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Questioning about God's existence.

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posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 01:57 PM
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All that on chance, then youve got Life Itself with complex desighns of beauty pleasing to the eye, that was all chance too, which of course as evolution, right?, Was It evoulution that naturally selected the right emount of gravity so that we dont all go flying of to space, was it evolution that gave us an atmosphere, no just chance right?


Evolution has nothing to do with phsyics. It's just biology. The law's of physics are what define gravity and such.




Are you realy saying to me that chance makes more sense? Really?


Indeed it does, especially with all the evidence pointing to such a per chance casuality and with all the evidence pointing towards a psychological invention of both religion and god. We understand the psychology and physiological reason's in the brain for why people fantasize and make up fairy tale's. We also see clear cut evidence that man invented the notion of god/afterlife/and a soul to explain the universe/life/death issue's.

So really, what is more rational? When all the evidence point's to one direction and one direction only, does it really make sense to go against the current and believe in something that has no foundation for belief in the first place?

We're getting to a point in our civilization where this belief is doing more harm than good. IMO, religion should be outlawed as it raises more problem's than it solve's.




posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 02:24 PM
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Ok so in theory...

Questioning GOD is a sin right?

So then why couldn't you question GOD, lets say in this forum, and then go to the local parish and repent in confession. I mean, GOD is all forgiving isin't he. If GOD can forgive a murderer on death row because he confessed and repented. Then couldn't GOD forgive you for answering a question. It's like a fail-safe.

[edit on 2/12/2006 by urbanoyster01]



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Produkt



All that on chance, then youve got Life Itself with complex desighns of beauty pleasing to the eye, that was all chance too, which of course as evolution, right?, Was It evoulution that naturally selected the right emount of gravity so that we dont all go flying of to space, was it evolution that gave us an atmosphere, no just chance right?


Evolution has nothing to do with phsyics. It's just biology. The law's of physics are what define gravity and such.




Are you realy saying to me that chance makes more sense? Really?


Indeed it does, especially with all the evidence pointing to such a per chance casuality and with all the evidence pointing towards a psychological invention of both religion and god. We understand the psychology and physiological reason's in the brain for why people fantasize and make up fairy tale's. We also see clear cut evidence that man invented the notion of god/afterlife/and a soul to explain the universe/life/death issue's.

So really, what is more rational? When all the evidence point's to one direction and one direction only, does it really make sense to go against the current and believe in something that has no foundation for belief in the first place?

We're getting to a point in our civilization where this belief is doing more harm than good. IMO, religion should be outlawed as it raises more problem's than it solve's.


Ok then heres a spanner In the works, How Is chance anymore proovable than GOD.

Talking of fantasizing and making up fairy tale's, chance comes to mind.

Before I became a Christian (by chance Product?) I had no need for GOD at least this Is what I thought, I did not seek him through fear, you see the message of Jesus Christ Is not salvation at all, this Is just another myth and form of deception. The true meaning and word of GOD Is hidden and It's up to you to find It.

Also Product why are you so obsesed with religion, In a disscusion about GOD religion has no place, It NEVER has and never will, only by those who would have It so and with a goal, religion Is just another tool of the wicked.

What fondation of belief do I have of GOD you ask Product, experiance, It is not my wish to force any thing on you Product but If you was a wiseman you would not make these false accusations, like Im brainwashed, I fear my GOD which Is why I ''believe'' In him, none of these have any place In GOD's heart. You really have no understanding In GOD what so ever Product, none, nada, zilch, your playing rugby with a tennis ball.

Like I said before the afterlife has nothing to with GOD we were Intended to live forever, and yes Im sure you know the scientific explanation for this, somthing else we seek to correct now, to stop the aging process, to stop the cell copying less Identicle each time would mean we would go back to the begging how we were Intended to be, so then how Is It that GOD was created out of fear of Death?

What was It that those so called clever men all those years ago Intended for mankind when they ''madeup'' GOD, controll? But I am In controll of my self I know what Is right, I make my own dessions, a value that GOD holds most high, Now Religion on the other hand Is a different story all together, If Im a Catholic say, I would be Influenced by the pope, I would have to go a confess to a priest. There would be a form of controll over me.

But the only person who gains In the knoledge of GOD Is me, no one else, not because of an after life, I will die happily and stay there In rest as any TRUE christian would aggree, not because of fear, because whats to fear from the being that gave you life and freewill, I know whats right and It sits right to act on whats right.

Simply knowing GOD and his true word does no harm what so ever, because If it does then you have your own motives and you do not hold what GOD wants high, as does religion, the worst plauge to mankind.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by urbanoyster01
Ok so in theory...

Questioning GOD is a sin right?

So then why couldn't you question GOD, lets say in this forum, and then go to the local parish and repent in confession. I mean, GOD is all forgiving isin't he. If GOD can forgive a murderer on death row because he confessed and repented. Then couldn't GOD forgive you for answering a question. It's like a fail-safe.

[edit on 2/12/2006 by urbanoyster01]


To question GOD is not a sin, maybe If your religious It would aledgedly be how ever to question GOD Is a personal thing from a Christians view If indeed you are not developed to question him in the first place, from an Athiest point of view It Is just the road of discovery.

People look onto GOD with such harsh eyes, we must realise that we are more like GOD than we understand, remember that.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 03:23 PM
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Talking of fantasizing and making up fairy tale's, chance comes to mind.


Mmm, not at all. See, there's evidence backing up the natural per chance cause's for a universe and life. But, it's true that it's a fairy tale with a god creating the universe. There's litterally no evidence at all. Meaning, there's no model showing that life can't occur naturally per chance and required a creator. Also It's quite obvious that god is the creation of man, not the other way around. Where as, scientific discoveries are not the creation of man, they were just discoveries.



What fondation of belief do I have of GOD you ask Product, experiance, It is not my wish to force any thing on you Product but If you was a wiseman you would not make these false accusations, like Im brainwashed, I fear my GOD which Is why I ''believe'' In him, none of these have any place In GOD's heart. You really have no understanding In GOD what so ever Product, none, nada, zilch, your playing rugby with a tennis ball.


Ok, so your self admitting that the foundation of your belief reside's not on evidence and proof, but beased upon the so called experience's. So then, pre tell, what were these experience's? Were they miraculous experience's? Experience's you couldn't explain no other way because you had no other frame or refrence? I'm just curious, if your a convert, then what experience's did you have that lead you to convert.




Like I said before the afterlife has nothing to with GOD we were Intended to live forever, and yes Im sure you know the scientific explanation for this, somthing else we seek to correct now, to stop the aging process, to stop the cell copying less Identicle each time would mean we would go back to the begging how we were Intended to be, so then how Is It that GOD was created out of fear of Death?


