9/11 Pentagon: The Mystery of the Moved Taxi

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: waypastvne

A picture is worth a 1000 words they say, uses about 3000 times the memory but worth every byte

I noticed a slight variance compared to the numbers I got from the map Ruby posted and it's due to the angles being measured from the centre of the bridge whereas the map shows her location approx 23m past the centre of the bridge. Not a big deal at all but being a few car lengths further back makes it easier for moving a little further forward before crossing lanes to get onto the off ramp to the right.

It also improves her view of the plane crossing the road

Oh come on Tassie!!!!
You know you are floundering here!

You are locating Penny Elgas relative to the official flightpath, to make it RETROSPECTIVELY "improve her view of the plane crossing the road" and to "make it easier for her to move further forward before crossing lanes"!!!

Elgas herself, and also Mike Walter who was behind her, both said that she BACKED UP, and tried to go the wrong way, so she was already further south on the highway than she was at impact, before leaving the scene.

Then, she was caught out in some fuzzy recollections. She claimed to have been so terrified that she left the scene ASAP, even before the other traffic had started to move.

This is not true.
Impact was at 9:37:46.
Jason Ingersoll's photos DSC_0416 and 0417 show Penny Elgas standing on top of the overpass, a little north of the overhead sign, along with Mike Walter, possibly Yvette Buzard, and several other witnesses, at 9:52 and 9:54.

So Penny Elgas stayed there on site for at least 17 minutes!

At 9:52 the traffic was moving forward.
By 9:54 it was virtually cleared.
She could easily have driven away before 9:54, but she chose not to.
There was no stationary car in shot which might have been Penny's, so her car must have been still parked further north of the overhead sign, where she left it.

But Penny Elgas stayed there on top of the overpass.
Was she watching the Pentagon?
No, unlike all the others, she was turned away, looking in the direction of ... LLOYDE ENGLAND and HIS TAXI!
So she would have some interesting recollections there, about which nobody has apparently asked her.
However Jeff Hill's phone interview has several breaks where material has been cut out.
Who knows what she really told him?

Locating Penny further south as you try to, blocks her view of the impact site, and we know how detailed her description of that was, no matter what caused the explosion.
She must have had a clear view, which means that she MUST have been further forward on the decline from the overpass, but slightly south of the off-ramp.
Not necessarily, though, as we don't know how far she managed to back up.

CIT shows on some of their videos, exactly how far north of the overhead sign a witness necessarily must have been, to have had a view of the ground floor impact site, unimpeded by trees and the stone wall of the bridge, and safety rails.

"The USA TODAY PARADE" shows footage taken on 9/11, driving across the overpass.

youtu.be...
@ 07:36.

So, she was directly beneath the OFFICIAL FLIGHTPATH, where the plane ALLEGEDLY crossed the highway.
And yet she saw the plane fly
From her LEFT,
To the side of the Citgo,
STRAIGHT across in front of her,
The entire plane visible in front of her from wingtip to wingtip,
About 5 car lengths ahead of her,
High enough that she could see beneath both wings,
About 50 to 80 feet AGL.

Remember the old saying ...

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
Arthur Conan Doyle

a reply to: RubyGray

Ruby what hit the pentagon.

Again

a reply to: RubyGray

Like it or not. People saw a large jet knock into crap and hit the pentagon.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

Again...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

I picked the below quote for:

One, the person was in standstill traffic

Two, the person is stated “The plane was flying low and rapidly descended, Washington said, knocking over light poles“

Three. It’s a lesson in perspective. We know the jet only hit a low concrete wall with an engine. But, because of perspective, it looked liked it bounced off the ground to the witness

Four. The account is fresh after 9/11.

Boston Globe

By Robert Schlesinger and Wayne Washington, Globe Staff, 9/12/2001

archive.boston.com...


Rodney Washington, a systems engineer for a Pentagon contractor, was stuck in stand-still traffic a few hundred yards from the Pentagon when the American Airlines jet roared overhead from the southwest.

