If WWIII breaks out, who can the U.S. trust?

Originally posted by porky1981
You need a wake up call..... britain will be in the line of fire no matter where your allegiance lies. If there is a war, britain will be on the U.S's side, face it.

I wouldnt be so sure seeing as Blair was almost forced to resign over the invasion of Iraq. Its very difficult to enter a war if the public dont want it.

Id rather align with other Euro countries than the US and that shows how much hatred most of Britain has for the US as a country.

WWIV :the China-Totalitarian Remnant-Aligned Terrorist War will be fought here and there around the world just like the Cold War was but it won't turninto a hot war.

The eventual outcome will be world government. It the only way to contain such threats.

Even if you as a citizen disagree strongly with your governments actions and policies and believe that your country is heading down a very slippery slope, what can you really do about it as a single individual? Even if you believe that your leaders have overstepped and ignored the wishes of it's people and are fastly becoming a rogue state, what are you going to do about it? Sure, you can show your contempt at the ballot box, but in reality one politician is as corrupt and crooked as the next. You can protest, but at the end of the day it doesn't really accomplish any real change. Many people on these threads believe in a revolution, or a retaking of our government forcefully in order to implement change. But thats not really an option. The days of opposing an unlawful regime by force are gone and forgotten. With the amount of resources and the amount of firepower that the establishment has at their disposal, an unprising would be almost futile. How can the people really make a difference? Complain until the cows come home, but in reality what can you do about any of it? NOTHING. Governments will do whatever they want and continue to get away with it and the fact of the matter is that we can't do jack**** about it. Sad but true.



[edit on 5-3-2006 by BlackOps719]

Id rather align with other Euro countries than the US and that shows how much hatred most of Britain has for the US as a country.

I seriously doubt that one persons warped views represent the majority of sane people in the UK. Im sure just the same that there are many Americans who hate England and it's people as well, but they are overwhelmed and greatly outnumbered by those who are rational and reasonable and understand that we are sister countries and bound together, socially, economically and culturally. Personally I am of Scottish /Irish heritage and I have had nothing but the best experiences when traveling abroad in the UK. Great culture, great people...IMO.

[edit on 5-3-2006 by BlackOps719]

Originally posted by BlackOps719
I hate to be the one to point this out, but who came to help out when Nazi bombs were exploding over jolly old London? Does loyalty count for nothing in this modern age? Besides, as a resident of the UK, would you rather align with western society and freedom of thought or would you rather live in an Islamo-fascist state? Or worse, under communist rule? Better figure out who's side your on. Fence sitting will not be permitted.

[edit on 4-3-2006 by BlackOps719]

Well with arrigant comments like that (Especially if from the US) i go we the commies lol....they probably got less of an ego.

I say the UK sit on the fence like last time the US will come to the "Resque" safe on th fence less friendly fire.

I know the UK, Canada and Russia were just pure by standards in ww2....even though russia prob moved more ground and had an actual front longer than the US or UK did.

US

Blackops:
The days of revolution by force are NOT over, people are still doing it only it takes more time. Oddly depending on the nation it happens in yes the people will get defeted or no they wont. Its VERY easy for a country to keep OUT an enemy unlike trying to fight one who is all around you and inside of you. China... well thats suicidal, they can throw 3 million troops into one location and think nothing of it. The US can be overthrown quite easily, proven by the fact they cant hold down one city in Iraq even after flattening it with bombs and missiles let alone a country the size of texas. Europe would have a 50/50 shot since its kinda okward in terrain, govt. would be able to flood some areas but not others. South America.. easy as heck, just make contact with your local blackmarket guy and your on your way. Russia.... shoot. no comment. Africa.... ehhhhh you get the picture. Canada... not gonna happen.
Like I said it all depends on the country, terrain, the people, the number of enemy troops, technology and your ability to thwart it. This country could easily have a civil war if one was to get pushed for, there is so much space that you could hide whole armies with ease and supply them at the same time and never get cought. Satellites are not 100% foolproof and so long as you know what your doing they wont see you at all nor a UAV. This country had 2 civil wars, british vs. british=American Revolution, followed by the civil war, well maybe we will have another. We do have a unique ability of turning a pile of rubble into a thriving city. The govt. is weaker than some people would think, just not legally or economically.
Maybe WW3/4 will happen due to a civil war in the US, the sudden dissapearance of the most voracouse buyers in the world... China has to find a new outlet, Europe is suddenly left alone and wondering: "what the heck?!" so maybe WW3/4 (Ok I will go with the ww4 thing because yes the cold war was a "global war") has to happen in order for things to straighten out. For one thing it would be good in the LONG RUN just to stop the madness and hopefully this time we learn from out mistakes. The continental army didnt bleed to death for nothing, nor did the people in WW1-2 so lets not let them have died in vain. I think the mistake we keep making is by allowing these peope to get away and live to fight another day, they as in bush admin, corporations, ect.
The continental army faced a VERY powerfull army, and was outnumbered 100/1 but through atricion they won, and also 100% turnaround in tactics. By all meens NO ONE IN THE WORLD would survive against the govt. if they followed the usual tactics, any revolution no matter WHERE it is would REQUIRE a change in tactics to the point you have to redo the whole military tactical docrine.
Then again maybe if WW4 broke out due to civil war in the US more would follow and in the end we would have a very interesting world to look at. So far the few countries that are ripe for civil war are: USA, China (if someone gets brave and foolish), Russia, certain african continents, the middle east, SOME south american countries, and thats about it. The question is will it happen and no one can say: "No its impossible" because people thought flying was impossible once and now its just part of life.