If we were intended to live forever, by reason alone, don't you think we would be able to live forever? Why are we trying to stop the aging process today? Has nothing to do with god, but has everything to do with the knowledge that we are mortal's. We're born, we live, then we die. Poof. Gone just like that. Obviously people don't like dying, unless they're some religous fanatic ona suicide mission lol.

Moving on, initially god wasn't created, we was evolved over time. The link in my sig explains some of it rather well I think.




What was It that those so called clever men all those years ago Intended for mankind when they ''madeup'' GOD, controll? But I am In controll of my self I know what Is right, I make my own dessions, a value that GOD holds most high, Now Religion on the other hand Is a different story all together, If Im a Catholic say, I would be Influenced by the pope, I would have to go a confess to a priest. There would be a form of controll over me.


Indeed, control was one aspect for orginized religion, but another aspect for religion's birth was to explain that which we don't understand. How was the universe created, what is death, how did life originate. Just to name a few. You can clearly see the evidence for religion evolution even today.




But the only person who gains In the knoledge of GOD Is me, no one else, not because of an after life, I will die happily and stay there In rest as any TRUE christian would aggree, not because of fear, because whats to fear from the being that gave you life and freewill, I know whats right and It sits right to act on whats right.


What's to fear? Easy. Your own mortality. If that god and afterlife weren't real, you'd wake up a hell of alot more to your own mortality then you realize. But in essence, the afterlife was conjured up by man to explain what happens when we die. And other reason's. Here's one my wife tried on me lol... Go tell your kids what death is. She tried this once. Started telling them the truth and they were horrified, so she stopped and said well, those people are in heaven now so it's ok. Some thing's are just too scary to think about.




Simply knowing GOD and his true word does no harm what so ever, because If it does then you have your own motives and you do not hold what GOD wants high, as does religion, the worst plauge to mankind.


Without the religous teaching's you wouldn't know a god existed. Just as man invented religion, he also invented the notion of a god. If we never evolved to this level we are at now, you wouldn't know the difference. You'd be a hairy little monkey like creature scratching your anus all day picking mite's off your mate. You never would have developed the capacity to even grasp the concept's you hold now. Given all that, how do you know what god's true word is? Did he come down and talk to people, just as religion teach's? Or is this some innate ability, that only you and other people who blindly believe in a god, have?




Also Product why are you so obsesed with religion, In a disscusion about GOD religion has no place, It NEVER has and never will, only by those who would have It so and with a goal, religion Is just another tool of the wicked.





Before I became a Christian


Why do you belong to a religion then? Why follow the teaching's of another rool of the wicked? Or ... are you claiming christianity is the truest religion there is? What made you convert to christianity anyways? Guess that's the same as the previous question... what experience's did you have. Also, at what age too! Kid's are rather gullible. Even some adult's, I love showing them that, especially my sister, she's the most gullible person I know lol.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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Hmm....well, it seems I have to answer a question I got in a U2U.

The question is: SFRemmy, what would you do if when you died, you found out there was a heaven and all the things you're taught to believe in Catholocism.

Well unless I'm mistaken, which I might be, St. Peter greets you at the gate. So if there is indeed a heaven, I'll shake St. Peter's hand, tell him to thank Jesus and God for the chance of redemption. Then resign myself to hell.

After all I did shun god, I believe there's a passage in the bible that goes something like "Jesus said to the crowd those who deny me on earth, I will deny knowing them in heaven" Something along those lines.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 04:55 PM
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Mmm, not at all. See, there's evidence backing up the natural per chance cause's for a universe and life. But, it's true that it's a fairy tale with a god creating the universe. There's litterally no evidence at all. Meaning, there's no model showing that life can't occur naturally per chance and required a creator. Also It's quite obvious that god is the creation of man, not the other way around. Where as, scientific discoveries are not the creation of man, they were just discoveries.


There Is more evidence for GOD than anything scientific In nature, anything.
We are for a start, the human mind, the level of detail In consciousness, the organization In the way the Unverse formed, you see Product we both have a GOD mine Is called GOD yours Is called chance. Because not only do you place the universe and the life withinit to it, your also living every day by chance. This Is the key word here In this part of the disscussion, discovery, the foundation for all human knoledge, I used the word experiance earlier the two can sometimes be the same thing you understand.



Ok, so your self admitting that the foundation of your belief reside's not on evidence and proof, but beased upon the so called experience's. So then, pre tell, what were these experience's? Were they miraculous experience's? Experience's you couldn't explain no other way because you had no other frame or refrence? I'm just curious, if your a convert, then what experience's did you have that lead you to convert.


Like I said experiance can somtimes be the same as discovery for Instance, I take an extacy pill and I discover by experiance what It feels like. But can you proove to me by word of mouth what It feels like and prove to me that It felt amazing.

When you met your now wife what happened to you as you came to know her, can you prove to me what It felt like, can you make me feel the same ammount of love that you feel for your wife for a person that does not exist?

Ill have all that In bold writing please and can I claim credit?



If we were intended to live forever, by reason alone, don't you think we would be able to live forever? Why are we trying to stop the aging process today? Has nothing to do with god, but has everything to do with the knowledge that we are mortal's. We're born, we live, then we die. Poof. Gone just like that. Obviously people don't like dying, unless they're some religous fanatic ona suicide mission lol.


Why are we trying to stop the aging process today? Because It Is possible and very feasable In the near future. Yes we were Intended to live forever, why are we not now? Apple anyone? It has everything to do with GOD except from your point of view. Course people don't like dying, do you know why that Is? Ill tell you, because it's not natural, consciousness does not agree with It In the slightest, but that's because the common consciousness Is confused, there Is somthing missing from the common man, a hole In the building blocks of ones state of mind. Again you bring religion Into the eqasion, tut tut.



Indeed, control was one aspect for orginized religion, but another aspect for religion's birth was to explain that which we don't understand. How was the universe created, what is death, how did life originate. Just to name a few. You can clearly see the evidence for religion evolution even today.


Religion It-self has nothing to do with the question of why we are here, If It did then why all the rules that come with It, they are the result of desire to dominate. You say that GOD Is a result of this question also but to know GOD Is to seek truth other wise known as science, for me just the surface of creation Is enough but you can go so much deeper than that, down to the tinest details and It shows so much organization, to think we are made of tiny atoms, the whole universe Is made of tiny atoms, and If you can get a view of the whole universe just maybe the whole universe might be just one big atom in, say, some super-duper huge thing out there somewhere, or something. Lets call It a ball of chance.



What's to fear? Easy. Your own mortality. If that god and afterlife weren't real, you'd wake up a hell of alot more to your own mortality then you realize. But in essence, the afterlife was conjured up by man to explain what happens when we die. And other reason's. Here's one my wife tried on me lol... Go tell your kids what death is. She tried this once. Started telling them the truth and they were horrified, so she stopped and said well, those people are in heaven now so it's ok. Some thing's are just too scary to think about.


