100's of Muslims protest Muhammad cartoons in London…But how many protest terror?, page 29
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reply posted on 13-2-2006 @ 06:49 PM by Freedom_for_sum
Originally posted by Beachcoma
Let me venture a guess -- is it a combination of daily indoctrination of 'Israel and America are "the enemy" which needs to pay for their "crimes"' as Nakash has mentioned coupled with America's foreign policy that in their indoctrinated eyes confirms said indoctrination?


Wait!! Wait!! Hld on here. Did I venture into the wrong thread? Lemme see; what's the topic again? Hold on.....

100's of Muslims protest Muhammad cartoons in London…But how many protest terror?

That's what I thought! I'm in the right place after all. We're talking about the Mohammed cartoons; which were created by a Dane and originally portrayed in a Danish publication. But you're saying these riotous Muslims are rioting because they are angry with America?

Originally posted by Beachcoma
And knowing full well how powerful and practically impossible it would be to beat America is, this seems to them somewhat unfair -- perhaps like bullying even? Or outright oppression at worst?


Do you feel oppressed by America Beachcoma? If so; why? What country is America opressing? ...Or are you saying that this is the perception most Arab Muslims have because this is what they are told?

I love being empowered to piss off Muslims!!! Woo Whoo!! I've got some ideas as I'm a decent artist. Unfortunately, I think I would be censored here even if I described my ideas verbally (they're very vulgar). None the less; I think I'll draw them up and put them out on the internet Sorta' stoke the fire; if you know what I mean.


reply posted on 13-2-2006 @ 07:30 PM by Beachcoma
Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Do you feel oppressed by America Beachcoma? If so; why? What country is America opressing? ...Or are you saying that this is the perception most Arab Muslims have because this is what they are told?


Bolded line is exactly what I'm saying. And America's actions in the middle east seems to confirm that belief. I don't feel oppressed by America. They are one of the biggest foreign investors in my country. My dad works for an American aircraft repair company's branch here in this country as a senior manager. He loves that company. I love Burger King. And Hollywood movies.

Intel, the chipmaker, has plants in this country. So does Motorolla I think. And Western Digital. Not to mention pretty much all the major fast food chains like McD, Pizza Hut, KFC, Dominoes, et. al.

Somebody buys our oil. I'm not sure who but I know Exxon has some deal on exploration somewhere off the northeastern coast of the Peninsular in the South China Sea.

No. I have no reason to feel oppressed by America. After all so far your policy with us has been nothing but beneficial trade. We did get upset when you started your palm oil smear campaign and stopped buying palm oil from us, but we're a patient lot. But others may not be so patient.

I only brought up America because I think the Arabs see the west as all the same, all led by America and Israel. You know, sorta like how a lot of people see muslims as all Arabs.

Anyway, back on topic.

[edit on 13-2-2006 by Beachcoma]


reply posted on 13-2-2006 @ 07:35 PM by Nakash
Interesting thing on the cartoons:




That face with the star is covering one of the eyes. I bet whoever drew the cartoon was making an inside joke accusing Muhammed of being the antichrist (he probably knew about the Islamic belief in a one eyed Antichrist).



reply posted on 13-2-2006 @ 08:20 PM by Beachcoma
Found something on topic, I don't know how I missed this.



Islam-West divide 'grows deeper'

Malaysia's prime minister says a huge chasm has opened between the West and Islam, fuelled by Muslim frustrations over Western foreign policy.

Abdullah Badawi, seen as promoting a moderate form of Islam in largely Muslim Malaysia, said many Westerners saw Muslims as congenital terrorists.

[...]

He said mere talk and being nice to one another were not enough, and mutual respect should replace hegemony.

[...]

"The West should treat Islam the way it wants Islam to treat the West and vice versa. They should accept one another as equals," he said.

The BBC's Jonathan Kent in Kuala Lumpur says that if this speech had been made by a firebrand or a radical it might more easily be dismissed as rhetoric, but Mr Abdullah has been avidly calling for Muslims worldwide to embrace education, science, technology and development, while rejecting extremism.

While Western diplomats at the meeting were unwilling to accept a link between Western military intervention and Islamic radicalism, he says, it remains one widely believed across the Muslim world.

Malaysia is currently the head of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference.



Some highlights on the actual speech:


Reject Violence for Peace

Excerpts of the keynote address by Malaysian Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi at the International Conference “Who Speaks for Islam? Who Speaks for the West?”

[...]

