Chinas plans to wipe out the USA. Very Scary.

Don't all militaries everywhere run war scenarios and war plans for almost every possible option at some point?

IIRC the biggest 'war plan' the US government had pre-WW2 was all about a war with Britain.

'Plans' in themselves do not indicate anything they have to be seen in context.

The context here is quite clearly some crusty old military type, having grown up with war and occupation, seeing threats everywhere and talking about proposals for dealing with them.
No big deal.
They have them, we have them, everybody has them.

I think the only reason it seems quite common for high level officials in China to be making such statements is simply due to the culture difference. In China, there is no PC for officials to worry about, and so speak freely (to an extent), whereas in America/Western society, there is soo much PC, that if someone such as a General even made a minor statement about attacking another country, he would be facing the axe immediately.

However, I am sure there are just as many Generals within the US who have the same thoughts about China. In fact, it wasn't long ago when I read a statement from the Pentagon "highlighting the growing China threat".

I don't believe we can read to much in to this, although it may give us an idea of how the Chinese military view the US at this time.

At the end of the day, it is the politicians who decide what threats to deal with and with what method - I believe the Generals can be compared to company managers in the 21st century and can not act independantly of the companies wishes, although they can express they opinions (to a certain extent)

We should look more at what the politicians are and are not saying

Everything China is doing is to sustain its current government. The only thing we have to take into account is how far their government will go to keep itself in power. If we stop trade with them they would imploded. Most of us can live without cheap China stuff if we had too.

Originally posted by soficrow
FYI - this was debunked a couple of months ago. (Just scanned the thread - sorry if the point already was made.) ...And the Chinese Minister quoted was fired a while back, shortly after he made that speech.

More China blaming - just like the "Bird flu comes from China" accusation. It's just bs propaganda, all about identifying China as a target.

Guess some ppl missed this and are still continuing the bashing...

Again, war will not come as easily as people here think. There is too much at risk ON BOTH sides. The only reason for a chance of war between these two nations is Taiwan. China has clearly stated that it will ONLY use military force if the chance of reunification is impossible. With the hardliner President Chen's popularity rating at around 20%, the parliament's power shifted to the KMT, and Mayor Ma the clear next president of Taiwan... I hardly doubt China will need to even use the military for reunification.

I do not think this is at all likely. I'm fairly sure this guy was fired and what-not.

That said, this is exactly why the US should up it's millitary budget. Sure, we spend more then the next 25 countries or whatever... So what?

We should be funding the hell out of our millitary. We should have a fully operational multi-tiered missle defense system that should at the very least be able to succesfully intercept 70% of Russia and Chinas combined ICBM arsenal - and I would want it more in the 90-95% range. We should have such complete and overwhelming force that not only does the enemy know that they will die if they attack us, but that we will not be hurt much by them.

I wish we could just dump welfare and other such worthless "social(ist)" programs, and put that money towards our millitary.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
I wish we could just dump welfare and other such worthless "social(ist)" programs, and put that money towards our millitary.

Thats the american way

They did it in vietnam and their doing it now

what about weather control weapons? they are unstoppable as they are nature based IE typhoons , hurricanes, tidal waves, earthquakes, I'm sure the USA and most likely Russia have weather control weapons, if China attacked USA lol, USA would nuke back, chemical attack back, and weather control back hmmm not much of China left after all that is there.

Nukes
Chemicals
BIO
Tidal waves
Earthquakes
Hurricanes

lol BYE BYE China.

Let alone any high top secret weapons and add lasers to the conflict lol China probably sink into the sea.

[edit on 23-2-2006 by blobby]

Originally posted by T0by
Lets talk about biological weapons instead which was mentioned in the speech. So this speech actually happened did it? Seems so according to other members here.

Anyway, the possibility of race specific weapons is very real. We don't even know how far china has gotten with this anyway.

I would agree in theory these weapons might work. Russia was known to be very advanced with bioweapons much more so then the US and there was some mention of weapons that have certian gene triggers. It would have to work on some common DNA marker (i.e. all humans with brown eyes) for example.