Who said I fear my own mortality? I thank GOD for that every day mate


Like Ive said before I seek no afterlife, nor have I ever, nither will any true Christian, GOD gave us life, please sir can I have some more? Lol, my GOD does not condone such behaviour, to seek somthing for your own desires Is wrong and nothing good will ever come of It. Give glory to GOD for that which he has given you, GOD is not a bank manager. Heaven Is also greatly misunderstood, Is Heaven a place or Is it somthing else, for me Heaven Is wisdom and to know GOD, you let him In and he will prepare a place In your heart, to die gracfully. Hell does not exist this Is just another of many missinterpreptations.

There Is far more to It than afterlife and believing In GOD, If It was all made up then It would be made to suit mankind, but GOD's true message does not suit the mass of mankind, It bugs them, hence they change It, make Religions out of It, and corrupt It In everyway Imaginable.



Without the religous teaching's you wouldn't know a god existed. Just as man invented religion, he also invented the notion of a god. If we never evolved to this level we are at now, you wouldn't know the difference. You'd be a hairy little monkey like creature scratching your anus all day picking mite's off your mate. You never would have developed the capacity to even grasp the concept's you hold now. Given all that, how do you know what god's true word is? Did he come down and talk to people, just as religion teach's? Or is this some innate ability, that only you and other people who blindly believe in a god, have?


Please explain to me how you came to this conclusion. The was no religiouse teachings In my finding GOD, It was far more personal than that, there was no outside Influence other than GOD, It was very one on one. A bond formed between me a Jesus. The reason I know GOD now Is for no other reason other that thats the way it's meant to be. It's back to the extacy pill again how does one prove by word of mouth of the feeling it gives. I know GOD's true word because I listen, It clerly plays out In my life, there Is no mistaking It, It Is undeniable, I strugled with this once, because It like tuning Into a radio, It really Is plain as day. I do not blindly believe In GOD, not by a long shot, discovery Is unmistakable when It hits you In the face. How do you pick up on what your wife Is feeling, how does she help you when your down, what makes a friendship real.



Why do you belong to a religion then? Why follow the teaching's of another rool of the wicked? Or ... are you claiming christianity is the truest religion there is? What made you convert to christianity anyways? Guess that's the same as the previous question... what experience's did you have. Also, at what age too! Kid's are rather gullible. Even some adult's, I love showing them that, especially my sister, she's the most gullible person I know lol.


I did not convert from anything!! I stand alone with GOD, it's just me and him. Im telling you that there Is only GOD and his word, everything else Is deception that stem from truth with it's own goals. I became a Christian when I became human, I did not seek It In anyway shape or form. I did not need it which Is what i though at the time, the experiances I had like I said berfore was a form of frienship, It wasn't all sweet and roses at first, I found GOD by chance (haha) and am thankfull for that every day. I read all sorts of Infomation everyday, I read about all sort of scientific discoveries every day, there Is proof of GOD everywhere, and If you look for I, It becomes plain as day, you can't deny It If you look, only the voluntarily blind would deny.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 05:19 PM
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I became a Christian when I became human


Ok wait... before I get into the rest of the post I do need this phrase cleared up. You've been a christian all your life then? From birth up till now? Or are you saying you weren't a human till you became a christian?



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Produkt



I became a Christian when I became human


Ok wait... before I get into the rest of the post I do need this phrase cleared up. You've been a christian all your life then? From birth up till now? Or are you saying you weren't a human till you became a christian?


I mean when I came out of myself, when I evolved Into someone with an Identity, just a figure of speach old bean


I was able to understand and learn, I became Interested In Evolution, the world, the Universe and life and began to learn about them.

Evolution never sat right with me when I started to learn about it.

I laughed at the Idea of chance and wondered why the need for such a ridicolouse Idea....and then....



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 05:49 PM
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Ok, let's try asking this again.

When you were a child, were you a christian? Did your parent's take you to church? If they did not take you to church as a child, then how did you come to learn of christianity and follow it's teachings? Or did you become christian after you became an adult (if your an adult, if not disregard the question) If you became a christian as an adult, what made you decide to become of christian faith?

Please, just answer the question honestly without the computer generated responses.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Produkt
Ok, let's try asking this again.

When you were a child, were you a christian? Did your parent's take you to church? If they did not take you to church as a child, then how did you come to learn of christianity and follow it's teachings? Or did you become christian after you became an adult (if your an adult, if not disregard the question) If you became a christian as an adult, what made you decide to become of christian faith?

Please, just answer the question honestly without the computer generated responses.


Please, just answer the question honestly without the computer generated responses?????

Im happy to talk with you product but you come across very arogent and make alot of acusations, also you seem to be very obsessed with Religion.

Yes Im 20, how did I become a christian? hmmmmm



Well I became a christian at a very young age (12) that's 8 years ago, I was an absolute little # when I was younger, I used to get up to all sorts (seriously bad stuff) lol which Is all the more amazing that Im christian now. The things I would be up to now at 20 would be alot different, Im not perfect and still can be that little # I was, Im not an Imoral person Im a beautiful person at heart.

Right so going back 8 years before I became I christian I randomly just picked up a bible of the shelf at my old mans because I was bored (he used to own a shop bric&brac) which was out of character for me at the time because I really wasn't the sort of person to want to read about such a thing as a bible. I don't know why I did but I did none the less. Now when I started to read It I felt this drug like feeling In my body, It was euphoria, Imense feeling. I think this may have been the holy spirit and I was like whats going on lol!

Anyway I didn't have any outside Influence before I accepted christ Into my heart and I didn't do the traditional prayer as many christians mention to accept christ, I just said to my self wow this Is what is missing from me I feel whole this (GOD's word) Is like what I know but do not know coming to light and It made perfect sense to me.

Untill you actually experiance It, It is totally unimaginable and to me It's not a faith or religion (mans worst plauge) it's a fact of life, a relationship. Whenever I read the bible I would have this drug like feeling and I became quite Intelegent so to speak, I could actually concentrate on the the text and it sunk in and I could remember it which of course was thanks to the Holy Spirit.

Also I came to really love talking about It and I debated alot (how mad does this sound for a chavy 12 year old) with my brother Inlaw who worked In the shop unfortunatly he really dag into me quite fierce at times, he would endlessy try to put my faith down and come out with all sorts of statements against christianity he just wouldn't stop untill he had gotten his point(s) accross and I came away from christianity. He was relentless.

Unfortunatly he succeded due to other extremly dark and sad things that happened to me at the time. My life was great before all this lol, I couldn't hack it. I conciously rejected christ as somthing inside me was ecking at me to do, It was unbearable, I had to.

Two months went past and I couldn't put christ behind me, I kept telling myself it's not real it's just mumbo jumbo, all fantasy. I couldn't no matter how I tried things just got worse and worse for me. At the time I really couldn't understand wtf was going on Inside me, I came to understand that Christ/GOD hadn't forgotten me and I knew I had done wrong turning away from christianity, and what had happened had happened for a reason. I accepted Jesus again into my heart and it was like getting better from a flu, I felt a Billion times better.

