Chinas plans to wipe out the USA. Very Scary.

Do tell how China would destroy India. Last I checked population wise India is not so far behind China. Also India has their own nuke program and they are pretty well armed with a decent military.

How advance are China's nuclear delivery systems that you think they can avoid US ABM, but US missiles would not get past China's old Soviet stuff?

As we have witnessed in the world, Soviet Era Military equipment was vastly overrated.

As for the US ABM systems, do you recall that the Navy recently was able to shoot down a multistage missile at sea? That the AF has been able to do so for a number of years now? That we are advancing in our Laser Weapons Research to a point where we will be able to employ lasers on aircraft such as a 747 or a C-130 that can be used to shoot down missiles?

Also just how will China get their people to the US? I think that the US Navy is far more of a match for China's Navy. Also you have to consider the logistics of even getting a large Army from China to the US. Plus the equipment they would need, food for the journey, rifles and bullets for their troops, ammo for all their armor and other units. Plus lets not forget that the US has quite a few people here who own weapons, are ex military such as myself, hunters, etc...who know this area and know how to defend it.

Any nuke attack by China is far less likely to succed against the US then a nuke strike by the US against China.

But bottom line is simply this, NO NUCLEAR WAR is going to happen between the US and China.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Whoever said the US was invincible to nukes? I would like to see who said that

[edit on 7-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

People definately talk like the U.S. are invincible to nukes. They talk of easily using nuclear weapons against China for the most idiotic reasons a if the U.S. would not lose millions of it's own people in doing so.

I've been hearing so much statements such as "Oh, China doesn't pose a threat, we'll just nuke em if they try anything." WHILE COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that the U.S. would be obliterated alongside.

Shadow, maybe your not the type of person that thinks lke that, but you cannot deny that there are plenty of them lurking around this forum.


[edit on 7-3-2006 by k4rupt]

Well people that think that are ill informed a nuclear war between any nuclear armed powers would result in the deaths of millions on boths sides.

China or the UK dont have the MAD power of say russia but they could turn even the largest countries into a third world mess over night. 100-200 of your largest cities gone. Thats not going to kill everyone in a large country but whats left would likely make the worst parts of Africa look good by comparison. But that attack would be at the cost of their own destruction and its not really worth it then.





[edit on 8-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by Omniscient
I would beg to differ; I believe the US' admitted stock of nuclear warheads exceeds 10,000, and this is assuming and they are being 100% honest in how many warheads they own; I'd expect the real number to be much higher.

Do you have any specific reason for assuming that nuclear weapons are still the weapons of choice for strategic blackmail? I believe almost any country could hide their true number of nuclear weapons ( and whatever else they wanted to) given a clear intent to do so.

Ahem, so what are the weapons of choice for strategic blackmail ? You allude to these other weapons in several threads - what are they ?

Spit it out, or are you just using more throw away comments ?

Contrary to your claim the US does still deploy nuclear warheads on cruise missiles and even gravity bombs.

Erm never said there weren't any nuclear gravity bombs Do you read the posts properly before you go on an uninformed rant ?

As for cruise missiles the AGM-129 ACM is nuclear armed with the W-80 warhead from the Tomahawk cruise missile. The ACM is expected to fly to it's target undetected by the latest Chinese or Russian radar. Whihc is interesting as this could be seen as the only nuclear weapon with a true ' surprise ' attack capability.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by rogue1]

I think people are way off the mark here. China is not going to attack us, because they desperately need our cheap soybeans. Yeah, as dumb a reason as that.

What China will need very soon, however, is much more oil and gas. And the nearest place to get that is in the Russian oil fields to the north. So there you go.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Are you kidding you dont think thousands of nuclear weapons most of which are in the 100-300kT range (Hiroshima was about 12-15kt) couldn't wipe out 3/4 of Chinas a population.

No i do not believe it will for the reason i have so far stated. There is simply too many targets in China and not enough warheads in the US arsenal. The US could not fire many if any of it's strategic weapons as they allready have far too few to take a chance on what Russia might do. If they fire their SLBM's it's much the same story.

The radiation fall out alone of the US arsenal would kill very large portions of Chinas population.

Radiation is nowhere near as dangerous to people who are even moderately prepared for it.

Your talking thousands of square miles of lethal fallout not even counting additional deaths from fires,starvation, lack of medical attention etc..

9,596,960 sq km is what they have and considering the terrain in general it's not the worse country to be in after a nuclear exchange.

