What happened to all the "miracles" from the bible?

posted by EdenKaia:
“It's an interesting question, does God reveal himself to believers . . just refer to Revelation . . this book is the most important for believers . . this book tells when and how God will reveal Himself . . to believers, God WILL reveal himself, in His own time, He will also reveal Himself to nonbelievers, though many will shun Him even then.

Religion is a matter of blind faith. When the issue of faith arises, it takes an event of great magnitude to loosen it, let alone to shake it to the core. Why? Christianity, Muslim, Buddhist, it doesn't matter . . there is one answer that stops you dead in your tracks and leaves mouth agape - "You have to have faith." The conversation is over. Might as well hold palaver with a brick wall. You might at least get an open mind out of a brick wall. [Edited by Don W]

I hold to the view that Europeans have for the most part, abandoned the major religions. While church attendance is way down at 10% that points less towards atheism, than real disillusionment with the old time religions. The 1914-1918 War had seen each of Britain, France, Russia and Germany lose several millions of men of marriageable age. In barely 21 years, one generation, it was a re-run of slaughter. Heaviest losses were subtend by Germany - 8 million - and Russia - 25 million. Where was God? Surely not in Europe.

The US lost 140,000 men in WW1 and 450,000 in WW2. As casualties go, not many. Religion is alive and well in the US. Whether knowledge will ultimately see the demise of religion, is not certain. Religion has proved remarkably versatile in the past, despite its contradictory claim to be “eternal.” As you have pointed out, E/K, faith overcomes reason in the believer.

[edit on 5/3/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Toadmund
So what does god do when god does his revealing to you?
How do you know it's god?

Because those thoughts are not my thoughts and--since I am both free of mental aberrations and blessed with above average mental skills--I know full well that the quality of thought (or revelation, if you prefer) is definitely not in my capabilities. As well, the understandings that are revealed to me are consistent with science and what we know of world history, both anthropological and archeological. In among all the connections now clear to me, which have solved many mysteries that I've wondered about all my life, there are amazing unknown and unprovable things revealed...some of which have been proven by new discoveries recently. In all cases, the consistency and logic of it all leaves me no doubt that it is not conjecture or imagination on my part (I'm not that good!).

God:
"Hey, howzit goin'!"

---"Who are you?"

'Right! Who is this really?'

No, nothing at all like when Bill Cosby does his 'Noah' skit on his 'Himself' album. God has no voice such as we recognize. Truly it is a still small whisper that comes totally from within.

God:
"I am the one for whomst thou seeketh!"
---"Who

, Daffy duck?"

I never sought God, but rather sought God's truth. Not my truth, but the truth. That which underlies everything that seems apparent on the surface.

Another thing I did was follow one simple directive (as best I could, that is): Love.

The following scriptures are truth, and have been proven empirically, to me, in my lifetime:

External source: KJV, Public Domain
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
(~John 14:17-24)

What 'sayings?' What 'commandments?' Not the 10 given to Moses, but the two upon which all the world rests:

External source: KJV, Public Domain
Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(~Matthew 22:37-40)

It's no great mystery to the independent seeker. Religion, however, has made this simple actuality seem both ludicrous and impossible. Legalism abounds, making both our purpose and destination appear other than what it truly is.

I feel certain that I am no anomaly--anyone loving truth and actively loving other people will come to the same sort of experience that changed my life in ways I cannot accurately describe with mere words.

Well, what you call the inner voice of god, I call the subconscious, or perhaps something extra-dimensional.
I know of what you speak, I am very intuitive, but, I am not ready to say it's god telling me this stuff.

Why would god inform me to buy a winning scratch ticket to win a walkman, but that's a whole nother story.

I'll believe when god speaks and identifies itself as such...or will I

Originally posted by AngelWings9999
If you ask the Heavenly Father, He will show you that it is True!

If you are sincere in your Heart, and you seek Him with all thy Heart & Soul, He Will Show You all that it is True!

But as Christ stood before Unbelievers there were times He Opened Not His Mouth and Answered them not, for He knew their Hearts! So one must be of a contrite heart, when asking & seeking His Truth & Mysteries!


