---I apologize to the other members for my behaviour.....

... environmentalists don't study what happens in the solar system, astrophysicists and other scientists do. It is not just one or two planets in the solar system who are going through a global warming similar, and worse in "most" cases, than Earth.

Every single planet is being affected by global warming, and these changes started more or less at the same time Earth did. In some planets it started earlier than it did on Earth.

There is no point in showing facts and evidence to such people..

Grover, you are simply not worth the effort, anyone else who is interested in the truth will see for themselves what is going on.

Pluto is the farthest planet, that we know of, in the solar system, and it is orbiting away from the sun, yet it is growing hotter, instead of cooler. As the other links on what is happening in the other planets in the solar system shows, this is not happening just on Earth, but on the entire solar system.


[edit on 9-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Once again you avoided answering my post and then claim I am not worth the effort because I do not kowtow to your superior knowledge.

You string a series of tidbits together and call them proof of something that they are not.
You avoid addressing the real question, indeed do everything you can to obscure it.

I could say the same thing of you bud, but I won't.

Originally posted by grover
Once again you avoided answering my post and then claim I am not worth the effort because I do not kowtow to your superior knowledge.

Superior knowledge?...all i did was some research and posted some links...., your attemps at dismissing this information tells it all...

Oh and btw, according to you I am a government agent, and now I work for the oil interests too?... Then you must be working for the KGB, and you obviously agree with this ecologist even if you claim you don't....

Originally posted by grover
You string a series of tidbits together and call them proof of something that they are not.

Really?.... so all those planets are not currently going through a global warming?.... and the sun is not acting strangely now more than in the last 1,000 years?....

Originally posted by grover
You avoid addressing the real question, indeed do everything you can to obscure it.

Who is avoiding the real questions is you...environmentalists can't anwser as to what is happening in the solar system, which is where the Earth is in case you forgot.

Originally posted by grover
I could say the same thing of you bud, but I won't.

Oh no...you just claim i must be a government agent and working for oil interests everytime your claims are proven wrong....

Humm, I must be extremely rich if i "work for the government and for the interests of the oil industry"....so what the hell am I doing still working if I am rich?...

Oh wait...it is all in the head of someone who when proven wrong can't anwser to the real questions and then he has to make something up to dismiss all the facts against his claims....

[edit on 9-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Maybe Dr. Eric R. Pianka would like to minimize the human population by starting with himself. I'd like to see what his explanation would be on why he shouldn't have to die with the 90%.

No muaddib the real question is whether human activity has increased global warming on THIS planet, and if so what should be done about it.

Again who should I believe.....Blowhard in Montana or environmental scientists?

You still lose Muaddib.

And no I do not support what this fellow says.....and you will not find a posting from me saying that I do cause its not there......unless you put words in my mouth or twist them around, which you tend to do.

Actually I was being scarcastic accusing you of being a government agent, I have seen you deny it when others have accused you of it before.

As for working for an oil company, I thought I read someone on here comment once that you were an engineer for one.

If I am wrong I do apologize.

BUT your science is still off.

Originally posted by grover
BUT your science is still off.

I agree...

Nowhere has a single causative effect been shown to explain these planetary observations. Given the tremendous difference in atmospheric make-up, geology and other physical characteristics of these bodies, I think it a moronic oversimplification to assert that what is happening HERE is happening elsewhere for the same reason. Could that be the case? Sure... But nothing Maudibb cites represents "proof" of such a position.

The mere fact that Maudibb labels consideration of a man-made causative effect here on earth as a "leftist" agenda speaks volumes of his own agenda.

Fortunately, I think very few are so easily taken in by such dribble...

REAL science looks at all of the possibilities...

[edit on 9-8-2006 by loam]

Originally posted by loam

I agree...

Well, two people that agree on something doesn't make both of you right does it?..

I don't see you posting any evidence to debunk that the whole solar system is undergoing global warming... If you have facts please post them otherwise you are just stating your own opinion and nothing more.

Originally posted by loam
Nowhere has a single causative effect been shown to explain these planetary observations.

I showed a scientific paper which was written in 1978 in which scientists state there is an interstellar cloud which would be approaching the solar sytem (back in 78) in the near future, and this will cause changes on the solar system for the next 10,000 years, and in that same article they say this will cause changes in the climate. Kind of ironic that this is exactly what is happening.

Originally posted by loam
Given the tremendous difference in atmospheric make-up, geology and other physical characteristics of these bodies, I think it a moronic oversimplification to assert that what is happening HERE is happening elsewhere for the same reason. Could that be the case? Sure... But nothing Maudibb cites represents "proof" of such a position.

Nothing presents proof of such a position?... Perhaps the fact that astrophysicists and other scientists studying what is happening in the solar system are saying that "the other planets in our solar system with an atmosphere are undergoing global warming" has something to do with it....

Originally posted by loam
The mere fact that Maudibb labels consideration of a man-made causative effect here on earth as a "leftist" agenda speaks volumes of his own agenda.

Could you tell us what "agenda is that"?....

