Christians claim privilege over others

Born again Christians, especially, seem to have a "Holier than though" mentality, which can be seen quite regularly right here on this site. And of course, they all feel that they are the only ones good enough to get into heaven, and everyone else is going to hell. Sorry, I don't buy that egocentricity.

Cultural privileges for Christianity come up when Christians insist that their religion deserves special recognition, extra deference, and more respect. Sometimes, Christians act as though other religions are inferior and don’t merit equal consideration. Examples of this include the claim that only “Merry Christmas” is acceptable while “Happy Holidays” is not, or the idea that Christian holidays, but not non-Christian ones, can be recognized as government holidays.

source: atheism.about.com...

I have never seen in my life one religion that insists so adamantly that they know everything and that they are the only ones that will be "Saved." If Jesus were alive today, he would want to know what the hell all these born agains are doing and wonder who the hell they think they are. They all act like mini-Messiahs...or, in other words, false prophets!

A common defense of Christian privilege is the idea that Christians are a majority, and in a democracy, the majority rules. If Christians want to shape legal, political, and cultural institutions to express their religious values and to privilege both Christianity, that’s what being a Christian Nation is all about. In a liberal democracy, however, the rights and equality of all are protected. Christians can no more vote to privilege Christianity than whites can vote to privilege their race.

What is a "Christian Nation" anyway? What happened to separation of church and state?

What is it about some people that they have such a pressing psychological need to feel superior to someone — anyone — in society? There are men who need women to be inferior, Christians who need non-Christians to be inferior, religious believers who need nonbelievers and atheists to be inferior, citizens who need foreigners to be inferior, and heterosexuals who need gays to be inferior. Why can’t those who are different be equal in their differences?

This is a great paragraph. What is the character flaw that makes these people (born agains) need to feel superior to anyone with a different belief? What makes born agains any better than members of White Supremist organizations?

Americans, and I mean citizens of the United States, tend to think that this "majority rule" thing applies to every part of life and governance. In fact, our Republic is based on the idea that really only in the case of elections does majority rule. Most of the rest of it is based on the idea that we must be always on-guard against the
Tyranny of the Majority

G-d Bless America!

Well when you have a father and/or mother telling their child that "that guy is probably gonna go to hell because (insert sin here)", it's more than likely that child will think the same.

I grew up with that crap, and as a youngster I kinda did feel superior to other religions. As I got older however I realized the hipocracy of the ways in which I was taught, and am now regarded as a "heretic". Christianity isn't a fair and just religion. Sure Jesus says "Judge not", but on the other hand you have churches telling people that by being gay you're going to hell... it's kinda hard for the believers NOT to judge.

A pity really. Luckily the past couple generations are realizing the errors of organized religion and are seeking their own answers, as opposed to following their local pastor like sheep. The lack of tightly knit communities is a big factor. It's easier to think for yourself if everyone around you doesn't shun you.

I think it's impossible to tell what our Founding Fathers really intended in the formation of this country. Many quotes attributed to them support both sides:


"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors."

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

-James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance" 1785

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"

-John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"

-John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."

-From The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine

COMPARE these with:

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this - that it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." - John Quincy Adams

"The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband." - Thomas Jefferson

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited.... What a utopia, what a paradise would this region be." - John Adams

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams


So what gives? Are there any Founding Father experts out there? I see hundreds and hundreds of quotes from these guys that contradict each other. My guess is that their views changed over time and these quotes were taken from different time-periods. But my point, there is material that supports both the notion that this nation was created from a Christian heritage and also that this nation was created IN ORDER so that it would be FREE from Christian heritage. These guys bad-mouth religion and Christianity but then turn around and praise it. Maybe they publicly supported it but privately, they were disgusted with the infringement of Christianity on the rights of men.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."

-From The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine

This is a great quote. As far as I'm concerned, one needs faith but not religion!

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
If Jesus were alive today, he would want to know what the hell all these born agains are doing and wonder who the hell they think they are.

I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else. I'm sorry if it comes across that way. I have a question, and I am not in the least placing myself above you. When the term born again is used in regards to christianity, it simply means that a person's dead spirit has been brought back to life. All people are born with a dead spirit because of the sin "disease" we have inherited. To be born again means someone has received Jesus Christ as their Savior for the forgiveness of sins and The Holy Spirit indwells that person and brings their dead spirit back to life.

John.3
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus is the one who brought this term into existance.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Born again Christians, especially, seem to have a "Holier than though" mentality, which can be seen quite regularly right here on this site.