Originally posted by Vekar
Blackops:
The days of revolution by force are NOT over, people are still doing it only it takes more time. Oddly depending on the nation it happens in yes the people will get defeted or no they wont. Its VERY easy for a country to keep OUT an enemy unlike trying to fight one who is all around you and inside of you. China... well thats suicidal, they can throw 3 million troops into one location and think nothing of it. The US can be overthrown quite easily, proven by the fact they cant hold down one city in Iraq even after flattening it with bombs and missiles let alone a country the size of texas. Europe would have a 50/50 shot since its kinda okward in terrain, govt. would be able to flood some areas but not others. South America.. easy as heck, just make contact with your local blackmarket guy and your on your way. Russia.... shoot. no comment. Africa.... ehhhhh you get the picture. Canada... not gonna happen.
Like I said it all depends on the country, terrain, the people, the number of enemy troops, technology and your ability to thwart it. This country could easily have a civil war if one was to get pushed for, there is so much space that you could hide whole armies with ease and supply them at the same time and never get cought. Satellites are not 100% foolproof and so long as you know what your doing they wont see you at all nor a UAV. This country had 2 civil wars, british vs. british=American Revolution, followed by the civil war, well maybe we will have another. We do have a unique ability of turning a pile of rubble into a thriving city. The govt. is weaker than some people would think, just not legally or economically.
Maybe WW3/4 will happen due to a civil war in the US, the sudden dissapearance of the most voracouse buyers in the world... China has to find a new outlet, Europe is suddenly left alone and wondering: "what the heck?!" so maybe WW3/4 (Ok I will go with the ww4 thing because yes the cold war was a "global war") has to happen in order for things to straighten out. For one thing it would be good in the LONG RUN just to stop the madness and hopefully this time we learn from out mistakes. The continental army didnt bleed to death for nothing, nor did the people in WW1-2 so lets not let them have died in vain. I think the mistake we keep making is by allowing these peope to get away and live to fight another day, they as in bush admin, corporations, ect.
The continental army faced a VERY powerfull army, and was outnumbered 100/1 but through atricion they won, and also 100% turnaround in tactics. By all meens NO ONE IN THE WORLD would survive against the govt. if they followed the usual tactics, any revolution no matter WHERE it is would REQUIRE a change in tactics to the point you have to redo the whole military tactical docrine.
Then again maybe if WW4 broke out due to civil war in the US more would follow and in the end we would have a very interesting world to look at. So far the few countries that are ripe for civil war are: USA, China (if someone gets brave and foolish), Russia, certain african continents, the middle east, SOME south american countries, and thats about it. The question is will it happen and no one can say: "No its impossible" because people thought flying was impossible once and now its just part of life.

China can not throw 3 million troops anywhere without thinking twice about it. Their standing army is 2.5 million appx. Dont confuse the huge population of a country with its ability to throw troops at you, it costs a lot of money to field an army that large, some countries could do it if necessary, but no country is prepared to do so at the moment.

Where did you get your facts about the US not being able to hold a city in Iraq. I beleive thats whats happening right now. And another thing, we didnt level any cities with bombs and missiles. If we did why would we bother occupying, if we can just level the city and be done with it.

