If WWIII breaks out, who can the U.S. trust?

In any serious situation, US, US, Australia, and Canada will mutually defend one another, IMHO.

The really interesting thing: Where exactly would WWIII happen, if it happened?

I see 3 places.
1. The Pacific and Central Asia, courtesy of China adopting an expansionist policy, probably in cooperation with Russia (very unChinese on both counts, but it may become necessary). America would want to resist if feasible, but nobody would come with for a direct war on Russia or China unless the Australians feared that China would go for Indonesia and keep looking South as a means of Isolating the Pacific Ocean- in that case the UK comes in, and if things really get heavy, Canadians may be liberal, but they've got the fiber to step up for their friends if its real.

2. Africa. Africa is unstable. What happens, who does it, etc. is anyone's guess, but sooner or later something has to give there. India will probably take an interest there sooner or later, as may the Arabs if they ever get their act together. China would probably give silent consent for that. America and Europe would probably oppose any tampering with Africa.

3. Europe, 20+ years from now. This would be hysterical in my opinion. I'd like to see France and Germany go at it again, just for old time sake. Actually, it's more likely that if there was a war in Europe it would start as a limited action to reign in a government that wasn't living up to it's responsibilities under the EU in terms of human rights or economic stability, and it could either be swiftly resolved or could turn into Europe's civil war, depending. I'm guessing it would be France and Germany versus yet-to-be-admitted members in the East- former soviet sattelites most likely.

In this one, America is neither invited not interested, and infact unless Britain was with France and Germany we'd try to assert that the EU's domestic use of force was subject to UNSC approval, and that could start a serious diplomatic problem that would possibly come to a head in a trans-atlantic war IF the USA ever backed the UK against any action of the EU.


In all seriousness though- World Wars are probably done for, or close to it. The next world war is going to be a civil war if/when the first one world government inevitably fails, and it will probably be a one-sided thrashing of the 3rd world by the 1st.

Originally posted by Flyer
Pretty soon, you will only be able to record what the TV and film companies want you to. You will have DRM infested in everything you buy. Why? Because the entertainment companies pay off politicians to pass laws to help their greed.

Thats just one example of corporate greed at the expense of the public.

This statement I do somewhat agree with. I have some contempt for the entertainment indunstry and for good reason. They are very greedy people. But a degree of it I understand. If you invented something and it was your intellectual property, you patented it and everything, would you be mad if someone was pirating it? I would. It takes away a lot of your hard earned money that you spent your time and energy creating. I'm not familiar with DRM itself but I am familiar with its principle, and I cant say I completely disagree with it, but legally it does make sense. As I would want to protect something I created with my own skill and sweat.

Originally posted by ludaChris
This statement I do somewhat agree with. I have some contempt for the entertainment indunstry and for good reason. They are very greedy people. But a degree of it I understand. If you invented something and it was your intellectual property, you patented it and everything, would you be mad if someone was pirating it? I would. It takes away a lot of your hard earned money that you spent your time and energy creating. I'm not familiar with DRM itself but I am familiar with its principle, and I cant say I completely disagree with it, but legally it does make sense. As I would want to protect something I created with my own skill and sweat.

If you create something worth buying, people will buy it. One of the top selling games has no protection at all but people buy it because its worth it. Thats not true with films and especially music these days.

Its astounding the soon the US corporations will force you to buy electrical equipement that will prevent you from recording certain things.

Also, the music price labels have been convicted or price fixing and are now being sued again, that tells you what kind of people they are.

There are no lobbyists in the UK as its illegal and a conflict of interest to have politicians being paid to pass laws for big corporations and to screw the general public.

Well, it's not 100% legal over here either. The lobbyists aren't supposed to be buying people off. They're supposed to be promising that their organization will be on your side when the PR wars heat up, and convincing you that their side is right, etc etc.

Instead of course, they arrange all sorts of crooked stuff. I recall one story about a politician going on a "fact finding mission" with a lobbyist, gambling at a casion owned by an associate of the lobbyist, and winning nearly 100 grand on a single long-shot bet.

There's always a way to hide the money. Buy a few thousand copies of his book, pull strings to get him high-paid speaking engagements, etc etc.

As far as the entertainment industry- that's a double edged sword. Yes it's price-fixing. On the other hand, it's a luxury product and this is one of the wealthiest nations on earth. Conspicuous consumption has been part of American culture for a hundred years, but nobody has a gun to our head. Radio is basically a free luxury, not counting electricity, CDs can be bought used for 5 bucks, and I'd say that in a luxury industry, when it gets right down to it, you can expect a big markup and when you can't afford it you need to just cut back to a lower level of luxury.

