If WWIII breaks out, who can the U.S. trust?

I have very similar views but they involve Tony Bliar and this Sceptered Isle.

Don't badmouth my country and I won't point out the failings of yours - OK?

All the people who know what is really going on in this country should impeach Bush or do some kind of a revolution if you don't want you're country to be nuked because of the Bu.sh's policies.

Good luck and hurry, the time is spinning fast!

[edit on 6-3-2006 by Vitchilo]

Are you asking: "If WWIII breaks out, who can trust the U.S. ?" It might be a better question to ask.

Ironically the ones who say they do NOT support bush in the end DO support bush by supporting those who fight FOR him. Also ALL of this has to do with it: The US could not trust its own people thats a fact, they would take the chance to get rid of the current govt. and do so. Also the only ones I know that say people can find good jobs all over if they are willing to work are upper middle class people who dont need the jobs. I would like them to tell "oh you can get a job if you work!!" to a poor white person or black woman who works 4 jobs and only goes home for about 4 hours out of the day and STILL cant pull it off. You are SEVERLY putting down americans, americans on the whole work HARD when given the chance to do it so long as there is a decent reward for it and there is NO "high paying" jobs available to the populace like people would like others to believe. I dont know where you get your "oh we are paving the way" from but I have heard it before just like blackop says it and I dont believe on word of it. Why? Because frankly I dont see any jobs myself let alone others I know, shoot I can only name 1 person who does not "support" bush that says that who is upper middle class the others are hopeless bush supporters. Also you CANNOT convert an economy from one thats used to factory work to one thats "development" and "technological development" based. America was never all that good at it and the ones who are is the Japanese, America WAS known for making ANYTHING you needed. I also live in america, born and raised, also when you put down americans you put YOURSELF down if your american. Also black go to an unemployment place and try and support yourself if your not upper middle class or rich, your going to be standing for a LOOOONGGGG time. Americans ARE poor on the whole, only 1% of the nation control the wealth and does so to an extreme extent, the rest are poor, and the poor class is GROWING RAPIDLY, it wont seem like this if you watch CNN and MSNBC allot like most people do. If everything has to have a CNN stamp on it for it to be truth then your I am sorry to say: A moron, and need to be shot down for the betterment of humanity. I never said Americans are helpless, they just need the oppurtunity to make something of life and it is NOT being provided, all those great jobs of yours are NOT seen by most americans.
Also you didnt listen to me AT ALL:
I never said you send in an army straight off, you use them to mop up areas you want to control and screw the rest, states will proclaim themselves nations and hide or fight other states while you dwell in your newly conquered areas. Next a barrage of nukes would hamper the US more than anyone else in the world, all of our lives are in some way based in a city and when there is no more, your no more. Even all the rednecks need walmart to survive and walmart would go up in smoke in a city during the fighting. Yes the US would fire back but even if they did the enemy would be READY for this if they fired first and thus have some plan to thwart it as much as possible, or maybe fire a few and make it look like they are gone, then fire another wave at you and do a mopup that way. Frankly China has enough mountains to EASILY hide a large population while nukes fall all around the place. The blast would be contained greatly and most of their population would survive if they did this.
20 million armed militia would do nothing to an enemy who expects them, shoot you just kill all meens of production and force them to revert to more primitive meens. If you want to get cruel then poison them with gas which can be done EASILY if you have the aircraft to do it with, just spray whole states and VOILA! free land! FREE TOWNS TOO!!!!! So maybe a nuclear war wont happen, maybe it will be biological, something to spread fast and wipe out a large population and cause chaos and in the chaos fire large amounts of missiles armed with gas at the enemy and finish them off with 0 effect to the enviornment in the long run. So maybe we are looking at this in the wrong way, nuclear? not wise... but biologica? Hard to track! Easily contained, but easily breached if you are the one doing it. Also considering how long it takes to create a vacine, and how you could transfer large amounts of the virus to people and cause it to be insurmountable to cure.... your looking at a serious reduction in numbers in just a few days.
Also its ironic how people say they want to bash bush... wont do squat..... hence why you support them... you refuse to affect them.... you just play along and in the end surrender... Well enough of that, blackop if you want to keep fighting me do it privatly.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
Flyer -

It just seems to me that you have a deep seeded, unwarrented hatred and natural aggression toward Americans.

