Bosnian Pyramid Update

Originally posted by Crvenkapica


If this was all natural , how can nature make

1. 3 hills with sides , pointing to north-south east-west , like other pyramids in the world
2. 3 pyramids make a traingle with 60 degrees
3. tunnels
4. stone blocks under the soil

if this is made of mother nature then we would see more things like this in the world

1. The map dopes not support the conjecture that any of the hills have sides aligned to the cardinal pouints - leastways no more so than any other individual hill has.

2. Again, if you look at the map you'll see that only one point of the triangle is on the summit of a hill - another is clearly not on the summit whilst the summit of the third hill is completely obscured.

3. Tunnels occur all over the world. There have been mines in this area at least back to Roman times.

4. In some cases, the stone blocks may to be foundations of old buildings, In other cases they are clearly bedrock. In no picture do they look anything like the sides of any known pyramid.

I think everyone should have a look at this site:

hnn.us...

In the blog he has actually followed up and researched some of the claims that Osmanagić makes. Here is stuff on the apparent 60 degree claim:

If you slept through basic geometry at school a minute is one-sixieth of a degree. It would be a difficult claim to check, the photos look quite convincing. Except if you download the placemarks linked above (and possibly have Google Earth Plus) you can check this next claim too. I measured the distance between the Pyramids of the Moon and the Dragon and got a distance of 2,250 metres.
....

That's open to questions about accuracy, the sites haven't been excavated yet (which doesn't bother the Bosnian Geodetic Institute but nevermind) but they do give a ballpark figure. If the tops of the pyramids do describe an equilateral triangle then the distance between the Pyramids of the Moon and the Sun should be around the same.

The distance is 2,060 metres. That's a 10% difference which makes you wonder quite how you can declare the angles are equal to within an accuracy of a minute....

Also lots of stuff about the multiple claims that have been made about the site:

Well perhaps the dating is provisional what about the most basic data? How tall is the pyramid? It's 100 metres high. It's 70 metres high with a base 220 by 220 metres. It's 220 metres high (a claim which was on an official site now only available via Google Cache). Each side is 365 metres long, (which using geometry yields a height of 365/2 metres) so it's 187.5 metres high.

When you put all those figures together the claims look laughable,

These are all figures that Osmanagić has presented at some point.

However the most damaging claims are about the so-called experts that Osmanagić claims support him. Ali Abd Barakat is mentioned a quite a bit in support, however we really have no idea who this guy is or if he works for Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority, as he claims.

It also looks Osmanagić is just lying about the "international team" he is putting together. Here is what the Irish Archaeologist Grace Fegan had to say:

When I logged on to the website I found that I was listed as Senior Archaeologist, Kilkenny (I am the senior archaeologist for the firm in which I work, but not for the entire county of Kilkenny!). Most worrying of all was a link through which people could supposedly contact me. When I clicked on it an email address came up of which I had no previous knowledge and to which I had no access.
Needless to say, I found this pretty unsettling. Mr Osmanagich used my name in connection with his project when he had no right to do so.....

And another expert who is listed as being on the Bosian team is Royce Richards, who has this to say:

Its all a big load of b******s. The “Bosnian Pyramid” is just a shonky attempt by a shonky person to make a name for themselves, its not something I want to be involved with. Its quite annoying as I now get random emails from all kinds of kooks expecting me to be an authority on Bosnian pyramids!! The damage this will do to my professional reputation is yet to be seen..........!
I never gave Mr Osmanagich permission to give my name to any media organisation and I never gave any media organisation permission to put my name in print

I have to agree with the blogger in that judging from the claims he has made, especially about people who are apparently on his team yet he has never spoke to them, that Osmanagić is either:

a) a con man
b) fantasist
c) all of the above

I would be interested in hearing a defence of the above claims.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
I think everyone should have a look at this site:

hnn.us...

In the blog he has actually followed up and researched some of the claims that Osmanagić makes. Here is stuff on the apparent 60 degree claim:

If you slept through basic geometry at school a minute is one-sixieth of a degree. It would be a difficult claim to check, the photos look quite convincing. Except if you download the placemarks linked above (and possibly have Google Earth Plus) you can check this next claim too. I measured the distance between the Pyramids of the Moon and the Dragon and got a distance of 2,250 metres.
....