Do you have any idea how many other nouns I could use in place of 'Born again Christians', and still have the above statement be true?

I would suggest that it has far more to do with being human than with being Christian.

[edit on 10-5-2006 by Duzey]

Is there a chance of Jesus being sarcastic when he said that?

Probably not, I just figure I'd throw that out there...

I hope everyone understands that the bible doesn’t teach people to act “Holier Than Thou”, quite the opposite actually. Jesus taught his followers to love everyone, to treat them like we want to be treated. It’s not our place to judge others; it’s our place to show love to others.

I believe if you try to use your salvation against someone to damn them you are going against the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament and put yourself at risk.

Blessings....

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Born again Christians, especially, seem to have a "Holier than though" mentality, which can be seen quite regularly right here on this site. And of course, they all feel that they are the only ones good enough to get into heaven, and everyone else is going to hell.

Sorry, I don't buy that egocentricity.

You shouldn’t buy that egocentricity. Born agains are no “Holier” than any one else. The Bible says that ALL have sinned. No one gets to heaven because they are good.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I have never seen in my life one religion that insists so adamantly that they know everything and that they are the only ones that will be "Saved." If Jesus were alive today, he would want to know what the hell all these born agains are doing and wonder who the hell they think they are. They all act like mini-Messiahs...or, in other words, false prophets!

Jesus called this church period neither hot nor cold, and said if we didn’t change He’d spew us out of His mouth.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
What is a "Christian Nation" anyway? What happened to separation of church and state?

Jesus said to render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s and to God that which is God’s.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
What is the character flaw that makes these people (born agains) need to feel superior to anyone with a different belief? What makes born agains any better than members of White Supremist organizations?

IMHO a Christian is one who follows Christ. What did Christ say? He said follow the commandments (the 10 from Moses) repent your sins and to love the Lord God with all your heart. He also said to love ONE ANOTHER! You cannot feel superior to others or judge others if you do this.

There is nothing wrong with saying you do not believe in abortion or homosexuality. There is a lot wrong with calling people baby killers or telling them that they are going to hell. Christians don’t decide who goes to heaven or hell. God does. If you don’t believe in God or heaven or hell, it is your decision. I am a Christian and I use the Bible to guide how I live my life. I am not perfect, but I am forgiven.

I have to say..there has been some really good discussion on here on this topic.

I have a question, and I am not in the least placing myself above you. When the term born again is used in regards to christianity, it simply means that a person's dead spirit has been brought back to life. All people are born with a dead spirit because of the sin "disease" we have inherited. To be born again means someone has received Jesus Christ as their Savior for the forgiveness of sins and The Holy Spirit indwells that person and brings their dead spirit back to life.

This is confusing. First of all, there is no question. Secondly, we are born with dead spirits? That makes absolutely no sense at all. We didn't inherit any sin disease. If this is your belief, fine....but don't preach it like it's some kind of fact...because it most certainly isn't! If I don't take Jesus, a mortal prophet, as my savior, my spirit remains dead? Give me a break. This is what I'm talking about. You feel that if I don't do what you say, I'm not going to be saved. Who are you to tell me this? Are you another false prophet?

I have a question: Why do you born agains have 2 Gods? I have one higher power in my life and I choose to call him God. There isn't a second God named Jesus. My spirit isn't dead pal. I have faith and I have serenity without having to succumb to your egocentric nonsense! WE ALL GET SAVED. Get over your bad self. You and your kind aren't the only ones going to heaven....honestly, what makes YOU and your kind so special??

Wow!!!! I think you really went to public school and got a huge dose..and cant let go as of yet. Very provincial in your thinking pattern...

No problem excitable boy...I used to think the same way..or pattern before my conversion.


I wont bother quoting scripture to you as I dont think it would do any good. YOu dont seem to be able to see or hear it. No problem again.

Excitable boy. You tend to begin from a premise ...as to many unbelievers...that the material we are made from is good material...therefore ...we have a good starting point...from which to begin. A pass so to speak...a free pass to play through because we are made of good material.

Ask yourself a question Excitable boy... Do people have to be taught to do bad or badly. Do people by thier very natures need to be taught by thier parents to do wrong...or do they need the correction necessary to do good???

This should tell you something very fundamental about basic human nature.....as a starting point.

Another question...as a starting point..and this one really galls many unbelievers and athiests. Men ...historically have compiled records of the activities of men...history in short. What do the historical records say about Athiest nations. How many records do we have of athiest nations and how they treated their peoples?? How long did these nations last???
Take notice of how often this line of thought is presented in public schools?? Almost never...but it is very telling.