I stopped reading there because apparantly you are unable to read my posts.

"Nope, everyone I know hate Bush and the US. You dont understand, there is a widespread of hatred of America throughout the world, not a hatred of American people.

Thats a big, big difference. "

I believe what the world despises with regard to the US, are the close ties the government have to corporate America (US), they have become indistiguishable. With the US military at it's disposal wherever a firm hand or a crushing blow is required to get business completed and interests protected and more importantly control in place.

Given the vast amount of evidence that points toward the Bush administration being corruptable and corrupting, it still amazes me just how many people on this site continue to back Bush's policies.

And a vast number of the republican voting constituents of the US are happy to go along with it.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by Koka]

And the US has no sign of backing down either, the corporation owns america so hence we are no longer part of it unless we are corporations or supporters of. WW4 though would be every nation for itself, the nations oppressed by the corporations would sieze the moment and take control and say: "SCREW YOU!" to the corporate ambassador who comes to them demanding they help them or continue to serve them. Like I said before the US could count on NO ONE when it comes down to non corporate controled nations, GB would be there and Canada because they both are controlled by them to a great extent even if they dont know it.

Originally posted by Vekar
Like I said before the US could count on NO ONE when it comes down to non corporate controled nations, GB would be there and Canada because they both are controlled by them to a great extent even if they dont know it.

I would say that the more informed general public are highly aware of corporate control over the government in all western countries.

Unfortunately, the less informed are greater in numbers and have no idea of their combined power.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by Koka]

Thats part of the point if you consider allot of things in the long run...

Originally posted by Vekar
And the US has no sign of backing down either, the corporation owns america so hence we are no longer part of it unless we are corporations or supporters of. WW4 though would be every nation for itself, the nations oppressed by the corporations would sieze the moment and take control and say: "SCREW YOU!" to the corporate ambassador who comes to them demanding they help them or continue to serve them. Like I said before the US could count on NO ONE when it comes down to non corporate controled nations, GB would be there and Canada because they both are controlled by them to a great extent even if they dont know it.

So wait, the US is oppressed by the corporations? I dont feel as if I'm being oppressed, or forced to buy anything, think a certain way, talk a certain way. What exactly do you mean by that? I do what I want, dont you? Is this so called corporate control and oppression of nations theory your excuse as to why things dont go your way? It seems to me that the more I hear this type of BS the more it sounds like an excuse to start a revolution than anything remotely plausible. I do believe that corporations have control to a degree, but not to the degree with which you say they do. GB and Canada will be there because they have been long time allies with the US(along with Austrailia, Japan, NZ, SK, Israel, Poland ect.) and the reason is we all have a common interest. Not because we are controlled by corporations. Which countries are the ones not controlled by the corporations as you say it? Iran, North Korea, Syria maybe? The problem children of the world. Of course we cant count on those countries at all, so youd be right there I guess.