[edit on 3-5-2006 by AngelWings9999]

[edit on 3-5-2006 by AngelWings9999]

Ok....well...

There are 2 problems here. 1, you assume that the bible only applies to Christian interpretation (I assume this from your reference to Jesus-god). I didn't say CHRISTIAN miracles, I said BIBLE miracles. Besides, were I to believe the book, I would believe the Jewish take on it, since they made it up first.

2, that says absolutely NOTHING about why we don't see miracles! The people with Moses didn't ask bible god to show them an insane miracle. They just happened to be with Moses when they saw them.

Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by truthseeka
We all know about those incredible miracles from the bible.

My question is, what happened to them? I think it would pretty crazy to see some of those miracles today.

truthseeka, here is a modern day miracle. Feel free to ask him what he thinks about his God.

Again, this says nothing about the miracles I speak of.

My fault, but personal testimony about a miracle means nothing here. It's just like people who say they have been abducted by aliens. Sure, it's possible, but it says nothing when that is the only evidence you have for it.

I'm talking about a miracle of biblical proportions (another bad pun ).

Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by Toadmund
darkelf, in your link there are things that should be paid attention to, to rule out divinity.

Then doesn't your response answer the OP's question of why there are no miracles? If he could observe all of the miracles he listed, would he believe or would he try to find scientific proof?

If an alien landed a ship on the whitehouse lawn, would you believe it if it said it was the creator? Or would you seek scientific proof?

The miracle is in the heart of the beholder.

Hate to break it to you, but there is no scientific "proof" for anything.

But, I guess you missed my post earlier. I would absolutely believe a miracle if I saw it. How the hell can science (at its current state, anyway) explain a sea splitting in half, with huge frickin walls of water just sitting there? Without an obvious source of energy for this?

Or, how about water transforming into blood? Toadmund, Moses must have had impeccable timing with the earthquakes releasing iron oxide. Or, an angel flying around killing people? How the HELL can science explain that?

Thus, that would truly be a miracle. Unfortunately, only people from back in the day saw this (the natural world somehow works different today). This leads me to believe that it's all made up or embellished; if embellished, it's still a lie because it's promoted as truth.

Originally posted by Toadmund
Well, what you call the inner voice of god, I call the subconscious, or perhaps something extra-dimensional.

I'm not calling it the inner voice of god, I'm saying that God reveals to each soul within, rather than from outside.

I know of what you speak, I am very intuitive, but, I am not ready to say it's god telling me this stuff.

Good--because it's not.
I am intuitive, as well---we all have that ability and it's just a matter of tuning in to it. But that's not the same thing that I'm talking about. I've had intuition all my life, but this is something beyond even that sort of 'knowing.'

Why would god inform me to buy a winning scratch ticket to win a walkman, but that's a whole nother story.

Beats me.

I rarely buy a scratch-off, but when I do I win at least another ticket. I don't plan to buy those tickets, it's a rather basic impulse at the cash register. Do I think it's God telling me to buy them? No. If I won a big wad, would I think He told me. No.

I'm quite aware of what intuition tells me--regardless of the topic, it's still from only my own thoughts and what I'm talking about are thoughts that I know aren't mine. My mind is not a mysterious puzzle and I've come to know it well.

Well when you look to the media for all your miracles you'll find none and when you look to professionals to confirm them, you destroy faith..... So until we start living a different societal life, we'll fail to see them.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Without this one being acted upon, the love that God is telling us to have for others is not possible.

there were many more miracles of God, which Jesus Christ performed that are not easy to explain.


He fed 5,000 people with 5 loaves of bread and two fish.

He turned water into wine.

He brought Lazarus from the dead after he had been dead for three days.

he healed the sick and the blind.

I even remember a story of him healing a roman soldiers servant from afar.