I dont really know how much value these weapons would have they wouldnt be close to 100% as there is alot of variation in the races and theres always the chance it could mutate out of control and target people you didnt indeed. But also any such attack could easily spark a global nuclear war once someone figured out it was a bio weapon attack.

Originally posted by beaburt
It worked so far for China because China had its own oil. As the Chinese economy keeps growing, the situation will change dramatically: China has already become a net importer of oil, and the price of oil has been increasing.

It will affect the Chinese economy far less than most others considering their trade balance in terms of dollars. While western governments let's China keep it's currency under such profitable control it will take quite the global event to stop Chinese growth.

This will create pressure on an economy that basically specializes in cheap goods.

Cheap goods? Well the funny thing about that is how almost anything is cheap goods in China does negating that criticism entirely. Why will the Chinese growth be affected more than American growth for instance considering the favourable currency control China is managing?

At the same time, the huge USA trade deficit that has been supporting Chinese growth is putting pressure on the Chinese currency, which is kept artificially low by the Chinese government.

Well they are allowed to keep it low as they are providing all those consumer goods the west needs for "growth".

Eventually, the Chinese currency will have to fluctuate and the oil factor will become relevant.

And why on earth will the Chinese change their currency regulations when it does not suit them to? Who's got the economic and military power to force them ?

Those two factors will push up the cost of manufacturing in China, thus making China a lot less competitive.

Chinese labour is not all that productive to start with and yet they still manage to flood the world markets so one really has to wonder how a little currency fluctuation ( if anyone can convince the Chinese government it's in their best interest) is going to stop Chinese growth.

Domestic politics. The Chinese economic miracle is mainly the economic miracle of a few eastern metropoles. There has been little tangible benefit for the rest of China, which in fact is living in horrible conditions (high pollution, inadequate health care, massive displacement of people to harness energy, rising unemployment).

Actually there has not been such wealth creation since the Japanese after the second world war last i checked. The overwhelming majoirty of Chinese are in fact sharing the benefits of this economic policy and they will do so more and more as manufacturing jobs go to China. Rising unemployment? If you want to see one sided economic growth go look at India or Indonesia or the USA or most of the third world. You picked the worse example of them all.

These were precisely the conditions of Qing China that led to Sun Yatsen's revolution one century ago.

While Chinese people are not doing much worse( or better) than they used to do there wont be any great and faster change while the Chinese still have a army and are willing to execute a few dozen rebels a year. While the business power of the west does nothing to expose Chinese manipulation of trade and human rights there wont be much revolution imo.

Stellar

Originally posted by duncanidaho
China is going to implode economically. It has already started. The peasant farmers will take China down. That's the plan man! Food will keep them in check. That is our weapon. We are just giving them a long rope they will hang themselves with. Communism will fail it always does.

The peasent farmers have not managed it before so why now that the country is finally growing wealthy fast and sustainably so? While their willing to pay someone will sell them food and that is the principle they are working on one assumes. So sending all western manufacturing jobs to China is giving them rope to hang themself? Having such lopsided trade is going to bring down communism? Well i guess we are all allowed to dream.

Stellar

A quick scan of this thread does not produce the word ´Oil´.

There. Now it does.

This is the only reason I can find why the U.S. and China would become serious enemies in the near future.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
WyrdeOne, China even now cant grow enough food domestically to feed its people, you think after a full scale nuclear war has contaminated its agricultural and industrial sector they will be able to start indoor farms as if nothing happened?

Can't or feels no pressing need? Full scall nuclear war has not been proven to be anywhere near as bad as some would have you believe and if Russia can fill thousands of silo's with tens of millions of tons of grain i suppose the same might be true for China once one starts digging for the info.

What about the majority of Chinas population that live in rural undeveloped areas? How are they going to filter the air, water, and food?

There are simple methods to do all that that you can teach any person with half ( or less) a mind.

Lets be realistic here, the radioactive material released in a such an attack would kill whoever survived the initial blast.

No, there really is no evidence to suggest such a thing. If you have a safe food store for a few weeks you can ride out the worse nuclear effects.

A few people will survive, yes, but not in any significant majority to make a difference, the country would be destroyed and in ruins.

Total conjecture based on nothing that can be remotely related to known facts.