I do not suggest for a moment that “Islam” or the “West” are monolithic entities. There is tremendous heterogeneity in both civilisations. Both manifest diverse and sometimes contradictory trends and tendencies. Having made that clarification, allow me to continue to speak of Islam and the West in the way they are normally understood.

Let me state at the outset that while there are a multitude of voices that speak on behalf of Islam on the one hand, and the West on the other, there are certain voices, which I feel, do not do justice to either Islam or the West.

I



The leader of the country heading the Organisation of the Islamic Conference is calling all muslims to reject violence. I bet most of you missed this, didn't you? Even I did.. been reading your western news, I didn't notice this one come out the local news.

Hideously long copy/paste trimmed down to better length. Bad Coma! No Cookie!

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Thomas Crowne]


reply posted on 14-2-2006 @ 10:38 AM by Freedom_for_sum
Originally posted by Beachcoma
Found something on topic, I don't know how I missed this.



In the case of the West, I do not regard them as defenders of Western civilisation those who invade and occupy someone else’s land; those who systematically cause innocent children, women and men to be killed; those who oppress other people and exploit their resources for their own selfish ends; or those who are racist in outlook and bigoted in their religious beliefs. Anyone who seeks to dominate and control, who attempts to establish global hegemony, cannot claim to be spreading freedom and equality at the same time.


Does he really believe that "the west" is doing these things?!?If so, then we will never get anywhere near the territory of mutual understanding and respect. And let's be clear: When he speaks of the "west," he speaks of America. If he, as a leader, truly believes what he wrote in this paragraph; it makes sense then why Muslims have these perceptions of America.

Maybe we should pull back all American companies from foriegn soil because we certainly don't want to be accused of using labor for our own "selfish" needs. Perhaps we should stop using oil for our own "selfish" needs and stop buying it. Of course this means that the money we use to buy that oil will not be going to countries that sell oil.

Maybe we should go back to Kosovo and tell the Serbians that we're sorry and let them get back to their ethnic-cleansing efforts of the Kosovars (who are Muslim).

Maybe we should climb into our hypothetical time-machine and go back to the first Gulf War and tell Kuwait they are on their own; and sit back and watch the "survival of the fitest " take place. And while we're at it: we'll go back to WWII and tell France, Italy, and England, that they, too, are on their own and that their problems are not our problems.

Let's stop the trial and put Saddam Hussein back in rule of iraq because we all know he's such a stabilizing force in the middle east. Then, of course, the Iraqis can "vote" for their new president.

Beachcoma; do you really share the thoughts of the author of this speach?

Dammit Jim!!! I was sucked into going off topic again!!

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]


reply posted on 14-2-2006 @ 10:50 AM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Probably just semantics anyway.


Yeah, I think so.


My question is: What is it about the roiting angry Muslims that renders them incapable of this very basic, yet important, psycological state of mind?


We have been taught since we first entered school and many before that our loyalties should be to our country. "I pledge allegiance to the flag..." We said it every day. We were taught in school how important the circumstances around the founding of our country were - and most of all, that the freedoms we have are to be held dear and protected with everything we have, even our lives.

We have been indoctrinated with very basic patriotism and not just the show of patriotism, I mean the kind of love of country that makes your eyes water. The kind of love of country that a person would kill for. And die for.

And those of us who have gone on to study the Constitution and its Amendments, have a very strong bond to the principles therein. We would fight and die for them.

People in Muslim countries have had about 10 times the 'conditioning' - only about their religion. It's infused in everything they do. From the time they're babies their entire lives are thoroughly devoted to Islam. It's all their is. EVERYTHING takes a second place to it. They love it with everything they are.

And then they are taught that "the West" wants to take it away. The West, with their 'freedom of speech' wants to take away their very heart and soul.

It's no surprise to me that they are offended, worried, concerned, angry, upset. They couldn't care less about this very basic idea. It has no place in their society. Just as Islam has no place in ours. Most people on this board don't understand or agree with owning their own feelings! How are angry, frightened, threatened Muslims supposed to 'get' it?

HOWEVER! We all have to live in this world together and somehow get along. And one religion cannot control the entire world's behavior. In my opinion, and I know many disagree, it's time for people, ALL people to live their lives and stop worrying about what others are saying or doing. It's time for Muslims to practice their religion and stop trying to control how non-Muslims behave.

And it's time for non-Muslims to let them know that we have nothing against their religion, as long as they keep it to themselves and not try to force it on others. I don't like it when ANYone forces their religion on me. Islam is no different.