I would also suggest very strongly ..to take this line of thinking to the next step...from Athiesm to Paganism..and pagan religions...ie...Occult religions.
This is another avenue not covered in public education so as to give you thinking with only one possible outcome. Non Belief...athiesm...

One more thing excitable boy...when and if you ever come into the final knowlege of the pattern of things in this world....you are going to learn that the religion of "reasonable men" decends from paganism..and occult practices.
This is never explained or taught to us...in public schools..for good reason...you would then be able to see them teaching paganism and occult patterns in public schools to a very unknowlegable and inexperienced student body.
Many of the founding fathers were initiated into the religion of "reasonable men." All I have to do is read and recognize certain patterns in thier writings to know what they are and how they think. Thomas Jeffersons writings are full of the pattern of "reasonalbe men." There is however a bit more to his writings and the history of what he is speaking than most are even aware.

Excitable boy and others ..if you are ever mature enough to get this far...you can then take a close look at the concept of counterfits and counterfit doctrines...and begin to see them all around you under the guise of "reason". Counterfits and counterfit doctrines are quite common and easy to instill in a public raised on a television and public school "feel good" education. Especially if they dont know the difference. They often respond to a stimulus which is not thiers..and again they dont know the difference.

Another thing...excitable boy and others...many christians are sectarian..meaning seperated from. They do not want to wallow in the worlds poor standards in almost everything. They choose to seperate from most of this rubbish. To let it pass by. This tends to give offense to those who think they are "reasonable men." It is not as most think ..that they are better than others..it is just that they tend to seperate from most things in this world. Egocentric people tend to think that they feel better than others. Not so.
I dont have any use for dumbness among my fellow Believers either and there is alot of it..there too. I do however understand the concept of seperation...or being sectarian. The method and rationale of "reasonable men.." is always ..."non sectarianism" ...to put everyone in a huge jumbled perverted mass meaning nothing. I choose to seperate from this drivel. I have little use for it. Not that I am better than others..I just dont care for much of what passes for excellence among most of the public.

Well I could go on further ..much further ..but if you understand a little of what I posted..there is hope for you yet. Others too.

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom

That last post – the reply to excitable boy – is pretty much a PERFECT example of what this thread is about.

Whether or not it was meant that way, is anyone’s guess – the author may have not meant it to come across as condescending and holier-than-thou – BUT IT DID.

I’m going to re-hash some of that post, but say it in the way most people would interpret it –

First, a jab at someone because they may have went to public school – which, obviously, must be a bad thing if you get a “huge dose” -

Then, not quoting scripture because us heathens either won’t listen, or are too stupid to get it.

Then it kinda sounds like we’re all born bad, and without the religious guidance of the parents to correct this ‘badness’ we will most certainly turn out to be bad apples.

Then the idea that any nation throughout history that did not embrace religion, was doomed to begin with – but I wonder, which religion should a nation embrace, since all the major nations that obviously only survived because of a religion, all have a different major religion. Hmmmmm, did they cover that one in the obviously superior religious themed school of the author?

Then, of course, the knowledge that growing up without having the chosen religion of your parents shoved down your throat, will most certainly turn you into a pagan – the blood-drinking, dancing-naked-under-the-moon people that religious people are so afraid of.

Then we find out that the religions of “Reasonable Men” are silly little Pagan religions because they’re all “feel good” religions that help you make sense of things – When we all know that the only worthy religions are those of UNreasonable men, those that think science is nothing but ‘parlor tricks’ – those that will lock away people that don’t agree the world is flat or spout the blasphemy that the Sun does not revolve around the Earth. Those that ‘KNOW’ the world is only 4 or 5 thousand years old and those that “KNOW” Jesus was actually the one that went around burying all those dinosaur bones all over the world to confuse us poor stupid pagans 2000 years later.

Then we’re told that once we’re ‘mature’ enough to see things exactly like the author does, then we will attain enlightenment – until then, we’re lucky enough to have the wisdom of the ones that know the one and only truth to guide us and help us from stumbling off the straight and narrow path. Anything else is naturally a counterfeit, meant to cloud our judgement and send us to eternal damnation.

Then we find out that Christians don’t think they are ‘better than everyone else” – they just keep separate from everyone else who’s “less worthy” than they are. Wait a minute . . . Aren’t those the same two things?