Sattellites are prety much fool-proof, its the analysts that decipher what is in the pictures that are fallible.

I seriously doubt another civil war here in the US. People have too much to lose here at home and I doubt well see Americans fighting each other any time soon. I dont see civil war in Russia or Chinas future either. You are forgetting factors in countries like the US like political stability, high standard of living ect. You dont see civil war in such places typically. As for Russia and China, I dont see civil war there because 1, the mob runs Russia, and for China look at the Tienamen Square protests and the numerous other demonstrations that have been put down, it wont be allowed there.

Originally posted by Flyer

I wouldnt be so sure seeing as Blair was almost forced to resign over the invasion of Iraq. Its very difficult to enter a war if the public dont want it.

Id rather align with other Euro countries than the US and that shows how much hatred most of Britain has for the US as a country.

I admire your faith mate but don't think it works that way - 2 million of us marched and brought London to a standstill - we were ignored.

Also I don't agree that most (or even a few) of UK 'hates' the US. We may pity them, laugh at them, find them deeply worrying (and then that's their Govt/Pres/Media not the average guys) and be scared of their army blowing our army up but hate? No.

If the chips are down we'll be there with them if we agree with the cause. If we don't (like Vietnam - when we had a Govt who would stand up for OUR interests) we won't.

No permanent allies or permanent enemies - only permanent interests

Originally posted by Vekar
Blackops:
The days of revolution by force are NOT over, people are still doing it only it takes more time.

Funny. I can't think of one first world country where this is happening...

[qute]China... well thats suicidal, they can throw 3 million troops into one location and think nothing of it.
lol
As luda pointed out, no they can't. Unless that 3 million is within their own country.

The US can be overthrown quite easily

The US is in a spot that is absolutely perfect for defense. It would take manpower and resources that NO country has right now. No two countries together have enough manpower and resources to sucessfully over throw the U.S. Not arrogance. Facts.
Since most people here think for whatever reason we'll fight some sort of China/NK/Russia alliance, how are all the equipment and troops that would be needed to overthrow the US get here? They try to come through Canada, with Canada being owed by the British, they'd have to deal with not only the US but also the British and the rest of NATO (who would be obligated to help us anyway). From the Pacific, they'd have to put up with a superior US Navy, the Australians, the Japenese, etc. Just trying to get to the US would be a pain for anyone.

proven by the fact they cant hold down one city in Iraq even after flattening it with bombs and missiles let alone a country the size of texas.

luda already went through this.
If we wanted to flatten any city, we would have. But we didn't. That was not the goal.

Maybe WW3/4 will happen due to a civil war in the US, the sudden dissapearance of the most voracouse buyers in the world... China has to find a new outlet, Europe is suddenly left alone and wondering: "what the heck?!" so maybe WW3/4 (Ok I will go with the ww4 thing because yes the cold war was a "global war") has to happen in order for things to straighten out.

1. Just wanted to say it's not "easy" for a civil war to break out in the US as you suggested. It's not easy for any modern country to break out. So many factors would have to come into play at just the right time that the chances of that happening are very low.

2. But if there was one, your quote above would be right. If the US were to slip into civil war, causing it's status to drop rapidly. The whole world would be affected as people would start to manuver to have the balance of power shift their way.

So far the few countries that are ripe for civil war are: USA, China (if someone gets brave and foolish), Russia, certain african continents, the middle east, SOME south american countries, and thats about it. The question is will it happen and no one can say: "No its impossible" because people thought flying was impossible once and now its just part of life.

Anything is possible, but again, Civil Wars just breaking out in modern civilized countries are not that probable. Look at what the U.S. went through during the 50s, 60s, and 70s with the Civil Rights Movement then everything with Vietnam. That's three decades of being "ripe" for civil war, yet no civil war broke out. Now if no civil war broke out after 30 years of massive protests, riots, and civil disorder why would you think one would break out based on the past 5 years?
In China, they're going through what we went through in the late 90s with their economic growth. Who would want to mess that up? They're finally gaining respect and acceptance in the world community. And I seriously don't think anyone is brave enough to step up to the government yet. As you stated, they have a HUGE army. Who would be willing to step up to that without help?
As far as Russia, I really don't see any reason for a civil war to break out there. And again, rising up against countries with very large armies usually doesn't end well if you recieve no help.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
I seriously doubt that one persons warped views represent the majority of sane people in the UK. Im sure just the same that there are many Americans who hate England and it's people as well, but they are overwhelmed and greatly outnumbered by those who are rational and reasonable and understand that we are sister countries and bound together, socially, economically and culturally. Personally I am of Scottish /Irish heritage and I have had nothing but the best experiences when traveling abroad in the UK. Great culture, great people...IMO.