To this day Im a christian, I find out the facts for myself, my faith Is not blind, It is stronger than ever and just as Jesus did not turn away from me In those dark days at such a young age, I will never turn from him or GOD.

That's It just In a very small nutshell, a very shallow look at It.

I have gone from strength to strength with GOD, but I am so much closer to him now In the last two months than ever before, It seems somthing Is drawing near and GOD has made Is word much clearer, even to most doubtfull of GOD are question as to weather or not his existence Is feasable. Theres a big shock coming for people like you product, I can only hope you find what your looking for matie I really do, for you and you familys sake



I have seen some amazing things play out In my life product unmistakingly thanks to GOD, I can see why the world Is like It Is today, I see the motives behind religion and why GOD causes such a passion In all men alike.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 07:02 PM
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Lol,

Ah ok, I see the problem then ...


You "found" god as a child. My wife tries teaching my seven year old about religion, despite me being dead set against it (I follow the path of reality, not fantasy). Now, mind you, my wife isn't religous either, but for some odd reason she feel's the need to allow our kids to make up their own minds on the issue, even if it's the wrong decision. Not long ago I asked my kid something about the universe or something along those line's. Which after, she went into some spiel about god. I tried correcting her and she wouldn't believe me! Later, come to find out, she was reading a bible geared towards children that explained their views in good felly childish ways.

I later realized she wasn't "following" per se, these belief's. It was just the only explanation for everything that she had at the time. Which I suddenly realized after the fact, that I wasn't really teaching her about the birth of the universe and how life started on earth. I really felt she was to young be thinking about these thing's or even grasp the scientific viewpoint's/evidence's of it. Well, now I've been teaching her these thing's. Looking up video's and such, doing little experiment's with her and my 4 year old.

After explaining these thing's and showing her the thing's science has discovered she now talks less and less about god. She doesn't read the bible anywhere as how she did before. Before she used to take the damn thing everywhere! Now it's .... actually idk where it even is. Not in sight atleast, save's her the embaressment when she get's to science class, now she won't stupidly say nuh uh! god did it!.

Anyway's, point is, had I not interviened and taught her otherwise, she could've turn out like you perhaps. You found god as a child. Even before the age of twelve you stated you were still reading the bible. That whole sense of euphorism is an emotional response that any book could give you! Human's can't help but feel good when they read something that read's in a good way. Another example, when you watch movies, you could easily get pissed at a certain character in the movie and start yelling at the tv! Hell, I do that often lol. I give in to my emotion's easily most the time, keep's me human.



The part of my obsession with religion is the same sort of obsession with those in religion who want to spread it. They want to spread the fantasy of god. I'd rather spread the truth of reality, however scary it may be.

My problem with religion is, people remain ignorant. Not all, but enough to the point where it's a big enough problem. The whole belief in god and the religion's that stem from it actually do more harm then good! Even in the world of christianity.

For instance, as you've shown. Ask yourself, does there exist a model showing how the universe and life cannot exist per chance and need's the action of a divine creator?

Sweet simple answer is? No.

Look at the myraid of theories and evidence's for those theories and the experimental proof for those theories all dealing with a naturalistic per chance cause for the universe and life.

Seriously, if your thinking with a rational mind, do you really think life needed a creator when there does not, never has, and never will be a model and evidence and experimental proof showing that life cannot occur per chance... do you honestly believe any of that make's sense? Also keeping in mind that the very notion of god did start with the very formation of religion itself, so the two are mutually tied, atleast originally, untill it later evolved into the myraid belief's we see today.

To me, that doesn't make any sense at all. How can one possibly so blindly believe in something just because they read it out of a book or were told about it, when there doesn't exist any evidence for it? You blindly believe just because a book made you feel good? You blindly believe because you think life is too complex to occur naturally without any proof showing that this is true?

This literally make's no logical sense at all. Make's no rational sense at all. Just doesn't make sense period!



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 08:18 PM
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Interesting video I found on google.


video.google.com...



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 08:46 PM
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Heh ... guess there really is an intelligent designer after all. I now believe!


designerspeaks.com...

Awsome video, everyone should watch this



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 08:58 PM
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Ah ok, I see the problem then ...


Through out this disscusion you have been dying to say this Infact you really said It before you said it





You "found" god as a child. My wife tries teaching my seven year old about religion, despite me being dead set against it (I follow the path of reality, not fantasy). Now, mind you, my wife isn't religous either, but for some odd reason she feel's the need to allow our kids to make up their own minds on the issue, even if it's the wrong decision. Not long ago I asked my kid something about the universe or something along those line's. Which after, she went into some spiel about god. I tried correcting her and she wouldn't believe me! Later, come to find out, she was reading a bible geared towards children that explained their views in good felly childish ways.


Your saying you wish to rule out one thin and set another In stone, for your childs freedoom In thought process I hope you realise that this Is crucial In order to be truelly passionate about somthing, It Is good that your wife teaches her to weigh between lots of things. But do not say to her that one thing Is Imposible and the other Is fact. If your going to say to her that the universe Is a product of chance then how Is it that your view stands true that you disslike the Idea of Imposing Ideas on a young Impresionate mind?

So all that I learn as I grow for child to adult becomes void and fantasy because I was young and Impresionate?

Yes a childs mind Is very seceptical to lots of things, but mostly fear now you take fear out of the eqasion and a child will only take In what Is usefull to them. Only If they get somthing out of it. As a child from my understanding I stood to gain nothing from GOD, he was alien to me. I couldn't understand him, but he made himself clear to me, he helped me to understand, I became five years more mature In a heartbeat.

I went from being a badly behaved young lad to a wise yong man In a heart beat. People around me friends and family found It rather odd, they noticed a change In me, a change of character, none of this was planed out by me It was GOD, It had nothing to do with the Bible even. In fact It would have happened In a dark padded room with nothing within, because once you hear GOD's knocking on your door you let him In. It's just that first step of waking up enough to realise that your In control and It starts from there.

I love the way you try to come across to me as If I hadn't thought about It before or I hadn't realised It before, Ive done my research Ive got the t-shirt, my faith Is built on solid fact. Just as E=MC squared. You need to experiment a bit more product stop being so one sided. Yes It's good to be a realist as am I but youve got to realise why Is IT so hard from your point of view to think hold on a minute Ill give this a chance, yeah It maybe feasable.

So Ive got a few questions for you Product.

Why Is It hard for you to believe In GOD?

What makes him so unfeasable and ridicolous to you?

What Is it that actually says Inside your head, nah no way!

Why Is It easier for you to believe In somthing that makes less sense than GOD.