What if we were talking about golden umbrella stands? OK, so the golden umbrella stand costs 3 times as much as its weight in gold, but you don't need the dang thing. If you've got money to spend on an umbrella stand at all, you only buy what you can afford and you don't complain about it because you're the pretentious snob who feels like he's got to have a useless status symbol. Anyone who steals a golden umbrella stand is 1. An idiot. 2. An arrogant SOB.

Music is a miniature golden umbrella stand.

Ok... to the bu#es: No point arguing when you cant change me and cannot convince me about that load of bull about jobs and money making. I wont kiss butt to the corporation to make money which is what you suggest. Also to the other guy talking about nukes from ships and such: uhhhhh buddy anyone who is going to nuke you will have a plan about those too. Also I thought you were so livid about other people having bio-weapons yet you dont mind using them yourselves.... hmmm double speak and double think.

Anyway, the question does stand: where would it happen? Maybe WW3/4 will not happen on this planet AT ALL, maybe one day it will be between the colonies of earth and other planets in our system. Maybe we will find a way to terraform planets and then the colonies of Venus, Mars go to war with Earth and the result is total anarchy. Nuclear weapons no longer work over those distances so it would be down to shear numbers kinda of like in Warhammer 40,000.

Originally posted by Flyer
If you create something worth buying, people will buy it. One of the top selling games has no protection at all but people buy it because its worth it. Thats not true with films and especially music these days.

Its astounding the soon the US corporations will force you to buy electrical equipement that will prevent you from recording certain things.

Also, the music price labels have been convicted or price fixing and are now being sued again, that tells you what kind of people they are.

There are no lobbyists in the UK as its illegal and a conflict of interest to have politicians being paid to pass laws for big corporations and to screw the general public.

I do believe the US should outlaw lobbying, it would be interesting to see how it would change politics(completely). I have no knowledge of the UK political system other than its basic structure, so this would be very refreshing. Maybe I should lobby to end lobbying, that would be a hoot.

I completely agree with your take on the entertainment industry, but the only thing is protections are needed for others intellectual property. It doesnt matter because if its worth buying, then its worth stealing as well(to those who do). I hate the whole walk a mile in their shoes bid, but its the best analogy for this scenario here. If it were yours, you would want protection on it. Maybe its just me.

Originally posted by Vekar
Ok... to the bu#es: No point arguing when you cant change me and cannot convince me about that load of bull about jobs and money making. I wont kiss butt to the corporation to make money which is what you suggest. Also to the other guy talking about nukes from ships and such: uhhhhh buddy anyone who is going to nuke you will have a plan about those too. Also I thought you were so livid about other people having bio-weapons yet you dont mind using them yourselves.... hmmm double speak and double think.

Anyway, the question does stand: where would it happen? Maybe WW3/4 will not happen on this planet AT ALL, maybe one day it will be between the colonies of earth and other planets in our system. Maybe we will find a way to terraform planets and then the colonies of Venus, Mars go to war with Earth and the result is total anarchy. Nuclear weapons no longer work over those distances so it would be down to shear numbers kinda of like in Warhammer 40,000.

No ones trying to change your stance, I dont expect anyone to change their positions based on what I tell them(or show them). When has anyone suggested you kiss butt to corporations? I havent, I live a modest life, and enjoy it this way. I make no profit kissing any corporations ass because I kiss none(or anyones for that matter).

The US hasnt used Bio weapons since the first world war(I'm a bit shakey on this detail maybe we didnt). I beg to differ on the nuclear weapons not working though. It seems to have kept the nuclear powers in check for well over half a century. People say Russia has a missile defense, maybe they do, but is it battle tested. Theres absolutly no way you would even want to battel test it. All I have to say about this(and it applies to all nuclear powers) is good luck stopping the 15-20 MIRV's from each missile entering the atmosphere at 25,000(give or take a few thosuand mph) mph.

Originally posted by ludaChris
The US hasnt used Bio weapons since the first world war(I'm a bit shakey on this detail maybe we didnt).

I disagree.

www.apfn.org...

The US uses chemical and biological agents on their own people, apparantly they are allowed to do it but will invade anyone else who has the same weapons.

Unfortunately Flyer is right. During the Cold War the United States did some of the kinds of things that we'd like to think that only the dirty dang commies did, and of course the Nazis did. It sucks, but we did it.

We were trying to figure out how to efficiently kill people if push came to shove with the USSR. I assume the powers that be justified it to themselves by saying that they had to kill a few hundred Americans so that if it ever came to war that more Americans would survive than would perish. That's called rationalizing and it's generally frowned on by ethicists, but it is what it is.


