Palestine Just Killed Itself

Originally posted by AceOfBase
So what happens to the hundreds of millions per year in funding that the PNA receives?

About 10 million euro per month comes from the EU so will they put and end to that now that Hamas is part of the PNA?

I think the U.S. and most, if not all, European countries will cease funding the Palestinians unless Hamas changes its published policy stating it wants the destruction of Israel.

All you need to see that this is a disaster in the making is to Google Hamas.... just check out these pics I found. Guess it shows you that democracy just doesn't work.... or maybe it just means we are doing ours wrong. lol.

Sorry, I don't feel like uploading these myself, so I'm just linking, rather than hotlinking the images into this post. Anyway, here are several pictures of the new crazy looking leader (I think??), and Hamas in all their KKK-Ninja greatness.

That's one crazy guy...

Leader compared to Gandalf

Hamas: The Kamakazii KKK-Ghost members in suicide-bomber leiderhosen.

A more military-looking Hamas. Much more intimidating than ghosts

And now for the Ninjas:

1

2

3

One more hilarious KKK-ghost-suicide-bomber pic.... Are they dancing in Bear-Foot slippers???? Definately a "forum pic" in the making. THEY ARE IN SUICIDE BOMBER GEAR MAKING PEACE SIGNS. WTF

I only wish I could dress this elite

Note guy in Hamas hat with gun. Note several dead people in his general vicinity.

That would be a sweet Rap group, but not a political group

Okay based on the Hamas charter posted a couple of questions.

Hamas was a terrorist organization. In order to fight them they became part of the war on terror. This war had no borders, etc but was the fight against an organized crime group backed up with attacks civilians.

Now Hamas is a legal government. Does that mean a declaration of war would now be legal and potentially recognized by other countries? Can Israel now legally declare war on Palestine? If they did, wouldn't the US also declare war in order to back up it's ally?

Did it just become easier to deal with Hamas? Are we looking at all out war based on this change?

Israel will never be defeated. Since 1948, four wars have been mounted against Israel by the surrounding Arab states (1948, 1956, 1967, 1973) and each time Israel won. Why? They are God's chosen people..and when God says "it's your land..." I think He means it.

The Jewish community of Israel has inhabited the same land it's on for over 3000 years. Hamas, in any way, shape or form, will never succeed in their "jihad" against Israel. In essence, they are leading their own to slaughter.

Will it get bad over there? Yep, I am certain of it. But there has to be a fundamental change within Jerusalem, in order that the Temple can be rebuilt, the daily sacrifice re-instituted, and the end of days to begin.


...and Jesus said "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. "

I thought the purpose (so i hear) of this war is to spread Democracy.

If thats the case, then they did well for themselves and their bed is made.

How will Bush handle this? He's constantly saying he wants each country to be run as a Democracy. Well, Bingo. They have it.

It will be interesting to find out how Mr President feels about this one.

Dubya is on CNN right now. I can't imagine he is just going to stay silent on the issue. I guess we'll see though. The smart thing to do would probably be to keep his mouth shut though, since it only involves Israel at this point, and we don't even know what Hamas is really going to do yet.

I guess things will play out in time.

EDIT: He's trying to play it off as a "wake up call" to the government there or something, and says "You can't support peace and war at the same time". Thanks for the insight into that one... lol.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by Yarcofin]

We need a smiley that shakes its head.

He's already working on a "solution" to this problem.

Here we go again. We're going around the globe.

Originally posted by dgtempe
We need a smiley that shakes its head.

dg, we already have one!

:shk: :shk: :shk: !

Well there is nothing he can really do except make vague statements until Hamas actually DOES something, like come out and declare war on Israel, etc. As far as I know, the actual government hasn't completely formed yet, and it's not like Hamas is going to be a big dictator over the entire country. Seems like they are going to have a parlimentary system from what I see.

It's also important to remember that the whole destruction of Israel thing is only one of their goals.