[edit on 5-3-2006 by BlackOps719]

Nope, everyone I know hate Bush and the US. You dont understand, there is a widespread of hatred of America throughout the world, not a hatred of American people.

Thats a big, big difference.

Also, the bigger question is, if WWIII breaks out, who would trust the US?

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Flyer]

Originally posted by Strangerous
Also I don't agree that most (or even a few) of UK 'hates' the US. We may pity them, laugh at them, find them deeply worrying (and then that's their Govt/Pres/Media not the average guys) and be scared of their army blowing our army up but hate? No.

If the chips are down we'll be there with them if we agree with the cause. If we don't (like Vietnam - when we had a Govt who would stand up for OUR interests) we won't.

No permanent allies or permanent enemies - only permanent interests

I agree with all that but I think the majority hate the US government and thus the US itself, not the people.

Originally posted by Flyer

Originally posted by BlackOps719
I seriously doubt that one persons warped views represent the majority of sane people in the UK. Im sure just the same that there are many Americans who hate England and it's people as well, but they are overwhelmed and greatly outnumbered by those who are rational and reasonable and understand that we are sister countries and bound together, socially, economically and culturally. Personally I am of Scottish /Irish heritage and I have had nothing but the best experiences when traveling abroad in the UK. Great culture, great people...IMO.

[edit on 5-3-2006 by BlackOps719]

Nope, everyone I know hate Bush and the US. You dont understand, there is a widespread of hatred of America throughout the world, not a hatred of American people.

Thats a big, big difference.

Also, the bigger question is, if WWIII breaks out, who would trust the US?

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Flyer]

Sorry Flyer but I have to disagree.

The fact that we see Mr Bush, Dead Eye Cheyney and the others that are currently inhabiting the most powerful building on the planet as not exactly the best people to be leading the free world does not mean that we hate everything and anything that is American !

Yes, we have a laugh at Mr Bush and his mistakes, I disagree personally with many of his policies, and I do think that at some point, we ought to transplant Jon Coulshaw for GW and see if anyone notices the difference (sorry, you other nationalities, thats a UK only joke, he does possibly the best and funniest Bush impression/impersonation around), and yes, sometimes I get frustrated at the US, its domination of world politics, economics and more increasingly Culture, However, that is where most of the people of the uk's dissatisfaction with regards the US stops. It seems that you, and the people you socialise / converse with, live in some anti-US enclave of the UK which I yet have to encounter, and to be fair, dont really care to either.

I know one thing, The US may not be the MOST highly educated society, nor the MOST cultured, they dont have the BEST record on poverty levels and their health system isnt AS GOOD as the UK, their diet and health are reaching a WORRYING level and they have a leader who sometimes seems to be a FOOL................... but if it comes down to it, and I have to strap on a rifle, and sit in a trench, facing an invading force, I dont want to look round to the man next to me, or to the man behind me and see a Frenchman, or a German, or an Italian, and look over that field and see the US ARMY advancing towards me, no sir, I want to look round and see the US Marines on one side, the US army on the other, and over the top of me the USAF because when it comes down to the sh*t, I know I will be able to depend on them !

Originally posted by Argus
but if it comes down to it, and I have to strap on a rifle, and sit in a trench, facing an invading force, I dont want to look round to the man next to me, or to the man behind me and see a Frenchman, or a German, or an Italian, and look over that field and see the US ARMY advancing towards me, no sir, I want to look round and see the US Marines on one side, the US army on the other, and over the top of me the USAF because when it comes down to the sh*t, I know I will be able to depend on them !

The only thing you could depend on is that they would shoot first and think later and it would be them killing you and not the enemy.

Having Americans on 3 sides would scare me a hell of a lot more than having the enemy on 3 sides!