''It was extremely loud, as you can imagine, a plane that size, it was deafening,'' Washington said.

The plane was flying low and rapidly descended, Washington said, knocking over light poles before hitting the ground on a helicopter pad just in front of the Pentagon and essentially bouncing into it.

Sad to see you resorting to an intellectually dishonest temper tantrum.


What was that about gurneys at the pentagon?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

Remember how talking in absolutes makes you less credible?

You

He claimed that they were "pushing patients on gurneys". Gurneys are wheeled trolleys, which were not used that morning.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Then you doubled down?

originally posted by: RubyGray
a reply to: neutronflux

EVERYTHING I claim is on the videos, IS THERE.

Just you keep on ignoring it.

Rumsfeld did not push any patients down the road on tourneys.
He only carried backboard across the lawn.
Doctors, nurses and paramedics pushed tourneys down the highway on tourneys.
Anyone who watches the videos, can see this.

Found this Ruby Gray flicker page with this picture?

www.flickr.com...@N02/




After you rant of “ Gurneys are wheeled trolleys, which were not used that morning.” And “ Doctors, nurses and paramedics pushed tourneys down the highway on tourneys.
Anyone who watches the videos, can see this.”

Yet on a flicker page of a Ruby Gray had a picture of Rumsfeld at the large hole in the pentagon, not on any highway with a gurney at his feet.

You are blatantly dishonest, full of crap, and shamefully intellectually dishonest.

Sad to see you keep posting when you should gather what honor you have left and fade away. But just keep posting those CIT lies.

a reply to: RubyGray

You stated that I posted the north flight witness were lying.

Now quote where I posted such a claim?

You have no credibility Ruby.

Your the one denying the clearly stated accounts by individuals that saw a large jet that hit crap then the pentagon.

a reply to: RubyGray

You

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
Arthur Conan Doyle

The witness path of the large jet that hit the pentagon makes it physically impossible that it could maneuver to miss the pentagon.

People saw a large jet hit the pentagon.

There are no accounts of the jet missing the pentagon.

You cannot cite any other cause at the pentagon that is more credible for the witnessed crash and damage.

You cannot explain away the radar data, the flight recorder data.

You cannot explain away all the flight path damage, and your created false mythology concerning the flight path damage.

You have no explanation how the wreckage, the remains of the crew, the remains of the passengers of flight 77 ended up at the pentagon. Those remains were recovered at the pentagon, verified by DNA and the coroner, the coroner issued death certificates to the surviving family members, and remains released to families.

And you cannot even be trusted if gurneys were or were not used at the pentagon.

a reply to: RubyGray

Pentagon Attack & Flight 77 Evidence Summary & Links page 1 of 2

sites.google.com...

From the lists above, 136 people saw the plane approach the Pentagon, and
104 directly saw the plane hit the Pentagon.

6 were nearly hit by the plane in front of the Pentagon. Several others were within 100-200 feet of the impact.

26 mentioned that it was an American Airlines jet.

39 others mentioned that it was a large jet/commercial airliner.

2 described a smaller corporate jet. 1 described a "commuter plane" but didn't mention the size.

7 said it was a Boeing 757.

8 witnesses were pilots. One witness was an Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower Chief.

2 witnesses were firefighters working on their truck at the Pentagon heliport.

4 made radio calls to inform emergency services that a plane had hit the Pentagon.

10 said the plane's flaps and landing gear were not deployed (1 thought landing gear struck a light pole).

16 mentioned seeing the plane hit light poles/trees, or were next to to the poles when it happened. Another 8 mentioned the light poles being knocked down: it's unknown if they saw them hit.

42 mentioned seeing aircraft debris. 4 mentioned seeing airline seats. 3 mentioned engine parts.

2 mentioned bodies still strapped into seats.

15 mentioned smelling or contacting aviation/jet fuel.

3 had vehicles damaged by light poles or aircraft debris. Several saw other occupied vehicles damaged.

3 took photographs of the aftermath.

