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America has been Defeated - US Professor

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posted on May, 31 2006 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by smokenmirrors
when the enemy is marching west across the farmland of the delmarva peninsula, wake me up will ya?

also, all my prayers go out to the fool army that thinks it can subdue the likes of NYC, Baltimore, DC, and Philly, to name a few......heck, these places are far more dangerous than Iraq.....

www.nysun.com...


Not when they've been facing the likes of some new virus, famine, or stock-market crash implosion scenario that everybody will be clawing each other's throats over. I mean, what do you think would happened if we had a depression like the one we had in the 30's? Or even worse, a stock market crash and an even more horrible dust bowl?

Those cities will be more like a wooden shack than a city, ready to be kicked over.




posted on May, 31 2006 @ 11:34 PM
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Well I have a question, I truly beleive that Israel will attack Iran and that will be there war, that is my argument about America imploding, he stated that the war in Iran was important, if we are not directly involved, which I dont beleive we will then what? Why would Israel not lead the war against Iran? Iran want the twelth riech (sp?) by destroying Israel. So the question I pose is why would Israel not lead the Iran war?



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 11:38 PM
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US is kind of going downward. That's a shame. I think the people are cool. But I hate the government and Bush. US has been making alot of poor decisions lately. Lets see what they do with the Iran situation.



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 12:59 AM
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In my opinion, this Professor doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. He is just trying to make money off of this war, by writing a book, and this thread is his commercial. At the very bottom of the page from the link the original poster gave us, it says this...



This is an edited extract from Failed States by Noam Chomsky (Hamish Hamilton), £16.99. To buy it for £15.50 (inc p&p), call Independent Books Direct on 0870 079 8897.


PLUG.

And also, we have only lost an estimated 3,000 troops since 2003 in the middle east. And that's including the 113 UK troops lost with the US. In Vietnam there was 47,000 deaths. I dont know why, but people seem to think our military is "spread out thin". Its not... please dont under estimate the size of the US Military.

Politically we are still hanging in there, nothing to be affraid about.


Originally posted by mr conspiracy
An inability to protect its citizens.


Here in Los Angeles, the LAPD and other city police departments have everything under control. Plus there hasen't been a terrorist attack in the US since 9/11. So this claim is false.


Originally posted by mr conspiracy
The belief that it is above the law.


The only one that believes that is the Professor that wrote it.


Originally posted by mr conspiracy
A lack of democracy.


Maybe.



[edit on 1-6-2006 by LAES YVAN]



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 01:46 AM
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Noam Chomsky "America's greatest thinker"


Please show proof of this....


Of course there is none as liberalism is, at it's foundation, anti-intellect, pro-hegemonic.

The biggest threat to the US is the leftwing elitist disinformationalists and their cadre of small brained robots.

Thank God they can't take our guns....yet.



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 02:47 AM
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When I was growing up in the 80's there was a huge amount of talk about the NWO within my high school - everyone was stating their distrust of the establishment and of authority and how the educational institutions were dumbing down the system - now this generation, with all it's apathy and disillusionment is starting to come of age and into positions of power here in America.

I see it all the time in the entertainment industry and in the journalistic observations of just about every mainstream media outlet out there...these kids are the speechwriters, journalists, writers and so-called progressive thinkers of the times.

Granted - I'm not the most optimistic person out there, but I'm nowhere as delusional as these kids - who don't seem to realize that by putting their slant on everything they do - their disdain for being raised in single parent homes or families that essentially ignored them because of the widespread two parent income - they they are now the defining generation out there.

They still retain their anger, their apathy and angst, as well as their dislike of the system in general - even though they are now the ones with the power to change things for the better, they still continue on with their childish notions.

I'm embarrassed it's coming to this, and the generation coming up behind us isn't much better. They're ruder than we ever were, socially competitive in the most childish ways concievable and obsessed with their technogagets and toys.

But to call Noam Chomsky someone out for a fast buck?