Matther 8:5

"8:5 When he entered Capernaum, a centurion approached him and appealed to him, 6 saying, “Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, suffering dreadfully.” 7 He said to him, “I will come and cure him.” 8 The centurion said in reply, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof; only say the word and my servant will be healed. 9 For I too am a person subject to authority, with soldiers subject to me. And I say to one,‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come here,’ and he comes; and to my slave, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” 10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Amen, I say to you, in no one in Israel have I found such faith. 11 I say to you, many will come from the east and the west, and will recline with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the banquet In the kingdom of heaven, 12 but the children of the kingdom will be driven out into the outer darkness, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.” 13 And Jesus said to the centurion, “You may go; as you have believed, let it be done for you.” And at that very hour (his) servant was healed."

The Lord no longer needs to reveal himself to us, we have his word.

the obvious answer is that these "miracles" are actually recycled, rehashed, retold legends that originally belonged to other religions, heroes, urban legends, etc.

there are no "new" miracles attributed to Jesus in the bible - you can find every single one of them told in much earlier stories attributed to a variety of gods.

it's really all just the "miracle" of plagarism.

Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by AngelWings9999
If you ask the Heavenly Father, He will show you that it is True!

If you are sincere in your Heart, and you seek Him with all thy Heart & Soul, He Will Show You all that it is True!

But as Christ stood before Unbelievers there were times He Opened Not His Mouth and Answered them not, for He knew their Hearts! So one must be of a contrite heart, when asking & seeking His Truth & Mysteries!


[edit on 3-5-2006 by AngelWings9999]

[edit on 3-5-2006 by AngelWings9999]

Ok....well...

There are 2 problems here. 1, you assume that the bible only applies to Christian interpretation (I assume this from your reference to Jesus-god). I didn't say CHRISTIAN miracles, I said BIBLE miracles. Besides, were I to believe the book, I would believe the Jewish take on it, since they made it up first.

2, that says absolutely NOTHING about why we don't see miracles! The people with Moses didn't ask bible god to show them an insane miracle. They just happened to be with Moses when they saw them.

Hello, I see what your saying, call it what you will, I look at it as BIBLE MIRACLES TOO, Jesus & God both did Miracles, But I do see miracles, Many in fact!
I know, it's hard to believe until one actually see's them for themself, or see's their loved one get healed! So just keep searching and asking to see & you will!
Take Care
Angel

It seems to me that the bible (and christians) contradict themselves all the time.

No one can see God (according to the Bible, or can they?).

Exodus 33:20
Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me and live.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time.

1 Timothy 6:16
Whom no man hath seen nor can see.

And a drumroll please.....

Genesis 26:24
And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not.

Exodus 33:11
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.

Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

These are just a smidgen of contradictions that can be found in the bible. I know of about 20-30 more and I'm sure there are myriads of others. Don't get me wrong I am not a christian/bible basher, whatever works for you, more power to ya.

Originally posted by redbrotherqing
It seems to me that the bible (and christians) contradict themselves all the time.

No one can see God (according to the Bible, or can they?).

Exodus 33:20
Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me and live.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time.

1 Timothy 6:16
Whom no man hath seen nor can see.

And a drumroll please.....

Genesis 26:24
And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not.

Exodus 33:11
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.

Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

These are just a smidgen of contradictions that can be found in the bible. I know of about 20-30 more and I'm sure there are myriads of others. Don't get me wrong I am not a christian/bible basher, whatever works for you, more power to ya.

As far as Deuteronomy, let us look at 33:9, only a few sentences before. "As Moses entered the tent, the column of cloud would come down and stand at its entrance while the LORD spoke with Moses" A column of cloud, not the likeness of a man. And then, only a few sentences after the quoted 33:11, "But my face you cannot see, for no man sees me and still lives". This implies not that Moses truly SAW God face to face, only that he TALKED with him as friends would talk. The latter is a quote that you made yourself. The point is that these passages cannot be extracted from the texts and taken into whatever context one would wish to argue for them. I'm personally all for exploiting Bible contradictions, as there are many, but this one is not very sound. But even without this particular piece, one could still argue that the reason certain men could see God, and others could not, is that others were not pure enough of heart, and even then it was something like a pillar of smoke and not an actual face.(see above) If you look at stories like that of Elijah, you might surmise something like this is plausable. He was so without sin, that God took him into heaven without even having to die first. My point is, there are many, many contradictions in the Bible, but if you read them in lieu of the rest of the passages, they make a bit more sense and you can see them for what they truly meant. Too many people do exactly what you have done and only look at the literal meaning of ten words mixed with a thousand. DOESNT WORK OUT OF CONTEXT. I am curious about the other contradictions you mentioned, however. Could you perhaps start a new thread and set them out on the table for discussion?