Then, of course, we’re spared from any more judgement and condemnation . . . But fret not little lambs, with some understanding, there is hope that you too will one day be able to be as condescending and holier-than-thou, and have no idea you’re coming across that way.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As soon as "organized religion" stops acting like "organized crime" - and as soon as the religious texts stop contradicting themselves and stop reading like stereo instructions -AND as soon as someone can show proof as to which religion is "the one" . . . Then, let the condemnation begin - I mean they can't all be right, can they? Most of them say they are the ONLY way, the only one true way to have a nice afterlife NOT spent burning alive over and over and over - If they all are "the one" then which one is the "right one"? - If yours is "the one" then how do you know? what proof do you have? Others will say their "book" tells them theirs is the "right one" too - so which is it?

Faith is a good thing - Religion is not that bad a thing - Organized religion is the worst thing to EVER happen to mankind.

Jesus never rode a 'high horse' - why do so many of his followers?

That last post – the reply to excitable boy – is pretty much a PERFECT example of what this thread is about.

Amen. Can I get an Amen for this post from Paul IV??

But seriously....thank you Orange Tom for proving my point perfectly as Paul here so excellently pointed out!

Excitable boy and others ..if you are ever mature enough to get this far...you can then take a close look at the concept of counterfits and counterfit doctrines

You rag on public school in your post, but at least I learned how to spell in public school. Did they leave spelling out of your private school to make more room for cult worship and brainwashing classes?

Orange Tom...you my friend are a counterfeit prophet (note the spelling of counterfeit).

I would also suggest very strongly ..to take this line of thinking to the next step...from Athiesm to Paganism..and pagan religions...ie...Occult religions.
This is another avenue not covered in public education so as to give you thinking with only one possible outcome. Non Belief...athiesm...

Didn't they teach you anything in that private school? You think pagan and occult are the same thing? WRONG!

pa·gan
n.
One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.
A non-Christian.

Where does the occult come into play in this definition?

oc·cult
adj.
Of, relating to, or dealing with supernatural influences, agencies, or phenomena.
Beyond the realm of human comprehension; inscrutable.
Available only to the initiate; secret: occult lore. See Synonyms at mysterious.
Hidden from view; concealed

So in your brainwashed, cult worshipping background, you have been taught that a pagan is into the occult? They have nothing to do with each other!

It sounds to me like you and your kind (born agains) are into the occult (if you check out the definition above). If Jesus being killed and then resurrected isn't supernatural, I don't know what is! If Mary becoming pregnant by emaculate conception isn't supernatural, again, I don't know what is! If Adam making Eve from his rib isn't supernatural..........I can go on and on and on.

It appears you are into the occult Orange Tom. That's cool. I'm just into my faith and don't feel the need to push it on anyone. I have a higher power who I choose to call God. Why do you feel the need to have 2 Gods?

do you two need makeovers today.???

First off..I went to public school too. No private schooling here...I did, however , get over most of it.

As to the usage of the term ..occult and pagan..if you ever read real occult material..not the stuff of Barnes and Noble. You will see it in fact closely allied and connected to pagan traditions. Once again not covered in public school..even as history..for good reason.

The definitions used for occult ..as given in the post are very good and accurate. Well done.

What is not connected under those definitions of Occult...concealed..esoteric....is the connection to politics ..which even to the most ignorant is obviously occult/concealed. Any look at the evening news will clear this up..concerning the body politic. Hey ..while we are at it..does occult politics use science in its maneuverings??? It is not connected for good reason ..you might actually think outside the box someone wants you to stay in.

Paul the Fourth ..I dont beleive in the natural goodness of man..or mankind. That man can advance by degrees in the wisdom of this world..to better and better and best. Science or no science...it is not going to happen. Sorry ..thats just the way it is. Science of which "reasonable men " are wont to boast...may put us in better homes, cars, clothes, entertainment systems et al..but it will not make us better people ...not going to happen.
I am not against science mind you ..I just dont believe it is going to make us better people.

Oh..and Paul the Fourth..my parents did not bring us up in religion..not at all...it was not a staple in our house coming up.

OH..and again..while I am thinking about it..most of the nations recorded in history ..what were their religions...actually ..historically and how did their people fare ..economically...politically...how did they do??? Reasonable people would know this information.

If this began to change in certain nations..as to the standard of living of certain peoples..why did it change...what caused it??

I ask this because historically from most of what I can see ...things began to change only in the last ...say ...300 years ...and only in certain nations...not all nations/peoples of this earth. Why is that ?? Could the answer to this question ..be occult..concealed from the view or knowlege of most of us??? Curious here as to what you think.