That only goes to show how deep rooted the ignorance has really gotten.



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 02:53 AM
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Alright well simply taking a glance at the posts in this thread. Do some research on Noam Chomsky. If he had any talent for film production Fahrenheit 9/11 to him would be viewed as "Right Wing Propaganda."



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 03:05 AM
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Fahrenheit 9/11 WAS propaganda.

Anything that fails to present an unbiased look at both sides of the issue and attmept to sway the audience to it's viewpoint is propaganda.

I'm somewhat of a liberal, but with conservative values as well. I'm extremely objective, very middle of the road.

Sick to death of these extremist viewpoints and the tactics of both sides.

I gave up on politics years ago, and my vote for Nade may be a "wasted vote", but I've heard the man speak in person and he's not a panderer to stupidity.

As far as the world going to hell in an handbasket - it has more to do with the pointing of fingers and lack of responsibility on the part of the presented participants.

Ultimately, when it comes down to it - it's more how we live our lives as individuals than how we try to fruitlessly create committies and agendas under the guise of an illusion of power.

The situation in America has gotten ridiculous and I've developed a sincere dislike for people and their opinions.

We can berate the Powers That Be all day - but when was the last time any of us went out and helped feed the homeless, build a house for a family in poverty or participated in helping a complete stranger in a worse situation than ourselves?

We're just microchasms of the larger macro.

In fact, I seriously doubt anyone would sacfice their time online for a community cause just for the heck of it.

It's easy to point fingers, complain and theorize - much different to actually get up and do anything about it.

And don't rip on me for this - I donated over 7 years of my time counseling runaways and working with the homeless in my twenties.

You just don't see or hear much of the younger generations doing anything like that these days - and whether or not it's an acurate reflection or not - it just reaffirms the downslide this entire nation has taken in regards to individual responsibility and community awareness. Without that foundation in a grassroots arena - how can we even begin to judge those working on a world scale?



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 04:43 AM
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..i'm afraid prof. Noam Chomskey is smart, but not as smart as he thinks himself to be. He seems to believe that bull about Terrorists (inside job folks, as you will soon see), and he underestimates the Rebel class. Just as the bu#es and fundie RR's are, which shall Prove to Our advantage.
amerika is teetering wildly, but she aint 'fell' just yet. Some of us are still breathing. And even though we are not invited, we Will be coming to the premature 'farewell' party..with friends.

Oh, i know, can hear the snickers from here. People laugh at 'conspiracy theories' but then when something happens they get all confused and ask "whats going on?"
Nothing makes sense, does it....
Well..just for once, try to stopping laughing, open your eyes, Question the possibilities Yourself and it will make Perfect sense. Hang the lables..Get Out of the box and see the world for what it is.

Firstly, america was never a democracy..it is a Federation. And it was Designed from it's Very Inception to fail..a mere stepping stone laboratory for the elite whom dreamed of running a NWO, a One Gov, One World, New World Order. (sound familiar?) They have been trying to get it up and going for Centuries.
"The new world" gave them the Perfect chance..with guess who as their benifactors.. The Religious Right. (Some things Never change) Greed makes people stupid and careless.

Highschool got me digging into this because the insipid drivel they taught just did not make sense. So i dug deeper, taking years upon years, using all manner of reliable and dubious sources, and a picture finally emerged that Did make sense, but it is gloomy.
Here and there a few global leaders have thrown a wrench into the Elitist works, either by their mad with power megalomaniac botching (hitler, one of their own) or by sharp witted insight (Alexi K. )..or else it would already have been complete and we would not be discussing it Here.

IF they should win..your world as you know it is going to change.
Their Ace in the hole? Star Wars. Our Ace?..having been invisible all this time. They do not know who we are.
But, they do know we exist. This is why they spy internally, as if we would be stupid enough to use any of those systems. lol. Underestimating your enemy is the main cause of failure.