That's open to questions about accuracy, the sites haven't been excavated yet (which doesn't bother the Bosnian Geodetic Institute but nevermind) but they do give a ballpark figure.

The distance is 2,060 metres. That's a 10% difference which makes you wonder quite how you can declare the angles are equal to within an accuracy of a minute....

Also lots of stuff about the multiple claims that have been made about the site:

Well perhaps the dating is provisional what about the most basic data? How tall is the pyramid? It's 100 metres high. It's 70 metres high with a base 220 by 220 metres. It's 220 metres high (a claim which was on an official site now only available via Google Cache). Each side is 365 metres long, (which using geometry yields a height of 365/2 metres) so it's 187.5 metres high.

When you put all those figures together the claims look laughable,

These are all figures that Osmanagić has presented at some point.

However the most damaging claims are about the so-called experts that Osmanagić claims support him. Ali Abd Barakat is mentioned a quite a bit in support, however we really have no idea who this guy is or if he works for Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority, as he claims.

It also looks Osmanagić is just lying about the "international team" he is putting together. Here is what the Irish Archaeologist Grace Fegan had to say:

When I logged on to the website I found that I was listed as Senior Archaeologist, Kilkenny (I am the senior archaeologist for the firm in which I work, but not for the entire county of Kilkenny!). Most worrying of all was a link through which people could supposedly contact me. When I clicked on it an email address came up of which I had no previous knowledge and to which I had no access.
Needless to say, I found this pretty unsettling. Mr Osmanagich used my name in connection with his project when he had no right to do so.....

And another expert who is listed as being on the Bosian team is Royce Richards, who has this to say:

Its all a big load of b******s. The “Bosnian Pyramid” is just a shonky attempt by a shonky person to make a name for themselves, its not something I want to be involved with. Its quite annoying as I now get random emails from all kinds of kooks expecting me to be an authority on Bosnian pyramids!! The damage this will do to my professional reputation is yet to be seen..........!
I never gave Mr Osmanagich permission to give my name to any media organisation and I never gave any media organisation permission to put my name in print

I have to agree with the blogger in that judging from the claims he has made, especially about people who are apparently on his team yet he has never spoke to them, that Osmanagić is either:

a) a con man
b) fantasist
c) all of the above

I would be interested in hearing a defence of the above claims.

I think we get the picture, dude.

Let me cue up the "Godzilla" sound effects to accompany your posts here. Or perhaps the sounds of a wrecking ball. Maybe you'd prefer the sounds of a sports stadium cheering you on as you crush down any vestiges of what might be the possibility of a pyramid.

"BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!" Look out! It's FatherLukeDuke! AGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Originally posted by newtron25

Originally posted byFatherLukeDuke
I have to agree with the blogger in that judging from the claims he has made, especially about people who are apparently on his team yet he has never spoke to them, that Osmanagić is either:

a) a con man
b) fantasist
c) all of the above

I would be interested in hearing a defence of the above claims.

I think we get the picture, dude.

Let me cue up the "Godzilla" sound effects to accompany your posts here. Or perhaps the sounds of a wrecking ball. Maybe you'd prefer the sounds of a sports stadium cheering you on as you crush down any vestiges of what might be the possibility of a pyramid.

"BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!" Look out! It's FatherLukeDuke! AGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Originally posted by SpinDropSmileWhat happened to all the people that were 100% sure this wasn't a pyramid?? Should we start an apology section? It goes to show how many things don't get a second look when people refuse to believe the unexplained. Sorry what were some of the points people had to say to prove these were not pyramids? I have been following this for a long time and I had hoped that be delcared a pyramid. I wonder what else has been shot down that may deserve a second look? maybe we don't know everything already!

What happened to all the people that were 100% sure that this was a pyramid? Should we start a "Dee Dee Dee" section ala Carlos Mencia? (For those not in the know, this would be a section for the drooling mouthbreathers I mentioned in an earlier post that snap up pseudohistory at every opportunity, regardless of being told how they are being LIED to.)

This just goes to show how many people out there are sitting ducks for con men such as this Texas "Bosnian," all of them willing suckers that have deluded themselves into thinking that they don't need to do any actual hard work, because men like Osmanagic will do it for them. They consider people that commit to studying in an attempt to learn the actual known facts of prehistory to be idiots if students, and somehow they become evil genius conspirators keeping the "truth" from humanity, once a degree is obtained.

