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9/11 Pentagon: The Mystery of the Moved Taxi

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posted on Nov, 8 2019 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: RubyGray

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

At least 14 witnesses attest to a large jet knocking over light poles / utility poles. With the jet being witnessed low enough to the ground to clip trees.

If the jet approached from the north, there should be a north flight path of damage. But there is no evidence of such a second path of damage.



What a crock.
If the plane flew on the northside flightpath -
which it did -
and since there is no trail of damage,
This is proof that the plane flew over the Pentagon.


Really? Then what did at least 14 individuals see knock over crap flying low enough to clip trees on the way to the pentagon?

What did over 100 people see hit the pentagon?

How many witnesses can you quote that a large passenger jet maneuvered to miss the pentagon and then flew off?
edit on 8-11-2019 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed




posted on Nov, 8 2019 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: RubyGray

Save your smug insults for yourself.


It wasn't an insult it's an observation. You are really bad at this.

Seriously bad.

SNIP::Mod Edit

Funny how conspiracists are all about “truth”. But, when a post has too much truth. Conspiracists become blind to that post? Conspiracists never admit they are wrong, but just fade away.
edit on 11/9/2019 by semperfortis because: Removed Unnecessary Redundant Huge Quote



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 03:47 AM
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Mary Ann Owens was stuck in traffic right beside the helipad when the plane flew over her head.
She estimated that it was between 50 - 75 feet above her car.



There is no way that a plane flying on this NORTHSIDE PATH can have flown across the bridge, nor hit any of the 5 downed poles.

She said she instinctively ducked down into her car when the plane flew across, so she cannot have seen the impact which would have occurred a fraction of a second after it flew over her car.

She took this photograph from her position, proving that she was at the location she claimed.

MARY ANN OWENS WAS A NORTHSIDE FLIGHTPATH EYEWITNESS
edit on 9-11-2019 by RubyGray because: typo



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 03:57 AM
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Penny Elgas was standing on top of the bridge, north of the overhead sign, near Mike Walter.

She was watching Lloyde England's taxi for several minutes, while others were absorbed in the spectacle in the opposite direction.




posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 04:04 AM
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October 18, 2001 – Christine Peterson, '73 found herself in the thick of last month's terrorist tragedy, and submitted this report. It offers a personal perspective on the events in Washington, D.C., which have perhaps been overshadowed in the media by the scope of the horrors in New York.

It was 9:30 a.m. on Tuesday, September 11th, and traffic was terrible. For all of my twenty-eight years living in the Washington, D.C. area, terrible traffic was a constant. I'd been in Boston the day before and gotten home late. That morning I repacked my suitcase because I was heading out to San Francisco on the 3:20 p.m. flight. I just needed a few hours in the office first, and now I was officially late for work.

I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the other routes I had taken that morning.

I looked idly out my window to the left – and saw a plane flying so low I said, "holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car" (not my actual words).

The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing. And then the plane crashed.

My mind could not comprehend what had happened. Where did the plane go? For some reason I expected it to bounce off the Pentagon wall in pieces. But there was no plane visible, only huge billows of smoke and torrents of fire. (...)
www.naualumni.com...

Christine Peterson is one of the many morotists right next to the PEntagon on 9/11, who looked to their LEFT to see the plane coming straight at them.

This photograph taken by Steve Riskus in the first few minutes post impact proves her position, opposite the Helipad.



She looked to her LEFT, NOT behind her.
The plane flew directly overhead, therefore it cannot have flown across the bridge, nor hit any of the 5 downed lightpoles.

Christine Peterson is a NORTHSIDE FLIGHTPATH EYEWITNESS.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 04:18 AM
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originally posted by: RubyGray

She took this photograph from her position,



Mary Ann Owens

I snapped pictures of the carnage from my car as I was being directed away.


So this photo was taken after she started driving north.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 04:30 AM
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originally posted by: RubyGray


Penny Elgas was standing on top of the bridge, north of the overhead sign, near Mike Walter.