What the Fundie RR doesn't realise is that when(if) the Elite Secure their precious NWO..the RRFundies will get the steel toed boot just like everybody else. Megalomaniacs do Not share. Duh?
Dear, dear Fundies..do you Seriously expect to dance with the devil and expect it to Behave?
My gawd in heaven, how dumb can you be.
Do you Not see..that by the despicable practices you are using..you have Become the Very thing you profess to Hate?

IF you truely Believe the trash you spout, you must Know that you are in Grave trouble with your maker for this Horrible atrocity you are planning..given it's deep roots in dark places, it is Extremely doubtful you will be allowed to succeed.

Meanwhile..go ahead..knock yourselves out..less work for us. Fight like fools in a burning house. Cos, burning it is, even if you choose not to see it. The Earth is changing. Physically.
You see, dear fundies, drowning in your singleminded holier than thou agenda You are also underestimating the Purpose of the Elite..whom have their Own agenda.
And it does Not include You. The beast you have been feeding is about to bite.

Enter the third faction..the invisibles..whom have been watching you for a Very long time and we will be coming out of the shadows everywhere when you stage your final assault.
We have done our homework, and we will not go down easy, or alone.
Thanks to you, We have nothing left to loose.
Our Only agenda is Life.

cya on the dance floor



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 05:50 AM
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....does being an EMT, First Responder count for community service? & a Volunteer for many years before that.
Getting all self righteous on people for having opinions and sharing talk (Amendment 1) does Not make much sense coming from middle of the road non voters..that's a Big part of the problem, when too many are parked in the middle, not enough are out there Doing something to Help the situation. & the funny/sad thing is..they are usually the ones who yell the loudest when things go wrong *sighs*

How we live our daily lives, yes, means a Lot indeed, but if one sticks their head in the sand and ignores the problems instead of actually working for change, they have no valid right to complain do they.



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by Apoc


Of course there is none as liberalism is, at it's foundation, anti-intellect, pro-hegemonic.

The biggest threat to the US is the leftwing elitist disinformationalists and their cadre of small brained robots.

Thank God they can't take our guns....yet.


What's really anti-intellect is you the people still arguing beteen liberals and conservatives while the establishment laughs at you. It's the establishment who is behind all forms of liberalism and conservatism, because division is what keeps them in the place they are. The people can't unite against them, and they don't care. The only thing that matters to them is money and power that ensures they keep their money and make more at the cost of everybody else.

A hint: Whatch the "Money Masters" video's on google.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by TheBandit795]



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 07:35 AM
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we all know this is true now. one very interesting thing i viewed about four years ago was a video about where america was going. the presenter had someone on say the following.

the people from europe who run this world think that americans are over privilaged dimwits, who do not know what freedom means. while most of the world suffers, americans could not care less, just as long as there lives were great and others suffered. he reckoned that the ruling elite in europe wanted americans to find out what freedom actually means, because if youve never had lost your freedom, you do not understand what it means to be free in the first place.

if that is what they have planned for americans, then so be it. americans will just keep laughing at others while there freedoms gets eroded to, and the bizarre thing is americans won't know they have lost there freedoms.

just imagine being monitored 24 hours a day, having every thought being logged. people on the outside manipulating your lives, without you knowing it.

what do americans think all those 100's of thousands of people do working for intelligence agencies do all day.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by andy1033]



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 09:44 AM
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Noam Chomsky is, as has been shown on this thread earlier, enormously respected both within the USA and in the rest of the world.

There's been little or no debate here about what he has actually said, it's been largely a prolonged attempt by some to howl down his views simply as - somehow - "un-American", 'lefty', 'liberal' or outright 'communist'.

This is, IMO, a tragic perversion of what the US is supposed to be about.
Actually it might even once have been considered treasonous, such is the distance between the USA's founding ideals and where she is now.

Afterall if the USA isn't supposed to be, first and foremost, all about freedom (to speak and hold various, sometimes unique views, amongst many other freedoms) then what is it?

