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Originally posted by Daedalus3
almost caught up with western forces?
You've got to be kidding me..
Originally posted by Daedalus3
fully working/operational AESA for starters?
What about a/c JDAM munitions?
off-bore sight a2a missiles?
The PiLi-8 is a Chinese licensed copy of the Israeli Rafael Python-3 infrared-homing short-range air-to-air missile (SRAAM)
Source
Therefore China integrated the Python 3 IR seeker with an indigenous missile airframe to produce the PL-9 for export market.
Source
Originally posted by Daedalus3
You mean PL-8 aka Python-3?
PL-9 again with Python-3 IR seeker?
AESA on fighters..The AWACS program also ain't doing to well with that unfortunate crash.
The T-90 is actually the T-72BM with a new name. A sheep in sheeps clothing. This was done to improve the image of the T-72 after all the losses of T-72 in combat like chechnya and iraq. While the parts in both tanks is similar in design but are not compatible. The T-90 ustilzes a lot more advanced technology and a better sensors and is all round superior. But it is one example of a old tank that has just been modifled to seek export orders.
The Su-35 is a post-soviet design which is one of the most capable fighters ready for export and a very very cheap price compared to her comtempories like the Eurofighter or the rafale has not seen one sale. The russian airforce has not shown interest in buying this fighter ethier. While her predecessors like the Su-27 and Su-30 have been ranking up huge export sucess while being and less bang for a than a Su-35 and being less advanced they still are not being showned interest in.
While again the more upper class markets are still a western owned region, like The middle east, Europe and Asian countries which rather opt for western equipment rather than newer russian equipment.
The russian defense industry are now surving on export orders and to be more competitive they need more RnD funding to be more competitve when the western onsluahgt led by the Americans with their F-35 enters the aircraft market. The russians at this point do not have a prototype to match the F-35 on a cost effectivness graph. The mikoyan MFI 1.42 projet led to the 1.44 aircraft. While being claimed to be a advanced platform it did not finish development and was cancelled because of the lack of funds. While the new project PAK-FA has not even finished the design phase. It has hugley impossible schedule to perform(first flight in 2010). And according to media reports has only recieved something like 1/10th of the projected funding needed.
The plan is to be a heavy fighter like the F-22 but only cost as mush as the F-35. The downfall of the 1.42 project was the lack of funding on the wooping 70million price tag. Here is the projected image of the PAK-FA
In reailty this is a Make or break project for russias avation industry. When the F-35 starts mass production you will be seeing the sales of the Soviet era fighters down like a stone. If this suceeds then it will be a major benifit for russia as the F-35 as of now is still on the protected aircraft list with only selected nations getting them.
Her naval ships are just re-vamped soviet designs which are still none the less are best in catergory. But russia has not designed a major post-soviet vessel.
In reality the russian economy has improved and has registered a straight 6%+ growth for the last 7 years. But this figure is still only at $1.535 trillion. compared to frances $1.816 trillion, Germanys $2.446 trillion Indias $3.678 trillion chinas $8.158 trillion and americas $12.37 trillion . Its economy cannot fund major military projects and keep its economy growing. Its defence budget is about 1/10 of americas and the JSF project will cost more than the russians can spend. You need economic growth along with RnD spending to compete and the russians have the protentional for it but it will take time. According to some reports the Big american compaines like Boeing Microsoft and lockheed martin brought them over and now are american scientist.
Even if the russians go to india or china for funding they dont want to be the second fiddle and will want part of the contract or a joint development which leads to less money the russians make off exports. But the indians have got their MCA and other things they have control of plus american technology access so would they want to fund a huge program if they are already offered the F-35?
China was never a player in the PAK-FA or MFI project and only wanted to buy technology nd not to buy actual aircraft. Recent reports by chinese avation sources have produced photos that claim china is producing her own F-22 class aircraft so the PAK-FA wouldn't be a big possibilty. Her airforce is not looking to russia to buy upgrades for her russian aircraft and her navy is building her own ships and the eariler russian purchases which were rumoured to be stop gaps have been proven by the lack of future purchases to only be stop gap meaures.
So will the russian defence industry survive?. Will it just be selling designs and contacts instead of pyhiscally exporting thieir own aircraft?
Originally posted by iskanderNot entirely correct. Even though T-90 is based on the standard T-72 chassis, everything including the power plant, transmission, turret, fire control, main gun, etc are of next generation.
Later T80 models offer both gas turbine AND diesel power plants.
A lot of variables here, main one being their goal of fully replacing the fleet with 5th gen gear, and it's exactly what they are set to do by 2012.
Of all the military branches, the Russian Air Force is in the most difficult situation on both a moral and physical level, as the obsolescence of the fleet continues; now standing at approximately 2200 warplanes, most manufactured in the 1980’s.20 In the meantime, the Air Force will receive only two new planes in 2005 – one Tu-160 strategic bomber,21 assembled from Soviet era components, and the first serial production of the next generation advanced jet trainer, the Yak-130.22 Concerning modernization programs at the end of 2004, the 23rd Fighter Air Regiment in Dzemga in the Far East received the first seven modernized Su-27SM fighters, and in 2005 they should receive the delivery of seven to ten such aircraft.23 In other words, at this rate the complete modernization of the Su-27 fleet alone (about 350 fighters) will take anywhere from 30 to 40 years
The whole "lack of funds" thing is nothing more then propaganda. Russians traditionally funded their military even if the people were starving to death.