I mean when It come to the crunch, nothing Is solid fact when It comes to the origins of life from an atheist point of view it all up for grabs and the table can be turned In a heart beat, theories are being changed all the time, new ones emerging, none of them more provable or less provable from an atheist point of view.




Anyway's, point is, had I not interviened and taught her otherwise, she could've turn out like you perhaps. You found god as a child. Even before the age of twelve you stated you were still reading the bible. That whole sense of euphorism is an emotional response that any book could give you! Human's can't help but feel good when they read something that read's in a good way. Another example, when you watch movies, you could easily get pissed at a certain character in the movie and start yelling at the tv! Hell, I do that often lol. I give in to my emotion's easily most the time, keep's me human.


So are you saying that children should be put right and told the so called facts? whats the difference between that and brainwashing? You said It your-self Product you Intervened, you took away her GOD given right of discovery, not religion or GOD, you did. Lol, what I felt from reading the book was not of the origin of when I read about some I like or a really exciting bit In a book, It's far more complex and Inteligent than that. But that was only a small ripple In the pond old bean.

Being a child had no bearing on my becoming a christian what so ever, I had no background of It or Interest, I had never read a bible before, it comes down to that knocking again.




The part of my obsession with religion is the same sort of obsession with those in religion who want to spread it. They want to spread the fantasy of god. I'd rather spread the truth of reality, however scary it may be.


How does your upmost belief of chance hold any more true than GOD, how does that benefit them anymore, why Is It you teach what you are against. To spread your most upheld beliefs. You did I with your daughter too, tut tut very hyporcritical aint we Product.




My problem with religion is, people remain ignorant. Not all, but enough to the point where it's a big enough problem. The whole belief in god and the religion's that stem from it actually do more harm then good! Even in the world of christianity.


This Is when the word of GOD becomes corrupt, when people manipulate It for there own goals. Tell me one word of christ that would cause harm to those that uphold It's true meaning?




For instance, as you've shown. Ask yourself, does there exist a model showing how the universe and life cannot exist per chance and need's the action of a divine creator?

Look at the myraid of theories and evidence's for those theories and the experimental proof for those theories all dealing with a naturalistic per chance cause for the universe and life.

Seriously, if your thinking with a rational mind, do you really think life needed a creator when there does not, never has, and never will be a model and evidence and experimental proof showing that life cannot occur per chance... do you honestly believe any of that make's sense?


Could God ordain that the Law of the Simplest Beginning obtains? The definition of God is that he is the cause of any universe that exists. Thus it would be inconsistent with this definition to suppose that he ordains a law that implies there is a universe that begins to exist without a cause.

The theist may point to a potential weakness; if God does not exist and the Law of the Simplest Beginning obtains, then we are left with a brute fact. The law explains the singularity, but what explains the obtaining of the law?

There is no explanation; the law is contingently true. Does this mean that the atheistic theory leaves us with an ultimate brute fact, the obtaining of this law, whereas theism does not leave us with an ultimate brute fact?

The theistic hypothesis also has an unexplained contingency. This contingency is not God's act of creating the big bang. This act is explained in terms of agent causality; God performs the act and in this sense is the cause of the act. The creative act has a causal explanation in terms of its agent. But there is another event that has no explanation, namely, the event of God causing the creative act. Note that this is not the event of causing the big bang. The event of causing the big bang is a relation of God's creative act to the big bang. This event is caused by God. The uncaused event is the event of God causing his creative act, or, in other words, Of God performing his act of creation. There is nothing that causes God to perform this creative act; God's causing or performing his creative act is free (in the libertarian sense) and thus is an ultimate brute fact.

And then there was Light....




Also keeping in mind that the very notion of god did start with the very formation of religion itself, so the two are mutually tied, atleast originally, untill it later evolved into the myraid belief's we see today.

To me, that doesn't make any sense at all. How can one possibly so blindly believe in something just because they read it out of a book or were told about it, when there doesn't exist any evidence for it? You blindly believe just because a book made you feel good? You blindly believe because you think life is too complex to occur naturally without any proof showing that this is true?

This literally make's no logical sense at all. Make's no rational sense at all. Just doesn't make sense period!

No GOD never stemed from religion, how Is a relationship a religion?

I do not blindly believe from a book Product, as I have stated time before It Is was self discovery, Just as I tought my self to build computers, take cars apart, lay carpets, paint and draw, I learnt from experiance. GOD was knocking and I answered, just as he is knocking on your door now. Yes Life Is to complicated to happen by chance this Is fact.

Nothing In this world Is logical from your point of view, the very fact that we are here from your point of view Is unlogical.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 10:22 PM
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If your going to say to her that the universe Is a product of chance then how Is it that your view stands true that you disslike the Idea of Imposing Ideas on a young Impresionate mind?


I can kinda understanding what your saying here, but on that same note, would you let your child grow up into adulthood thinking fictional character's such as the easter bunny and santa claus really did exist? Based upon their early childhood experience's and the stories told in book's and by their parent's, these fictional character's did indeed exist in their world. Would you rather teach your kid the truth, or would you rather teach your kid to remain ignorant of the truth? I chose to teach my kid the truth.




Why Is It hard for you to believe In GOD?


There's no need to believe in a god for starter's. I'm not living in a primitive society based upon a world view of mysticism. The ample contradiction's also make it hard for one to follow such a ridiculous notion.



What makes him so unfeasable and ridicolous to you?


Let's see... For starter's, all evidence point's to a naturally occuring universe and life therein per chance. Where as there's no evidence pointing to a universe or life can not exist unless a god created it. For me to believe in the later just seem's ridiculous. Especially given that the first has evidence and experimental proof that it is true. And the later has evidence of evolution per each succesive change in society and discoevery. So why would one still believe in a god?




What Is it that actually says Inside your head, nah no way!


Read above answer.




Why Is It easier for you to believe In somthing that makes less sense than GOD.


In no way does it not make any sense. Actually, it makes perfect sense. It doesn't make sense however for those who fail to understand and grasp the concept's behind it.

What make's more sense? A belief in a mystical cause without evidence of a mystical cause?

OR

Belief in a per chance cause with evidence of a per chance cause?

I think the answer would be pretty obvious.




I mean when It come to the crunch, nothing Is solid fact when It comes to the origins of life from an atheist point of view it all up for grabs and the table can be turned In a heart beat, theories are being changed all the time, new ones emerging, none of them more provable or less provable from an atheist point of view.


Not true at all. If anything, the more and more we discover, the more and more evidence keeps showing that this was all a naturally occuring per chance event. I understand however that some people can't cope nor grasp with concepts such as nothingness and infinitness. We don't exist in either, so how can there be either? Very very hard concept for some to understand.




So are you saying that children should be put right and told the so called facts? whats the difference between that and brainwashing?