I'm sorry, what was ONE, SINGLE POINT that the believers had to say that offers even the tiniest, slightest iota of evidence that this hill is a 12,000 year old pyramid? I've been following this for a long time, hoping to see any reason at all to believe it, regardless of the shady, nonacademic and downright dishonest reputation of the "pyramids" claimant, the pseudohistorian Osmanagic.

I wonder if there is still even one single claim made by Osmanagic that has not been shot down.

Maybe we already know everything we need to know about a man that publishes lies about the Mayans in order to line his pockets with the gold of ignorant people that should know better than to support such a fraud.


FatherLuke,

Thank you for the enlightening post. I hope some people here actually read it.

Harte

walls of the bosnian pyramid

Now that's the first decent photo posted. Now, at least, I can see why someone wandered along and thought "I wonder if there's a pyramid under there?" or even just, "Wow, doesn't that look pyramid-shaped?"

Originally posted by newtron25
"BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!" Look out! It's FatherLukeDuke! AGHHHHHHHHHHH!

What in teh world was that about? FLD pointed us all to a site that refutes many of the claims being made. You don't like that, and resort to making fun of the person?

Do you actually want to beleive that there is a a pyramid there, no matter what the evidence is? I'd love to know that there is a pyramid there from the evidence. Looks like its not. Why get so upset? Perhaps you shouldn't invest yourself so much emotionally in bizzare claims made on the internet.

howlrunnerIV
I can see why someone wandered along and thought "I wonder if there's a pyramid under there?" or even just, "Wow, doesn't that look pyramid-shaped?"

That could almost be the words in a cartoon thought bubble over the head of the guy in teh foreground!



The page FLD pointed out seems to show, rather convincingly, that the 'lead investigator' at the site is something of a fraud. However, if they presented enough to get UNESCO to bother, maybe there is more than meets the eye?

Is it possible that there is no UNESCO involvement however, since this same guy made up email addresses and said peopel that weren't part of the team were part of the team (I beleive Doug Weller pointed this out previously also).

Crvenkapica, do you know of any besides Osmaic that has talked to the UNESCO people? Has a concrete date for their arrival been set?

It is not only Osmanagic who posted about UNESCO. Here is Router's news:

SARAJEVO (Reuters) - Bosnia's mystery pyramid will now be probed and inspected by a team of experts from the U.N. Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.

"We shall send a UNESCO expert team to Visoko to determine exactly what it is all about," UNESCO Secretary General Koichiro Matsuura said in an interview published on Monday in Dnevni Avaz newspaper.

Amateur archaeologist Semir Osmanagic has caused a stir with his find, although local and European archaeologists denounce it as nonsense.

Geologist Aly Abd Barakat, an Egyptian researcher sent by Cairo to assist Osmanagic's team last month, has said that the Visocica hill did appear to be a primitive man-made pyramid of uncertain age.

Barakat said huge stone blocks found on the three sides of the hill used the same type of artificial cement used in ancient Egyptian pyramids.

Osmanagic's team is also investigating the Pljesevica hill -- which he calls the Moon Pyramid -- as well as underground tunnels he believes connect three pyramids.

The researchers have also found a sandstone monolith in the underground tunnel with enigmatic symbols engraved on it, which will be sent to Egypt for analysis.

Osmanagic, who studied pyramids in central America for the past 15 years, said that satellite and radar analyses have revealed the perfect geometry of Visocica and precise alignment of its sides with four cardinal points.

Click here for the link where this news is from.

I haven't read the link posted above. Someone analyzed the Visocica hill and has concluded that there is nothing bellow?

Edit
I just read the blog entry on the link, and I have to say that it did not convince me, same as Osmanagic claim that is Pyramid did not convince me that really it is.
Big part of Alun's conclusion is based on argumentum ad hominem. I would wait a bit more to draw conclusion, it is to early to do so now.

[edit on 6/9/06 by vietifulJoe]

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by newtron25
"BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!" Look out! It's FatherLukeDuke! AGHHHHHHHHHHH!

What in teh world was that about? FLD pointed us all to a site that refutes many of the claims being made. You don't like that, and resort to making fun of the person?

My retort was rhetorical. It is obvious both sides of the argument are throwing rotten fruit on occasion. I am guilty as charged.