What fires? Will there be starvation everywher? Is their medical system in the in their remote regions of such a standard that there is much to be missed? Your speculating for reason of your own and i really do suggest you get some numbers to work with before try to defend your guess work.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX
No i do not believe it will for the reason i have so far stated. There is simply too many targets in China and not enough warheads in the US arsenal. The US could not fire many if any of it's strategic weapons as they allready have far too few to take a chance on what Russia might do. If they fire their SLBM's it's much the same story.

Hmm, so you automatically assume that Russia will attack the US because they have used a portion of their missiles on China. Seems like incredibly paranoid thinking. The US would hvae more than enough warheads to hit the necessary targets in China and more than enough to deter Russia.

Radiation is nowhere near as dangerous to people who are even moderately prepared for it.

So you're saying the Chinese are preapred for it. Nothing indicates to me when I've been in China that they are preapring for nuclear attack.

9,596,960 sq km is what they have and considering the terrain in general it's not the worse country to be in after a nuclear exchange.

Destroy the cities and China ceases to exist as a viable country.

Will there be starvation everywher? Is their medical system in the in their remote regions of such a standard that there is much to be missed? Your speculating for reason of your own and i really do suggest you get some numbers to work with before try to defend your guess work.

I suggest you read up on how much food China imports every year - they are far from sustainable in food production.

Originally posted by rogue1
Ahem, so what are the weapons of choice for strategic blackmail ? You allude to these other weapons in several threads - what are they ?
Spit it out, or are you just using more throw away comments ?

Stop trying to hijack the thread for lack of anything better to do. I have my own opinions but they are not pertinent to this debate. Russia hardly needs anything more than what they have in terms of nuclear weapons so why keep mentioning my earlier comment? Is this the best you can do ?

Erm never said there weren't any nuclear gravity bombs

Do you read the posts properly before you go on an uninformed rant ?

You said exactly that earlier but since you never admit any wrongs you will just do the denial act again. I am probably not as well informed as i want to be but whatever my ignorance on the topic it's nowhere near as complete as yours. If you have nothing to add but insult and blanket denials over your earlier please go bother someone else.

As for cruise missiles the AGM-129 ACM is nuclear armed with the W-80 warhead from the Tomahawk cruise missile. The ACM is expected to fly to it's target undetected by the latest Chinese or Russian radar.

Typical nonsense that you want to believe depiste all the evidence telling you it just is not so.

Whihc is interesting as this could be seen as the only nuclear weapon with a true ' surprise ' attack capability.

Yawn

You have such little idea of what is going on yet you keep making your blanket denials and claims. You forget FOBS i guess? They really never had a idea how many the SU put into orbit or how many might still be left up there.

Stellar

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Well people that think that are ill informed a nuclear war between any nuclear armed powers would result in the deaths of millions on boths sides.

Yes, it would kill dozens or even hundreds of millions.

China or the UK dont have the MAD power of say russia but they could turn even the largest countries into a third world mess over night. 100-200 of your largest cities gone. Thats not going to kill everyone in a large country but whats left would likely make the worst parts of Africa look good by comparison.

You do not use single warheads on cities as they are not THAT reliable.

But that attack would be at the cost of their own destruction and its not really worth it then.

Well nuclear war are always going to involve serious casualties whatever preparations one might have in place.

Stellar





[edit on 8-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by rogue1
Ahem, so what are the weapons of choice for strategic blackmail ? You allude to these other weapons in several threads - what are they ?
Spit it out, or are you just using more throw away comments ?

Stop trying to hijack the thread for lack of anything better to do. I have my own opinions but they are not pertinent to this debate. Russia hardly needs anything more than what they have in terms of nuclear weapons so why keep mentioning my earlier comment? Is this the best you can do ?

//sigh// - You're the one who keeps on interjecting these vague notions of some Russian super weapon. If you don't want to be pulled up on it, stop alluding to them all the time Simple as that.
Just clarify what you mean by ' other ' weapons more powerful than nukes ? That's all simple question.

Erm never said there weren't any nuclear gravity bombs

Do you read the posts properly before you go on an uninformed rant ?

You said exactly that earlier but since you never admit any wrongs you will just do the denial act again. I am probably not as well informed as i want to be but whatever my ignorance on the topic it's nowhere near as complete as yours.

I said there were no nuclear arm,ed cruise missiles, I neglected the AGM-129 stealth cruise missile. I never mentioned gravity bombs

As for cruise missiles the AGM-129 ACM is nuclear armed with the W-80 warhead from the Tomahawk cruise missile. The ACM is expected to fly to it's target undetected by the latest Chinese or Russian radar.

Typical nonsense that you want to believe depiste all the evidence telling you it just is not so.

Ahem and what eveidence is that, your raving denial You hvae presented no evidence and their is no evidence that I have seen. Almost every claim about teh AGM-129 says it is highly stealthy, combine that with nap of the earth flying and it's LIDAR guidance and yes, it is undectable. Show me somewhere that it is detectable - back up your ranting.