The US is CONTROLLED by the corporations, jeez reread it. You wont feel it if you dont think about it, also why would they force you to buy stuff? They dont have to, they juts put junk on TV then fill walmart full of it and OFF YOU GO! No motivation needed, its human nature to buy more than you need. Also in Nazi Germany, China, Iraq, SA, Russia, you bought what you wanted, you were not forced to. You could say what you wanted but like the US it ment you might get a nock on your door. In Nazi Germany they read what they wanted, ate what they wanted, and socialized when they wanted.
What the heck are you talking about MY WAY?! I am talking not about ME but about the american people as a WHOLE. Only a greedy fool would think of themselves in this world, and if your one of them then your part of the problem. Now as to control to a degree (corporations) shoot just look at how they get whatever laws they need through to snatch and run off to plot the next round, if thats not control nothing is. They do what they want, when they want, as they want and NO ONE has control over them. Why? Because they own you, they own me, they own every american thats born because we are forced to deal with them economically or by getting food, clothing, housing, car/truck, travel, etc. Now THAT is control, again if its not then nothing is.
As to whats "plausible" well so far I watch peace protesters get nowhere, I watched 2 elections flop and get stolen right in front of the american peoples noses, a govt. go to war twice once without ANY consent by popular majority, laws passed that wipe out the bill of rights, etc. etc. etc. Anytime I see someone take them to court they are up against the worlds finest lawyers and get greased on the spot or given the ringaround to keep them down and out. If you want to find ones who reject corporate control look at the top 10 enemy list of the US then you will have a good idea. Only problem is these corporate roots or tenacles go so deep that no one is unaffected by them. The ones who are TRUELY free of them are: Cuba, south american tribes that have yet to be discovered and hence they own nothing from corporations. Why Cuba? Because they are #1 the first to fight back against the corporation to that extent, 90% self reliant and only require fuel which does not come from the US due to embargo's. Hence why the US govt. hates Cuba so much, it was a revolution that worked at getting rid of the corporations.
Common interest, interesting choice of words. From a political standpoint it would be GOOD to get rid of the US if your china, russia, europe, etc. why? because then you are free of a bunch of rednecks or religious yahoo's trying to demand you follow their every order whenever they want something. Also it would allow you to go on with your life and expand your economy because now your #1 threat has been destroyed. Europe WOULD and CAN hold against Russia and China if they mobilized. China is for one too far away and would have little to no interest in them while Russia would care little, they would just want their old satellite nations back and screw the rest of Europe. South America is to far away from them as well so they would not bother with them considering the political unrest. Also spending time and resources on keeping a bigot like the US alive is not worth it. So politically the US has put itself between a rock and a hard place because now everyone is ticked off with them. Canada would only join because they need some extra flesh from the US to act as a buffer, while Mexico would need the US to stay alive in order to get its corn shipments, and also to ship out cheap cars. They are about it, Japan could bargain if they had a "self destruct" settup or a way of getting around it which they probably would. Taiwan is SCREWED if China attacked and would thus need the US around. Japan need not worry because they have very rough terrain and most combat would be in cities, street to street and thus be a bother to the Chinese, just buy what you want from them and heck with em. South Korea would be in a tizzy because NK would be marching south and olbitterating them left and right and thus would enlist US help or swear an alliance with them to stay alive a little longer. None the less the US would be so stressed out on having to defend from 2 invading armies clear across the ocean that it would collapse or have to back off and surrender the pacific or maintain a navy that can hold the line or die. No one in the right mind would INVADE the US from a foreign nation because its not worth a dime. All the factories are gone, its crops are not that great anymore, its to far away, to many rednecks and milita to bother with, so just leave em. Make your point to them that they are to stay out of their expansion and if they dont, fire a few weapons or detonate a few bombs that have bioweapons in them a few weeks later and wipe out 70% of the US population then tell them to stay the heck out again or they will finish the job. Also they would not worry AT ALL about your nuclear arsenal because you can thwart it, China has nothing to loose, its crops are to small so radation fallout does not matter, go southwest and take Cambodia and start growing food where there is more room and move your population to a degree while the rest moves to the western mountains which are a GREAT buffer for nuclear attack. Meanwhile you fire nukes BACK at the US and finish the job of making sure it wont threaten you again. Then go on your way and let the US fall appart, take out Taiwan, SK leave Japan alone, then advance on nations close to you that have fertile land.
THAT is the only reason those nations would help the US, they dont have enough troops to hold off the enemy alone. Its a tricky thing knowing your friends from your enemies, and frankly the US is very, very low on them and more still are leaving when given the chance. Also parts of your post dont make any sense so I wont comment on them. As for revolution, which kind?

Originally posted by ludaChris
So wait, the US is oppressed by the corporations? I dont feel as if I'm being oppressed, or forced to buy anything, think a certain way, talk a certain way. What exactly do you mean by that? I do what I want, dont you? Is this so called corporate control and oppression of nations theory your excuse as to why things dont go your way? It seems to me that the more I hear this type of BS the more it sounds like an excuse to start a revolution than anything remotely plausible. I do believe that corporations have control to a degree, but not to the degree with which you say they do. GB and Canada will be there because they have been long time allies with the US(along with Austrailia, Japan, NZ, SK, Israel, Poland ect.) and the reason is we all have a common interest. Not because we are controlled by corporations. Which countries are the ones not controlled by the corporations as you say it? Iran, North Korea, Syria maybe? The problem children of the world. Of course we cant count on those countries at all, so youd be right there I guess.