I actually wanted to help lighten things up, but it came out wrong. Again, my apologies.

Again....unless and until there is evidence in either direction, it might be wise to temper remarks and post links in as objective a fashion as possible.

We all know where everyone stands on this...the voices have been loud and clear. Let's just allow the purported stone slabs fall where they may and take it from there.

Newtron

Post Script - My specific apologies to Fr. Luke Duke. He is dedicated to determining the truth from his own perspective and for that should be commended.

Well, I've stayed out, and awaited some confirmation, as to what is here, and it seems the verdics are in.

english.pravda.ru...
British archaeologist: no pyramid in Bosnia

British archaeologist proved that a hill in central Bosnia is a man-made structure, having no attitude to pyramid. Professor Anthony Harding, who is president of the European Association of Archaeologists, visited Visocica hill and said the formation was natural.

So, verdic # 1. Natural Formation!

Always check for a second source though

science.monstersandcritics.com...
European archaeologists do not believe in pyramids in Bosnia

Sarajevo - Representatives of the European Association of Archaeologists said Friday in Sarajevo they do not believe in the existence of pyramids near the central Bosnian town of Visoko, some 30 kilometres north from Sarajevo.

'We saw the area and what we saw was entirely natural geological structure,' president of the association professor Anthony Harding told reporters in Sarajevo.

So, that's it.

Done. NATURAL GEOLOGICAL STRUCTURE

I am pleased this is finally over and completed.

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 9-6-2006 by Shane]

While there are now two sources that say that that structure isn't what it appears to be, it should be noted that pravda is notorious for being wrong, not to mention both of those sites aren't authoritative. I'm reserving final judgement on this until an official source comes out with a statement.

Until then, I wait.

TheBorg

P.S.

I don't want this to appear as though I'm discounting evidence just because I don't wanna believe that it's a pyramid, because that's not at all true. I'm merely looking for someone that has a good record with reporting to tell us anything. I seek the truth just like everyone else here should.

I would love to see this really is a pyramid.
but look at the last photo Crvenakapica posted:

Originally posted by Crvenkapica
walls of the bosnian pyramid

take a look at the trees growing all over. Do you know how much root space a tree needs to grow that big? But there is only about 50cm of soil on top of the "pyramid wall". A tree that big would grow roots 2 meters deep through the walls, otherwise it can't support itself. And look at the number of trees around the site. The whole hill is covered with big trees.
If there is a pyramid, I'm sure that it is BADLY damaged by the roots.

There's no way a whole forest would grow in such shallow soil. Plant a tree where the roots are blocked by concrete and it won't grow higher than a meter and a half.

Originally posted by Urizen
take a look at the trees growing all over. Do you know how much root space a tree needs to grow that big? But there is only about 50cm of soil on top of the "pyramid wall". A tree that big would grow roots 2 meters deep through the walls, otherwise it can't support itself. And look at the number of trees around the site. The whole hill is covered with big trees.
If there is a pyramid, I'm sure that it is BADLY damaged by the roots.

There's no way a whole forest would grow in such shallow soil. Plant a tree where the roots are blocked by concrete and it won't grow higher than a meter and a half.

If I may, I would respectfully disagree to what you are noting.

I live in an area of Canada, that is called the Muskokas, and we have rock. Everything is Rock. It is Cottage Country north of Toronto.

I can attest that, what you have noted, although seeming like something that appears to make perfect sense, maybe not quite accurate.

Last year, we have several trees removed, one of which was 120' clear straight trunk, before they reached the Top. It had a Base of about 6' around, and it was growing in no more that a 1 foot of Top Soil, which actually accumlated and enriched itself from decomposing leaves and such, that collected in the SPREADING root system.

The Largest Tree, noted above was a White Pine, but we also had some very large, Maples, a Couple of Oaks, and some spruce removed. Alive, they stuck to the rock, and spread throughout as little as 2" (INCHES) of soil. There was also evidence, that the roots systems interlocked or wove themselves together, since removing the Stumps, was quite easy. It was the Roots, that came out, like a Fibre Basket or a 1 to 5 inch thick rug, right off the Rock. Along with this, the roots traveled 40 feet away from the Stump, insome cases. That becomes an 80' support, with a tree growing in the Middle of it.