I do think if the US interferes with this one though, several muslim countries are just going to finally form a coalition and attack the US on their own soil. Not just terrorist attacks here and there, I mean all out war. If you keep angering more countries one by one, you better be ready to defend yourself. In my opinion, the US is trying to become an empire like England or Rome, and it is going to fall if it tries to take on too much at once. Even if Israel is being attacked and they are justified.

Looks like we're building up for the biggest Holy War of all time. It's a shame that such similar religions can divide people so much.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by Yarcofin]

Remember Congress has designated Hamas as a terrorist organization and has made it ILLEGAL for the President to deal with them. Thus, if the President has any contact with the new Palestinian Authority government, he could be IMPEACHED!

Originally posted by Yarcofin
Well there is nothing he can really do except make vague statements until Hamas actually DOES something, like come out and declare war on Israel, etc. As far as I know, the actual government hasn't completely formed yet, and it's not like Hamas is going to be a big dictator over the entire country. Seems like they are going to have a parlimentary system from what I see.

It's also important to remember that the whole destruction of Israel thing is only one of their goals.

WOW!!!!!!!

I guess it's ok to let people you don't know die first before we take action, maybe you would think differently if you were living in Isreal and the threat of death was on you everyday.

Hasnt the suicide bombings and murders by hamas shown you enough already?

Train

Thus, if the President has any contact with the new Palestinian Authority government, he could be IMPEACHED!

Wow, you're so right. If Bush trades or even communicates in any way to a terrorist-based government, he is essentially committing treason.

But then again, we have already given Osama weapons on money when he was on our side fighting Russia, and a very similar thing with Saddam as well. Although that was before-hand

WOW!!!!!!!

I guess it's ok to let people you don't know die first before we take action, maybe you would think differently if you were living in Isreal and the threat of death was on you everyday.

If you want to take out every possible threat before it starts attacking, why not just launch the nukes already?

Funny how Americans say things like that, but before 9/11 they would have never cared or taken action either. It really is different when it hits you at home, isn't it? An I agree. Israel has this stuff happening on a weekly basis.

I think it is important that we look at things from THEIR side, from their eyes, before we start retaliating. Something is pretty wrong if a country thinks a terrorist group is the best choice, to begin with. That is the root of the problem that we should be getting at, not destroying them and angering them more.

Also, is Hamas 100% a terrorist organization, or only an armed wing of it? Does it have any legitimite parts to it?

"Hamas" is also the former name of the Movement of Society for Peace, a political party in Algeria.

-Wikipedia.org

[edit on 26-1-2006 by Yarcofin]

a group that is attempting to take back their nation is considered terrorists...

i wonder, what makes them terrorists? guerrilla fighting? suicide bombing? or is it because they're enemies of our allies?

palestine has just as much claim to the land of israel as the nation of israel, but israel won't allow palestinians into the government because they want a jewish state.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Thus, if the President has any contact with the new Palestinian Authority government, he could be IMPEACHED!

Bush is having a live news conference right now covering all subjects which include answering questions on Hammas and he has made it very clear several times that the US will not recognize Hammas as a government until it renounces terrorist/terrorism.

Why Reporters are so dumb it takes them several times to understand what he said the first time is beyond me :shk:

Ok, I know I am in the minority who believe that the US and Israel are wrong in their quest to wipe out most of the world...

Firstly the US gov is calling on countries to stand up for themselves and elect, democratically, a leader for the people.

Now, when the Palestinians do exactly that, and elect their chosen leader, we will see many people with a problem with this.....why?

I'll tell you why, and it is the same reason that the US in the past have covertly removed governments and various leaders in foreign countries.........

......because they cannot be controlled by America. If America cannot control these countries, then America is afraid.....

Iran cannot be controlled by America.....solution:remove Iran from the picture.
Syria cannot be controlled by America....solution:remove
etc, etc, etc...

This is my opinion..I am not America bashing, I am just stating my view on the current events being played out on the world stage and I am severely worried at the direction that the events are heading. Not only may we see the instability of the Middle East deteriorate, but we may also see foreign powers, ie US and UK, become involved, which WILL inflame the whole situation. I doubt there would be so much conflict if there was no foreign presence in the Middle East.