Pretty soon, you will only be able to record what the TV and film companies want you to. You will have DRM infested in everything you buy. Why? Because the entertainment companies pay off politicians to pass laws to help their greed.

Thats just one example of corporate greed at the expense of the public.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
I hate to be the one to point this out, but who came to help out when Nazi bombs were exploding over jolly old London? Does loyalty count for nothing in this modern age? Besides, as a resident of the UK, would you rather align with western society and freedom of thought or would you rather live in an Islamo-fascist state? Or worse, under communist rule? Better figure out who's side your on. Fence sitting will not be permitted.



Personally, I agree that Bush is a poor excuse for a leader at best, and he has done much to ruin our reputation around the globe with this mess in Iraq, but war is war, and the loss of life and liberty is very real.

[edit on 4-3-2006 by BlackOps719]

You leave out an important bit here
America was very slow to assist England and only reluctantly agreed to help if Winston allowed US air bases to be set up in the UK.
The US never did anything for anyone unless there is a vested interest for the US !

Originally posted by Vekar
The US could not trust its own people thats a fact, they would take the chance to get rid of the current govt. and do so.

Nobody in their right mind would take this govt. with it having only a few years to go the democrats especially. If his term were interrupted he would be right to claim that he is still the legal representative of the people of the United States. Even Michael More wouldn’t do something so crazy.
This might be outside the topic but I think this needs to be answered :

Also the only ones I know that say people can find good jobs all over if they are willing to work are upper middle class people who dont need the jobs. I would like them to tell "oh you can get a job if you work!!" to a poor white person or black woman who works 4 jobs and only goes home for about 4 hours out of the day and STILL cant pull it off.

This is bull. There are so many jobs today that even if you are stupid you will still get paid. You might not be able to buy the latest flat panel TV or a good car right away but you will have enough to live decently even if you work at Mc Donald’s. What is this crap about no high paying jobs?
I recently attended 4 interviews and landed all 4 jobs. Heck one job I got without even taking a resume or wearing a tie (never wore a tie to any interview for that matter!) And these aren’t some crappy ones too. All of them pay about $50000 a year.
My point is if you go to college and make yourself useful there are plenty of jobs, even if just know C & C++ you can get a job with ease. You might not get the best job out there but you will get a good job. If you have skills, college degree etc there are plenty of jobs out there. It is those people who took it easy and slacked off during high school and college who find out one fine day that they have pissed their lives away. That will always be the case in every economy, unless of course we turn commie someday!
America is the land of opportunity and every year thousands of people come from all over the world and make it big here and living in America if you still have a problem you do not appreciate the opportunity that you have.

The question should be: "Who should the American PEOPLE trust?"

I'm convinced that the greatest threat to the security and freedom of the American people comes from those in power right here.

I'm starting to believe that the most important thing that progressive-thinking Americans can do is show strong support for the rank-and-file US military. With Diebold and the redistricting of electoral districts by those already in power to stay in power, I think we've past the point where we can expect to use the electoral system to keep America free. We're already seeing elections that are surprisingly close, but always seem to be won by the more authoritarian, "central-power" type of candidate. It's coming close to the time where we have to start thinking in terms of personal risk-taking and asking ourselves to what lengths we're willing to go to stay free. I'm old enough to clearly remember the end of the Soviet Union, when Soviet soldiers in tanks refused orders to shoot their own brothers and sisters and instead turned their guns on the people in charge. It was only a matter of hours before the statues were coming down in front of KGB headquarters. We may yet see something similar right here in America. We're already seeing CIA agents - patriotic Americans - who are leaking stories of illegal secret prisons and domestic spying to the newspapers. These were situations that could have gone on indefinitely if it hadn't been for someone within the CIA leaking information at great personal risk. Many of them have been severely punished by the Bush Administration (see: Scott Ritter). It's good to know there are still patriots working in government who will stand up for this great Nation.