I apologize. It was not Deuteronomy, as I said. I meant Exodus 33:9.

Originally posted by redbrotherqing
It seems to me that the bible (and christians) contradict themselves all the time.

No one can see God (according to the Bible, or can they?).

Exodus 33:20
Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me and live.

Exodus 33:11
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.

Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

These are just a smidgen of contradictions that can be found in the bible. I know of about 20-30 more and I'm sure there are myriads of others.

No man or woman has seen God in His complete fulness. There are several times in the OT when a preincarnate Jesus appeared to men. And Jesus appeared t many in the NT but no one has yet seen God completelt. But believers will see Him in His entirety some day and live in His presence for forever.

As far as contradictions, there are none. There is an answer to the "contradiction" that can explain it and bring greater truth out of it.

Originally posted by Toadmund

A sea split in half long enough for a bunch of people to walk across the ocean floor.

Earthquake pushed up the seabed, actually, according to theory, it's the 'Reed sea' not the 'Red sea', big size difference.

The sun suddenly stop its "path" through the sky (I mean for like a few hours, of course ).

The Earth tilting on it's axis can cause this effect, or temporary stop in rotation, perhaps due to gravitational pull by an object zipping by Earth.

The Nile River turn into blood.
All the water in a country turn into blood.

Iron oxide getting stirred up from release of trapped gases, perhaps released by earthquakes.

The firstborn of an entire country die in one night (I wouldn't want to see people die per se, just an incredible event actually occur).

The firstborn slept on the ground floor as was custom, older siblings slept upstairs on the roof, carbon dioxide released from lakebed by earthquake, CO2 is a heavy gas, so would kill the first born.

Someone walk across a lake/river/pond/etc.

Mirage, ice, shallow spot?

A burning bush talk.

Some biblical prankster?

A snake talk.

same guy?

I saw the show that made all these claims... the one explanation I find Dumb as Bush is "Reed sea" instead of "Red Sea". "Reed" and "Red" might sound similar in English, but they sure as hell don't in Yiddish, Aramaic, Egyptian, Greek, or Latin. That was by far the stupidist explanation on the show.

-S

I'm beginning to wonder whether God performs miracles anymore... what with the explosion of child porn, sex-slavery in Eastern Europe, depleted uranium being dropped all over Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, and now Iraq, Michael Jackson in yet another lawsuit, this time in a custody battle...

Or maybe God's nature isn't all soft and cuddly like the fundies would have us believe...

-S

Originally posted by Forgiven
The Lord no longer needs to reveal himself to us, we have his word.

Well, I guess his word, edited and re-edited, taken out of context, made more sellable, misunderstood, added to, and given poetic license is good enough then.

Thanks man, I'm religious now, AMEN, HALALOOYAAA!!!

See, in the new testament there are 4 gospels, recently the gospel of Judas was discovered, that alone changes cemented beliefs, and to think there are 25,
yes 25 gospels that were left out, mainly because they did not support the way the editors wanted to believe the story.
What is in these gospels that they were considered heresy?

4 entries found for heresy.
her·e·sy Audio pronunciation of "heresy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hr-s)
n. pl. her·e·sies

1.
1. An opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs, especially dissension from or denial of Roman Catholic dogma by a professed believer or baptized church member.
2. Adherence to such dissenting opinion or doctrine.
2.
1. A controversial or unorthodox opinion or doctrine, as in politics, philosophy, or science.
2. Adherence to such controversial or unorthodox opinion.

from:

dictionary.reference.com...