She was watching Lloyde England's taxi for several minutes, while others were absorbed in the spectacle in the opposite direction.




That's not a Sheila, that's a Bruce.





Wow. You are really BAD at this.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 04:30 AM
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It's a dude.






edit on 9-11-2019 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-11-2019 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 04:32 AM
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originally posted by: RubyGray




Did you know that there is a product called Hair Dye, and when you put it on your hair, your hair changes color.





edit on 9-11-2019 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 08:44 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux

RUBYGRAY said :
What a crock.
If the plane flew on the northside flightpath -
which it did -
and since there is no trail of damage,
This is proof that the plane flew over the Pentagon.

NEUTRONFLUX repeated (again again again again again ...)
Really? Then what did at least 14 individuals see knock over crap flying low enough to clip trees on the way to the pentagon?


What is your problem with comprehension?
How many times must you have simple facts explained to you, before you READ and UNDERSTAND THEM?

Craig Ranke already very masterfully answered all your complaints and many more, about witnesses ***allegedly*** seeing the lightpoles gethit by a pkane,on this forum, over 12 years ago.

He was at that time being tormented by a tedious blogger under the name "Arabesque" who was actually Erik Larsen, who imagined that 22 witnesses saw the plane hit the poles.

Craig Ranke proved this to be total fiction, although he allowed that there was one single person among the 22, who specifically claimed to have seen the plane clip a pole.

This was WANDA RAMEY, who was in the guard shack north of the Pentagon with MARK BRIGHT.

WANDA RAMEY was subsequently interviewed by CIT, and she stated that she could not be certain that she had really witnessed this, but may have DEDUCED IT AFTER media coverage convinced so many that this fable was truth.[
editby]edit on 9-11-2019 by RubyGray because: Typo

edit on 9-11-2019 by RubyGray because: Formatting

edit on 9-11-2019 by RubyGray because: Formatting screwed up



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: RubyGray


9/11 Conspiracies
How many wintesses say they saw a plane hit light poles?
page: 1
8
new thread
reply
alert
>share this topic:
Craig Ranke CIT +7 more
posted on Oct, 23 2007 @ 02:25 AM link quote reply 757 impact proponents are quite fond of regurgitating mainstream media reports with zero research, analysis, confirmation, or investigation.

Considering that 9/11 was a psychological attack with the media being the weapon of choice this is inherently suicide in the pursuit of truth.

Typically the same lists are published over and over by people like Jim Hoffman, Eric Bart, and most recently Arabasque.

CIT has shown you why we can't trust a lot of these suspect witnesses and why it's so important to seek out previously unknown witnesses if we want to find the real truth.

Due to the north of the citgo evidence we focus a lot of attention on the light poles and see them as the key physical evidence proving an outright deception on 9/11.

So this thread is meant to examine all known witnesses who allegedly saw the light poles get hit.

Of the known alleged light pole witnesses Stephen McGraw, Joel Sucherman, Chad Brooks, and Mike Walter have all personally confirmed with us that they did NOT see the light poles get hit and only deduced it from seeing them on the road.

Arabesque has the most comprehensive list of alleged light pole witnesses with a total of 22. Scroll down to the part that says "Witnesses described the plane hitting lamp poles and objects". (he says "and objects" because a few describe things that were not hit at all.)

CIT has pointed out errors to him in the past that he has refused to correct and we have always maintained that there is only ONE previously published account where the witness is quoted specifically claiming that she literally "saw" the light poles get hit by the plane.

I will now address each of the witnesses he presents in order to explain how the information Arabasque asserts is false and downright deceptive in how it is presented.


1. “It was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down.”[387]

Mark Bright. Pentagon police officer who was at the guard shack. Does NOT claim to have witnessed the impact OR the plane hitting the poles. Mentioning the downed poles is not the same as seeing the plane hit them.



2. “He said the craft clipped a utility pole guide wire.”[388]

Utility pole guide wire? He does not claim to have seen the plane hit any light poles and no "guide wire" was hit. In fact he is not even quoted about this but he IS quoted seeing the plane "bank" which contradicts the official flight path and SUPPORTS the north side flight path. Arabasque is 0 for 2.