And by the way...back to the question in my previous post....once again..how did or do Athiest nations ...do..economically, politically, the standard of living of their peoples?? I never did get a answer to this question..or position before going off on your tangents?? Can you folks follow this line of thinking?? Oh...and while I am at it ...since science exists in these athiest nations..how well is science doing in these nations ..to help the standard of living of the ordinary peon in these athiest nations?? Is that too covered in public school?? Could science in these athiest nations be a parlor trick..to keep the people on the string?? YOu know ..part of the political process...Occult??? Hidden concealed??

Im going to be deliberately facitious here ...and say that I really like it when some folks quote their real religion...science. Science to many is just the holy grail of everything. Amazing. Tell me again..please what science is doing in athiest nations to help the plight of the ordinary peon. You know ..like mainland China..or North Korea. How about in the former Soviet Union...how much did the religion of science help the ordinary peon??? Do they cover this in public schools.
Im not sure they even cover this in private schools??? Do you two know??

Gentlemen ..I really am not intrested in your martyrdom or "victimization" in your posts. If you want to make a point make it ...clearly ..not with such histronics...or drama. I can get that technique on television and I dont give makeovers for such antics.

Dont worry about spelling...that is bottom scraping..stay on point and make a point.

I never did get a answer to my questions about athiest nations???? How about it??

Lets start over.. I think you two can do better than such drama.
Gentlemen ..start your engines.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Christianity never copyrighted common sense. You're born with a brain, use it.

Deny pre-birth sin, deny heaven, deny hell, have a drink, get laid and live your life untill it ends. If you wanna limit yourself by following the Bible go ahead, I won't stop you, I'm just saying there are better things in life (not refering to only beer and tits, I mentioned it as a counterweight to pointless christian limitations)

[edit on 13-5-2006 by Panzeroth]

Panzeroth,

What is the title/topic on this thread???

Zooooooooooooommmmmmm!!!!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

Gentlemen ..I really am not intrested in your martyrdom or "victimization" in your posts. If you want to make a point make it ...clearly ..not with such histronics...or drama. I can get that technique on television and I dont give makeovers for such antics.

Dont worry about spelling...that is bottom scraping..stay on point and make a point.

I never did get a answer to my questions about athiest nations???? How about it??

Lets start over.. I think you two can do better than such drama.

Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. You don't answer my questions so why should I answer yours? And you are the drama queen here Tom...not us! There is no victimization in my posts sweetheart. No victim here drama queen. I have an excellent life. You are the one that appears unsettled....and unable to have a thought of your own.

You talk about China as being pagan? What about Buddhism? And Russia? Russia is full of Catholics, Jews, etc.....where's the pagans there? Do you have a clue what you are talking about? Is everyone that is not a Born Again Cult Worshipping Christian a pagan in your world?

Name an Atheist Nation Tommy. You can't? Why is that? Because there is no such thing. There are just nations. There are no Christian Nations, no Catholilc nations, no Protestant Nations....I guess there is one Jewish Nation - Israel (I bet there are some muslims living there though)....but other than that you can't classify one other nation as totally anything. Atheist Nations? I'll give you an example of what happened to pagan nations. Let's take Native Americans. Native Americans were doing just fine until the "white man" came and decided they were all "savages." 90% of them were killed in the name of Christianity. Many were killed if they refused to convert to Christianity. Is this what you were talking about Tommy? Christians don't have a great history Tommy - a lot of genocide that people like you are in denial of....

Wait a minute...what is that commandment? It's a big one....oh yeah "Thou shall not kill." If you make a human being into an animal in your mind, I guess it's okay to attempt to kill off entire races of people in the name of Christianity!

What happened to pagan nations? Blood thirsty Christians...that's what happened. There are no pagan nations today Tommy...why? Because blood thirsty Christians took care of them!....Killing in the name of Christ!

Zooooooooooooommmmmmm!!!!!


[edit on 13-5-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Once again you get it backwards. Your post flows with what appears to be good reason and logic..it just doesnt work out well.

The American Indians..who were they killing in the name of thier religion, customs , and traditions?? Especially the Central and South American Indians. Who were they killing when they werent killing other Indians. Is this in history books...how about Science?? You know..Anthropology, Archeology? How about just plain history?? Public Schooling???

One more thing...Christianity cannot be spread by the sword...killing as you state. There is no such instruction..Olde or New Testament. Those you claim are doing so..are operating outside of their instructions as a church. Meaning they have gone after other gods...and followed the traditions of men ..substituting this as if it was their original instructions from God. The word we use for this is Counterfit. There is ample historical records that this has gone on..often without people even being aware of it. It is concealed...hidden..from what it really is.