The entire 'state' of the USA was founded on the desire of those who wished to escape being told what was required or acceptable to do and think, wasn't it?

......and in this respect at least Chomsky is 100% correct, it is quite obvious that those inspiring and high ideals have indeed been defeated.

We can see it from many American posters here day in day out, it's pretty obvious that there is an element within the USA that would be far more comfortable with a single (approved) message, 'wholesomely and patriotically right-wing American'!, totalitarian state (just so long as it did match their own narrow prejudices, obviously).
Tom Paine must be rolling in his grave at high rpms.

Wrapping ones' self in 'the flag', invoking 'God' every other word and droning on with empty clichés about 'our boys' is no free pass to do *whatever*.....or at least it ought not to be.

Criticism of the policies of the various governments of the USA is not 'Un-American'.
It is, in fact, wholly 'American' to question and debate the conduct of authority, especially the state's authority, isn't it?

Criticism of the policies of the government of Israel is not anti-Semitic, it is simply to exercise your free speech and air ones' views, quite normal and nothing to do with anti-Semitism (Chomsky, from a Jewish family himself, an anti-Semite? Please.
)

Chomsky might not be 100% correct in every instance (and he has never claimed to be either) but he does raise well researched and articulated views on events and considers how we got to where we are now and how we might help make things better in making better choices in regard to where we go from now.

You might not like hearing what he has to say but to attempt to simply try to write his views off as either some ridiculous vain-glorious attempt at self-flattery or out of time hippy-dom or as some ludicrously dangerous notion of 'un-American-ism' is ignorance of the highest order IMO.

(and those making such claims really don't know a lot about the man if they really think that kind of stuff)


[edit on 1-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]


bih

posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by Gools
Invasion is not possible without a draft.

Airstrikes to bomb them back to the stone age while leaving the oil facilities intact and working from within (already underway) to install another puppet? - let's call him Shaw II - definitely in the cards.

Whether or not those cards are played is up to whoever has the authority to give the orders...

wait!?...


.


thats funny stone age?? I see theres alot of americans that live worse then stone age.so please



posted on Jun, 2 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
This is, IMO, a tragic perversion of what the US is supposed to be about.
Actually it might even once have been considered treasonous, such is the distance between the USA's founding ideals and where she is now


Depends in what you believe the US is about. If its about free speech and freedom of expression then thats what we see here. His views are IMO rather extreme and unfounded at least and possibly meant to cause as much in regards to the article posted at the beginning of this thread. As far as treason anyone can yell the word out but very few people have ever been tried for treason.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Afterall if the USA isn't supposed to be, first and foremost, all about freedom (to speak and hold various, sometimes unique views, amongst many other freedoms) then what is it


Yes thats what the US is about. But the freedoms extend to all not just to those who trash the forementioned nation.


Originally posted bby sminkeypinkey
The entire 'state' of the USA was founded on the desire of those who wished to escape being told what was required or acceptable to do and think, wasn't it?


Absolutely so why can't I say what I think about Chomsky without being called a neo-con or a typical ignorant right-wing american.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
......and in this respect at least Chomsky is 100% correct, it is quite obvious that those inspiring and high ideals have indeed been defeated


Not in the least IMO. Chomsky has said what he wanted and is still a free man. Yes he has been criticized. Quite rightfully IMO because many people here evidently believe him to be wrong.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
We can see it from many American posters here day in day out, it's pretty obvious that there is an element within the USA that would be far more comfortable with a single (approved) message, 'wholesomely and patriotically right-wing American'!, totalitarian state (just so long as it did match their own narrow prejudices, obviously)


You've in your post condemned posters here for labeling Chomsky a lefty, liberal commie. But then you turn right around and label them as right-wing, totalitarian and narrow minded. A word of advice "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Wrapping ones' self in 'the flag', invoking 'God' every other word and droning on with empty clichés about 'our boys' is no free pass to do *whatever*.....or at least it ought not to be