Yes, environmentalists and many people such as grover, are trying to blame global warming only being caused by "human activity". I never said human activity does not cause any damage to the environment, but human activity is not "the cause of global warming"...when the whole solar system is undergoing global warming.

Originally posted by loam
Fortunately, I think very few are so easily taken in by such dribble...

Dribble?.... Again, i posted facts, and evidence....you only stated your own opinion, and tried to dismiss those facts...so you are the one dribbling. Kind of moronic huh?...

Originally posted by loam
REAL science looks at all of the possibilities...

[edit on 9-8-2006 by loam]

Really?... well could you post evidence, from your real science, that proves the other planets in our solar system are not undergoing global warming?...

[edit on 9-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Really?... well could you post evidence, from your real science, that proves the other planets in our solar system are not undergoing global warming?...

Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem.

I stated:

Originally posted by loam
I think it a moronic oversimplification to assert that what is happening HERE is happening elsewhere for the same reason.

*yawn*

Originally posted by loam


Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem.

My reading comprehension is just fine thank you.....

Originally posted by loam
I stated:

Originally posted by loam
I think it a moronic oversimplification to assert that what is happening HERE is happening elsewhere for the same reason.

*yawn*

Yawn all you want, you talk about "real science", yet you are not providing any evidence to back your claim, nor grover's....

What is simplistic and moronic is for a couple of people just to state their "opinion" and then claim "oh real science is backing me up"...and dismiss the evidence against their argument because they say so...

If you want to argue that global warming is not happening in the solar system, you need to provide evidence. if global warming is happening to every planet which has an atmosphere in the solar system, and it is also happening on Earth, using the principle of Occam's Razor, we can stipulate that the most logical explanation is that whatever is causing global warming on the solar system, it is causing global warming on Earth.

I never said that human activity has never caused damage to the environment, nor does it make it better, but even if all factories which are producing greenhouse gases were shut down, if all the vehicles on Earth stopped working, if we never again use ACs to cool ourselves down on summers, etc, etc, global warming will not be stopped because humanity does not control the Solar System.

[edit on 9-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
My reading comprehension is just fine thank you.....

Apparently, it's not... or you wouldn't have asserted for a SECOND time that:

Originally posted by Muaddib
If you want to argue that global warming is not happening in the solar system, you need to provide evidence.

Why should I bother with the remaining leap in your logic concerning causation, if you can't even follow a simple discussion?

Hang it up loam he splits hairs worse than cheap shampoo. I still say 90% of the environmental scientists opinion outweighs that of a loon in Montana anytime.

Thats it all we have to do is ship Muaddib a case of head and shoulders and the problem is solved.

T0by

Point well taken.

[edit on 9-8-2006 by loam]

I still say we send Muaddib a case of head and shoulders....it will get rid of his dandruff, help stop global warming and hopefully improve his disposition.

Maybe he could work a way find better space travel so man kind can live on Mars and maybe bring water to it. Let him Kill his family first we will see if his neighbours want to join in.

Originally posted by loam

Apparently, it's not... or you wouldn't have asserted for a SECOND time that:

Again, you are not presenting any evidence, which proves my point.

Originally posted by loam



Why should I bother with the remaining leap in your logic concerning causation, if you can't even follow a simple discussion?

Your anwser should be because you can't debunk the evidence i provided, unless you do, and if you do then show it....


[edit on 9-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by grover
Hang it up loam he splits hairs worse than cheap shampoo. I still say 90% of the environmental scientists opinion outweighs that of a loon in Montana anytime.

You keep just resorting to insults grover...wonder why.... Can't back your claims and prove that global warming is not happening in the rest of the solar system?...

The problem is simple, you two claim that human activity is the main reason for global warming and present the conclusion reached by environmentalists who can't see past their noses and look for any reason to blame mankind to what is happening on Earth, and want to dismiss what is happening to the entire Solar System.

I presented evidence which refutes that argument, and your claims, and for now that evidence points to the fact that global warming is being caused probably by this same interstellar cloud which is causing global warming on the solar system, not just Earth.....

So why can't you two combine your intelligence and debunk the evidence which shows that global warming is not happening in the solar system if it is true that "science backs your argument"?....

Posting more links from environmentalists, who don't want to see past their noses and they dismiss, or don't even mention the fact that global warming is happening in all planets with atmosphere on the Solar System, does not prove that you are right....it proves that you are blind to the facts for whatever motives you might have.

You two are like two ants who think their whole world is only what they see in front of them, and they believe their whole world is affected only by what happens in their colony, yet those two ants are unaware, or in your case you just want to dismiss entirely any facts which contradicts your opinion on global warming.

Anyways, soon enough a tractor rolls over the anthill destroying the colony, and the ants still think to their death that the destruction was caused by their fellow ants.

BTW, what I just explained is called an analogy.

[edit on 10-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Muaddib you are just too easy...getting your goat is like taking candy from a baby.

You can rant and rave about your "facts" all you like but you still haven't proven anything either... except that you have an active imagination.