Yes I am aware of what the status of Russia today is ..what was in in the Soviet Days?? What was their religion?? Hegel...the state is god. This is athiesm..humanism..the ultimate deification of men...The State is god.
Which brings me to Communist China today. How many have they killed in the name of " The State is God??" How about North Korea. Get the picture yet about athiest nations. Like I said..it looks good by reason and logic...your position ..but watch what acatually happens historically. The thing I find most intresting today is that history pretty much avoids this line of reasoning...in favor of some kind of default to avoid it....thinking it through.
Marx..Engels..Lennin..amazing what they brought about in the name of " The State is god."
They are trying to bring that very religion about here ..and use science to support it. Philosophy. Its doing a good job too judging by some of the posts I've seen.

Sorry excitable boy..most nations today are in fact pagan..including this one...and thier leadership is very pagan. They just do a good job of keeping the public they intend to rule unaware of it. They keep them entertained , amused.
This should be very obvious by the response of the body politic to the Illegal Alien situation ..verses their desire to groom new voters...to keep and maintain power. Very occult here..hidden..concealed...silence.

excitable boy..once you understand that Christains have no such instruction to spread Christianity by the sword...it clears up alot. Those doing so cannot be Christain..but counterfits...pagans...operating under the guise of Christianity..not just here but in the European Continent also.

By the way...in the Olde Testament times ..the Nations surrounding Israel..who were they killing?? IN the name of thier gods and power??? Do you know?? YOu do know these were Pagan nations?? Who were they killing and slaughtering?? It is often very intresting to see this line of thought avoided in the blame game and victimization so popular today.

The tack you and others are wont to use ..is very effective..on those who are not well schooled in the Faith...and their public education is one of "victimization" and the blame game..without the whole picture. Very fashionable today.
It appears that you are going to have all the standard mantras of todays public schools. Well done..Please continue.

The brand of Paganism they teach from the speech podiums and finance in public schools is intended to do this very thing through standard mantras.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
This is confusing. First of all, there is no question. Secondly, we are born with dead spirits? That makes absolutely no sense at all. We didn't inherit any sin disease. If this is your belief, fine....but don't preach it like it's some kind of fact...because it most certainly isn't! If I don't take Jesus, a mortal prophet, as my savior, my spirit remains dead? Give me a break. This is what I'm talking about. You feel that if I don't do what you say, I'm not going to be saved. Who are you to tell me this? Are you another false prophet?

Excitable_Boy, I will use a Biblical perspective to attempt answering your questions. Adam and Eve were created perfect but with a free will. God told Adam and Eve that the day they ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil they would die. This was not a physical death but a spiritual one. When they disobeyed God, they were no longer perfect because they knew evil. All descendants were born in this imperfect condition. He created a way for redemption through offering His Son to die for our sins (evil). This is from the Bible not from me. I have no right to say anything about you personally. If I didn't believe the Bible, I wouldn't care what other people said about heaven or hell because that's from the Bible also.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I have a question: Why do you born agains have 2 Gods? I have one higher power in my life and I choose to call him God. There isn't a second God named Jesus. My spirit isn't dead pal. I have faith and I have serenity without having to succumb to your egocentric nonsense! WE ALL GET SAVED. Get over your bad self. You and your kind aren't the only ones going to heaven....honestly, what makes YOU and your kind so special??

Actually we have 3 Gods but they are all the same one God. I know it's a difficult concept to understand, but it is Biblical. Christians believe that only Christians are going to heaven. Well, Christianity is based on the Bible. It would follow then that if one wanted to understand Christianity, they would have to go by Bible concepts. I don't know what religion you adhere to, but it sounds like you are a dietist.

I don't know what heaven you are planning on going to, but you can rest assured that you won't have to deal with any Christians there. We have our own heaven. Yes, we belive in exclusivity. That is one of our basic concepts and I won't appologise for it. So unless you do what our rules (the Bible) says, you won't go to our heaven.

God created us with free will. We can choose to believe anthing we want, but it is not an excuse for Christians to bash others or others to bash Christians. Everything Christians believe is by faith. You faith is no better or worse than mine, it is only in a different place. Mine is in Jesus Christ and the Bible.

I agree with your original post, Born Agains should not act holier than thou. But we do have a right to state what we believe. Too many people don't understand the Bible because they don't take the time to study it. The Bible is only factual to those who believe it.

My question to you is, if you don't believe in the Bible, what difference does it make what Christians believe?