Friedman vs. Lazar

Originally posted by White Chapel

Originally posted by meshuggah1324
From what Stan Friedman has told me he finds what Lazar has said about Element 115 to be BS. He also has issues with his degrees from MIT and Cal Tech. I would have to say it's easy for the government to erase school records if they want to. But the Lazar's Element 115 claims I don't know much about.

I'm interested in what you said here. How would the government erase the records of someone's attendance and/or graduation at a university? I work in higher ed and can't think of any way that someone could be completely erased. There are too many places where someone is mentioned or stored and computer software (like datatel or peoplesoft) won't allow you to erase an entry completely, it's a built in failsafe. I know this because there are unfortunate situations where students die in car crashes and things of that nature and family wants their name erased so mail will stop coming, things like that, and there is no way to do it. The system won't let you. Not to mention the numerous paper copies that couldn't possibly be hunted down like school newspapers, yearbooks, etc.

I don't know exactly how, but I know an agency like the CIA can do just about anything it wants. My mother's friend's husband worked for the CIA and he once told her that the CIA makes people vanish all the time when they want to. So I'd think making school records vanish would be just as easy if not easier than that.

If that were really true he wouldnt have told your mom If the CIA would let people "vanish" all the time they wouldnt be telling that everyone, unless your mother's husband is in a top position at the CIA

MoonScar

Lazar vs Friedman.

Lol, it’s a very interesting argument.

In order to believe Lazar you pretty much have to make a leap of faith as there is no concrete evidence of his claims and at the same time Mr. Friedman only operates with facts which Lazar provides none of which...

But, remember Mr. Freidman discredited Corso for a story with no facts BUT at the same Mr. Don Phillips, Lockheed Skunkworks, USAF, and CIA Contractor verifies Philip Corso's story!! (This is evidenced in the Disclosure Project testimony)

So what can you believe?

All I'm saying is that Mr. Friedman works with facts and when the story doesn't contain the facts it becomes very easy to discredit. This does not necessarily mean it is not a true story. It is only Mr. Friedman's opinion.

As far as the element 115 goes, perhaps Lazar (& others at S-4) got it wrong and it was something else. It stands to reason that beings who are thousands of years ahead of us would be far beyond our table of elements.

Actually Friedman didn't dicredit Corso since there is an abundance of evidence to prove that Corso was who he said he was and worked where he said he worked. The part of Corsos story he had a problem with was the alien technology. At www.stantonfriedman.com... he says "there is no substantiation for his claims".
You'll also find an article re Lazar there.

Originally posted by White Chapel

Originally posted by meshuggah1324
From what Stan Friedman has told me he finds what Lazar has said about Element 115 to be BS. He also has issues with his degrees from MIT and Cal Tech. I would have to say it's easy for the government to erase school records if they want to. But the Lazar's Element 115 claims I don't know much about.

I'm interested in what you said here. How would the government erase the records of someone's attendance and/or graduation at a university? I work in higher ed and can't think of any way that someone could be completely erased. There are too many places where someone is mentioned or stored and computer software (like datatel or peoplesoft) won't allow you to erase an entry completely, it's a built in failsafe. I know this because there are unfortunate situations where students die in car crashes and things of that nature and family wants their name erased so mail will stop coming, things like that, and there is no way to do it. The system won't let you. Not to mention the numerous paper copies that couldn't possibly be hunted down like school newspapers, yearbooks, etc.

the witness protection program .. but in this case its reversed ? .

besides i dont think it would hard at all to erase someone ID .
consider all of the Spy's that wer used by various gov's . there ID's had to be erased and even more so Now a days , with all the Computer tech available .
not to mention all of the computer experts who know how to do stuff like that .
your not a name - your a number in a computer and thats it .

and for Friedman and Lazaar , i like both of them . they are the yin yang of
Ufology .

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Briggs]

Originally posted by tn2k

So what can you believe?

All I'm saying is that Mr. Friedman works with facts and when the story doesn't contain the facts it becomes very easy to discredit. This does not necessarily mean it is not a true story. It is only Mr. Friedman's opinion.

As far as the element 115 goes, perhaps Lazar (& others at S-4) got it wrong and it was something else. It stands to reason that beings who are thousands of years ahead of us would be far beyond our table of elements.

Thats bad reasoning. You say Friedman had no "facts" to begin with? Then you have not read his analysis at all. He checked with Lazar's former schools, teachers, colleages, etc. And they did not know him or had any record of him. Its pretty damn factual that Lazar's name was not in any school's database, to name one thing.

I would like to take back any negitive comments I made about Stanton Friedman in the past.

I emailed him about a book offer he made on Coast To Coast AM last night, because I couldn't find the offer on his web site.

I expected that an assistant or someone else would email me back, but he took the time to email me personally. So I have more respect for him because he takes the time to correspond personally.

I also as well as several others at ATS have had succesful and seemingly sincere correspondance with him on various issues of interest to the UFOlogy community.

My correspondance with him regarding the Joseph Gutheinz is documented in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would have to say his dedication to both the professional and ameteur research community, as well as his frequent appearances in the media, have made me find him to be a true asset to the Diclosure cause.

Much more so than Greer or any of the individuals involved in "The Disclosure Project".

Ive been in touch with Stan just of late Ive been following his work for few years now read all his books recommend them, if you get a chance to get them GET THEM, most amazing read..
you can order them on the stanton friedman website.

Lazaar as alot of you have said seems a educated person but floored in his back ground, things hes come out with just seem to fantastic, right down to the number plate of his car "MJ-12" defo: bit susy their.

Originally posted by Unplugged

Thats bad reasoning. You say Friedman had no "facts" to begin with?

You miss understood me. I completely agree. I meant "Lazar's story doesn't seem to contain all the facts." I guess I just worded it poorly before.



BTW, how many others like Stanton have seriously investigated Lazar's story? Is this really just Friedman vs Lazar or have others dug up any facts?

Originally posted by tn2k


But, remember Mr. Freidman discredited Corso for a story with no facts BUT at the same Mr. Don Phillips, Lockheed Skunkworks, USAF, and CIA Contractor verifies Philip Corso's story!! (This is evidenced in the Disclosure Project testimony)

Can you elaborate on this ?
I vaguely remember Don Phillips from the natl press club briefing.
I don't remember him saying anything specific to back up Corso's claims of
the Roswell crash leading to all these breakthroughs.

I've read Friedman's book Crash at Corona.
Regardless of his personality, I think he is a good researcher and certainly has the scientific, academic, and professional credentials to speak on the matter.
He is an articulate voice for ufology.

Bob Lazar is a complete fraud imo.
The sooner his name drops off the face of the planet, the better.
People like him discredit the field.