Questioning about God's existence.

Originally posted by GrowingConspiracy
the simple answer is this - thou shal not question or test thy God... its one of the commandments or other type of rule in the bible incase youve never heard about it. your questioning God right now so hes not gonna give you an answer, right away anyhow.

You have piqued my curiosity. Could you find that rule and post it. I somehow missed it, but then I only read the KJAV, NIV, and Good News bibles. It sounds plausible that it is in there, since the commandments do say not to worship any other Gods before him, nor to make any graven images of him, and it also says he is a jealous God.
If I was to ignore my personal belief, which is that no such thing is ever likely to happen, if it was proven that God was not real, I would probably say something like, 'How about that?', and then go on with my life exactly the same as before.
One poster wrote that he would prepare for anarchy, but I don't think that would happen. That seems to assume that the fear of God is all that keeps the faithful from committing evil acts. I have always admired Isaac Asimov, and he was an atheist who tried to be kind and nice to folks for more practical reasons than a post mortem reward.

lets take the hypothetical that 'god was disproven'.

people would still believe. it doesn't matter if god's disproven by someone else, they won't listen to you. they would carry on believing. because when anything comes up about the bible, god, jesus being resurected (yeah you're having a laugh), it's mere water of a duck's back.

as for a good number of posts on this thread, who totally avoided the 'ACTUAL' question, shame on you. it's a hypothetical 'IF' god were disproven, and you went on about the fact that god is in everyone of us, we're god, and so on. you couldn't even for one second take on board the hypothetical situation of god being disproven, let alone that actually happening.

as for Epicurus, i think that has everything to do with this topic. he took god and looked at him in the most logical way possible. and by looking at god in a logical way...you come to the conclusion that it's very unlikely that there is a god. does that mean only dumb people love god, and are loved back? not at all. but they're unwillingly to take the chance or think for one second that god may not be real.

god can be disproven, but he can't be disproven to all the individuals that believe in a god, because they wouldn't listen. they'd say, no you're wrong, you're doing satan's work, and so on.

Just want to say this is a very good thread, even believers have to answer this one because it hypothetical so they can't hide behind their book.

Personnally it would make no difference to me at all, because I'm agnostic - but I would prepare for anarchy.

What would be interesting is the reactions of muslim fanatics and the like...

Thanks.

Rock Lobster,

No, wasn't directed at anyone individual. It was more or less a general statement to try and stop people from saying "Oh, but I know for a fact he exist's so I don't have to answer the question!". The whole avoidance come's from the brainwashing techniques employed by religous teachings. Thou shalt not question thy god. There's a fear in god, not a love. If I question or do bad I goto hell. If I don't question and I do good, I goto heaven. So really, who in they're right mind would question god?

In the link in my sig I go on to discuss how the evolution of religion started with shamans, then moved onto the temple worshipping polytheistic greek's, then moved onto the monotheism of today, and as we can see, religion is now moving onto become space borne. Each successive change's in religous belief also coincide's with each successive change in what societies have discovered for their time period. All the mystical element's of each religion still exist, they're just retold different way's. For instance, scarficing to apease the shamanistic god's is still evident withing monotheism of today, but rather then the sensless death's of many people, monotheism place's that sacrifice in one individual.

But let's say god can manifest his power for evolution, that's still the need for a god to initiate evolution, not by chance. Assuming however that god did allow for evolution by chance, that right there is an evolution in the belief structure of religion along with the discoveries and changes in society. The bible doesn't teach that god allowed evolution by chance, it teach's that he and he alone cause all of creation, including man. So even today we see religous belief's evolving.

I got into an argument last night with my wife. I was trying to explain to her that religion is an unecessary evil these day's. Her argument that it was needed. Her belief is that there is no god, but people still need that belief out of fear of death and the unknown. My argument was, no, all the key point's of religion are now answerable. We have many model's of how a universe can be born by chance alone, without a divine creator. Evolution, though still called a theory, is really a fact of life, but out of political correctness and respect for religous beliefs, we'll call it a theory. Death and the so called reported tunnel of light are also no explainable, even how one comes to think they heard the voice of god is now well understood. So given that, my belief is that people just need to grow up. Religion is now a harmfull belief as it forces people to remain ignorant of reality. And the only thing perpeptuating it's silliness is fear of one's own mortality.