Maybe some of the Bosians here, can look into this, and confirm if what I have noted, is also evident.

You have noted the impossiblity of this occuring, based on your description, but I have found here, where I live, this is not required. Trees will seed, like any plant, and seek moisture and nutients through an ever spreading root system, which we would expect to grow down, into the earth. But they will also spread out, seeking the same, when there is no depths to reach.

I've also heard, like you have suggested, if a tree is 10' Tall, it's roots would run down about 3 feet into the earth. A 60 foot tree would have roots running some 20' into the earth.

But this may just be an assumption, that applies only if there is Ground there to allow for this growth.

I trust you can understand what I am noting, and again, I respectfully suggest, this may not be the case, 100% of the time. Nature is adaptive, and trees can grow in surprising spaces.

Ciao

Shane

Here's a pic I took 2 weeks ago from an area just west of the Muskokas, Shane.

The trees there are growing out of little more than a dusting of soil covering solid bedrock.



This was taken near Mactier in the 30,000 Islands area on the shore of Georgian Bay.

It's commonplace in this area to see trees supported by roots threaded into the cracks of solid rock.
.

Hi,

I have a question:

If this is a pyramid then how did all the millions of tons of dirt end up on it and around it?

Cheers

JS

[edit on 10-6-2006 by jumpspace]

Originally posted by jumpspace
Hi, I have a question:

If this is a pyramid then how did all the millions of tons of dirt end up on it and around it? Cheers JS
[edit on 10-6-2006 by jumpspace]

Well, after 10000 Years of Time, if this is a Pyramid, and if it is 10000 Years old, decay of vegiation would produce more and more each year. Likely 1/16 of an Inch or so each year.

Now I have no clue, as to how high up, this Structure is above Sea Level, but some matter could have even been deposited during one or two floods 'Possibly'

Just some options to consider.

And thanks for the Photo Masqua, of what I was noting about the Trees.

Ciao

Shane.

[edit on 10-6-2006 by Shane]

new evidence from bosnisna moon pyramid

moon pyramid

Anthony Harding, head of the European Association of Archaeologists has looked at the site and thinks its just a natural formation

SARAJEVO (AFP) - Stone blocks believed by Bosnian researchers to be part of Europe's first pyramid are nothing but a natural formation, European experts said after examining the hillside site near Sarajevo.

Thursday to the hills near Visoko, a town some 30 kilometres (19 miles) north of Sarajevo, where excavation work has been taking place since April.

"Further work of the same kind would simply produce the same results. I don't think it would change any view about what the nature of the hill is," he told reporters.

rest of story here

Anthony Harding, head of the European Association of Archaeologists has looked at the site and thinks its just a natural formation

no he did not, he visited maybe one sond on the sun pyramid, and those who work there said that they havent seen him, he did not visited moon pyramid, or tunels

he did not analize all evidence


External Source

SARAJEVO (AFP) - Stone blocks believed by Bosnian researchers to be part of Europe's first pyramid are nothing but a natural formation, European experts said after examining the hillside site near Sarajevo.

Thursday to the hills near Visoko, a town some 30 kilometres (19 miles) north of Sarajevo, where excavation work has been taking place since April.

"Further work of the same kind would simply produce the same results. I don't think it would change any view about what the nature of the hill is," he told reporters.

rest of story here



/ but you did not post this from that article


However earlier on Friday, an Egyptian geologist working with the Bosnian researchers said that the "structure" was a pyramid similar to those in his homeland.

"I believe it is a pyramid," Aly Abd Alla Barakat, of the Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority, told AFP.

Listing the evidence for his claim, Barakat said the sides of the hill were "precisely oriented" towards the four points of the compass and that stone slabs discovered at the site had been "polished by man".

"The white stuff I found between the blocks could be a glue. It is very similar to that we have found in the Giza pyramids," he said.

He called for a massive international research project on the site.

Barakat said he had sent a report on the site to one of the world's leading Egyptologists, Zahi Hawass, who had recommended him to the foundation leading the excavation work.



barakat worked on bosnian pyramid almost a month, and he believe tha there is a pyramids

british archelogist harding was 15 minutes like a turist on the bosnian pyramid somewhere and he made such conclusions , stupidity

here is more photos from moon pyramid


www.piramidasunca.ba...

www.piramidasunca.ba...