How is teaching your child the truth considered brainwashing? Children should be taught the truth. We don't teach them green is red and bird's are cat's do we? However, if I taught my children to believe that santa claus was a real person, and they truely came to believe this is so, that would be considered brainwashing. I don't teach them not to learn about religion, but I do teach them about religous history and it's evolution through the age's and how the misconceptions of religion have been proven wrong as we discovered more and more about our universe. So in a sense, I'm not really brainwashing them at all, but teaching them the truth instead.




How does your upmost belief of chance hold any more true than GOD, how does that benefit them anymore, why Is It you teach what you are against. To spread your most upheld beliefs. You did I with your daughter too, tut tut very hyporcritical aint we Product.


It hold's true from evidence and experimental proof. What's there of god? A blind faith following and a clear evidence of religous evolution, including that of god. Even the monotheistic religion's of today redefine who god is and what he expect's. Including christianity may I add. Christianity wasn't the first monotheistic religion. Nor was it the first religion, nor was it the first to conceptualize the notion of a higher diety. So in reality, christianity isn't the true religion at all, nor is it's notion and teaching's of god.



This Is when the word of GOD becomes corrupt, when people manipulate It for there own goals. Tell me one word of christ that would cause harm to those that uphold It's true meaning?


Correct, the moral teaching's themselve's hold no harm. That much I agree with. However, how many people throughout history have proclaimed to be warriors of god? How many people have started war's out of saying that god spoke to them and told them to do so? It's even written right in your bible for you to plainly see. It's not written that these people were just crazy loon's, it's written that these people actually did what they did per god's order's. Even today, in our present day and age, people still do this. So yes, to me the belief in god does equate harmfullness to humanity, as throughout the age's there have been too many violent war's out of the name of god.

Granted, this still doesn't put an end to war itself, as the atheist form of war, if you can even call it that, is more born out of conflict and territory. But how many war's have you heard of being started in the name of evolutionism and big bang or scienctific knowledge? So far, I haven't heard of any. Knowledge and learning doesn't equal war, however, they do provide the tool's.




Could God ordain that the Law of the Simplest Beginning obtains? The definition of God is that he is the cause of any universe that exists. Thus it would be inconsistent with this definition to suppose that he ordains a law that implies there is a universe that begins to exist without a cause.


You could say that ... if you wish to go against thousand's of year's of religous teaching's and interpretations of god. Also this would just be adding to the evolution of religion. As knowledge and society change's, with each succesive change, so do the god's and religous teaching's.




The theist may point to a potential weakness; if God does not exist and the Law of the Simplest Beginning obtains, then we are left with a brute fact. The law explains the singularity, but what explains the obtaining of the law?


I don't see any weakness in current existing theories. Each one does in fact point to a natural cause per chance, but none point to a cause that require's a creator. To me, the latter would be considered weak.




The theistic hypothesis also has an unexplained contingency. This contingency is not God's act of creating the big bang. This act is explained in terms of agent causality; God performs the act and in this sense is the cause of the act. The creative act has a causal explanation in terms of its agent. But there is another event that has no explanation, namely, the event of God causing the creative act. Note that this is not the event of causing the big bang. The event of causing the big bang is a relation of God's creative act to the big bang. This event is caused by God. The uncaused event is the event of God causing his creative act, or, in other words, Of God performing his act of creation. There is nothing that causes God to perform this creative act; God's causing or performing his creative act is free (in the libertarian sense) and thus is an ultimate brute fact.


This make's absolutley no sense. o.0 I can't even make head's or tail's out of what your trying to say here lol.




No GOD never stemed from religion, how Is a relationship a religion?


Really? I disagree. Your monotheistic religion and notion of god wasn't alway's in exitence. Even religion and god can't excape the grips of evolution.




I do not blindly believe from a book Product, as I have stated time before It Is was self discovery


Your belief in god did in fact start from the book. You first picked up the book, read bit's here and there thinking it was gibberish. Then something must've happened that made you change your mind about what that book was saying. If that book never existed, if man never invented the notion of god. Would you still believe in god? How could you when there's no refrence to god? You can't.




Nothing In this world Is logical from your point of view, the very fact that we are here from your point of view Is unlogical.


Then you using your computer today is illogical. The same basic principles that allow your computer to operate are the same basic principle's that allow for a universe to occur naturally per chance. Those same basic principle's also allow for an infinite number of universe's to exist where life is vastly different or non existent. Infinite may sound illogical to you, but it allow's you right now to say so.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Produkt]



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by One_Love_One_GOD

I love the way you try to come across to me as If I hadn't thought about It before or I hadn't realised It before, Ive done my research Ive got the t-shirt, my faith Is built on solid fact. Just as E=MC squared. You need to experiment a bit more product stop being so one sided. Yes It's good to be a realist as am I but youve got to realise why Is IT so hard from your point of view to think hold on a minute Ill give this a chance, yeah It maybe feasable.

Just thought I'd stick my oar in (felt the need to). So your faiths built on solid fact then is it? Would that be the same FACT that even if the whole world believed in the same God and religion there would still remain the possibility that the world could be wrong? You've got to remember that without us non believers to challenge your beliefs the whole world could be under a global religous dictatorship and where would the fun in that be?You want to be a sheep then go ahead. Baaahh !!!!
So Ive got a few questions for you Product.


Why Is It hard for you to believe In GOD?

Sorry mate the onus is on you, how can a non believer prove that something he doesn't believe exists? You need to prove god exists as your the one making the claim.


What makes him so unfeasable and ridicolous to you?

Eh all the supernatural abilities given to a being which the bible contradicts and ultimately says that god doesn't have.


What Is it that actually says Inside your head, nah no way!

Logic and reasoning.


Why Is It easier for you to believe In somthing that makes less sense than GOD.

Sorry did you say less sense. There's nothing about god that actually makes sense. In personally find no need for a god nor find the reasoning to believe in one.



This Is when the word of GOD becomes corrupt, when people manipulate It for there own goals. Tell me one word of christ that would cause harm to those that uphold It's true meaning?

The sayings attributed to Jesus that make Jews out to be sub standard humans and the others where he condones the use and beating of slaves(servants)



Could God ordain that the Law of the Simplest Beginning obtains? The definition of God is that he is the cause of any universe that exists. Thus it would be inconsistent with this definition to suppose that he ordains a law that implies there is a universe that begins to exist without a cause.

The theist may point to a potential weakness; if God does not exist and the Law of the Simplest Beginning obtains, then we are left with a brute fact. The law explains the singularity, but what explains the obtaining of the law?

There is no explanation; the law is contingently true. Does this mean that the atheistic theory leaves us with an ultimate brute fact, the obtaining of this law, whereas theism does not leave us with an ultimate brute fact?