Originally posted by Produkt
This was the question.

Hypothetically, say it was somehow proven without a doubt, that no religions god exists. Never has never will. What would you do? What would be your response? Would your life be over after learning this ugly truth?

So, if you believe in god, rather then posting about how god is real or the greatness of god etc etc etc, just answer the question as best you can. Please remain on topic.

But the question became VOID when It questioned GODS exsistence, do you know what It Is to know beyond doubt, how can the Tree exist once but be questioned of It's very existence the next. Gods knocking, knock knocking on the door, let him In, close your eyes and open your ears and you shall see him.

No question doubting GOD's existence should ever be entertained.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by One_Love_One_GOD]

Which just brings me to my whole point. The religous devout are taught not to question. This is my whole reasoning as to why religion is unecessary, because those who did question LEARNED. To follow religous belief's is to remain ignorant of reality. Monotheism used the tactic of questioning the polythestic god's coupled with scare tactics and magic tricks. In order to ensure these same tactics weren't employed against monotheism, they developed into their teaching's that one should never question god, else you piss him off and goto hell. One should always remain an unquestioning blind faith believer in order to live eternally in heaven. From these teaching's your not loving god, your fearing god. You won't dare question out of fear of going to an eternal hell.

Originally posted by One_Love_One_GOD
No question doubting GOD's existence should ever be entertained.

Why? I don't think there should be any question that should not be entertained. I doubted the existence of god.. my doubts were confirmed, it was a very difficult transition yet I became a better person through it. I discovered that what truly matters is us and the here and now. I began to see how much we take for granted the beauty of all existence, and I also began to see how much we abuse and treat that gift with contempt in honour of mythology. Believing is fine so long as it's based on compassion- there is no 'god' worthy enough to destroy ourselves over.

As far as I can see this comes down to the point:
What is GOD?
Who is GOD?
How will the absence of GOD affect our lives?

It all comes down to your personal viewpoint. I personally do not believe in any GOD or any form of creator, so this IS the state of affairs for me, and I lead my life like a normal human being.

Personal Belief is entirely subjective:

Faith is the belief in something that cannot be proven... so it is impossible to persuade anyone as to the existance either way. I have faith in my believes (that there is no GOD) just the same as a muslim, christian, buddhist, Jew or any other religion you care to name.
No piece of evidence will change these views as it is not a belief based on evidence.

All you can do is respect what other people believe and try to live your life in the best way you can.


Thanks
Dan

I have to disagree in a way. God can be disproven through the evolution of religion. The whole notion of a god is one based upon human invention. And the evidence for a natural cause for the universe is extremly strong, though all the mechanics behind it aren't fully understood as of yet. So in a way, it's just faith based upon ignorance.

"Oh, but I know for a fact he exist's so I don't have to answer the question!". The whole avoidance come's from the brainwashing techniques employed by religous teachings. Thou shalt not question thy god. There's a fear in god, not a love. If I question or do bad I goto hell. If I don't question and I do good, I goto heaven. So really, who in they're right mind would question god?

Just because folk think the question is flawed doesn't mean we fear God above love. It is so easy for atheist to justify their beliefs and criticize the believer only to say we are brainwashed...the brainwashing goes both ways. Your faith is strong in non-existence theory just as my faith is strong in Christ Jesus...your theory came from somewhere just as ours came from somewhere (GOD). Do you fear the outcome of your choice to be God-less? I bet not, so why should a believer fear their choices--repentance is all that is required for a Christian to be "saved".

