100's of Muslims protest Muhammad cartoons in London…But how many protest terror?

The old crusades straw man.... please, It's clear to everyone here this is about holy war. Why would those Imams fabricate those pictures? Why are Muslims attacking Western/non-Muslim institutions at complete random? Oh, and if Israel DOES take out those bomb labs *good for them*.

Following the 'aliens put here to eradicate mankind' scenario can we just have a quick show of hands as to those posters that feel the world would be better off without any Muslims whatsoever or even think Islam should be eradicated. It'd be interesting to compare rhetoric with the Islamonazis, they may have more in common than they think.

I just think if we want a rational discussion about this that kind of language is totally non productive.

Originally posted by masterp
Would you be tolerant if CNN showed tomorrow Jesus in sexual intercourse with his mother? you wouldn't be tolerant at all.

Uh...let's see. Jesus being depicted having sex with his mother; ...and...the prophet Mohammed depicted in a drwaing with a bomb in his turbine......Yeah, sure, I can see the correlation....NOT! In any case; go ahead and show jesus having sex with his mother. I can simply change the channel!!! No need to burn down buildings and kill people over it.

Originally posted by masterp
If cartoons hurt no one, do you agree with publishing in CNN.com a cartoon with Jesus being a homosexual, or a drug addict, or a pedophiliac? after all, it is a cartoon...

Go ahead!! I don't care!! Depicting Jesus in those roles is no threat to me. It doesn't shake my beliefs. Again; I can simply change the url, the channel, or turn off the tv/computer!! It's MY CHOICE and I'm in control of those things that are important in my life. NOBODY else dictates to me what's important or how I'm going to feel. Muslims need to learn this!!

Originally posted by masterp
Ha ha ha! you have quite an imagination! Islam is certainly not a religion for exterminating humans, at least no more than what Christianity was a few centuries ago. Have we conviniently forgotten the crusades, the endless wars, the slaughterings, all in the name of God? how about the extermination of native Americans (i.e. Indians) by Spanish forces?

There it is folks!! OK Then. Since there is some perceived trasgression on the part of Christians 100's of years ago or because there were so many other such viilians in the past like the Spaniards, Hitler, Pol Pot, the Ottomans, and Jack the Ripper; let's you and me, masterp, just sit back and have a beer, or tea, or whatever; and let's watch the Muslim fundies have their way with blowing up innocents, including women and children!! It's happened before; so why not let it continue to happen now!! Right?!? Is that the point you're attempting to make with that irrelevent statement masterp? Please explain how evil people in the past justifies what's happening today. It doesn't. And your assertion is moot.

Originally by Freedom_for_sum
The behavior exibited by Arab Muslims doesn't seem to be "normal" human-being behavior. They're either aliens or there is a lot of child abuse going on over there!!

Originally posted by masterp
Isn't that inflamatory?

I don't truly believe they are aliens. So I'll retract that statement. That only leaves my accusation that Arab Muslim children are abused.

Let's look at what happens in madrassas. Children are expected to memorize the Qur'an. They sit there for hours.......rocking back and forth........uttering--and repeating--and uttering--and repeating; not stopping, until they've memorized; and memorized; and memorized--until they get it right!! LITTLE CHILDREN!! Children who should be learning to ride bikes; or camels; or whatever!! Who should be playing sports and chasing each other around; and LAUGHING!! Sometimes, these children, after being forced to sit and memorize the Qur'an, are forced into indentured servitude by their families. So poor that garbage picking and manual textiles is more important than learning how to read.

Please show me ANYTHING productive that comes out of arab Muslim states. Can I buy a car made in Saudi Arabia? How about a Syrian cell phone? Can I order a computer online from Libya? What is the common thread in these arab states? OK; OK; You can buy some pretty decent rugs in Turkey. But then Turkey is relatively secular; and probably more important; not part of the middle east. Why must so many Arab Muslims go to other countries to get a decent education in all things besides Islam? There is something very wrong here!!

Inflamatory? Maybe. But it's the truth. And sometimes the truth hurts!! GET OVER IT! And Stop being a victim


[edit on 10-2-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by skippytjc
Malaysia says cartoons of the Prophet is a decleration of war against Islam.

CNN

[...]

I'm calling the BS flag on this comment. That was a one day protest - the keyword here being a protest -- hey freedom of speech! -- and it is not the official government position. The government position is that it is inappropriate, NOT a declaration of war.