3. “Penny Elgas stopped as she saw a passenger jet descend, clip a light pole near her.”[389]

Penny also does not claim to have seen the plane hit the poles. Arabasque is not quoting Penny. Why is he deceptively attributing this quote to Penny in his analysis? He is 0 for 3.



4. “The plane approached the Pentagon… clipping a light pole, a car antenna… It clipped a couple of light poles on the way in.”[390]

Lee Evey was the Pentagon renovation manager. He was not a witness to the plane, the attack, or the light poles. He was at home at the time of the attack. This is EXACTLY why Arabasque's "research" is so damaging. He does ZERO fact checking and simply copies and pastes words provided for him by the complicit mainstream media. We have pointed this fact out to him in this thread and he even acknowledged it and promised to correct his mistakes in this post over 4 months ago! That means he is knowingly pushing disinfo which is an assault on truth and a slap in the face to real researchers.



5. “Next to me was a cab from D.C., its windshield smashed out by pieces of lampposts.”[391]

Don Fortunato. Nobody denies the cab and pole were on the road. Don does not claim he saw the plane hit the pole, the pole sticking out of the windshield of the cab OR the cab driver removing the pole. He is 0 for 5.



6. “[she saw] a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles.”[392]

Kat Gaines was on 110 and would not be able to physically see the plane hit the poles. Once again Arabasque is not quoting Kat Gaines. Without a direct quote AND confirmation of that quote he is not citing evidence but citing mainstream media deceptions. Besides....no "telephone poles" were downed at all. He is 0 for 6.



7. “It hit some lampposts on the way in.”[393]

Afework Hagos is not claiming to have SEEN the light poles get hit. We can't find a trace of this person existing at all but regardless.....simply mentioning the poles is NOT evidence that they literally saw the plane hit the poles. We know that a lot of people saw the poles on the ground and deduced that they were hit. He is 0 for 7.



8. “[the [plane flew] over Ft Myer picking off trees and light poles near the helicopter pad next to building.”[394]

Like Lee Evey, Tom Hovis is not a witness, he was in his office...8 miles away from the Pentagon. He was not present during the attack. He was reciting what he believed he learned about the flight path of the plane. Once again Arabasque has proven how inaccurate the disinformation is that he is publishing online.




9. “[he watched the plane clip] the antenna of the vehicle immediately behind him. It also struck three light poles between him and the building.”[395]

Don Mason was a Pentagon Renovation worker that is one of 3 PenRen workers cited in the ASCE report. Because of this he is a VERY suspect witness but once again.....he is not even quoting Don Mason. And even still...the mainstream media reporter Arabaque is quoting STILL doesn't say that he "saw" the plane hit the poles. He is 0 for 9.



10. “The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car.”[396]

Arabasque KNOWS that we did an interview with opus dei influenced priest Stephen McGraw. He KNOWS that we have posted this entire interview online for the entire world to see. He KNOWS that McGraw specifically told us and the world that he did NOT see the plane hit the poles despite the fact that he was allegedly right in front of them. Therefore Arabasque is once again caught deliberately disseminating disinformation in support of the official story. How can he do something so malicious and harmful to truth?



11. “I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles.”[397]

Do I even have to address this? Kirk Milburn was not in a position to see the poles and he does not even claim to have seen them. We spoke with his son who told us that Kirk died in a motorcycle accident a couple years ago.



12. “As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110.”[398]

Terry Morin was at the Navy Annex parking lot where you CAN NOT see route 27 or the light poles. You can't even see the Pentagon due to the steep decline. He does not even claim to have seen the light pole get hit. Arabasque is 0 for 12



13. “The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me.”[399]

Vin was one of the reporters in the USA Today Parade. No "overhanging exit sign" was hit and he does not claim to see the plane hit any poles.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: RubyGray

CRAIG RANKE
HOW MANY WITNESSES SAY THEY SAW A PLANE HIT LIGHTPOLES?
October 2007
Continued

14. “Street lights toppled as the plane barely cleared the Interstate 395 overpass.”[400]

Mary Ann Owens is also part of the USA Today/Gannett Parade. She is not claiming to have "seen" the poles get hit by the plane. He is 0 for 14.