Many mentioned false alarm warnings of other incoming planes after the crash. One said "3-4 warnings."

And of course,

0 saw a military aircraft or missile strike the Pentagon.

0 saw a plane narrowly miss the Pentagon and fly away.

a reply to: RubyGray

I don’t trust government.

I don’t need the official account to be true.

I simply looked at all the information I can find. I compare and contrast. I pay attention to what people lie about.

I think the government did everything it could to cover up its incompetence concerning 9/11. As a friend point out, especially for getting out of lawsuits for criminal negligence.

I cite and quote what people are actually recorded as witnessing.

Your the one that puts words in people’s mouths.

You the one that refuses to follow proper quoting format at ATS.

Your the one that makes false accusation of what individuals at ATS post. And you never provide actual quotes when you accuse ATS members of specific allegations.

Your the one that often provides no links to source material.

Your the one that ignores physics.

Your the one that uses false absolutes.

Your the one that seems to need something.

Your the one that seems to need to think the the government is always in control even if it means buying into conspiracy fantasies.

Your the one that can come to terms that 19 individuals backed by rouge rich and power Middle Eastern interests could cause great damage.

Do I believe governments can cause great evil. Yes. And middle eastern interests with ties to government were very motivated to carry out 9/11.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

You don’t follow the link...

CIT is done, it is time for them to go home.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

megaman1234

I have seen thread after thread after thread where the CIT group has been utterly and completely blasted with facts and figures and evidence, and have responded with nothing of any substance ...

Wrong, you DO NEED to follow links, and go to other threads mentioned, where Craig Ranke very ably answers this specious, content-bankrupt rant.

Craig did the legwork, put in the miles and the effort for his self-funded investigation which included interviewing SCORES OF WITNESSES. He is a highly intelligent, rational and logical man well equipped to do what he did, and his detractors are intellectually unable to match him. He has successfully debated several of his critics.

The convoluted machinations indulged in by e.g. David Chandler, Chris Sarns, Wayne Costs, Frank Legge at al, as they attempt to explain away the abundant corroborating evidence of the Northside eyewitnesses, are laughable and transparent. Why do these "scientists for 9/11 truth" squirm so violently to counteract the testimony given by scores of Northside eyewitnesses, while insisting,

"The Pentagon witnesses deserve the same respect we give to the WTC witnesses"?

Craig and CIT were very active for years after 2008, when they were only just getting started. They interviewed many more Northside witnesses in the following years, which most people are unaware of, as they dismiss CIT's work without properly studying it.

My only complaint about Aldo and Craig is that they got off on the wrong foot with their first 2 interviewees, LLOYDE ENGLAND and FATHER STEPHEN MCGRAW, due to the contrived taxicab-on-the-bridge imagery, and they allowed their otherwise exemplary work to continue to be hamstrung by some false conclusions they drew in those early days.

I am still hopeful that Craig and Aldo will rethink their interviews with Lloyde England, Father Stephen McGraw, Joel Sucherman and Vin Narayanan, see where they went wrong, then correct their erroneous statements and realise that these, and others, were genuinely yet more NORTHSIDE EYEWITNESSES who significantly strengthen CIT's work, and demolish the opposition's rants.

a reply to: RubyGray

Ruby. What hit the pentagon.

Why is there no corresponding north flight path damage when witnesses attest to a passenger jet hitting crap on the way to crashing into the pentagon.

Again...

Pentagon Attack & Flight 77 Evidence Summary & Links page 1 of 2

sites.google.com...

From the lists above, 136 people saw the plane approach the Pentagon, and
104 directly saw the plane hit the Pentagon.

6 were nearly hit by the plane in front of the Pentagon. Several others were within 100-200 feet of the impact.

26 mentioned that it was an American Airlines jet.

39 others mentioned that it was a large jet/commercial airliner.

2 described a smaller corporate jet. 1 described a "commuter plane" but didn't mention the size.

7 said it was a Boeing 757.