See how the spin is at work? Taking things out of context and putting a spin to it... that's why I don't trust the media.

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by skippytjc
Malaysia says cartoons of the Prophet is a decleration of war against Islam.

CNN

[...]

See how the spin is at work? Taking things out of context and putting a spin to it... that's why I don't trust the media.

Who does?
I asked a friend of mine that does not have anithing in common with ATS.
I asked him what do you think of CNN.
The respons was "it's all garbige exept for the informative part , wether, sports etc, the rest are all lies"

I'd say corporate media in general, not just CNN though. If people from both sides of the conflict start realising that they've been had, we'd prolly live in a more peaceful world. Or they might run riot coz they've been had.

It's all BS. The western media asserting that the muslims are out to get you and the Arab media asserting that the Zionists control the world. All nonsense

"Don't look, run! The muslims are coming! The muslims are coming!"

"The Zionist are the puppet masters of the world, Death to the Infidels!"

It's so silly it's no longer amusing

You are right - But that is exactly, what Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said today:

Reuters

"They say that their countries are free but they are lying. They are held hostage by Zionists and the Americans and Europeans should pay for that," Ahmadinejad told a crowd on the anniversary of the 1979 Islamic revolution.

Also, many Arab and Iranian analysts agree that an official hand was visible in violent demonstrations in Damascus and Tehran.

Reuters: STATE-SPONSORED PROTESTS?

"The Iranians were just jumping on the bandwagon," said Ali Ansari, a British-based Iran expert. "They want to galvanise people, keep them focussed on an anti-Western agenda."

With Iran under intense pressure over its nuclear programme, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was looking for a crisis to deflect domestic discontent over the economy, Ansari said.

"He wants to cultivate a sense of siege and Western hostility," he said, describing attacks on European missions in Tehran as the work of a few hundred militants engaged in an "adolescent" reliving of the 1979 seizure of the U.S. embassy.

Syria, also under world scrutiny since last year's killing of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri, may have similar motives for failing to protect foreign embassies.

Originally posted by ubermunche
Following the 'aliens put here to eradicate mankind' scenario can we just have a quick show of hands as to those posters that feel the world would be better off without any Muslims whatsoever or even think Islam should be eradicated. It'd be interesting to compare rhetoric with the Islamonazis, they may have more in common than they think.

I just think if we want a rational discussion about this that kind of language is totally non productive.

I agree with you, but people do not really care about a rational discussion, they only care about feeling good about their stereotypes.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum

Originally posted by masterp
Would you be tolerant if CNN showed tomorrow Jesus in sexual intercourse with his mother? you wouldn't be tolerant at all.

Uh...let's see. Jesus being depicted having sex with his mother; ...and...the prophet Mohammed depicted in a drwaing with a bomb in his turbine......Yeah, sure, I can see the correlation....NOT!

I know the analogy is false, but I can not give you an example of Jesus with a bomb in his hand, because you will simply ignore it. I have to give you something that offends you in order to make you understand the problem better.

In any case; go ahead and show jesus having sex with his mother. I can simply change the channel!!! No need to burn down buildings and kill people over it.

Ok, you do not care about that. How about the american flag with a nazi symbol in it?

Originally posted by masterp
If cartoons hurt no one, do you agree with publishing in CNN.com a cartoon with Jesus being a homosexual, or a drug addict, or a pedophiliac? after all, it is a cartoon...

Go ahead!! I don't care!! Depicting Jesus in those roles is no threat to me. It doesn't shake my beliefs. Again; I can simply change the url, the channel, or turn off the tv/computer!! It's MY CHOICE and I'm in control of those things that are important in my life. NOBODY else dictates to me what's important or how I'm going to feel. Muslims need to learn this!!

You simply do not care enough about religion, that's why.

There it is folks!! OK Then. Since there is some perceived trasgression on the part of Christians 100's of years ago or because there were so many other such viilians in the past like the Spaniards, Hitler, Pol Pot, the Ottomans, and Jack the Ripper; let's you and me, masterp, just sit back and have a beer, or tea, or whatever; and let's watch the Muslim fundies have their way with blowing up innocents, including women and children!! It's happened before; so why not let it continue to happen now!! Right?!? Is that the point you're attempting to make with that irrelevent statement masterp? Please explain how evil people in the past justifies what's happening today. It doesn't. And your assertion is moot.

Many people before me and after me have made the same point: it is not religion that causes the bombings, it is people.

The mistake you do, and many others do, is to think about a religion as the problem instead of thinking bout the people as the problem.