First off china, russia, whoever that decides to attack the US WONT have to sent troops, just use long range missiles and bomb the bejesus out of the US then mop up later on down the line. Americans are loosing homes every day and things are going downhill, unlike in vietnam people now have nothing to loose. In vietnam people had cushy homes to go to afterwords and jobs awaiting unlike now, McDonalds is the best you can pull for the most part unless you duck the kid from India who will do the same job for 70% less. 37 million people in the US now work below the poverty line, over 6 million unemployed, 1/3 the homeless population is veteran... Well if this country is NOT ripe for civil war it will never be. My point of arrogance is proven and I wont say anymore on that unless I want to see people fume at me because I am right.
MANY african nations are in civil war RIGHT NOW, so there you go for first set, Columbia, El Salvadore, Mexico (Zapatistas), etc. Maybe you need to put down NY times and look around you for once and open your eyes the US is not the whole world its just a dinky part of it.
The US IS in a perfect spot for defence from an OUTSIDER but its NOT in perfect defence for someone who is already here.... reread my post.
Falluja, flattened, since when was the US there for reconstruction? OH RIGHT! the oil wells! Gotta keep corporations happy!
#1 reason for civil war: Same stuff is happening again, only now it will cost lives for the next 4.5 billion years (DU) so..... yeah thats justifiable, you didnt finish the job the first time after Vietnam so get it right for once so no one will have to put up with this bull anymore.

Back to subject: The US could count on NO ONE if they launch WW4 FIRST, if someone ELSE does then MAYBE 2 nations will join in, the others would want nothing to do with it and would sit back and say: "the chickens have come home to roost."

Flyer -

It just seems to me that you have a deep seeded, unwarrented hatred and natural aggression toward Americans. Which is fine, that is your perogative and certainly you are free to hate anyone you wish. Just as many people here in America hate the British and the French, often for no real reason other than stereotype and lack of first hand experience. The fact of the matter is, on any given sunny day in the good old U.S. of A. most Americans, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, could honestly care less what you as a European thinks of us. There will always be hatred and jealousy when you are the big dog on the block no matter who you are.

The real truth is that as Americans, we are too busy working for a living, caring for our families, enjoying all of the top notch entertainment that we have, boating, fishing, flying an airplane, starting a business, taking advantage of the greatest higher education that money can buy, and ABSOLUTELY enjoying the highest standard of living in the WORLD to really care. With so much freedom and so many choices I find it difficult to find the time to sit around and hate a bunch of Euro snobs, like yourself, because in the true reality of the situation as a whole, your opinion means less than nothing to me.

With so much for Americans to embrace and enjoy and be thankful for, most of us really don't get around to giving a crap what the rest of the world thinks of us or how the rest of the world views us. You may not like it, but it's true. It sucks to be on the outside looking in I guess, directing your misguided anger toward an entire nationality of people who could care less. And for you and others like you in foreign countries who supposedly hate us Yanks so much, if you hate us, why do you emulate us to the point of disgust?

Here is an idea, don't watch our television shows, don't wear our fashions, don't buy our products, don't listen to our music, don't fill your theaters to watch our movies. Don't try so hard to be like us. You mock and imitate every aspect of our culture and you can't seem to swallow it fast enough. And for the record, I don't hate people of any nationality just because of where they reside. And I refuse to group an entire culture of people based on the misguided and downright idiotic ideals of one troubled individual. You obviously do not agree with U.S. politics, just as MOST Americans do not agree with U.S. politics currently in place. We are really not that different as people (U.S. U.K.) even if none of us want to admit it. I suggest you make a real effort to find out for yourself.

Otherwise
All I can say for ya is - you don't have to like us, but you damn sure have to live with us, because the fact is, like it or not, we aren't going anywhere. So get used to it.

Americans are loosing homes every day and things are going downhill, unlike in vietnam people now have nothing to loose. In vietnam people had cushy homes to go to afterwords and jobs awaiting unlike now, McDonalds is the best you can pull for the most part unless you duck the kid from India who will do the same job for 70% less.

Vekar.....I don't know if you actually live in America or if you read a lot of nonsense on the internet or what. The unemployment rate where I live is less than 2% and there are opportunities everywhere for those who want them. The people you arerefering to are the bottom 5%, those that choose not to work and not to take advantage of the opportunities available to them It's true - if you are an American and you are expecting to have a living provided for you then you are sadly mistaken and will most likely end up homeless and hungry, much like anywhere else in the world. It's true that the factory production jobs and low wage jobs are being farmed out to other countries like Mexico, but this is only paving the way for higher paying creers in other fields. Believe that Americans are poor and hopeless if you want, but you would just be wrong.