15. “On either side of him, three streetlights had been sheared in half by the airliner’s wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not far away.”

Where is his source for this one? Who said this? Whoever it was it sure wasn't a witness because they are talking about it in 3rd person. This is not a witness account at all. He is 0 for 15.



16. “I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant.”[401]

Here is the one account. Wanda Ramey. She is the ONE known witness who is directly quoted as having "seen" the plane hit the poles. She is or was a Pentagon police officer just like Chad Brooks. Chad had also said in the past that he saw the plane hit the poles. When we interviewed him he clarified and said that he didn't actually see it happen but simply saw the poles on the ground after the fact. No doubt Wanda is also deducing this and simply honestly embellishing her account just like Chad did. Since she is the ONLY one to specifically make this claim and since we have directly spoken with so many others who specifically say that they didn't see the poles get hit it is a fair assumption on our part to make. We are still trying to get a hold of her for direct clarification. Nonetheless she is the only one. He is 1 for 16.



17. “It knocked over a few light poles in its way…”[402]

Steve Riskus does not claim to have seen the plane hit the poles.



18. “[It] struck a light pole…The plane tried to recover, but hit a second light pole and continued flying at an angle.”[403]

I'll admit Noel Sepulveda sounds like he is claiming he saw the plane hit the poles. But he does NOT specifically state it and he may be relaying what he was told. This is why first-hand confirmation is so important. Plus it allegedly hit 5 poles not 2. Is it really possible for the plane to "try to recover" at over 500mph? If any of the 5 poles really affected the flight of the plane that would have been devastating and there is no way it would have hit with such perfect precision so low and level and fast to the ground as depicted in the security video. There is a lot of reason to doubt the legitimacy of this account and we were not able to find him for verification.



19. “There were light poles down.”[404]

Once again, Joel Sucherman DOES NOT claim to have seen the poles get hit, is a USA Today Editor, AND we interviewed him in his office at Gannett. He specifically told us that he did not see the plane hit the poles. That is the type of effort it takes to find the truth. Why does Arabasque refuse to confirm his research and insist on spreading information that has been PROVEN to be incorrect even though he is fully aware of it? How can he not see how harmful that is?



20. “It turned and came around in front of the vehicle and it clipped one of these light poles…”[405]

Once again....does not claim to have seen the poles hit. We had dinner at Mike Walter's house. He also specifically told us that he did NOT see the plane hit the poles.



21. “The plane was flying low and rapidly descended, knocking over light poles.”[406]

Rodney Washington is not claiming that he saw the plane hit the poles. You can not take an unconfirmed statement out of context and assume he is saying what you want him to say. He is simply relaying what he believes the plane to have done.



22. “I saw it clip a light pole.”[407]

Uh-huh. Here is the "Unnamed Navy admiral". Real detailed account isn't it? That is not a witness with a name and so this is not valid evidence.

So......just as I stated; there is only ONE witness who states she saw the plane hit a pole.


Out of all these, many have ADMITTED they didn't see the plane hit the poles and many aren't even witnesses to the event at all and only 1 claims she saw the plane hit a pole. It's clear this is NOT evidence strong enough to counter the rock solid north of the citgo testimony that is independently corroborated 6 times and directly refuted by NOBODY proving the plane did not hit the poles.

First-hand confirmation of ALL witness accounts is key.

Never trust the mainstream media but PARTICULARLY in regards to 9/11.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 09:03 PM
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originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: RubyGray



Did you know that there is a product called Hair Dye, and when you put it on your hair, your hair changes color.


Oh for crying out loud!!!

The photos I published ARE PENNY ELGAS.

They LOOK LIKE PENNY ELGAS.

Even if she had changed her hair colour (which she obviously did not), she would STILL LOOK LIKE PENNY ELGAS.