The question is a challenge for me as a believer but my faith has been tested countless times, and sometimes I've found myself wondering if there were a God--evolution, aliens, and all that crap. Each time, I found peace in the words of Christ Jesus. Even when I didn't know if I believed I still thought Jesus was dope (turn the other cheek...judge not less ye be judged...he that is without sin cast the first stone....love they neighbor as thyself...dope). So if there were proof that God never was or that Jesus wasn't the Christ I would still find the hope that fuels my life in the words of Jesus. I could've easily went the other way--the God-less road--but you can't give in to the devil. It's prolly why many folk are reluctant to play along with your lil experiment to prove we are all washed and will kill ourselves if God didn't exist. Maybe you are brainwashed by the devil. That is why you just avoid the fact that most all religions teach that suicide is a no-no...we're all going to jump off a cliff and run amuck if God aint real...fo sho! Straight lose it and go crazy--people will be rioting in the streetz--GIVE ME MY GOD BACK!! I CAN'T COPE!!

mmhmm....

Edit: added the relevant quote

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Saphronia]

Produkt:

I agree with yout interpreation BUT

Its not based on ignorance... Faith is a belief with no evidence... You dont need evidence for it, and no amount of evidence you bring forward will shake that belief. I notice you are very passionate about this and have followed your posts closely, and largely agree with you:

Though you seem to be on a mission to change peoples minds... You will never do this. All you can do is post your belief and let other people approach it and see how it fits with them.

Dan

First of all let get this straight, GOD has no place In religion, GOD sets no place and time for you to speak with him, there Is no set rule In love, express It freely and as you wish. Say whats In your heart.

Secondly I am not In any way stating that questioning GOD's existence from an Athiest point view Is wrong, how else do you find the facts, how else will you learn. After all I found GOD, I wasn't told that he either existed or didn't. To say to me that GOD may one day be prooved non existent Is to say to me I was never born, I never had my first kiss, I never made love, and Ive never sat with the sunset. You see we all question what we are not certain about, but that ends when tha answers become clear.

We learn, we teach, we laugh, we cry, we get angry, but we learn from are mistakes and In the end we know where were going because as a human being life Is full of suprises, but you always come to a point where you know what sits right In you view, the building blocks of your heart, there are blocks that are unstable but there are ones that are set In stone, that will go to your grave with you.

Don't question the very thing that makes you human, the ability to overlook knoledge and seek wisdom, because to know what Is true without doubt Is hard to find, and to the man three steps behind will look on puzzled and say to him, how do stand so tall when there Is nothing under your feet, and to that man I say, don't you see, close your eyes and open your ears, and you will know.

bigdanprice,

I still call it ignorance. Of course there's no evidence for god, but the belief of a god creating everything is still to maintane ignorance of the evidence against it. There are many model's showing how the universe(s) and life can occur naturally per chance. There's experimental and observational evidence for these model's as well. Our whole foundation of physics and technology based upon our physics is what allowed for us to prove these models. Which model is how our universe and life began is still unknown, but one of them is right or on the right track to be proven as a fact of life.

In the case of religous belief's, there doesn't exist any model that show's the univers/life cannot occur naturally per chance and need's a divine creator. Rather then producing a model showing this, they attack the gap's of information we currently have. They also cannot produce a model showing that life cannot occur naturally per chance, because this simply isn't so. One of the argument's they like to use is that you cannot get something from nothing. Point taken, but then again that disprove's a god. He is something from nothing and creating something from nothing. The contradiction there lies twofold.

Saphronia.

If you don't fear god, then why is it you don't answer the question? Whether this fear is conscious or not, the fear is still there through brainwashing from an early age with religous teaching's. Those who convert are lead to believe in the bible through so called reason, where no reason exist's. I don't follow any faith at all, and science is not a faith based belief in the sense that religion is. I may hold faith in a particular theory that has yet to be proven as a fact. But I strongly believe in the evidence and facts thus discovered by science. Such as in the case for the universe and life emerging per chance.