As for a long range nuclear assault from China or Russia, do you not understand the fact that if America were launched upon, we have the aility and the nuclear arsenal to more or less obliterate any country who chose to do so? It would be suicide on their part, so most likely could or would never happen. And we are not even close to any sort of civil war here. This is purely B.S. through and through. And forgget any type of land invasion here. Even IF a country were able to physically deploy troops on American soil, which is highly unlikely, and THEN managed to defeat our military (easier said than done) just the sheer size of trying to physically take a country this size would be IMPOSSIBLE. Never mind the millions of gun weilding rednecks and private citizens who are already armed to the teeth that could field a guerilla army the size of a third world countries entire military. Would never happen. For all of the talk and rhetoric and political divide here in the states, I don't know of a single able bodied citizen who wouldn't pick up a rifle and fight to the death if a foreign military touched this soil. Don't underestimate us. If a group of farmers could defeat and chase out the entire British Army, imagine what 20,000,000 armed militia men could do.

accidental re-post

[edit on 6-3-2006 by BlackOps719]

An answer to the question would be kind of hard given that we don't know who WW3 would be against. Traditionally we have relied on Britain, Australia, and New Zealand in the past, and Canada is a part of that alliance although they generally have stayed out of non-UN-mandated wars in the past. On a broader level, due more to economic ties and military necessities would be Japan and South Korea, and possibly Taiwan. Both South Korea and Taiwan contributed military troops to fight in Vietnam (although Taiwanese troops had to be quickly removed before they started World War 3). I'm guessing Singapore and Thailand might also offer assistance in some form, if not military troops on the ground. NATO and its member countries could be relied upon, as they were following 9/11 and in Afghanistan.

But really it all depends on the justness of our cause and the rationale for going to war and the plan for waging it. Even our closest allies aren't going to support us if we decided to invade a country for no good reason. This isn't some veiled reference to Iraq, either, it's just a simple fact. If we invade Canada or France or Germany tommorow we obviously won't be able to rely on anyone.

Originally posted by BlackOps719


Here is an idea, don't watch our television shows, don't wear our fashions, don't buy our products, don't listen to our music, don't fill your theaters to watch our movies. Don't try so hard to be like us. You mock and imitate every aspect of our culture and you can't seem to swallow it fast enough. . So get used to it.

Likewise mate

Don't stoke the fires, don't lump us in with the French (two very different countries!) and don't assume that one person speaks for all (or many) of us.

I refuse to believe many septics hate us teabags or vice versa. Sure we can criticize each other, make jokes, find each other gauche, insensitive and funnily-dressed but hate, no that's far too strong.

When did this turn into a UK Vs US thread?

So, let me get this straight, the US is bullying the rest of the world, poking other countries in the nuts, and at the same time looking over it's shoulder to the rest of world saying "guys if this goes ugly you'll help us out right?"

This is the best joke ever. The sooner someone nukes your backwards politics and reasoning the better. Get it over with already, I've officially lost all hope after reading this thread.

And to those who are so happy to "back them up", make sure you know you're supporting the biggest terrorist nation on the planet that is essentially the cause of all the trouble in the first place!

Have fun waving your d*cks around, I'll be on the fence laughing.

Let me just state once and for all that I do NOT support George Bush, I do NOT support the Iraq war. I hate the fact that young men and women (many personal friends of mine) are dying every day in that godforsaken place for no legitimate reason. I do NOT condone any bullying tactics by our government and I, as an American citizen, would like nothing more than to see king George dethroned and prosecuted of his crimes. He is making a mockery of our country, it's citizens, and his policies and bad decisions are a direct threat to our way of life. That being said, I love my country and would shed blood and give my life for it. I believe in the ideals and the visions of our forefathers and I will do everything that I can to defend the American truths of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If you want to bash Bush and our current administration, I will be the first one to join in along with you. But when you bad mouth America and it's people you degrade me personally, my family, my country and everything that I hold dear. Forgive me if my posts have offended anyone on this thread as I realize this is a very sensitive topic. That being said, I will never apologize for defending America and our way of life. Still the best place in the world IMO and I would never live anywhere else.

[edit on 6-3-2006 by BlackOps719]