9/11 Pentagon: The Mystery of the Moved Taxi

a reply to: RubyGray

Again.

Your fabricated mythology doesn’t explain the contact damage.

The majority of witnesses that you claim point to north flight path states a jet hit the pentagon. The north flight path is not supported by the bulk of pentagon witnesses, the actual physical evidence the radar data, the flight data recorder, and the entrance hole in the pentagon.

What caused the flight path damage, the pentagon entrance hole, and the pentagon damage.

How did the crew and passengers of flight 77 end up dead at the pentagon.

Your fabricated mythology around property damage to a single light pole ignores how the saga of the pentagon ends. The heart of the mater is the deaths and bodies at the pentagon, not a light pole.

Again. Please tell us how you really feel about the victims of flight 77?

Originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

Did you say something about the flight 77 victims found at the pentagon?

Then what remains were released to the families of those who died on flight 77.

Charles Frank "Chic" Burlingame III (September 12, 1949 – September 11, 2001) was the pilot of American Airlines Flight 77,

Burlingame was buried in the Arlington National Cemetery.


en.m.wikipedia.org...

Always remember: Suzanne Calley of San Martin died when terrorists flew Flight 77 into the Pentagon

gilroydispatch.com...

Two years after that fateful day when Calley, 42, perished Sept. 11 alongside 183 other victims at the Pentagon site, Jensen cremated his wife’s body. Her remains were first pulled by rescue crews from the twisted wreckage of Flight 77, and later scattered by Jensen into the Pacific Ocean near Monterey. This is where the couple frequently taught classes together as master scuba instructors.

D.C. Teachers, Students Die In Pentagon Crash

mobile.edweek.org... 55-CC2980C3ACA9

Besides Ms. Taylor, the two other Washington teachers who died in the crash were Sarah Clark, a 6th grade teacher at Backus Middle School, and James Debeuneure, who taught 5th grade at Ketcham Elementary School.

The three students from Washington lost in the crash were Bernard Brown, who attended Leckie Elementary; Rodney Dickens, who attended Ketcham Elementary; and Asia Cottom, from Backus Middle School. All three were 11.

Sacred Ground
On 9/11: The ring that survived the inferno

BY ANELIA K. DIMITROVA Sep 13, 2011

www.communitynewspapergroup.com...

When crews eventually cleared the debris, among other personal effects on the site of the tragedy, investigators found a one-carat ring, size 6.8, its band bent, its prongs crooked but still holding firmly in place the solitaire diamond.

Looking at the picture of the ring, in a binder of images of personal effects FBI agents discovered at the crime scene, Peter Batacan, Karen’s husband, could hardly believe his eyes. He took a closer look at the serial number.

It was the same ring he had surprised Karen with on June 27, 1995, when he dropped on one knee under the elm tree in one of their favorite parks in Bethesda, Md., and asked her to marry him.

Snip

Receiving Karen’s ashes and having them placed in her final resting place in the niche in the church, where on the 10th anniversary congregation members will lay flowers, gave Peter some level of comfort as did a memorial service he and Karen’s family attended later in Waverly.

a reply to: RubyGray

Hey Ruby?

CIT is it? Called everyone and their bother? Why don’t they have the logs from Capital City cabs is it? That would show who’s cab was working the Cemetery/Pentagon area, and how many? Are you saying there was only one capitol cab working the area on a busy morning?

And you cannot even provide conclusive evidence from the evidence you claim you have

a reply to: RubyGray

Let’s recap more.

You claim witnesses witnessed the cab by the wall. But you cannot cite sources, names, and quotes.

You claim you have video of the cab by the wall. But your link didn’t work.

The “evidence” you have provided for the cab is pure BS.


So, you have no video which you claim exists, and it doesn’t clearly show any ID of the cab in question. Such as cab number or license plate number to start with proving who and what cab was by the wall. And you would leave us to believe the cab company only had one cab? And only one cab working the cemetery and pentagon on a busy day? The destination of many a visitor. With CIT doing no investigation into cab logs to find out who was where In their cabs. With CIT conducting no other interviews with other cab drives to insure the cab in question was the only one in the area.