Maybe you are brainwashed by the devil. That is why you just avoid the fact that most all religions teach that suicide is a no-no...we're all going to jump off a cliff and run amuck if God aint real...fo sho! Straight lose it and go crazy--people will be rioting in the streetz--GIVE ME MY GOD BACK!! I CAN'T COPE!!

I'm not brainwashed in any way. I'm what you would/could call a realist. The devil is another construct of man, just as god is. Without our cognitive abilities we poses, we never would have developed the notion of divine forces. Had life never evolved on this planet, leading to us, there again would never exist the notion of a god, we wouldn't be here to come up with it! But why would people kill themselve's if there wasn't a god? We're still special in every way. Life could be a rarity in this universe for all we know. I see no logical reason for people to kill themselve's if there wasn't a god (which there isn't btw). For instance, if there is an afterlife, why not conspire to kill yourself or hint to having someone conspire to kill you so you can goto this afterlife? If there is no afterlife, you then realize your own mortality even stronger then without the belief in an afterlife, thus wanting to self preserve your mortality. We can't even effectivly procure the technology needed for life extension research in a way, due to religious ignorance.

First of all let get this straight, GOD has no place In religion, GOD sets no place and time for you to speak with him, there Is no set rule In love, express It freely and as you wish. Say whats In your heart.

How so, the monotheistic bible and god does in fact teach that there are rules to be followed, place's of worship, in some cases time's of worship and so on. This is just evidence for the evolution of religion, as society and knowledge change's so does the faith. They come up with new meaning's and teaching's that were previously non existant.

After all I found GOD, I wasn't told that he either existed or didn't. To say to me that GOD may one day be prooved non existent Is to say to me I was never born, I never had my first kiss, I never made love, and Ive never sat with the sunset. You see we all question what we are not certain about, but that ends when tha answers become clear.

How did you find god? Did your faith start at home and at the church and over sucsessive year's of teaching's you suddenly open your eye's and realized, yes, that's it, that's the answer for sure! You never truly found a god. You were just brainwashed through year's of teaching's of god. If your a convert, then the faith reside's still in brainwash through unfounded reasoning. Just as people say IDT is scientific through reasoning and observance (hence why they lack evidence and will never obtain it). Well, rather then reasoning and observance, provide a model that prove's life cannot occur through natural means per chance alone and require's a divine creator. If they could do that, then there would be no question. But they can't do that becuase that then raises the whole hell issue if they do, which scare's the crap out of them.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Produkt]

If you don't fear god, then why is it you don't answer the question?

First, I didn't say I don't fear God. I said fear of God isn't relevant to your question for a Christian because repentance is all that is required for us to be saved and all one has to do is ask. I don't fear asking questions are even questioning my faith. If you think that all people of faith live in that type of fear you are mistaken. Joy is faith in the Lord. We die daily, which is daily repentance of sin, because Jesus shed his blood and we believe, so we are saved. I did answer the hypothetical question to the best of my ability. I don't know what else to tell you...if there were proof there were no God...I would still believe in the words of Jesus Christ, he's dope. I've put Him through the ringer and sometimes I am a horrible Christian by anyone's standards...but he hasn't failed me yet.

I don't follow any faith at all, and science is not a faith based belief in the sense that religion is. I may hold faith in a particular theory that has yet to be proven as a fact. But I strongly believe in the evidence and facts thus discovered by science.

If I am brainwashed so are you. You didn't come to these facts on your own...you read and researched them and found them pleasing. That is a faith in the writers and researchers you have come in contact with...I have read and research the bible and find the work of Jesus pleasing and thus my faith in his divinity. I was raised around Islam and Christianity. The ideologies that I was taught were at odds. For a time I questioned if there was a God because of the differences and the complete assurety of both the Muslims and Christians in my life. I believe in Christ because He believes in me. If you have never tried Him then you don't know what I mean (I'm sure the Christians here do). You will find this explanation wanting just as science cannot explain anything to me. I know the science I found it wanting.

For the ranting about religious ignorance...I don't know what you are talking about...you got beef with God that's obvious...I think you should pray about it because God has nothing to do with the government of the United States. You need to open your eyes...research something other than evolution because those that are holding back human advancement don't work on God's team.