Finally, to the comment about Ireland.....let me say this..

the IRA declared war on the UK government, and waged a war for decades. The world did not fall apart, no Nuclear weapons were used, and no one got wiped off the map.
The IRA had a political "wing", ie Sinn Fein, who negotiated with the British and Irish Governments for many years while the bombs were going off and people were being killed. Officially the British would never talk to a "terrorist" organisation, but they did for years till a compromise was found. Long story short..........IRA ceased fire, disarmed, Sinn Fein went more maistream, compromises were reached, and now the landscape has changed dramatically.

If this can happen in one place where religion was the cause, it can happen with HAMAS and Israel.....both need to be more compromising, and forget the hard line aproach.

Hamas is a known terrorist group. It has claimed responsiblity for the death of many Israeli. Now that Hamas is the ruling party any terrorist attack on Israel will be seen as sanctioned by the new Palestinian government. It will not be as before when Hamas would attack and the Fatah government would condem the attack. How can Hamas condem itself? So, what can this possibly mean? It means that Israel will see any future attacks as an act of a hostile government and as an act of war!
Just what we need.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
THAT Nygdan is exactly right. So much for the peace process.

Hamas IS at war with Israel.
Indeed, its over. Abbas is still president, and people on all sides will use that to say that there's still a chance to avert all out war. Once the first bombing occurs and hamas claims responsibility, it's undeniable though. Abbas may as well step down, its clear that the people have no interest in Fatah. At least then he'd be the guy who can work somethign out under the New Occupation.

As far as giving up gaza, the peace process has really only seen actual movement with sharon, who singularly decided to pull the settlers out; they were just targets in a wasteland, and build the wall. There's nothing to gain in having settlements in the west bank and gaza anyway. The yehudis will just now be able to use those territories as operating theatres for their army now.

The palestinians are going to be almost like the Helots in sparta before long.

At least this is all timing out nicely with the Iran War. It'll be interesting to see what the Syrians do now.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i wonder, what makes them terrorists?

Targeting civilians.

celticnial
Now, when the Palestinians do exactly that, and elect their chosen leader, we will see many people with a problem with this.....why?

I don't have a problem with it. No one should. Its democractic, the palestinian people want hamas as their government. Why should anyone stand in their way?
Of course, now, since the government is an organization that is at war with israel and engaging in attacks against it, the yehudis have no reason to hold back when fighting them. They can, for example, assasinate the Palestinian Prime Minister as a legit target, or bomb whatever Assembly buildings they have. Its called "Open Warfare", and the Palestinians are going to get trounced, for, what, the third, fourth time? You'd think that they'd learn. They keep agigtating for war, but then loosing that war when it comes, and then complain about having lost the war.

Bah. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and Arafat didn't bother to build any schools.

Originally posted by celticniall
Ok, I know I am in the minority who believe that the US and Israel are wrong in their quest to wipe out most of the world...

..I am not America bashing, ...

ummmmm.....yeah, you are!

you are over-simplifying the issues at hand, and then twisting the view so it looks like America and Israel are ridulous for the position they take.

We are afraid of Iran because they are trying to possess the ability to develop nuclear weapons and arm the entire Islamic world with them. We are afraid, because we have seen "martyrs" walk into a crowded bus/cafe/market with explosive devices and kill many. We are afraid because nuclear weapons will destroy 100's of thousands if not entire sections of the globe. You should be afraid too.

Unless you are one of them. What say you, celticniall?

I must say that this is some juicy news, i think there is going to be some big issues that will be dealt with becasue of this election. Honestly i feel like the stage has been set, now this is the pin drop. How the rest of the world will react to this is going to be stunning.
Will HAMAS be recognized by the rest of the world as the leaders of palestine? Will israel do a pre-emptive strike?

All in all, this shows how the war in iraq/afganistan has biten the bush administration in the ass. Also it shows how democracy does not work.