Vekar, if you truely think Cuba is a free nation go live there, by all means, then if they let you return, let me know how it goes. And if youve ever heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis you might know the REAL reason the US govt doesnt like Cuba so much. You are not forced to buy food from a corporate entity. My grandfather grew a lot of his own food in his garden. We ate tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, peas, corn, ect all grown by him. He still bought food from a grocery store but he grew all of the vegetables himself. You can grow vegetables indoors these days, relatively inexpensively as well. You seem to have bitten on the propoganda that there is someone keeping you down, and Ill give you a clue, it aint uncle sam. Its yourself. You spend so much time blaming others for your problems you lose sight of the fact that you and no one else has to do something about it. You study hard, work hard you will go places in this world and its not up to anyone but you. You have immense animosity towards the US, I dont understand why, but I havent experienced your experiences, maybe you could explain them one day. But you have bitten on the socialist propoganda hook, line, and sinker my friend. The way you speak of WW3 occuring leads me to believe you obviously have no clue about how the military works, not just the US, but any military in general. Its not as easy as just waltzing in and obliterating some country left and right. Face this fact, if China or Russia wanted to nuke the US, there would be no China or Russia left for them to celebrate any kind of victory in, there wont be a nuclear war. And if there is one, it wont occur on North American soil, but in Asia and the ME.

Also they would not worry AT ALL about your nuclear arsenal because you can thwart it, China has nothing to loose, its crops are to small so radation fallout does not matter

Ok Vekar....that could be the most idiotic statement that I have ever read. Your credibility just fell to 0%. Instead of writing a 14 paragraph response to your scattered, non sensical statements, I will simply choose to leave it at that. Nuff said.

First off: Yeah tell that to the people who have colledge degrees and work at McDonalds right now and the over 16 million people unemployed and 37 million who have jobs and cant cut it. This goes to show you blind yourself with pride.
As for Cuba, why move to another country thats free when this is my home? Why leave when I should do whats right and fight you to the death? WHY would I leave and let you continue your genocidal wars when I can do something to stop them?

Nuclear: The US nuclear weapons arsenal CAN be tharted, sweet mother, if you think this country is invincible because of them your a FOOL. Look at the Soviet Union, they had THOUSANDS of nuclear weapons and they were UTTERLY defeated and the weapons got thwarted by the most SIMPLE factors. Also if you DID launch them the point was if your READY for them you CAN thwart the attack. If you reread what I said in detail you will note this, I NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE said that the nuclear arsenal will NOT take some kind of toll, the comment was the toll can be THWARTED and your "enemy" will wait patiently while you burn and then go about their lives and do as they please since your out of the way. Jeez you people need to read more and stop jumping to conclusions.... if you jump to conclusions like this in the real world thats how you get WW1 and Adolf Hitler type people. OR you blow your arm off in chem. class because you jumped to the conlusion you should add chemical X not chemical Y that the teacher said to add, you assumed the teacher would meen X not Y because your so "confident" in yourself and now your missing an arm. If you cant understand that there is no point saying a word to you. Also I dont think any bu#e has any credibility AT ALL and they think the same with other people only they pretend otherwise. Its a chess game, only thing is I let the other know what I think outright and dont lie about it and still get my objective completed.
There I hope I dumbed down my speech enough you can understand me bu#ies (yes its fair to say that since you insult my intelligence). You bu#es have a huge problem: Pride, Arrogance, Overeagerness, and blindness.