You claim a machine shot a light pole into the cab? But none of the witnesses you claim exists mention a light pole being shot into a cab, heard a sound indicative of a pole shot into the cab and breaking glass. Or saw any equipment that could shoot a light pole into a cab which would look like a big artillery piece with a 30 foot pole sticking out?

You keep taking about video evidence? But the video claim exists doesn’t show a light pole being shot into a cab, doesn’t have the audio sound indicative of a pole shot into a cab and breaking glass. And the video doesn’t contain any equipment that could shoot a light pole into a cab which would look like a big artillery piece with a 30 foot pole sticking out?

Then there is this witness.

Boston Globe

By Robert Schlesinger and Wayne Washington, Globe Staff, 9/12/2001

archive.boston.com...


Rodney Washington, a systems engineer for a Pentagon contractor, was stuck in stand-still traffic a few hundred yards from the Pentagon when the American Airlines jet roared overhead from the southwest.

''It was extremely loud, as you can imagine, a plane that size, it was deafening,'' Washington said.

The plane was flying low and rapidly descended, Washington said, knocking over light poles before hitting the ground on a helicopter pad just in front of the Pentagon and essentially bouncing into it.

Not only do ignore the bulk of witnesses.

You act like the single light pole is the only
flight path damage.

The Overall Damage Path
As related by most eyewitnesses, a large plane flew low from the highway over the Pentagon lawn and hit the Pentagon West wall. Descriptions from various witnesses, photographs and FDR data fill in details that include:
 The plane knocked down several light poles
 The left wing finally was tilted down
 The right engine struck a generator trailer
 The left engine struck a low concrete wall
 The plane mostly disappeared into the building
 There was a large fireball
 The façade had a hole 18 ft wide where the plane body is presumed to have hit
 There was a gash 96 ft wide where plane wings would have hit
 The lawn was untouched afterwards except for debris
 Windows above the 18 ft wide hole were unbroken
 The internal column damage indicates the path direction of material and debris flow from the exterior
inwards
 There was a hole in the C ring wall that was roughly circular
 The downed light poles, trailer damage, low concrete wall and façade damage, interior columns
damage, and hole in the C ring are in a straight line
 The direction of this line is in accordance with the radar reports and the FDR file.
The overall appearance of the damage trail is consistent with the passage of a large plane. The façade can be viewed as a giant shredder (steel plus concrete) through which a plane has passed at high speed, further shredding itself by impacting the interior supports and by the edge-on impact with the second floor, and creating inside the building a high velocity flow of material that builds up pressure on the C ring wall until it gives way. A substantial amount of debris flows out through the hole created.
The overall damage trail weighs against the “flyover” theories, the small plane theory (separation of light poles in a direction perpendicular to the path is about 100 ft), and the missile theory. The direction of the damage trail is contrary to a north-of-CITGO path for the plane. To continue to be viable, one must add a staged event to these theories.

www.scientistsfor911truth.com...

Especially when you are willing to post blatant falsehoods.

You

He said the plane BANKED LEFT.
NO it did not!
It banked RIGHT.

The Pentagon Event:
The Honegger Hypothesis Refuted


www.scientistsfor911truth.com...

The plane was rolled to the left, and the left engine hit the low concrete wall almost at ground level there, which was higher than the level of the lawn in the foreground. Given these facts, there is no mystery as to the absence of a gouge in the pristine lawn.

a reply to: RubyGray

Not only will you not explain what happen to the original light pole concerning the cab ( as in how it was removed and where it went), you will not explain what/how the other four light poles ended up in pieces on the ground. And why there are no witnesses other than people stating a jet hit them.

With you having no explanation what hit the pentagon at the end of the flight path damage.

And you totally ignoring the victims of flight 77? What did you post about the victims aboard flight 77 ending up dead at the pentagon. Some of the persons listed below.

Charles Frank "Chic" Burlingame III (September 12, 1949 – September 11, 2001) was the pilot of American Airlines Flight 77,

Burlingame was buried in the Arlington National Cemetery.


en.m.wikipedia.org...

Always remember: Suzanne Calley of San Martin died when terrorists flew Flight 77 into the Pentagon

gilroydispatch.com...