Russian navy gets a sinking feeling
The Russian navy is to scrap one-fifth of its fleet because of a chronic shortage of funds.
She adds that a decade or more of chronic under funding means that much of the fleet is now unseaworthy - more of a junkyard, as one analyst put it, than a navy.
In an interview with the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda, Admiral Kuroyedov said the navy was receiving just 12% of the budget it needed to keep its ships afloat.
Just look into the majority of their programs. They have been continuously canceled only to be pushed into production anyway.
Look up the state of Russian economy and the total scale of their arms modernisation programs.
PAK-FA was canceled because it was still a 4++ gen airframe
Fifth-generation aircraft: national project without financial support
As far back as April 2002, a government commission chaired by Prime Minister Mikhail Kasyanov announced the selection of Aviation Military-Industrial Complex Sukhoi’s offer in the competition for Russia’s fifth-generation fighter. Since then, India has been mentioned time and again as a development partner, while another idea was to bring in aviation companies from Belarus and Ukraine. So far, none of these countries have agreed to participate in the Sukhoi project. China also has made it clear it was not interested in participating.
Sukhoi director-general Mikhail Pogosyan noted last summer that the design bureau had already spent about US$100 million of its own funds on the project. He said the government had promised to boost funding for the fifth-generation aircraft in 2006, but so far that promise has not been fulfilled.
In July last year, Pogosyan invited European companies to participate in the fighter’s development, but their response was muted to say the least, and Sukhoi officials appeared to come to terms with the harsh reality that they would have to go it alone.
F-35 is not a silver bullet, and even a deeply modernised MiG-21 will hold its own.
Chinese are modernising there MiG-21 fleets with Russian/French systems. That is exactly why they chose to pay through the nose for the license to build there own SU-27s instead of buying them cheap.
allocating over 5 trillion rubbles for deep modernisation of Russian armed forces between 06 and 2015.
Russian economy growth can not be judged by Western standards.
Originally posted by Russian soldier
What the F*!?!??!?!?!??! Who the hell tagged this thread as Russian junk??!?!??! WTF!?!?!??!?!
Originally posted by intelgurl
Thanks Iskander for a more balanced perspective on this subject.
Originally posted by Russian soldier
Who the hell tagged this thread as Russian junk
Thanks Iskander for a more balanced perspective on this subject.
Regarding the Russian defense aerospace industry; Putin's recent decision to merge all Russian aerospace assets into a largely state-owned entity, known as the Unified Aircraft Corporation, (or "OAK" in Russian) will definitely change the face of Russian aerospace defense production. (that's right, no more MiG, Sukhoi, etc)
This re-nationalization of the private sector may actually prove - at least initially - to be bad for marketing, but bringing all of Russia's aerospace R&D brain power under one roof could produce some technologically cutting edge products at affordable prices in the not too distant future.
And that is still a old dog with a new bone. It still a old dog and developed for yesterdays war. My intial post was stating was the russian industry was upgrading old designs instead of designing new ones. Even if you change the trasnmission, fire control, main cannon it will still be the same tank with a set of tools to use. Still better but not a new tank
What this means is, the russians are not putting money in RnD research which leaves them behind the other forces in development and thus in export markets because their trying to export older technology
Stealth is the key and the units being linked to a network. All this talk of AI and unmanned craft is the reality and the russians are investing in older technology
When forces around the world see a "upgraded" T-90 getting pounded in the field by new generation weapons exports will drop. More so when warfare starts to change so it does not include a MBT in it. Once exports faulter than thats it for exports and any possible money for RnD. Russia at this stage is not going to get rich from this boom. Notice how i link economy into military developments.
All the things you mentioned beforehand had already said by me in the intial post. One example of just posting and not reading carefully. Sure at this momment the T-90 might be a very capable tank which i already actknowledge, In my post i said it was a example of just upgrading a older tank just to seek export orders
Apart from the fact there is no flying prototype in service, it still leaves the money factor. The russian defence budget is 20billion dollars and will not be able to grow to 100 billion or even 70billion a year since economic growth will no able you to spend that much on defense. Your going to spend 70million a piece on a plane when your army equipment is rusting alway and your navy does not even re-semble a proper army?. Come on man, 2020 would be a possible target to finish upgrading a fleet without a prototype even flying.
Apart from that, they are not replacing the fleet but moderising the fleet. The 350 odd Su-27 are planned to be modernized into the SM standard while the Mig-29 is being moderized into the SMT standard. Where are these "5th" planes going to go or the funds in which they will be puchased in while the whole russian force is in modernisation
"The whole lack of funds argument is the truth. or are you going to find a article which mentions there is no problems with the russian armed forces?
I like the word traditionally. Does it refer to communist "soviet union" or russia since defence spending is a new for a modern government. Russians have not "tradtionally" being starving so they could fund their military. They were forced to because of the governemnts policies. Thus the end of communism because people did not want to "starve" to pay for weapons. Also if the russians spent anymore than 70billion dollars a year on their military it would collapse because it almsot equates to 10% of their GDP. North korea spends something like 20% of their GDP on defence while not actually fighting a war like the russians are.
So, stealth Yak-141 a super sized carrier (possiblity four), anything else i should add to my "wheres the proof list"?. If your going to claim something like that you should actually show a picture or proof