The theistic hypothesis also has an unexplained contingency. This contingency is not God's act of creating the big bang. This act is explained in terms of agent causality; God performs the act and in this sense is the cause of the act. The creative act has a causal explanation in terms of its agent. But there is another event that has no explanation, namely, the event of God causing the creative act. Note that this is not the event of causing the big bang. The event of causing the big bang is a relation of God's creative act to the big bang. This event is caused by God. The uncaused event is the event of God causing his creative act, or, in other words, Of God performing his act of creation. There is nothing that causes God to perform this creative act; God's causing or performing his creative act is free (in the libertarian sense) and thus is an ultimate brute fact.

And then there was Light....

So what your saying is that if anything exists than its because of god? Thats not much of a theory due to the fact that god cannot be proven to exist whether you believe or not.




... Yes Life Is to complicated to happen by chance this Is fact.

Nothing In this world Is logical from your point of view, the very fact that we are here from your point of view Is unlogical.

How is life too complicated to happen by chance? Just because we dont understand doesn't mean it couldn't happen. And whats logical about an omnipotent,omnipresent, omniscient super being with miraculous powers. Doesn't it bring you in mind of Santa, omnipotent as he traverses the globe in a single night, omniscient as he knows if you've been good or bad and omnipresent as we can see in every town at christmas. He also has miraculous powers in that his reindeer slay can fly and he can fit down chimneys. Why isn't Snata real then?



G



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 11:51 PM
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I can kinda understanding what your saying here, but on that same note, would you let your child grow up into adulthood thinking fictional character's such as the easter bunny and santa claus really did exist? Based upon their early childhood experience's and the stories told in book's and by their parent's, these fictional character's did indeed exist in their world. Would you rather teach your kid the truth, or would you rather teach your kid to remain ignorant of the truth? I chose to teach my kid the truth.


I never once even slightly believed In santa or the easter bunny when I was a pup, In fact I find It hard to believe that any child would go Into adult life with the belief of there existence on there own acord. I think we know even as children what Is fantasy and real, I did, we only consider somthing that Is unlikey In exsistence as children through fear.

I wont teach my kids anything when It comes to GOD, I may give my point of view If Im asked or lead by example In a real world point of view, but that's It. But you chose to teach your kid from what your walked path had walked making it hollow, you can't learn from others mistakes, you must learn your self. Otherwise It's just a form of blind faith.




Let's see... For starter's, all evidence point's to a naturally occuring universe and life therein per chance. Where as there's no evidence pointing to a universe or life can not exist unless a god created it. For me to believe in the later just seem's ridiculous. Especially given that the first has evidence and experimental proof that it is true. And the later has evidence of evolution per each succesive change in society and discoevery. So why would one still believe in a god?


Why does man feel the need to take GOD out the eqasion? Why the need for such a cause? If we are just here and stemed from nothing, matter did Indeed form from nothing then what Is reality? What Is the purpouse of consiousness Itself? Why all the hate? If we are the product of endless natural selection i.e survival of the fittest then why the need for knoledge, love, exceptence, these are all unesacary for an Animal to survive right? Which of course If yu believe In Evolution then thats esentialy what we are, animals. Of course youve got to then explain all the gaps In between different stages of evolution In humans as well as all the other animals In the kingdom.

What about a birds wings, did It just develope a useless stubb oneday and then the all so usfull stubb then developed Into wings?

What about the ears and nose?

How did the nose know to smell when It couldn't smell In the first place?

I mean I could go on for ever and ever man, but It's just so ridicolouse I makes me laugh to think that anyone would think it a rational explanation for life.




How is teaching your child the truth considered brainwashing? Children should be taught the truth. We don't teach them green is red and bird's are cat's do we? However, if I taught my children to believe that santa claus was a real person, and they truely came to believe this is so, that would be considered brainwashing. I don't teach them not to learn about religion, but I do teach them about religous history and it's evolution through the age's and how the misconceptions of religion have been proven wrong as we discovered more and more about our universe. So in a sense, I'm not really brainwashing them at all, but teaching them the truth instead.


I am mearly playing by your rules here, going back to the Impresionate mind of the child and all, to Impose your beliefs on your child Is no different weather or not It is religion In origin, your still laying a law down In there minds. Your handicapping them for later In life, a mind must always teach Itself as a whole. You are basicly saying that science denies GOD yet this Is as far waway from the truth as one can get. I say feck religion, It disgusts me. Jesus despised religion, as do I.

Oh by the way do you know the background of santa clause? You should look into It, might interest you a little
Im not talking the common knoledge of Saint' Nick mind you





It hold's true from evidence and experimental proof. What's there of god? A blind faith following and a clear evidence of religous evolution, including that of god. Even the monotheistic religion's of today redefine who god is and what he expect's. Including christianity may I add. Christianity wasn't the first monotheistic religion. Nor was it the first religion, nor was it the first to conceptualize the notion of a higher diety. So in reality, christianity isn't the true religion at all, nor is it's notion and teaching's of god.


GOD Is here with me, he Is not there with you but he knocks, you should answer It might be Importent. I despise blind faith, the ability to learn Is something we all take to the grave. The message of Christ Is set In STONE!!! It has never changed nor will It ever, therefor the true message of Christianity has never change, those that change are corrupting It, how many times do I have to say this to you Product you crazy mofo.




Correct, the moral teaching's themselve's hold no harm. That much I agree with. However, how many people throughout history have proclaimed to be warriors of god? How many people have started war's out of saying that god spoke to them and told them to do so? It's even written right in your bible for you to plainly see. It's not written that these people were just crazy loon's, it's written that these people actually did what they did per god's order's. Even today, in our present day and age, people still do this. So yes, to me the belief in god does equate harmfullness to humanity, as throughout the age's there have been too many violent war's out of the name of god.


Explain to me what you find wrong In GODS justification?

And If you was put In the situation that caused GOD to act what would you do different?

What would be the Ideal world that you would bring your family up In?




Your belief in god did in fact start from the book. You first picked up the book, read bit's here and there thinking it was gibberish. Then something must've happened that made you change your mind about what that book was saying. If that book never existed, if man never invented the notion of god. Would you still believe in god? How could you when there's no refrence to god? You can't.


Every man on this planet seeks GOD. Some reject It and place something else of significance In his place, falling very short of course.




Then you using your computer today is illogical. The same basic principles that allow your computer to operate are the same basic principle's that allow for a universe to occur naturally per chance. Those same basic principle's also allow for an infinite number of universe's to exist where life is vastly different or non existent. Infinite may sound illogical to you, but it allow's you right now to say so.


No because I built this computer, I desighed It how I wanted It, It didn't form on my desk by chance, there for me using my computer Is logical. There Is no chance In the way a computer works my friend, It is all desighned and crafted to the tinest detail. There Is no chance when It comes to computers unless you count Windows XP then the cance of It fecking up Is quite high lol.



posted on Feb, 13 2006 @ 12:13 AM
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Just thought I'd stick my oar in (felt the need to). So your faiths built on solid fact then is it? Would that be the same FACT that even if the whole world believed in the same God and religion there would still remain the possibility that the world could be wrong? You've got to remember that without us non believers to challenge your beliefs the whole world could be under a global religous dictatorship and where would the fun in that be?You want to be a sheep then go ahead. Baaahh !!!!