Edit: spelling

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Saphronia]

[edit on 12-2-2006 by One_Love_One_GOD]

Originally posted by shaunybaby
as for a good number of posts on this thread, who totally avoided the 'ACTUAL' question, shame on you. it's a hypothetical 'IF' god were disproven, and you went on about the fact that god is in everyone of us, we're god, and so on. you couldn't even for one second take on board the hypothetical situation of god being disproven, let alone that actually happening.

Ok, you want a straight answer on what I'd do if God was disproven? I'd go see a movie at my local theater because I enjoy watching movies. Happy now? I wasn't trying to avoid the question, I was just trying to point out that if we really want to honestly consider it I think it's a little more complicated than we realize. The main point I am trying to convey is that if someone says, "Imagine God doesn't exist" then to respond you'd have to know who/what God is and frankly I don't think anyone or at least the vast majority of people can understand who/what God is.

Originally posted by Produkt

First of all let get this straight, GOD has no place In religion, GOD sets no place and time for you to speak with him, there Is no set rule In love, express It freely and as you wish. Say whats In your heart.

How so, the monotheistic bible and god does in fact teach that there are rules to be followed, place's of worship, in some cases time's of worship and so on. This is just evidence for the evolution of religion, as society and knowledge change's so does the faith. They come up with new meaning's and teaching's that were previously non existant.

Jesus said that the church of GOD Is In your heart, you do not need to go to any so called house of GOD and kneel to any statue of a cross, prayer Is voluntary not copulsery. When you tell your girlfriend you love her do you do so because It Is what you think she would like to hear or do you do It because it's from your heart?

Yes GOD has rules, for example try not to kill anyone, rest for one day a week, love your neighbour......

But does that make GOD's word a religion?, NO!, But It does mean that GOD expects you to uphold what Is right, and whats right Is right.

Originally posted by Produkt

After all I found GOD, I wasn't told that he either existed or didn't. To say to me that GOD may one day be prooved non existent Is to say to me I was never born, I never had my first kiss, I never made love, and Ive never sat with the sunset. You see we all question what we are not certain about, but that ends when tha answers become clear.

How did you find god? Did your faith start at home and at the church and over sucsessive year's of teaching's you suddenly open your eye's and realized, yes, that's it, that's the answer for sure! You never truly found a god. You were just brainwashed through year's of teaching's of god. If your a convert, then the faith reside's still in brainwash through unfounded reasoning. Just as people say IDT is scientific through reasoning and observance (hence why they lack evidence and will never obtain it). Well, rather then reasoning and observance, provide a model that prove's life cannot occur through natural means per chance alone and require's a divine creator. If they could do that, then there would be no question. But they can't do that becuase that then raises the whole hell issue if they do, which scare's the crap out of them.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sory but here I am talking to a guy who says he values learning, evidence, reason and yet your telling me how I became a Christian.

You know I know what 1+1 Is, you could say I was brainwashed In to believing the answer to that question Is 2 which of course would be right, but I found the answer my-self, this Is how GOD likes It believe It or not, that's somthing you really don't seem to understand. The fact that GOD desires us to learn learn learn and seek as long as we can stand. Faith Is a word In these days that resembles doubt, you mention to an athiest the word faith and the first word that comes Into his head will be doubt.

However faith was never meant to be blind, faith should be backed by solid fact, it's the outcome of wisdom, a long road of discoveries and learning. A faith without this Is blind and worthless. Those that say they are Christians who do not seek GOD's word through Jesus will one day come to say to Him did I not proclaim In your name, did I not die for you, and Jesus will say I did not know you.

Also while were on the subject of gow life can ocur by chance that really Is a thought.