It's time for us all to realize that Islam is as important to Muslims as Freedom is to us. And as Christianity is to some.

It's time for us all to see that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE is deliberately dividing the people of this world for a REASON. Just as democrats and republicans have been successfully divided over the past few years, it's has now moved onto a worldwide division. There's a purpose behind this and we're the pawns in the game.

It's time to stop allowing ourselves to be played against each other. Nobody has to lose anything. We have our freedoms and they have their religion. The 'threat' is an illusion...


reply posted on 14-2-2006 @ 01:41 PM by Beachcoma
Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Originally posted by Beachcoma
Found something on topic, I don't know how I missed this.



In the case of the West, I do not regard them as defenders of Western civilisation those who invade and occupy someone else’s land; those who systematically cause innocent children, women and men to be killed; those who oppress other people and exploit their resources for their own selfish ends; or those who are racist in outlook and bigoted in their religious beliefs. Anyone who seeks to dominate and control, who attempts to establish global hegemony, cannot claim to be spreading freedom and equality at the same time.


Does he really believe that "the west" is doing these things?!?If so, then we will never get anywhere near the territory of mutual understanding and respect. And let's be clear: When he speaks of the "west," he speaks of America. If he, as a leader, truly believes what he wrote in this paragraph; it makes sense then why Muslims have these perceptions of America.




There is a saying in my country that goes, "he who bites the chilli will taste it's heat."

Basically it means if you know you are not guilty of any wrong-doing, you won't be feeling a reaction to the accusations. If you are, then you will taste the chilli, I suppose. Action-reaction sorta thing.

Anyway, back on topic about the speech, had you had read the whole thing you prolly won't have this knee-jerk reaction that I expected out of you. You would have realised he pointed out there are many great things about your country, not just the nasty stuff that people say. You might even get a realization.

Also what's the point of wishing for a time-machine? To change the past? The past is the past, we've gotta deal with it and move on. The way forward is the future, and in the speech he suggested what can be done to move into the future.

But if anyone was just skimming it to find ammunition, they wouldn't have noticed.

It's natural of someone with a chip on their shoulder to spot just that bit of the speech. He who bites the chilli...

I'm shocked you didn't fall for the other bait in that post... not gonna tell you where it is

TC- Why'd you cut the speech to such a short length? I did my best trying to edit it down to a shorter length.... I figured I should copy and paste the key points there, coz as a link I doubt many would actually click on it to see... even the mainstream media ignored it pretty much.... sigh... why do I bother anyways?

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Beachcoma]


reply posted on 14-2-2006 @ 05:01 PM by AceOfBase
It looks like these protests are having a negative affect on attitudes towards radical muslims in Britain with 81% of Britons saying that foreigners who stir up hatred should be deported and only 17% of Britons see a future in which there is a peaceful coexistance between muslims and non-muslims in Britain.

There is also a lot of sentiment that the police are being too politically correct.

Public anger at Muslim protesters

Earlier this month Muslim protesters in Britain carried placards urging violence and death against those who insult Islam, and celebrating last year’s July 7 London bombings. Asked about those protests, 58% said it made them angry and 76% said the police should have arrested those carrying offensive or provocative banners.

The police and politicians are criticised more generally for not confronting Islamic extremism, with 80% of respondents saying the authorities show too much tolerance of Muslims who urge extreme acts. Two-thirds, 67%, think this is because senior policemen such as Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner, are too “politically correct”.


I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of people calling for an immigration crackdown in Europe, partly spurred by these protests.



reply posted on 14-2-2006 @ 05:29 PM by yanchek
Originally posted by skippytjc
Mc Jihad:



michellemalkin.com


This people don't look like they are protesting or at rage.

It looks like they are having the time of their lives.

Shining happy people burnning.


reply posted on 14-2-2006 @ 05:35 PM by intrepid
I looked at this picture and thought, "Is this Photoshopped?"




I asked my son too and he pointed out the same thing I saw, the guy on the right(not politically ), it just doesn't look right. He also thought that Ronald was as well but I didn't see that.


reply posted on 14-2-2006 @ 05:47 PM by CogitoErgoSum1
Originally posted by intrepid
I looked at this picture and thought, "Is this Photoshopped?"




I asked my son too and he pointed out the same thing I saw, the guy on the right(not politically ), it just doesn't look right. He also thought that Ronald was as well but I didn't see that.



Meh...I don't think so. Here's the before picture.



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