is being passed off as a form representative democratic government. Based on the left/right bickering Ive seen on this and other ATS threads, everything is going according the demopublican plan. The US public has been dumbed down to such a degree that they are completely unaware that they are being sodomized by their own government.

I beg to differ. There is real debate going on between two different philosophies on topics such as the war, illegal immigration, same sex marriage, and many other topics. I never rely on a congressman for my source; I examine each issue independently and draw my own conclusions.

This is a conspiracy site, true, however I disagree with the notion that there is some "demopublican plan" designed to keep us fighting amongst each other. The very idea of such as plan stretches credulity. Three people can't agree on the weather forecast, much less some grandiose plan to keep us divided.

Left and right are terms used to devide people into oposing fractions, can't we all just have sperate and destinct veiwpoints on issues instead of having to have the same polerised veiwpoints on all issues?

Grim,

There are those of us who are/have been working to drive the 2 parties further apart in order to create a bigger gap between, thus enabling the creation of a new party that meets the need of us Middle Americans. It may seem a bit on the wrong side, but it is the peaceful revolution. Join in and help....get out your hammer and help to drive the wedge between the 2 parties and it will happen.

The alternative of allowing things to continue as they have is un-American. The duty of every American is to fight tyranny.

(Edit Typo)

[edit on 3-6-2006 by davenman]

Originally posted by heelstone
Aren't most conspiracies at their core leftist/liberal?

To even contemplate conspiracy theories one must be open to new ideas. If any of the big ones are true, reaction and solution would necessitate massive change.

Liberal and conservative refer to value systems, not whether one is more or less open to ideas.

Conservatives who want to maintain life as it is most likely are not open to much of the spectrum of conspiracy theories unless it fits into retaining the status quo.

Liberals who want to change life as it is often turn a deaf ear to the benefits of maintaing things as they are. So, both sides are "guilty".