Heres the thing about the tie in to Iraq that flyer was making. Forgive me if I quote Clint Eastwood. "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it."
Nobody ever declares war because the other side deserves it. Nobody deserves a war, and even if somebody did it's a little ironic to send the "good guys" into a war just because the "bad guys" deserve it. That's not the point. It makes a good essay for sociology major or seminary student, but it has nothing to do with why people kill and get killed out in the real world.

What's going on in the real world is this: Somebody sees somebody else doing something that threatens their standing in the world, and they do what they have to do to make the other side stop it. It doesn't matter if the offense in question is fishing in disputed waters or manufacturing hundreds of tons of Sarin gas, and it doesn't matter if the side declaring war does the same thing: they're not attacking because the offense is wrong, their attacking because it's bad for them.

Sucks, don't it?

Here's the deal though. If you're against it, put your money where your mouth is and give up the ill-gotten fruits of life in a first world country. Now, perhaps you are from Switzerland or New Zealand, or some other nation which does't fight its own wars very often. That's no defense if you are gaining anything by trading with some other nation which has prospered by oppression.

Do you drink coffee? Congratulations, you helped starve Ethiopia.

Do you have a cellular phone, satellite TV, etc? Did you know that the US Space program that paved the way for that beat out a proposal to prove America's technological superiority by undertaking a massive irrigation and infrastructure project for third world nations?

Do you heat your home, drive a car, or consume any product transported by road?
You are aware that Britain and France drew arbitary borders in the Middle East, making the politics of the middle east far mor volatile than they had to be, just for convenience sake, and that the relative failure of these nations has kept their oil open to our companies, right?
For that matter, you are aware that the US victory in the cold war opened the Siberian oil fields up to Western companies, right? You profited directly from our nuclear weapons, hypocrite.

In a nutshell, if you aren't in the third world getting raped, you're in the first world contributing to the rape. There's nowhere on Earth you can really go to escape it. There are only two ways to ever change it- 1 is exceptionally dangerous and likely to fail, the other requires a radical evolution of the human race that will probably be a few millenia coming: 1. A benevolent dictatorship of one world government. 2. Every human being on the planet transcends self and thinks in terms of the human race.

Originally posted by Flyer

Exactly, Bushs greed for oil has bred distrust from everyone else in the world, including the previous allies of the US.

Hes turning the world popluation against the US at an alarming rate and thats amazing considering the sympathy they had after 11/9.

lets try this again, sorry new around here.
not to single anyone out but, i hate when someone says bush is in it for the oil... yes maybe he is, but don't you need it too? i ride my bike to work every morning to lessen my countrys need for oil. i refuse to buy an S.U.V like everyone else. no one is clean where the oil issue is concerned.. and i hope there is no war. i have already been in one, although i played only a minor part. thanks guys

[edit on 11-3-2006 by landshark]

True he is in it for oil, but also for money, his buddies CANNOT function without oil and they are going to milk the cow as long as they can then shoot it for meat. In this case we are the cow, once we have served our purpose we no longer have one. The worst part you could say is we dont NEED oil anymore, we have enough technology laying around that has been supressed for the past 60 years to do away with such a primitive resource, but that would alter price scales and world power and they dont want to do that just yet because they are making good money.

Originally posted by Vekar
True he is in it for oil, but also for money, his buddies CANNOT function without oil and they are going to milk the cow as long as they can then shoot it for meat. In this case we are the cow, once we have served our purpose we no longer have one. The worst part you could say is we dont NEED oil anymore, we have enough technology laying around that has been supressed for the past 60 years to do away with such a primitive resource, but that would alter price scales and world power and they dont want to do that just yet because they are making good money.

your statement that we don't need oil anymore has merrit, but are you forgetting one little thing?

almost everything around you is derived from petrol based products.
from the keys on your keyboard to the buttons on your alarm clock.
unless we can make these products from some other source. i would like to quote a very good friend of mine, "whats a monkey to do?"

Its not about 'who can the US trust'.

The US is just a tool that is being used to foward this endgame.

'Who can YOU trust' might be a better question. Inevitably, a true 3rd WW will make a stop in your neighbourhood. Do you think the US as an entity is gonna be there for YOU......

Short answer...nope.....Doubt it very much.

When the 'you know what' hits the fan you will be put in a position to protect yourself and your family and you WILL be on your own.

Major urban centers will be a liability with respect to your hide

Originally posted by landshark
lets try this again, sorry new around here.
not to single anyone out but, i hate when someone says bush is in it for the oil... yes maybe he is, but don't you need it too? i ride my bike to work every morning to lessen my countrys need for oil. i refuse to buy an S.U.V like everyone else. no one is clean where the oil issue is concerned.. and i hope there is no war. i have already been in one, although i played only a minor part. thanks guys

[edit on 11-3-2006 by landshark]

The whole world needs oil but the correct way is to trade to get it, not to invade countries because you want it cheaper and to award countless contract to Bush and his buddies companies.