You have such little idea of what is going on yet you keep making your blanket denials and claims. You forget FOBS i guess? They really never had a idea how many the SU put into orbit or how many might still be left up there.

Christ, you're a raving madman. So where are these super secret Soviet intelligence reports you are privvy to ? Care to post some of them.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by rogue1]

Originally posted by rogue1
Hmm, so you automatically assume that Russia will attack the US because they have used a portion of their missiles on China. Seems like incredibly paranoid thinking.

It's not a automatic assumption but it will tip the strategic balance in further into Russias favor thus giving them even more power to blackmail America.

The US would hvae more than enough warheads to hit the necessary targets in China and more than enough to deter Russia.

Well that depends entirely what you imagine the word 'detter' means. Since Russia seems to be getting everything they want right now there would be very little reason for them to nuke the USA full well knowing that their killing the golden goose. They will keep taking the eggs and a war between China and the US will be in their favour.

So you're saying the Chinese are preapred for it. Nothing indicates to me when I've been in China that they are preapring for nuclear attack.

No i am not saying China is prepared for it and in terms of what has been done in Russia, Switzerland and North Korea.

Destroy the cities and China ceases to exist as a viable country.

As viable a country as the USA will be.

I suggest you read up on how much food China imports every year - they are far from sustainable in food production.

Well do they need that food to feed their people or are they storing it? Do you know or have you just chosen to believe that China can not feed itself? The Russians said the same thing and got billions worth of 'food credits" ( which they probably spent on nuclear weapons) even if they had bumper crops that could feed everyone in their country. Does that make sense to you? Are they just letting their food rot or are they trucking it to all those bunkers they have?

Stellar

Can't someone deal with the problem of what will China do for food if they attack the US? (Their principal supplier).

Originally posted by rogue1


Hmm, so you automatically assume that Russia will attack the US because they have used a portion of their missiles on China. Seems like incredibly paranoid thinking. The US would hvae more than enough warheads to hit the necessary targets in China and more than enough to deter Russia.

Hm... assuming there would even be a nuclear war is inredibly paranoid thinking... don't you think?

So you're saying the Chinese are preapred for it. Nothing indicates to me when I've been in China that they are preapring for nuclear attack.

Just because you've been in China, doesn't mean you know how prepared they are for a nuclear attack.

Destroy the cities and China ceases to exist as a viable country.

Um.. Are you serious? If the U.S. destroys the Chinese cities, then 200-250 of the largest American cities would be destroyed as well... The U.S. would cease to exist also... Did I spoil your fun there?

do not think for a second that China does not have the technology to wage a war with the U.S. The reason we mess with Iran is cause we can becaues there technology is no where near where the U.S. sits at this moment.The U.S. has bomb many countries but never a country that could bomb back.The best air force in the world is nothing with no aircraft carriers.....what people have to realize is their is only 7 so calleed rouge nations left...lets start with the weaker first till its down to one and then all gang up......heheheheheheheheheheheheheh

Originally posted by KLSyesca
do not think for a second that China does not have the technology to wage a war with the U.S. The reason we mess with Iran is cause we can becaues there technology is no where near where the U.S. sits at this moment.The U.S. has bomb many countries but never a country that could bomb back.The best air force in the world is nothing with no aircraft carriers.....what people have to realize is their is only 7 so calleed rouge nations left...lets start with the weaker first till its down to one and then all gang up......heheheheheheheheheheheheheh

Dude, what? Air Craft Carriers have nothing to do with the Air Force. Its called Naval Aviation. The Army also has an aviation wing. What makes you think that China's Air Force could hang with the likes of the US Navy and Air Force? Any proof or good reason you make this claim? If so I'd very much like to read it.

Originally posted by k4rupt

Originally posted by rogue1


Hmm, so you automatically assume that Russia will attack the US because they have used a portion of their missiles on China. Seems like incredibly paranoid thinking. The US would hvae more than enough warheads to hit the necessary targets in China and more than enough to deter Russia.

Hm... assuming there would even be a nuclear war is inredibly paranoid thinking... don't you think?

So you're saying the Chinese are preapred for it. Nothing indicates to me when I've been in China that they are preapring for nuclear attack.

Just because you've been in China, doesn't mean you know how prepared they are for a nuclear attack.

Destroy the cities and China ceases to exist as a viable country.

Um.. Are you serious? If the U.S. destroys the Chinese cities, then 200-250 of the largest American cities would be destroyed as well... The U.S. would cease to exist also... Did I spoil your fun there?