Absolutely but turning around and putting yoursellf at the oppositte end of that spectrum really won't convince anybody of your position.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Criticism of the policies of the various governments of the USA is not 'Un-American'.
It is, in fact, wholly 'American' to question and debate the conduct of authority, especially the state's authority, isn't it


Once again you're correct dissent in any form isn't unamerican
But supporting your government isn't unamerican either. People have always been free to speak their minds the only thing that stops them is themselves.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Criticism of the policies of the government of Israel is not anti-Semitic, it is simply to exercise your free speech and air ones' views, quite normal and nothing to do with anti-Semitism (Chomsky, from a Jewish family himself, an anti-Semite? Please


You are once again correct my friend. Race, religion, ethnicity get thrown around way to often in our society. And just about everyone is guilty of it.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Chomsky might not be 100% correct in every instance (and he has never claimed to be either) but he does raise well researched and articulated views on events and considers how we got to where we are now and how we might help make things better in making better choices in regard to where we go from now


Yes but he also has an agenda like everyone else in politics. He said somethings that would rally his base and antagonise his opponents.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
You might not like hearing what he has to say but to attempt to simply try to write his views off as either some ridiculous vain-glorious attempt at self-flattery or out of time hippy-dom or as some ludicrously dangerous notion of 'un-American-ism' is ignorance of the highest order IMO


The same applies to the other side of the isle. A person who backs Bush must be given the same benefits. That is not to be dismissed as a warmonger or fascist or what have you.



posted on Jun, 2 2006 @ 07:39 PM
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Chomsky is not in politics, he's a scholar. A linguist, to be exact. Brilliant ground-breaking work in that field as well.

The military/industrial machine will march all over your freedom of expression when the time comes. Trans-national corporations have no patriotism. The founding fathers had nightmares about a government run by them.

That's why America is defeated. They've stage a global economic coup and soon they will no longer need you. You've been inducted into their system of public subsidy of private profits.

"Capitalism by banker is more dangerous to our young country than any standing army." - John Adams

"The rich will always strive to establish their dominion and enslave the rest. They always did. They always will. They will have the same effect here as elsewhere, if we do not, by government, keep them in their proper spheres." - Governor Morris

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce. And when you realize that the entire system is controlled one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate." - James Garfield

"The money powers prey upon a nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more violent than aristocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy" - Abraham Lincoln

Both lincoln and Garfield were assasinated. Wonder if it had anything to do with what they said.



posted on Jun, 2 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by clearwater
Chomsky is not in politics, he's a scholar. A linguist, to be exact. Brilliant ground-breaking work in that field as well.


C,mon man. What ever you call him or what ever he calls himself he has made political statements. And just because his statements are critical of the government that doesn't mean he can't be criticized or challenged on his opinions.


Originally posted by clearwater
The military/industrial machine will march all over your freedom of expression when the time comes. Trans-national corporations have no patriotism. The founding fathers had nightmares about a government run by them.


I'm really not quivering in my boots waiting for the end times. The founding fathers were more worried about an all powerful federal government than anything else. In that they were right the feds have to much power.


Originally posted by clearwater
That's why America is defeated. They've stage a global economic coup and soon they will no longer need you. You've been inducted into their system of public subsidy of private profits.


Oh, thats why. I thought it was because

1- The government couldn't protect its citizens.
2- The government is above the law.
3- Lack of democracy.

I'm sorry my friend I've been hearing about the NWO taking over for a long time now and needless to say it still hasn't happened. And theirs' a reason for that. Those same right-wing conservative red neck yanks have alot of firepower in their possession. If you think Iraq is a mess well that will look like Grenada compared to what they'll get if they try to pull that kind of crap here.