And before you say "I do not do such a thing", let me remind you something George Bush said: "if you are not with us, you are with them". By using this line of thought, if you do not care about Muslims being offended by the "cartoons", then you are ok with it.

I don't truly believe they are aliens. So I'll retract that statement. That only leaves my accusation that Arab Muslim children are abused.

Of course you do not believe they are aliens...it was meant as humour. I can understand that.

But it is illogical to say "arab muslim children are abused, therefore when they grow up they become terrorists". Do you have a study to support your claims? do you have an example?

Let's look at what happens in madrassas. Children are expected to memorize the Qur'an. They sit there for hours.......rocking back and forth........uttering--and repeating--and uttering--and repeating; not stopping, until they've memorized; and memorized; and memorized--until they get it right!! LITTLE CHILDREN!!

And children in America and Europe are forced to learn about "Adam & Eve", the seven days of creation, etc. Maybe they are not forced so strongly, but the trend is to be a reborn Christian these days, isn't it?

Children who should be learning to ride bikes; or camels; or whatever!! Who should be playing sports and chasing each other around; and LAUGHING!! Sometimes, these children, after being forced to sit and memorize the Qur'an, are forced into indentured servitude by their families. So poor that garbage picking and manual textiles is more important than learning how to read

They do! who says they don't! just because you saw an image of children studying their religion, it does not mean these children do not do any other activities.

Please show me ANYTHING productive that comes out of arab Muslim states. Can I buy a car made in Saudi Arabia? How about a Syrian cell phone? Can I order a computer online from Libya?

Out of the 300 and more countries of Earth, there are a few countries (maybe 20 or less) in the world that make cars, cellphones, computers and other things like that. Does that mean that all the people in the countries that do not make material products like that are inferior?

You sound like you are ignorant of history and sociology. You attribute economic facts on biology/race and not on history/sociology.

Let me give you an example to show you how wrong you are:

In the year 500 BC, most of Europe was in primitive state, with little or no written records. At the same time, Greece and Italy had developed a culture 'millenia ahead' of those people in England, Germany and the northen states.

Did that mean that Anglosaxons/Germans/Nordics etc were inferior? 2500 years later and the situation is reversed: European south is poor and does not produce any of the consumer goods you mention, whereas European North is rich and has a production of cars, airplanes, and anything you can imagine.

So in order to see why some parts of the world is like that, do not look in biology for explaining things, but in sociology.

May I also point out that the numeric characters we are using come from Arabs? Before those, we counted with Roman (XII, MCXII etc) and Greek (Alpha, Beta, Gamma) letters.

But then Turkey is relatively secular; and probably more important; not part of the middle east. Why must so many Arab Muslims go to other countries to get a decent education in all things besides Islam?

Turkey is actually 4 countries:

1) Istanbul: a huge city with 20 million people, most of them poor.
2) the western shore up to Ankara: situation similar to rest of western Europe.
3) the east part: primitive state; villages do not have electricity, computers are something they have never seen, and young daughets that had affairs are publically slaughtered by their fathers with the concesus of the local authorities.
4) the Kurdish part: same as (3), but with different culture.

On another note, can anyone tell me:

a) what is humorous in the picture of Mohammed with a bomb in his turban.
b) why those "cartoons" where printed in a newspaper.
c) why all these months there was no problem (the "cartoons" were published in September), and the problem is now.

Originally posted by Nakash
It's clear to everyone here this is about holy war.

Wow. Nakash and I agree. This MUST be big!!
Absolutely Nakash. This is a holy war. NOT because
we instigated Christianity against Islam. Not at all.
Most Christians dont' care and/or don't get involved
with how other people worship. This is a holy war
because the MUSLIMS have declared it against all
who don't worship like them!! You betchya!!

if Israel DOES take out those bomb labs *good for them*.

Yep. They are a nuclear nation and that's the only thing keeping
them alive at this moment. The minute Iran gets the bomb, Tel Aviv
will be gone. The muslims will just consider their dead muslim brethren
in Tel Aviv to be 'martyers'.

The longer the Muslim behavior about these cartoons (and just about
everything else) goes on ... the more I agree with your *good for them*
statement.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
It's all BS. The western media asserting that the
muslims are out to get you ...

So, 9/11, 7/7, Bali, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
(and the list goes on) was all BS? Those weren't
Muslims out to destroy 'infidels'? What happened then?
It was all our imagination? Tell that to the families of the
thousands killed!