China has only 30 missile capable of reaching the US...they would never wage a Nuclear War.

Originally posted by k4rupt

Originally posted by rogue1
Hmm, so you automatically assume that Russia will attack the US because they have used a portion of their missiles on China. Seems like incredibly paranoid thinking. The US would hvae more than enough warheads to hit the necessary targets in China and more than enough to deter Russia.

Hm... assuming there would even be a nuclear war is inredibly paranoid thinking... don't you think?

Oh so, Russia would enter the fight and take massive damage as well because of some percived opportunity ? Come on, lets at least be realistic.

So you're saying the Chinese are preapred for it. Nothing indicates to me when I've been in China that they are preapring for nuclear attack.

Just because you've been in China, doesn't mean you know how prepared they are for a nuclear attack.

Erm, lets see no civil defence drills etc. I doubt they are that prepared. Why don't you tell me what preparations they ar making. Come on you're making the assumption.

Destroy the cities and China ceases to exist as a viable country.

Um.. Are you serious? If the U.S. destroys the Chinese cities, then 200-250 of the largest American cities would be destroyed as well... The U.S. would cease to exist also... Did I spoil your fun there?

Ahem destroy them how ? The Chinese only have a hand full of ballistic missiles cpaable of reaching the US. Check your facts before making blatantly wrong statements.

www.gwu.edu...

[edit on 9-3-2006 by rogue1]

Originally posted by rogue1
//sigh// - You're the one who keeps on interjecting these vague notions of some Russian super weapon. If you don't want to be pulled up on it, stop alluding to them all the time

Simple as that.

I NEVER suggested that they NEED them to win the war i suggest DID i? Stop setting up all those strawmen please!

Just clarify what you mean by ' other ' weapons more powerful than nukes ? That's all simple question.

I do not have to as their not pertinent to this discussion. Why are you trying to include them when they are not required under my scenario for the USSR to probably win?

I said there were no nuclear arm,ed cruise missiles, I neglected the AGM-129 stealth cruise missile. I never mentioned gravity bombs

Neglected? Is that your way of admitting your wrong and will you in similar manner admit to not "mentioning' the other ALCM's in service with B-52's? If you can not even read these things from your own sources why bother with attacking mine?

Ahem and what eveidence is that, your raving denial

You hvae presented no evidence and their is no evidence that I have seen. Almost every claim about teh AGM-129 says it is highly stealthy, combine that with nap of the earth flying and it's LIDAR guidance and yes, it is undectable. Show me somewhere that it is detectable - back up your ranting.

Which means exactly what in your opinion? Does this mean that it will just be able to fly past soviet air defense missiles complexes with total disregard? Since claims are what we are dealing with we just wont know for sure but the Russians sure keep telling us their missiles can do the job.

[quote]Christ, you're a raving madman. So where are these super secret Soviet intelligence reports you are privvy to ? Care to post some of them.


Do you know what FOBS is and do you know how many were deployed? Well you don't and neither does most anyone in the US defense establishment. Those 100 odd Soviet space launches per year where just rocket engine tests yes.

Stellar

Rogue1 its barely worth bothering with StellarX

He has this fantasy that Russia is going to win a Nuclear war with the US with some super secert weapon and theres is no convincing him other wise.

I have to say it would be amusing to hear what this super weapon is though so please enlighten us all StellarX

Dont give us its not relevant to this scenario bunk either, because its relevant to the other dozens of post you make about how bad the US is going to lose in your fantasy nuclear war.

Unless this Russian super weapon you are some how privy too is just more hot air of yours








[edit on 9-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by rogue1
[
Oh so, Russia would enter the fight and take massive damage as well because of some percived opportunity ? Come on, lets at least be realistic.

What are you saying? I never said that Russia would enter the fight... I responded by saying that thinking a nuclear war would occur is paranoid thinking... Please reroad what I posted.

Erm, lets see no civil defence drills etc. I doubt they are that prepared. Why don't you tell me what preparations they ar making. Come on you're making the assumption.

erm... okay you've been to China a few times and now you KNOW for a fact that they have no civil defence drills or preparations? Come on, I think you're making the assumptions here. I see no civil defence drills int he U.S., I see nothing that remotely shows WE are prepared for a nuclear strike.

Ahem

destroy them how ? The Chinese only have a hand full of ballistic missiles cpaable of reaching the US. Check your facts before making blatantly wrong statements.

www.gwu.edu...

OKay... Even if a hand full of ballistic missiles reach the U.S., don't tell me it would be all sunshine... Let's see, lets just say 5 cities get hit. Washington, NY, SF, Detroit, LA... Don't tell me that would NOT be catastrophic. Please check your COMMON SENSE before making arrogant statements.