8 witnesses were pilots. One witness was an Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower Chief.

2 witnesses were firefighters working on their truck at the Pentagon heliport.

4 made radio calls to inform emergency services that a plane had hit the Pentagon.

10 said the plane's flaps and landing gear were not deployed (1 thought landing gear struck a light pole).

16 mentioned seeing the plane hit light poles/trees, or were next to to the poles when it happened. Another 8 mentioned the light poles being knocked down: it's unknown if they saw them hit.

42 mentioned seeing aircraft debris. 4 mentioned seeing airline seats. 3 mentioned engine parts.

2 mentioned bodies still strapped into seats.

15 mentioned smelling or contacting aviation/jet fuel.

3 had vehicles damaged by light poles or aircraft debris. Several saw other occupied vehicles damaged.

3 took photographs of the aftermath.

Many mentioned false alarm warnings of other incoming planes after the crash. One said "3-4 warnings."

And of course,

0 saw a military aircraft or missile strike the Pentagon.

0 saw a plane narrowly miss the Pentagon and fly away.

a reply to: neutronflux

You just keep on telling all those lies about me.

It obviously makes you feel good about yourself.

a reply to: RubyGray

CIT is not coming back because for the witnessed flight path of the jet, it was physically impossible for the jet to maneuver to miss the pentagon. What do you not get people witnessed the jet hit the pentagon, no witnesses saw the jet miss and fly away.

originally posted by: RubyGray
a reply to: neutronflux

You just keep on telling all those lies about me.

It obviously makes you feel good about yourself.

The quote what I am lying about.

a reply to: RubyGray

No. It’s sickening that people cannot acknowledge that the passengers and crew of flight 77 were murdered when terrorists flew flight 77 into the pentagon.

a reply to: neutronflux

HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE SOLID EVIDENCE!!!!!!

You binge-quote this codswallop as though it proves anything,

"16 mentioned SEEING the plane hit light poles/trees, or were next to to the poles when it happened. Another 8 mentioned the light poles being knocked down: it's unknown if they saw them hit."

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I PROVED TO YOU, that NOBODY SAW THE PLANE HIT ANY POLES!!!!

I just gave you evidence that these 11 people DID NOT SEE THE PLANE HIT POLES, even though the media deceptively suggested they did, by using third-person and hearsay comments.
And there are many more similar testimonies from others who also DID NOT SEE THE PLANE HITTING POLES.

I quoted verbatim from the eyewitnesses themselves.

Unlike your above quote from a nameless website, which gives no names and no eyewitness testimony whatsoever, and yet YOU tell ME how to properly cite evidence!

You do not even begin to understand the difference between FIRST-PERSON EYE-WITNESS EVIDENCE, second-person reporting, third-person and hearsay comments.

And the people who were NEXT TO THE POLES,

DID NOT SEE,
and even DENIED,
THE PLANE HITTING POLES.

JOEL SUCHERMAN
PENNY ELGAS
CAMERA GUY
YVETTE BUZARD
EUGENE HERNANDEZ
RICK RENZI
were all on the overpass, near the overhead sign on the bridge, yet they either firmly denied, or did not see, the plane hitting any poles.

If the plane flew over the bridge, these people are the ones who would have seen it.
BUT THEY DID NOT, BECAUSE IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

LLOYDE ENGLAND, whose cab was hit by a projectile pole while he was driving south on Route 27, north of the heliport, said in CIT video
LLOYDE ENGLAND AND HIS TAXI CAB - THE EYE OF THE STORM,
youtu.be...

31:15
"Well you see I can't explain where the pole came from."

56:35
"I DID NOT SEE IT COMING.
"I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM.
"I DID NOT SEE IT COMING.
"IT WAS THERE.
"When the plane went across, all of a sudden, the pole crashed through."

1:11:20
"I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE LIGHTPOLE CAME FROM.
"I DON'T KNOW WHERE.
"I NEVER SAW IT.
"I NEVER SAW IT."