Originally posted by clearwater
"Capitalism by banker is more dangerous to our young country than any standing army." - John Adams


Absolutely, I'm not a believer in Darwinian economics. But I'll tell you what I'm a believer of. I believe in the people of this nation. The American Nation. Because when they get enough of the crap Bush, Kerry and the Kennedys' have been handing them. They will make it known. I also now that when it comes to that it will be the "good ole' boys" that will be the ones taking it to the elitist class made up of men like Chomsky.


Originally posted by clearwater
"The rich will always strive to establish their dominion and enslave the rest. They always did. They always will. They will have the same effect here as elsewhere, if we do not, by government, keep them in their proper spheres." - Governor Morris


As far as the rest of your post you can quote important historical figures all you want from the looks of their statements they dealt with same problems we're dealing with now.

Oh, Lincoln was assassinated by John Wilkes Both who was a ardent supporter of the Confederacy the movement that he crushed. Garfield was assassinated by an anarchist(he was the President). So was McKinley for that matter. I find it pretty odd that the only President to ever acknowledge the existence of the military industrial complex lived to a ripe old age.



posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by danwild6
His views are IMO rather extreme and unfounded at least and possibly meant to cause as much in regards to the article posted at the beginning of this thread.


- "Extreme"!?
Well the facts and history he relays are certainly not what the 'mainstream' will tell you that's for sure, but I certainly wouldn't call Chomsky an 'extremist'.



But the freedoms extend to all not just to those who trash the forementioned nation.


- I would never claim otherwise.....and I certainly don't call criticising any particular government policy "trashing" a nation.
I am merely pointing out that rather than tolerate Chomsky's views and debate them some posters would prefer to try and howl him down as "un-American".


why can't I say what I think about Chomsky without being called a neo-con or a typical ignorant right-wing american.


- You can, I never said otherwise.


Chomsky has said what he wanted and is still a free man. Yes he has been criticized. Quite rightfully IMO because many people here evidently believe him to be wrong.


- I'd rather see people say what they find wrong as opposed to hiding behind a term like "un-American".


You've in your post condemned posters here for labeling Chomsky a lefty, liberal commie. But then you turn right around and label them as right-wing, totalitarian and narrow minded.


- I don't see why identifying bigotry makes one a bigot (which seems to be your argument here).
It's quite clear there are people here condemning Chomsky for everything but what he has actually said and I criticised that, not the fact that some people prefer a different brand of politics to me.
Calling an Alf Garnet/Archie Bunker for what he (or she) is doesn't make you one.


Absolutely but turning around and putting yoursellf at the oppositte end of that spectrum really won't convince anybody of your position.


- I don't get what you mean here.
All I'm saying is that superficial appeals to some idea of 'patriotism' or 'God' are not a free pass to do anything one likes.


Once again you're correct dissent in any form isn't unamerican


- Glad to see there are some things here we can agree upon.


But supporting your government isn't unamerican either.


- No it is not, I have never said as much either.
I would go as far as saying a totally uncritical support probably is though.


People have always been free to speak their minds the only thing that stops them is themselves.


- Maybe this is where we differ the most.
I think (as an outsider) that I am seeing a level of a strange combination of right-wing and religious chauvinism I have not seen before at a level I have not seen before in America.


You are once again correct my friend. Race, religion, ethnicity get thrown around way to often in our society. And just about everyone is guilty of it.


- Nice, some more agreement.



Yes but he also has an agenda like everyone else in politics. He said somethings that would rally his base and antagonise his opponents.


- I am not blind to the fact that he has his 'schtick' but I'd say he is far from empty rhetoric.
He is, unlike many many people, incredibly well researched. You might refute his conclusions but I don't think he has ever been successfully accused of lying about his work.
Ever.


The same applies to the other side of the isle. A person who backs Bush must be given the same benefits. That is not to be dismissed as a warmonger or fascist or what have you.


- I 100% agree, but then that wasn't my complaint.