The thing that makes me laugh from an athiest scientist point of view on the Big Bang Is there belief that the big bang created matter from nowhere, from thin air, of course I believe In the Big Bang but I know that the Universe and all it's endless matter didn't spring from nothing unintentionally and chances we can conservatively assign to this: It was about one chance out of 10^20 that the force of the Big Bang could have randomly been properly balanced with the mass & gravity of the universe, in order for stars and planets to form, so that life could exist here in our cosmos. In order for life to be possible in the universe, the explosive power of the Big Bang needed to be extremely closely matched to the amount of mass and balanced with the force of gravity. If the bang was slightly too weak, the expanding matter would have collapsed back in on itself before any planets suitable for life had a chance to form, ---but if the bang was slightly too strong, the resultant matter would have been only gas that was so diffuse and expanding so fast, that no stars or planets could have formed at all, if the ratio of matter and energy to the volume of space ...had not been within about one-quadrillionth of one percent of ideal at the moment of the Big Bang, the incipient universe would have collapsed back on itself!!!!!

But why think that such a cause exists at all? Very simply, the causal inference is based in the metaphysical intuition that something cannot come out of absolutely nothing. A pure potentiality cannot actualize itself. In the case of the universe (including any boundary points), there was not anything physically prior to the initial singularity.

The potentiality for the existence of the universe could not therefore have lain in itself, since it did not exist prior to the singularity. On the theistic hypothesis, the potentiality of the universe's existence lay in the power of God to create it.

On the atheistic hypothesis, there did not even exist the potentiality for the existence of the universe, but then it seems inconceivable that the universe should become actual if there did not exist any potentiality for its existence. It seems to me therefore that a little reflection leads us to the conclusion that the origin of the universe had a cause.

In a nut shel think about It like this, your about roll a dice and you want a 6 so your chances of that are 1in6 not to bad but theres a sligh catch there Is no Dice so not only Is there the 1in6 chance of getting the right number theres you need a dice to form between the time It would take to fall from your hand to the floor.

Chances of that?

You could Indeed come up with a number, but some might say that would be Insane, I would be one of those people, but then what ever comforts you right, after all the dice had to get there somehow, butj ust how did it.

Oh yeah chance, my bad man my bad.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by One_Love_One_GOD]

Originally posted by Produkt
bigdanprice,

I still call it ignorance. Of course there's no evidence for god, but the belief of a god creating everything is still to maintane ignorance of the evidence against it.

Mate you are missing the point.
How can you disprove something there is no evidence either way for?
You are being ignorant disregarding peoples beliefs: Science has some understanding but no answers, didnt we believe the earth was once flat.

My point is this, though we have scientific evidence pointing towards one conclusion its not definitive, science cannot disprove there is no GOD.
So it comes to a question of philosophy and faith.

You have faith in science as the creation, as do I, but we dont know why...

Just keep your mind open.

Lol,

of course I believe In the Big Bang but I know that the Universe and all it's endless matter didn't spring from nothing unintentionally and chances we can conservatively assign to this: It was about one chance out of 10^20 that the force of the Big Bang could have randomly been properly balanced with the mass & gravity of the universe, in order for stars and planets to form, so that life could exist here in our cosmos.

Does that chance equal impossible? No. So, in effect, yes the universe did 'big bang' per chance. Whether you understand the full mechanics behind it or not. As quatum physics has already proven, thing's DO pop in and out of existance from seemingly nothingness. In the vaccuum of space, little fluctuation's on the quantum levels allow for virtual particles to appear for a brief ammount of time before popping out of existance again. This has already been proven an actuall occurence and one of the underlying reason's for zero-point energy research.

Now imagine nothingness (try even if you can't). This nothingness that existed before space, isn't nothingess in the truest sense of what your imagining, it's actually a sea of fluctuating virtual particles. As M-Theory show's, through interaction's on the quantum level, indeed a universe can go boom, resulting in matter. Which is another experimentally proven point. Matter has been created before through the concentration from the energy of intense laser beams. So added yet more to the per chance evidence.