Look at this map of cesium soil radiation spread by just Chernobyl, not to mention that a radioactive cloud from Chernobyl reached all the way to the US.

Yeah and the nuclear effects killed less than a hundred ( same say a few dozen)

The information is all on the internet had you cared to investigate.

Stellar

Could the US win an all out war with China? Yes, probably because the fact is we can and would deliver nuke strikes in the major areas. China would of course, attempt to counter those strikes. However, let us hope that the leaders of both countries realize that such a war would result in huge losses not only in our two countries but world wide I refering of course, to fallout carried by wind currents. Seagull is right the old guard remembers war differently then it would actually be carried out and the new young up and comers know how to push without pushing too far. I believe however that Iran having nukes is the greater threat at this time because they are more likely to use them in pursuit of their states religious goals. Once again this is all merely my opinion.

China may want to, doesn't everyone?

It is pretty hard when you are on top, luckily the countries that really want us out can't get along.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend until one enemy is left.

Full scall nuclear war has not been proven to be anywhere near as bad as some would have you believe

Err, full scale nuclear war hasn't proven to be anything, since there's never been one...

While I don't believe even a full scale nuclear conflict would be sufficient to cause the exctinction of the species (not directly anyway), I'm also not sure the world that resulted, silos of a few weeks' worth of grain notwithstanding, would be much fun to "survive" in.

[edit on 2/24/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex
Err, full scale nuclear war hasn't proven to be anything, since there's never been one...

Oh so i just imagined that nuclear war? Thanks for setting me strait.

While I don't believe even a full scale nuclear conflict would be sufficient to cause the exctinction of the species (not directly anyway),

Well imo nuclear weapons have long ago been replaced with newer and far deadlier weapons that might very well manage all the destruction that uninformed people still think nuclear weapons can do.

I'm also not sure the world that resulted, silos of a few weeks' worth of grain notwithstanding, would be much fun to "survive" in.

The Stockpiling of Food During an Alleged “Famine”. In 1997 “Ambasssador Richard Star, a top Reagan administration arms control expert, writing in the Wall Street Journal, said that Russia hadstockpiled some 362 million metric tons of wheat. (One economist calculated this was enough to feed
the entire population of the former Soviet Union for three years.)”

Now i personally think that if the Russians could manage that in the 90's, with all the "chaos" in their economy ( or was it) , one has to wonder what a state with as rigid economic control as those in China could manage.

Stellar

"It was rather more of a shock to him when he discovered from some chance remark that she did not remember that Oceania, four years ago, had been at war with Eastasia and at peace with Eurasia. It was true that she regarded the whole war as a sham : but apparently she had not even noticed that the name of the enemy had changed. " I thought we'd always been at war with Eurasia ", she said vaguely. It frightened him a little."
-George Orwell



It really is an endless cycle isn't it, except now we openly use words like pre-emptive nuclear, and biological attack. Always somebody somewhere needs killin. Man for all his achievement has made so little progress. Here we are in the midst of one war and already discussing the next, Orwell wasn't a novelist, the man was a prophet lol.

Great stuff Twitchy.

Still blows me away that people think nations still mean something - like, it's not the corporations playing Monopoly.

Originally posted by duncanidaho
Most of us can live without cheap China stuff if we had too.

I believe this is where you are wrong. The US has grown dependent. Most Americans would go hungry and unclothed without Walmart (chinamart).

The "war" will not come immediately in the form of military invasion.

Watch first for rural land purchases by chinese nationals posing as US citizens.

Then watch as china stops buying US T-bills and in the course of 30 days dumps those they are holding.

Then as the US economy staggers from a direct blow on the chin: Embargo, financed by the sale of treasury bills. Sorry... no more apple juice at
Walmart. Dependency is a bitch.

Keep an eye on water privatization and water rights falling into chinese hands. Chinese owned water may be the avenue of bio-attack.

China has been empire building for millenia before the US was even a glimmer in the western eye.

Sri Oracle

China needs USA to trade vitally, and USA needs China as a major manufacturer for its goods just as importantly, there won't be a war between the two for a very long time.

Even if there is a plan like this cheers mate, im a patriotic chinese