The muslims are coming! The muslims are coming!"

Actually it should read -
the Muslims are here, the Muslims are here

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Beachcoma
It's all BS. The western media asserting that the
muslims are out to get you ...

So, 9/11, 7/7, Bali, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
(and the list goes on) was all BS? Those weren't
Muslims out to destroy 'infidels'? What happened then?
It was all our imagination? Tell that to the families of the
thousands killed!

Did I say that the acts of terror/violence was BS? No. Did you assume that I did? Looks that way. See, this is what happen when people quote out of context.

I personally think people who think violence will not beget more violence are deluded.

And no, those weren't all the muslims out to get you. It was a bunch of extremists that are hardly representative of the whole muslim world. You know why I say this?

52. That's the number of muslim majority nations out there. How many countries do these 'muslim terrorists' come from? How many countries are these 'muslims acts of violence' happening? I counted 12-15... I may have missed some unintentionally, the list is on this post if anyone is interested.

Have you heard of classical conditioning? It works like this:-

[1] Ring a bell and give a dog food.
[2] Repeat step 1 several times.
[3] After a while, just ring the bell and watch the dog salivate or go crazy thinking you'll give her food.
[4] Repeat steps 1 and 2 to reinforce the conditioning if the observation in step 3 starts to wear off.

Now check this out, it works on people too! The dogs...
Anyway here we go:-

[1] Assert that muslims are terrorists by sensationalising every act of violence or terror done by people with Arabic sounding names. Also works if you preface the word "muslim" before the word "terrorists"
[2] Repeat step 1 as often as possible.
[3] Watch the terror on peoples faces when you say the word "muslim"
[4] Repeat steps 1 and 2 when the observation in step 3 begins to fade.

Or how about this:-

[1] Sensationalize every Israeli rocket attack or US intervention in the middle east. Use the word "Zionist" liberally in the report. Also works if you put the word "Jewish" before "Zionist" along with footage of rocket attacks, air strikes or dead or injured people because of these acts.
[2] Repeat step 1 as unrelentingly as possible.
[3] Observe the fury in people when you mention the word "Jewish" or "Zionist" or "USA"
[4] Repeat steps 1 and 2 to reinforce the conditioning.

If you would like to do further research on this phenomena, you can start here.

Simple experiment. It's very easily done. You can also apply this principle on a wider scale with mass media. Now you are not just conditioning one dog, you are doing it en masse.

It's like Agent K said in MiB -- "A person is smart, people are dumb, violent animals and you know it."

[edit - a little formatting mistake. Hey how do I make the points in the list in-line? It's spilling out over the numbers ]

[edit on 11-2-2006 by Beachcoma]

More power to Beachcoma, he's presenting his points clearly and succinctly, keeping it balanced and refusing to take a stance and staying polite and constructive in the face of the same hysteria and rhetoric that is being condemned so roundly.

Good on yer!

Thank you ubermunche, I try my best to be fair and balanced. But I have a feeling the points I made will be dismissed or soon forgotten. Don't they say that it's easier to believe a lie than to admit you've been had? If they haven't I'm saying that

Let me get this straight, beachcoma, while Muslims are protesting by the tens of thousands because of cartoons, some real, but the most inflamatory faked, and shown around the world by an iman who was the one using the Pavlovian response and now you are trying to give a simple psyhcology lesson to the rest of us?

It doesn't really seem to be that difficult to find valid reasons for the Islamic world to be in the paper, nowadays. I mean, it isn't as if some Islamic cartoonist drew some silly pictures of Jews in a very bad light and the Judeo-Christian world is burning embassies, or something. Nope. In that case I would have to agree with you. Otherwise, I have to say that it might be that the suggestion is that we look the other way while our homes burn, lest we be accused of picking onthe Muslims.

ok id find it offensive if someone did draw cartoons about my relgious beliefs, but im not going to blow it all out of proportion by demamnding the heads of the "infidels"who drew them and start protesting.Plus you dont see any Americans going crazy and holding protests against the people who burn the U.S. flag. i mean yeah drawing muhammed is like an insult to them and all but its ok to burn American flags right?So come on give it a rest.

Forgetting the protests at the moment, it seem's to me extremely wise for Israel to take out those plants. Like Fly said, the only thing keeping Israel alive at the moment is it's military superiority. Nuclear weapons will open up a whole new can of worms. Also, Iran only allowed inspections in it's plant with p1 centrifuges. It's other secret plant has hundreds of thousands of the p2 kind which can enrich up to 10 tonnes of high grade Uranium per year. It seem's to me that a nuclear Iran could perfectly well emerge next year if allowed.