Another thing, how exactly do you know matter didn't appear per chance through these quantum flucuations that have been mathematicly shown to cause a universe per chance? Imagine an infinite nothingness where more than one universe can be born. Eventually, per chance, somewhere in this infinite multiverse, one universe with the right qualities will lead to life as it exist's in this universe. This is already hard coded knowledge. But what are the chances of a god existing in nothingness creating matter from nothing? There's not any shred of evidence supporting the idea for starter's, just unquestioning blind faith and ignorance of reality.

Originally posted by Produkt
Lol,

of course I believe In the Big Bang but I know that the Universe and all it's endless matter didn't spring from nothing unintentionally and chances we can conservatively assign to this: It was about one chance out of 10^20 that the force of the Big Bang could have randomly been properly balanced with the mass & gravity of the universe, in order for stars and planets to form, so that life could exist here in our cosmos.

Does that chance equal impossible? No. So, in effect, yes the universe did 'big bang' per chance. Whether you understand the full mechanics behind it or not. As quatum physics has already proven, thing's DO pop in and out of existance from seemingly nothingness. In the vaccuum of space, little fluctuation's on the quantum levels allow for virtual particles to appear for a brief ammount of time before popping out of existance again. This has already been proven an actuall occurence and one of the underlying reason's for zero-point energy research.

Now imagine nothingness (try even if you can't). This nothingness that existed before space, isn't nothingess in the truest sense of what your imagining, it's actually a sea of fluctuating virtual particles. As M-Theory show's, through interaction's on the quantum level, indeed a universe can go boom, resulting in matter. Which is another experimentally proven point. Matter has been created before through the concentration from the energy of intense laser beams. So added yet more to the per chance evidence.

Another thing, how exactly do you know matter didn't appear per chance through these quantum flucuations that have been mathematicly shown to cause a universe per chance? Imagine an infinite nothingness where more than one universe can be born. Eventually, per chance, somewhere in this infinite multiverse, one universe with the right qualities will lead to life as it exist's in this universe. This is already hard coded knowledge. But what are the chances of a god existing in nothingness creating matter from nothing? There's not any shred of evidence supporting the idea for starter's, just unquestioning blind faith and ignorance of reality.

lol Indeed

But It's a series of chances, your point of view (or as you seem to think fact) Is just chance after chance after chance.

So youve got the universe forming ''itself'' In such an organized way (which Is fact) with all It's planets, then youve got the Earth with it's abundence of water and ripe In soil for the trees and the Moon for the lesser light so we can see at night, the SUN that makes life possible, Gravity on Earth just right so we don't go flying Into space, the Atmosphere so we can breath and also keeps out radiation, takes breath............!

All that on chance, then youve got Life Itself with complex desighns of beauty pleasing to the eye, that was all chance too, which of course as evolution, right?, Was It evoulution that naturally selected the right emount of gravity so that we dont all go flying of to space, was it evolution that gave us an atmosphere, no just chance right?

I mean when It comes down to eat what really Is a more rational and Scientific answer to how we got here on this lovely setup we call Earth, all by chance or GOD a superiour being than us far more advanced than anything Imaginable.

I mean whats more rational Product?

Are you realy saying to me that chance makes more sense? Really?

I mean study the big bang read up on the latest discoveries about how everything points to a single singlarity of a supperiour nature, It's undeniable, It's overwhelming, the organization of the way the big bang played out Is fantastic and all by chance, right?

Take a deep breath and think about what Is stoping you from thinking GOD Is a rational answer to the most Importent question, because it's not science, science IS GOD, not against, ask your self why men seek so passionatly to find evidence against GOD of which they will never find.

GOD's signature Is all over the universe, all over life on Earth, with out GOD we are Invisible to the naked eye that does not exist In the first place.

Yes science Is the key, the language of science can somtimes be very dcieving and somtimes needs to be read out In a reall world view.

A kettle Is a kettle, a car Is a car, the Iner workings of things like these can to somepeople be fasinating but lets not forget the true perpouse of what they are meant for, look outside the small cram box of so called real life and rational society and see the simple yet amazing picture.