1:11:42
"The pole came out of the car. That's where the pole came from.
"BUT WHERE IT CAME FROM BEFORE IT HIT THE CAR, I DON'T KNOW."

People claim that LLOYDE was a witness to the plane hitting lightpoles as it flew across the bridge.
But Lloyde himself is absolutely adamant that neither he nor the plane was anywhere near the bridge, and that he DID NOT SEE THE PLANE HIT A LIGHTPOLE.

If you really bothered to research the eyewitness testimony, you would find the same things I have, because that is the TRUTH.

You merely copy and paste other people's work, not ever looking into what it really means, or whether it is even true.

Go and WATCH the Lloyde England videos, and listen to this honest, humble working man's testimony, as he is harangued with the Official Story, yet never once does he capitulate from his testimony about being north of the heliport, NOT ON THE BRIDGE, when the plane flew over his car.

Go and LISTEN to Jeff Hill's interview with Penny Elgas, which I have previously linked to, more than once.
www.dailymotion.com...

LUSTEN to her answer his question,
"You saw it hit one of the light poles?"

AGAIN, for your benefit, she clearly states,

"NO I DIDN'T SEE IT HIT. I HEARD ON THE NEWS THAT IT HIT A LIGHT POLE."

And she was right there on the northern side of the overhead sign on the bridge, with 2 poles on her left, and 3 poles on her right.
Why did she not see the poles hit?
Could it be because, as she said, the plane crossed the highway on the Northside flight path, about 5 lengths in front of her car, and about 80 feet above ground level - which was MUCH TOO HIGH TO HIT ANYTHING, INCLUDING THE PENTAGON!?!

Penny Elgas gave the same answer given by many others who, the media claimed, had "seen" the plane hitting poles.
NO THEY DID NOT.
They HEARD about it on the media.

Or perhaps they were in that small group of motorists allowed to drive past the cab and pole lying on the bridge, for a very few minutes after Lloyde's taxi had been moved there.

The media lied.

NOBODY WITNESSED THE PLANE HITTING POLES.

a reply to: RubyGray

Ruby. People saw and attest to a large passenger jet hitting crap on the way to crashing into the pentagon.

Way is there no north flight path damage?

Light Pole Witnesses

aneta.org...

D. S. Khavkin, from the eighth floor of a high-rise building:
"... knocked down a number of street lamp poles"
news.bbc.co.uk...

Kirk Milburn, a construction supervisor for Atlantis Co. was on the exit of Interstate 395.
"... saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles."
a188.g.akamaitech.net...

Afework Hagos, 26, of Arlington, stuck in a traffic jam on Columbia Pike,
"It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lamp posts .."
www.guardian.co.uk...

Kat Gaines, a Fairfax County Fire & Rescue technician was heading south on Route 110, by the parking lots to the south when she saw a "low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles." She "then heard the plane power up" and plunge into the Pentagon.
www.fccc.org...

Vin Narayanan, a reporter for USA TODAY was driving near the Pentagon
www.usatoday.com...
"The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me"
www.usatoday.com...

Rodney Washington, a systems engineer for a Pentagon contractor, was stuck in the traffic a few hundred yards away:
"... knocking over light poles "
www.boston.com...

Steve Riskus took pictures less then 1 minute after the impact
www.criticalthrash.com...
"It knocked over a few light poles on its way..."
www.humanunderground.com...

Father Stephen McGraw was waiting on the northbound side of Washington Boulevard. driving to a graveside service at Arlington
"The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car.
www.dcmilitary.com...
www.mdw.army.mil...

Jim R. Cissell, a former photojournalist, drives past the Pentagon every day on his way to work at the Newseum in Arlington, Va.
enquirer.com...
.".. taking out telephone and power lines on its way in, hit the building."
www.cincypost.com...

Noel Sepulveda, a Master Sgt. was walking back to his motorcycle in the Pentagon South Car Park
It "The plane’s right wheel struck a light pole, causing it to fly at a 45-degree angle.".", he said.
The plane tried to recover, but hit a second light pole and continued flying at an angle. "You could hear the engines being revved up even higher,"
www.af.mil...