Beach, operant or classical conditioning of the type you mentioned may work fine with rats, but it's far from perfect with humans. Bad analogy.

[edit on 11-2-2006 by Nakash]

Originally posted by BigTrain

If the holy land and allah are so great, then go live in the desert and leave us alone! Im telling you guys, if we dont end this now, its gonna get to the point that I mentioned above. The one country you dont want to piss off is the US of A baby!

Train

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 3-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Absolutely right, and I reckon probably 90% plus of the UK population think the same too.

I tell you why they won't go back and live in the desert, two reasons;

1. No freedom of speech
2. The social security isn't so good and they might actually have to work for a living instead of sponging off the UK taxpayers.

[edit on 11-2-2006 by Englishman_in_Spain]

Originally posted by Beachcoma

It's all BS. The western media asserting that the muslims are out to get you

"Don't look, run! The muslims are coming! The muslims are coming!"

I think you may need a reality check... The Muslem wordl as been at it for Thousands of years... I'm sorry but you need to check up some history.


Anyhow, i could care less if their coming or not, because whatver they want, they wont get it from me... one thing i know this "Outrage" only started after Iran annouced their going for nuclear weapons... Muslem nations feel they got their backs covered, so they can go for the "money"

Man... these abusive protesters are so lukcy i'm not a President from some country....

Protests only from 2 PM to 4 PM...on Tuedsay and Thursdays anyone who "trips on the rule" , send out the peroxide trucks!

originally said by materp

In the year 500 BC, most of Europe was in primitive state, with little or no written records. At the same time, Greece and Italy had developed a culture 'millenia ahead' of those people in England, Germany and the northen states.

Did that mean that Anglosaxons/Germans/Nordics etc were inferior? 2500 years later and the situation is reversed: European south is poor and does not produce any of the consumer goods you mention, whereas European North is rich and has a production of cars, airplanes, and anything you can imagine.

So in order to see why some parts of the world is like that, do not look in biology for explaining things, but in sociology.

May I also point out that the numeric characters we are using come from Arabs? Before those, we counted with Roman (XII, MCXII etc) and Greek (Alpha, Beta, Gamma) letters.

Italy doesn't produce Cars or planes?
Really?

You might want to do some research on that and you should also do some research on those Hindu numerals (not Arabic numerals) that we are using today.

The Arabs may have had a great civilization at one point in time but most of that predates Islam.

The fundamentalists, like the ones protesting the cartoons, may have been responsible for the downfall of their civilization.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

originally said by materp

In the year 500 BC, most of Europe was in primitive state, with little or no written records. At the same time, Greece and Italy had developed a culture 'millenia ahead' of those people in England, Germany and the northen states.

Did that mean that Anglosaxons/Germans/Nordics etc were inferior? 2500 years later and the situation is reversed: European south is poor and does not produce any of the consumer goods you mention, whereas European North is rich and has a production of cars, airplanes, and anything you can imagine.

So in order to see why some parts of the world is like that, do not look in biology for explaining things, but in sociology.

May I also point out that the numeric characters we are using come from Arabs? Before those, we counted with Roman (XII, MCXII etc) and Greek (Alpha, Beta, Gamma) letters.

Italy doesn't produce Cars or planes?
Really?

Southern Italy does not. All the car companies are at North. Italy is two separate countries actually...just ask any Italian.

You might want to do some research on that and you should also do some research on those Hindu numerals (not Arabic numerals) that we are using today.

Well, I've never heard that the numerals we are using today are Hindu...care to share some links?

The Arabs may have had a great civilization at one point in time but most of that predates Islam.

No. Great works of art/literature/science came out of Arabia. During the Europe's middle ages, it was Arab scholars that maintain Greek and Roman scriptures which were later rediscovered by western Scholars.

There is also great poetry coming out of that era.

The fundamentalists, like the ones protesting the cartoons, may have been responsible for the downfall of their civilization.

The problem with some of the posters in here (and I suspect with most of the population) is that they identify foundamentalism with Islam...but that is simply not true. The current events are not about "war of civilizations" but about serving self-interests from both sides.

I will ask again, since no one cared to answer my question:

1) why were the cartoons published?
2) what exactly is humourus about them?
3) why turmoil is now? the cartoons were published in September.