The photo you posted LOOKS LIKE SOMEBODY ELSE.

Because that lady IS NOT PENNY ELGAS.

Nor is that car you posted, Penny Elgas' car, which was much further north, heading down the decline from the overpass. Above the green grass on the bank as Penny Elgas stated.
NOT ON TOP OF THE OVERPASS, which has a tunnel beneath it.

It is merely another of your desperate, transparent scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel attempts to support the fraudulent Official Conspiracy.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 09:05 PM
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originally posted by: waypastvne
It's a dude.




You are insane.
Take some anatomy lessons.
There is a difference.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 09:13 PM
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originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: RubyGray

She took this photograph from her position,



Mary Ann Owens

I snapped pictures of the carnage from my car as I was being directed away.


So this photo was taken after she started driving north.


No, she DID NOT.

She took quite a few photos, but stated that THIS ONE, which she took from where she was standing outside at the location of her parked car, was the only one which came out.

She was not a professional photographer, and she was using a $20 camera.
It is obvious that THIS photograph was taken from a static location, with a full field of view, in the full light of day.

It obviously was NOT a blurry snapshot taken from inside a moving vehicle by a person keeping one eye on the road and holding a camera at arm's length from the far side of the car, through the passenger's window.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: RubyGray

She took quite a few photos, but stated that THIS ONE, which she took from where she was standing outside at the location of her parked car,





Prove it.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: Hulseyreport
Ruby even northside witnesses claim the plane was very low to the ground to be seen. The only dispute is which side of the navy annex was the plane at- yes/no None of them claim the plane was high up in the air and was trying to avoid the Pentagon. There seems to be one plane and people's stories don't seem to agree with each other about the direction But everything else seems to add up that plane came in low and was heading towards the Pentagon.


Sure, compared with a plane that is flying where it is supposed to, up in the air far above all earthly obstacles, this plane was very low.

People's estimates varied considerably, but there were numerous witnesses who claimed the the plane as it crossed the highway was about 50, 70 80 feet above ground level or above their cars, even up to 75 YARDS.

The Pentagon is only 73 feet high (some estimates say 77 feet).

From the highway to the wall took just a fraction 9f a second at the jet's claimed velocity.

The 2 Gatecam videos show a "plane" (or an airbrushed neon tetra goldfish) crossing the lawn beside the highway, perfectly level and just barely skimming the lawn.

It just is not possible for a 757 jet to descend from 75 yards AGL or 80 feet or even 50 feet, to become level and skimming the lawn, the instant it crossed the highway, and to maintain its horizontal profile which left not a scratch on lawn or building floor, in a fraction of a second.

However, it is possible, especially if it was already "pulling up" before reaching the highway, as testified by location-verified North-of-Citgo eyewitnesses ROBERT TURCIOS (Citgo) and DARIUS PRATHER (AN Cemetery), for it to have continued on and to clear the building.

In fact, one of the earliest TV reporters did state that a witness said the plane had tried to miss the building. Chris Plante I believe.



posted on Nov, 9 2019 @ 11:40 PM
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originally posted by: RubyGray






You are insane.
Take some anatomy lessons.
There is a difference.


Where are her glasses?



posted on Nov, 10 2019 @ 12:37 AM
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originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: RubyGray






You are insane.
Take some anatomy lessons.
There is a difference.


Where are her glasses?


She is the same age as me.
I wear reading glasses but do not need them otherwise.
And this was 18 years ago.



posted on Nov, 10 2019 @ 12:58 AM
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a reply to: RubyGray


Penny Elgas

A young woman in her 20's from the car in front of me was standing in front of my car and was visibly distraught and said she didn't know what to do.



My Penny is older lady, in the HOV lane, standing next to the open door of a Dodge Neon, talking to a visibly distraught young woman in her 20's, in the perfect position to pick up a piece of debris from AA77.





Your penny is a dude walking on the sidewalk eyeballing Lloyd without any glasses.




My Penny fits her testimony.

Your Penny does not.



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