Originally posted by Vekar
Nuclear: The US nuclear weapons arsenal CAN be tharted, sweet mother, if you think this country is invincible because of them your a FOOL. Look at the Soviet Union, they had THOUSANDS of nuclear weapons and they were UTTERLY defeated and the weapons got thwarted by the most SIMPLE factors. Also if you DID launch them the point was if your READY for them you CAN thwart the attack. If you reread what I said in detail you will note this, I NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE said that the nuclear arsenal will NOT take some kind of toll, the comment was the toll can be THWARTED and your "enemy" will wait patiently while you burn and then go about their lives and do as they please since your out of the way. Jeez you people need to read more and stop jumping to conclusions.... if you jump to conclusions like this in the real world thats how you get WW1 and Adolf Hitler type people. OR you blow your arm off in chem. class because you jumped to the conlusion you should add chemical X not chemical Y that the teacher said to add, you assumed the teacher would meen X not Y because your so "confident" in yourself and now your missing an arm. If you cant understand that there is no point saying a word to you. Also I dont think any bu#e has any credibility AT ALL and they think the same with other people only they pretend otherwise. Its a chess game, only thing is I let the other know what I think outright and dont lie about it and still get my objective completed.
There I hope I dumbed down my speech enough you can understand me bu#ies (yes its fair to say that since you insult my intelligence). You bu#es have a huge problem: Pride, Arrogance, Overeagerness, and blindness.

I answered your first question in a U2U.

I never said my country was invincible, but if you think other countries can nuke the US and not get fried themselves, think again. This is exactly why in my last post I stated that there will be no nuclear war, mutual fear of each ones country being wiped out. Thats what kept the world in one piece during the cold war, FEAR. Its a good thing, especially in a nuclear war scencario, it keeps everyone in check. The Soviet Union fell economically, they were simply spending too much on their military and couldnt maintain it. The rest of their economy simply suffered from excessive military spending. I just do not agree with you that anyones nuclear arsenal, especially those arsenals as large as the US and Russia have, can be thwarted to the degree where these countries could be saved, both would be ruined. I'd say my statements were pretty sound in logic, and I dont belive I jumped the gun on anything.

You tell me not to jump to conclusions yet you do the same thing to those who support President Bush. You say they all think alike, say we have no credibility, but I believe your thinking like this is what makes your credibility shrink. Not mine. Where have I lied in my posts, outright lied? I have made my opinions pretty clear in my statements. It is you who make the insults, try to downplay others logic as lesser than your own simply because I feel differently than you do. I have shown no arogance, as you put it. And am certainly not blinded by anything. You are the one who jumps to conclusions, makes assumptions and has the arrogance to place your thoughts above others becuase they belive differently than yourself. Rethink your previous statement as I have called you out on the same things you accuse others of.

Originally posted by Vekar
First off: Yeah tell that to the people who have colledge degrees and work at McDonalds right now and the over 16 million people unemployed and 37 million who have jobs and cant cut it. This goes to show you blind yourself with pride.

Why dont you tell this to the thousands of people who have become millionares in the IT industry, why dont you tell this to people who have come from a poor third world country and made millions in America through hard work and dedication ? Why dont you tell this to the hundreds of immigrants that have come here and made it big ?

What exactly do you mean by' cant cut it' ? Not everyone can buy a Porshe the first month on a job you know, do you mean they cant 'cut it' ? You work your way up, nothing is handed to you in a silver plater.
It is this defeatist attitude that ruins a nation. When the people of that nation do not have the drive, the determination to be the best that they can be is when the nation begins to decline. As you are so concerned about the nation and its supposed collapse into anarchy you arent doing anything to help the nation with an attitude like that. In fact if anything, such an escapist attitude only seeks to destroy the very nature of the American society, harm that is more dangerous than any nuclear weapon. The greatest strength of the USA is the spirit of its people, your attitude is exactly against this spirit.

WHY would I leave and let you continue your genocidal wars when I can do something to stop them?

What makes you think you can stop them, when you blame the govt for all your misfortune ? Taking over a country is much more difficult that landing a job!

Nuclear: The US nuclear weapons arsenal CAN be tharted, sweet mother, if you think this country is invincible because of them your a FOOL. Look at the Soviet Union, they had THOUSANDS of nuclear weapons and they were UTTERLY defeated and the weapons got thwarted by the most SIMPLE factors.

Tell me how exactly are you going to "thwart" 15-20 MIRV's each with a yeild of 750KT - 1MT ? Or how will you 'thwart' a battery of AGM-129 ACM's lauched off a dozen B-2's carring nuclear and biological warheads ??
The Soviet Union was not defeated militarily but defeated itself in trying to defeat the United States of America. This is not to say that they could survive a nuclear war with the United States but more that they were willing to accept the consequnces of such a war.