I don't think this is about the average Bush supporter.
I think this is about the level of the 'Fox-ist' approach, the 'Limbaugh-ism', that blinkered asinine partisan hostility that I think has grown and which is quite notable (and rather disturbing) in the US 'body politic' today.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
"Extreme"!? Well the facts and history he relays are certainly not what the 'mainstream' will tell you that's for sure, but I certainly wouldn't call Chomsky an 'extremist'


Okay extreme was probably a poor choice of words. But he was making a statement that many would disagree with and the arguements he used to support his statement were IMO inflamatory to say the least


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I would never claim otherwise.....and I certainly don't call criticising any particular government policy "trashing" a nation.
I am merely pointing out that rather than tolerate Chomsky's views and debate them some posters would prefer to try and howl him down as "un-American"


Okay point taken
Maybe I was being a little defensive. I'm by no means a Bush supporter but when confronting what I would term to be anti-americanism I've frequently been labeled with the term right-wing, neo-con etc. etc


Originally posted by smineypinkey
You can, I never said otherwise


Wasn't referring to you specifically. Just that I have seen on this site that if you take a conservative stance on an issue or you defend your country against what I would call ignorance your often attacked as being ignorant or your referred to as a typical american or typical yank. I cringe when these huge generalizations are made. There is no such thing as a typical American. America is a huge place with many diverse people who hold many differing views


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I'd rather see people say what they find wrong as opposed to hiding behind a term like "un-American


Absolutely labeling someone is usually used to discredit a persons stance rather than debate it. But that has been going on since the printed media was developed and probably alot longer than that. My suggestion would be to ignore those who label and demonize rather than argue with them. I think thats what they get off on the most. But several posters including myself have dealt directly with his statements


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I don't see why identifying bigotry makes one a bigot (which seems to be your argument here). It's quite clear there are people here condemning Chomsky for everything but what he has actually said and I criticised that, not the fact that some people prefer a different brand of politics to me


Great point
My point however was that you condemned people for their unwillingness to debate the issue and to label someone without challenging their ideas. But then you seemed to make the same mistake but I can see now how I was mistaken. Chomsky has a position that IMO needs to be challenged the people you were attacking didn't have a position or at least chose not to debate on it

Brilliant as usual sminkey



Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
No it is not, I have never said as much either.
I would go as far as saying a totally uncritical support probably is though


Agree 100%


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Maybe this is where we differ the most.
I think (as an outsider) that I am seeing a level of a strange combination of right-wing and religious chauvinism I have not seen before at a level I have not seen before in America


Politics have been nasty in America since before we became America(or at least the United States of America). There is nothing new in that. The combination of the right wing and the religious majority is also nothing new. There is a major difference though. There used to be an effective oppostion to this alliance. But the Dems and groups like the ACLU as well as moderate organizations have been silent for far to long in their opposition to Bush. But there IMO isn't anything stopping them from taking Bush on. In 2004 they had the perfect candidate in Gov. Dean and they copt out and nominate a guy who for the better part of the campaign tries out republican the republicans. I remember his statement when asked if he knew then what he knew now would he support the war in Iraq. He said he would



Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I am not blind to the fact that he has his 'schtick' but I'd say he is far from empty rhetoric. He is, unlike many many people, incredibly well researched. You might refute his conclusions but I don't think he has ever been successfully accused of lying about his work


Agreed he has some very good arguements. Whether he has lied or miss stated facts that often depends as Obi Wan said on your point of view

A political science professor of mine once asked his class if anyone thought political partisanship and the mudslinging that accompanies it was worse now than ever before. He said if you thought so you would earn an automatic F in his class. He was joking of course(about the F). If you look back at our history things are now comparably much more civilized

[edit on 3-6-2006 by danwild6]



posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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It seems to me that more people here should read up on Noam Chomsy.

Every argument he makes is well researched and well-founded.

He is widely considered the foremost intellectual in the US.

Condemning him on the basis of a couple of lines quoted from a newspaper article on him shows lazy thinking. A little online research will bring up the man's own words in context. There isn't another political thinker alive today more worth reading, IMHO.



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