Colonel Bruce Elliott, a World War II and Korean War Chemical Mortar Battalion veteran and a former commander of the Iowa Army Ammunition Plant wasalso in the Parking Lot
"... the craft clipped a utility pole guide wire, which may have slowed it down a bit"
www.thehawkeye.com...

Air Force Honor Guard members were at the end of the cemetery directly across the highway from the Pentagon.
" They had heard, some had seen a plane coming in skimming trees and light poles."
www.bgcworld.org...

Mark Bright, 32, a traffic patrol officer was the first to arrive at the scene after seeing the plane from his guard booth by the Mall Entrance.
"-- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down."
He also said he heard the plane "power-up"
www.dcmilitary.com...
206.181.245.163...

Wanda Ramey, a DPS master patrol office watched from the Mall plaza booth.
"I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant. Then the engine revved up."
www.mdw.army.mil...

Michael Anthony K (aka 'Mimi Angelica') a 42-year-old firefighter-paramedic saw
"...poles lying on the ground that had apparently been knocked over by the plane as it headed for the building."
www.angelfire.com...

Mike Walter, 46, a USA Today reporter, said
"...It turned and then it went around ..it clipped one of these light poles."
Recorded interview - quick load Recorded interview - best quality

Richard Benedetto, another USA TODAY reporter said,
The only thing we saw on the ground outside there was a piece of a ... the tail of a lamp post.
Recorded interview - quick load / May 2002. Recorded interview - best quality / May 2002.

A Pentagon Navy Admiral said,
"It was a good size jet aircraft. I saw it clip a light pole but keep coming ..."
Houston Chronicle, 9/11/01 - Michael Hedges
(mirror) www2.hawaii.edu...

Don Fortunato, a plainclothes detective with the Arlington (Va.) Police Department, was walking into his office when he heard a muffled explosion. He dashed to the scene.
“Traffic was at a standstill, so I parked on the shoulder, not far from the scene and ran to the site. Next to me was a cab from D.C., its windshield smashed out by pieces of lampposts. There were pieces of the plane all over the highway, pieces of wing, I think.”

LaVern L Schueller, a Military Chaplain surveyed the scene after the event.
"The top of a light pole was knocked off on an overpass. The FBI had marked it as evidence. The top of a light pole had been knocked off on the street that goes by the Pentagon. It too was marked as evidence. And finally, it took out the entire light pole near the sidewalk.
www.aapc.org...
www.nwfdailynews.com...

Frank Probst, dove to the ground to avoid a passing jet engine.
"On either side of him, three streetlights had been sheared in half by the airliner's wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not far away."
www.militarycity.com...

Boston Globe

By Robert Schlesinger and Wayne Washington, Globe Staff, 9/12/2001

archive.boston.com...


Rodney Washington, a systems engineer for a Pentagon contractor, was stuck in stand-still traffic a few hundred yards from the Pentagon when the American Airlines jet roared overhead from the southwest.

''It was extremely loud, as you can imagine, a plane that size, it was deafening,'' Washington said.

The plane was flying low and rapidly descended, Washington said, knocking over light poles before hitting the ground on a helicopter pad just in front of the Pentagon and essentially bouncing into it.

a reply to: RubyGray

Ruby, what hit the pentagon.

There is no evidence of a flyover.

There is no witnesses attesting to the jet flying off

People saw the jet hit the pentagon.

You have no explain for what caused ALL the flight path damage other than your fabricated mythology.

It’s sickening that people cannot acknowledge that the passengers and crew of flight 77 were murdered when terrorists flew flight 77 into the pentagon.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

No. It’s sickening that people cannot acknowledge that the passengers and crew of flight 77 were murdered when terrorists flew flight 77 into the pentagon.

Part of your statement is correct.
THIS PART :

"It’s sickening that ... the passengers and crew of flight 77 were murdered."