There Is no dictatorship under the rule of GOD, he holds most high your freewill more so than your current Goverment that you happily reside under. Yes my faith Is build on solid fact other wise I would be blind
You can bahhhhhh all you like mate, but Im a WOLF!!!!





Sorry mate the onus is on you, how can a non believer prove that something he doesn't believe exists? You need to prove god exists as your the one making the claim.


Like I said earlier can you prove to me that you love your girlfriend/wife?

Creation Is enough for me but It goes far far beyond that, there Is plenty of evidence of GOD, but It Is all denied by the common thiest through Ignorence and arogence!!!




Eh all the supernatural abilities given to a being which the bible contradicts and ultimately says that god doesn't have.


The concept of the power that a nuclear weapon yeilds may have once upon a time seemed supernatural yet here we are today with things far more advance than that even.



So what your saying is that if anything exists than its because of god? Thats not much of a theory due to the fact that god cannot be proven to exist whether you believe or not.


Understatment of the week and It's only monday!!



Originally posted by shihulud
Why isn't Santa real then?



Originally posted by shihulud
Logic and reasoning.



posted on Feb, 13 2006 @ 12:25 AM
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I never once even slightly believed In santa or the easter bunny when I was a pup, In fact I find It hard to believe that any child would go Into adult life with the belief of there existence on there own acord.


And yet, this is exactly what your doing. It doesn't even have to be something familiar to us today. Say you raised a child, or gave a child a book teaching about sock demon's for instance. Nearly everyone looses sock's right? Well, this child looses sock's without explanation. The sock is never found again. By experience and teaching's, why wouldn't the kid believe in the sock demon? Hell, I almost believe in the sock demon, as I'm loosing sock's constantly! lol




Why does man feel the need to take GOD out the eqasion? Why the need for such a cause? If we are just here and stemed from nothing, matter did Indeed form from nothing then what Is reality? What Is the purpouse of consiousness Itself? Why all the hate? If we are the product of endless natural selection i.e survival of the fittest then why the need for knoledge, love, exceptence, these are all unesacary for an Animal to survive right? Which of course If yu believe In Evolution then thats esentialy what we are, animals. Of course youve got to then explain all the gaps In between different stages of evolution In humans as well as all the other animals In the kingdom.


No one feel's the need to take god out. We don't even care about god. Screw god. We're just trying to educate ourselve's. We're just trying to learn the nechanics behind the universe and life so that we can better ourselve's. And evolution does explain, as well as neuroscience, why we started becoming the way we are. It wouldn't hurt to look at all the evidence with an open mind rather then scoffing at it as being a way to explain away god. Remember, we don't care about god, he doesn't exist, so there exist no need to take him out of anything.




I mean I could go on for ever and ever man, but It's just so ridicolouse I makes me laugh to think that anyone would think it a rational explanation for life.


Lol, well then that's ignorance for you. There are explanation's for all these thing's as well as evidence. Your failure to learn about them or deny them is just plain ignorance.




I am mearly playing by your rules here, going back to the Impresionate mind of the child and all, to Impose your beliefs on your child Is no different weather or not It is religion In origin, your still laying a law down In there minds. Your handicapping them for later In life, a mind must always teach Itself as a whole. You are basicly saying that science denies GOD yet this Is as far waway from the truth as one can get. I say feck religion, It disgusts me. Jesus despised religion, as do I.


I'm not handicapping them in any way at all. How is teaching them the truth a handicap? Science isn't a belief structure. It doesn't claim absolute knowledge, nor does it claim absolute truth. Religion does, and religion has been proven wrong plenty of time's.. The world's no longer flat thanks to science! Would you rather our children still thought the world was flat? Or that we are so special that everything in the universe revolves around us? These are thing's religion taught! Hell, if we didn't discover the world was round for a fact, even you would be believing the world is flat


Jesus despised organized religion, yet you subscribe to an organized religion's belief's. Wouldn't this be a contradiction?





GOD Is here with me, he Is not there with you but he knocks, you should answer It might be Importent. I despise blind faith, the ability to learn Is something we all take to the grave. The message of Christ Is set In STONE!!! It has never changed nor will It ever, therefor the true message of Christianity has never change, those that change are corrupting It, how many times do I have to say this to you Product you crazy mofo.


But you do indeed subscribe to blind faith. You have no evidence of any kind that would lead you to believe there is a god. The argument that the evidence for him is because we're here is an argument born of ignorance and blind faith. The moral teaching's of god are not anything miraculous. It's just common sense and in some societies, these teaching's were already law around the birth of christianity lol.




Explain to me what you find wrong In GODS justification?


Uh ... lmao

With the power to create so called good and evil, he allowed evil to run rampant only so he could kill off his own creation? All those sinner's he massacered, why doesn't he do so now? Seriously ... he destroy's entire cities in the past for all the sins commited in those cities and yet ... not a single on today? Where the hell's the justification in that? Make's litterally no sense. Oh I think I'll kill these guy's, but let the other's 2000 year's from now get off scott free. I just dont feel like doing it today.




And If you was put In the situation that caused GOD to act what would you do different?


If I had the power's god supposedly has and I was in a situation where my creation didn't believe. Well, firstly I wouldn't hide myself. If any of my creation was starting to sin, I'd appear to them and show myself to them and be like hey look... why kill dude? You trying to piss me off? lol ... If there were any non believer's I'd again make myself evident to them. You say god make's himself evident to me. I say no he doesn't. Nothing's happened in my entire life that would appear to be some innate divine message from a fantasy based god. So how exactly is god showing himself to me?




What would be the Ideal world that you would bring your family up In?


One of truth and morality. A world where the law's are simple enough to follow, yet offer real consequence's if broken. Such as, you kill someone, as repayment for that death, you shall meet your death. If your able to kill, who's to say you won't do it again. Your a threat to society. May sound abit harsh at first, but think about it real hard. Who in there right mind would kill someone knowing that would mean there own death? Not a whole lot. Also, you take the threat out at the start, you won't have the threat comming back later in life. But that's just one law. Other's wouldn't be anywhere nearly this harsh. Except for rappist and such.




No because I built this computer, I desighed It how I wanted It, It didn't form on my desk by chance, there for me using my computer Is logical. There Is no chance In the way a computer works my friend, It is all desighned and crafted to the tinest detail. There Is no chance when It comes to computers unless you count Windows XP then the cance of It fecking up Is quite high lol.


Ah, but go at a deeper level. Did you build the molecule's and atom's that make up that computer? Did you design the physic's behind that computer's operation? Did you design anything that make's up that very computer? These are the principle's behind your computer that also allow for a universe to exist per chance naturally. You didn't design those principle's, they were already in existance.



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