I belive in order to get away from it you use it as much as possible to your advantage while working on it which is NOT being done, insteads its use it to your advantage then make more things that require more crude oil. If I wanted to push away from it (use of oil) I could start using a loom to make clothing or ask a Navajo lady to make me some clothing with a loom or a paddle sewing machine. As for alternate oils, vegtable oils or specially derived ones that can be used for fuel, lubricant, etc. Some people are already doing this but it costs allot because you have to filter large amounts of veg. oil to get what you need since its not done on a large scale.
Frankly I have to agree again, who could WE trust? We cannot trust the govt. we cannot trust other govt.s to look out for us so..... what to do. Redneck towns will die off fast because they are hopelessly dependent on the govt. or would turn into a modern "road pirate" and kill all they see just for some canned food and the like. Frankly thats why I kinda like survivalists, they lock themselves in knowing that its gonna happen sometime and when it does they wont have to worry because they are prepared for it.
Question should be: WHEN will it happen?

The bible and nostradamus predict that the third world war will have Europe as the centre stage and from Europe the NEW WORLD ORDEr shall arise.

In terms of a third world war this is what will happen:

USA will stupidly exhaust herself by deploying as much firepower over as large areas as possible in the shortest amount of time and blow herself out while Russia and China use mass force and eventually win, remember Chinese people in countries like the USA and Australia make up a significant number of the population. Every china town would be armed and stir up domestic crap.

France will be the first to back out or not fight at all [their French as if they'll do well]
Japan will unleash their ancient philosophy of the Samurai and fight till the very end I belive, almost all Japanese men do this in the business field and polls have indicated that Japanese people work FOR THEIR COUNTRY not for themselves. However China will be seething to gain revenge and eventually unleashing wave upon wave of ground troops will win the day for them. China will win the Asian theatre of war and make greater Asia communist with the help of Vitenam and North Korea.

The European theatre of war will go to Britain, how so you ask? Well lets face it Britons were born to fight, for over 500 years we have been the most powerful nation in Europe and have been to the top in and out for over 1000 years. The history and notion of Empire still flows greatly, also when France shows up its pathetic performance Germany I'm sure will strongly aid Britain, after all the two races [aryan-anglo saxon] are so intertwined plus Germany has more sense than France.

Russia will only focus on America and forget Asia and Europe, Russia has been longing for a chance to do this for over 50 years. Russia will win Americas thetre of war since US will target everywhere and not concentrate firepower.

Now Africa, this I think will be the most surprising of all, it has been foretold that an African leader will rise up and lead the whole continent tow ar, and I think they might make an impact maybe ravaging and defeating the French army by passing up through Gilbralter, the French surrender after losing 200 men of course.

The middle east will be totally wiped off the map since all Islamic nations have been secretly stockpiling weapons for over 50 years in a holy pledge to destroy ISrael, again lilke Russia they won't care about anything else but destroying ISrael, they don't care if the world ends or not just so long as in Heaven they can say "we finally drove em into the sea"

theirs my two cents worth
p.s the French were disallowed into Heaven for not fighting

WWIII is over.

It was the Cold War.

We can't have WWIII because it's already been played out.

ALL these going-ons in the world are a product of WWI and the breakdown of the colonial empires.

I believe that the single most important that the American government should be focusing all of it's finances and resources on should be a viable alterative fuel source. If we could just manage to find a way to power our autos alone without the use of oil it would cut our dependence on foreign oil in more than half. I realize that these alternate energies have already been developed, but for whatever reason have not been implemented with any real force. Probably due to the fact that our country is headed up by a Texas oil monger and his bussies in big oil would disown him if he dared raise a voice against them. Not to mention Im sure the Bush family as a whole probably has a lot of $$$ tied up in the oil companies. So instead, we let our troops die for a bogus need of oil, meanwhile they are gouging us right in the a** every time we fill up ($2.65 gallon and rising here) The government keeps claiming that there is no real oil shortage, and if that is true then the only true reason for gas prices being this high is nothing but corporate greed. Remember, last year oil companies raked in a record high profit. If the western world can ween itself off of the foreign oil teet, we would basically have no need to do business in the middle east at all. We would no longer be funding our enemies, and we could all just back out of the region and leave the radical Muslim countries to destroy themselves. Would definately prevent the U.S. from having to stick it's nose into the arab world anymore, which would prevent future conflict. The way it's looking now, there will be no WWIII any time soon, hopefully nevers. But we are looking at a few more years of much raking in the 3rd world wasteland that is Iraq.