The rest is an ASSUMPTION which is not backed by eyewitness testimony.

This is what George Bush was telling the world within a few hours, without the benefit of any investigation or proof.

What is truly sickening, is that not only did the perpetrators murder thousands of their own citizens, but used that as a pretext to go and slaughter millions on foreign soil in the phony "WAR ON TERROR" which has no enemy and no end.

It is sickening that so many of our countries' mothers' sons and daughters were sacrificed to achieve this coldblooded, bloodthirsty NEW WORLD ORDER objective.

originally posted by: RubyGray
a reply to: neutronflux

You just keep on telling all those lies about me.

It obviously makes you feel good about yourself.

You going to quote lies, or just more false allegations by you.

a reply to: RubyGray

Ruby. I could care less about your fabricated mythology.

There is no proof of a fly over. That is what killed CIT.

What did people see hit the pentagon.

How did the passengers and crew of flight 77 end up dead at the pentagon.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray
There is no evidence of a flyover.

There is no witnesses attesting to the jet flying off.

You are quite wrong.

There are several witnesses who attested to the flyover, or made statements consistent with this, but you do not want to even consider them.

There was David Ball, who was mysteriously murdered.

There was Michael Kelly.

There was Kat Gaines.

There was Maria de la Cerda.

There were the ANC workers who stated that a bomb had exploded in the Pentagon, and a jet kept on going.

There was Sergeant Roosevelt Roberts.

There were 2 witnesses reported by the media in the first minutes post impact, who stated that the plane had veered away.

There was Don Scott.

There was Levi Stephens.

There was Dennis Smith.

There was Dewitt Roseborough.

a reply to: RubyGray

The passengers and crew of flight 77 were murdered when flight 77 was flown into the pentagon by hijackers.

What remains were released to families?

Charles Frank "Chic" Burlingame III (September 12, 1949 – September 11, 2001) was the pilot of American Airlines Flight 77,

Burlingame was buried in the Arlington National Cemetery.


en.m.wikipedia.org...

Always remember: Suzanne Calley of San Martin died when terrorists flew Flight 77 into the Pentagon

gilroydispatch.com...

Two years after that fateful day when Calley, 42, perished Sept. 11 alongside 183 other victims at the Pentagon site, Jensen cremated his wife’s body. Her remains were first pulled by rescue crews from the twisted wreckage of Flight 77, and later scattered by Jensen into the Pacific Ocean near Monterey. This is where the couple frequently taught classes together as master scuba instructors.

D.C. Teachers, Students Die In Pentagon Crash

mobile.edweek.org... 55-CC2980C3ACA9

Besides Ms. Taylor, the two other Washington teachers who died in the crash were Sarah Clark, a 6th grade teacher at Backus Middle School, and James Debeuneure, who taught 5th grade at Ketcham Elementary School.

The three students from Washington lost in the crash were Bernard Brown, who attended Leckie Elementary; Rodney Dickens, who attended Ketcham Elementary; and Asia Cottom, from Backus Middle School. All three were 11.

Sacred Ground
On 9/11: The ring that survived the inferno

BY ANELIA K. DIMITROVA Sep 13, 2011

www.communitynewspapergroup.com...

When crews eventually cleared the debris, among other personal effects on the site of the tragedy, investigators found a one-carat ring, size 6.8, its band bent, its prongs crooked but still holding firmly in place the solitaire diamond.

Looking at the picture of the ring, in a binder of images of personal effects FBI agents discovered at the crime scene, Peter Batacan, Karen’s husband, could hardly believe his eyes. He took a closer look at the serial number.

It was the same ring he had surprised Karen with on June 27, 1995, when he dropped on one knee under the elm tree in one of their favorite parks in Bethesda, Md., and asked her to marry him.

Snip

Receiving Karen’s ashes and having them placed in her final resting place in the niche in the church, where on the 10th anniversary congregation members will lay flowers, gave Peter some level of comfort as did a memorial service he and Karen’s family attended later in Waverly.