Two years after that fateful day when Calley, 42, perished Sept. 11 alongside 183 other victims at the Pentagon site, Jensen cremated his wife’s body. Her remains were first pulled by rescue crews from the twisted wreckage of Flight 77, and later scattered by Jensen into the Pacific Ocean near Monterey. This is where the couple frequently taught classes together as master scuba instructors.

D.C. Teachers, Students Die In Pentagon Crash

mobile.edweek.org... 55-CC2980C3ACA9

Besides Ms. Taylor, the two other Washington teachers who died in the crash were Sarah Clark, a 6th grade teacher at Backus Middle School, and James Debeuneure, who taught 5th grade at Ketcham Elementary School.

The three students from Washington lost in the crash were Bernard Brown, who attended Leckie Elementary; Rodney Dickens, who attended Ketcham Elementary; and Asia Cottom, from Backus Middle School. All three were 11.

Sacred Ground
On 9/11: The ring that survived the inferno

BY ANELIA K. DIMITROVA Sep 13, 2011

www.communitynewspapergroup.com...

When crews eventually cleared the debris, among other personal effects on the site of the tragedy, investigators found a one-carat ring, size 6.8, its band bent, its prongs crooked but still holding firmly in place the solitaire diamond.

Looking at the picture of the ring, in a binder of images of personal effects FBI agents discovered at the crime scene, Peter Batacan, Karen’s husband, could hardly believe his eyes. He took a closer look at the serial number.

It was the same ring he had surprised Karen with on June 27, 1995, when he dropped on one knee under the elm tree in one of their favorite parks in Bethesda, Md., and asked her to marry him.

Snip

Receiving Karen’s ashes and having them placed in her final resting place in the niche in the church, where on the 10th anniversary congregation members will lay flowers, gave Peter some level of comfort as did a memorial service he and Karen’s family attended later in Waverly.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

Hey Ruby?

CIT is it? Called everyone and their bother? Why don’t they have the logs from Capital City cabs is it? That would show who’s cab was working the Cemetery/Pentagon area, and how many? Are you saying there was only one capitol cab working the area on a busy morning?

And you cannot even provide conclusive evidence from the evidence you claim you have

It is high time you quit mutilating the photos I have posted identifying Lloyde England's Capitol Cab beside the cemetery wall, by cutting out a small segment showing just the Capitol Cabs logo on the rear door, as though this was the only identifying feature. You know I have pointed out many other unique features proving what I say, and most importantly, what EYEWITNESS LLOYDE ENGLAND SAID, to be absolutely true.

CIT did indeed call as many witnesses as they can find, and also searched out witnesses who had never been spoken to before, in an inspired campaign of investigative journalism. This produced the most definitive and significant bank of eyewitness testimony which we will ever have on 9/11 at the Pentagon, because now 18 years later, so much time has gone, and so have some of those people quoted as eyewitnesses by the media, whose testimony may not say what popular opinion and the Official Story tell us it does.

This is what CIT consistently discovered, that eyewitnesses had been misrepresented by the media, had been falsely attributed with quotes that were inserted by journalists which they had never said, and had been misconstrued as being in locations other than where they actually were, altering the line of sight they could potentially have had.

I am so glad that YOU actually DO ADMIT that the black car parked beside the cemetery in the links I have provided, IS INDEED A CAPITOL CAB.

Now you are starting to get somewhere.

If you would carefully study the scores of video frames which reveal a DIAGONAL POLE THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD INTO THE REAR SEAT, you would really know something.

YOU ADMIT THAT MORE THAN ONE CAPITOL CAB WAS ON ROUTE 27.

That is true, even though Lloyde England did not realise this. He stated in a phone interview with Jeff Hill, that his was the only Capitol Cab involved in 9/11. This stunt was pulled off without Lloyde's knowledge.

Do you also then agree that the black car shown simultaneously parked across the lanes on top of the bridge, 37 seconds later in the same video footage, is ALSO A CAPITOL CAB?

So can we agree that there were -

TWO BLACK CAPITOL CABS, STATIONARY, WITHIN 350 YARDS OF EACH OTHER, ON SOUTHBOUND ROUTE 27, AT 9:41 A.M.?

Then move to the amateur video shot simultaneously from the opposite direction, south of the overhead sign on the bridge, facing north, which shows -

TWO FRAMES OF THIS CAPITOL CAB, PARKED ACROSS THE LANES ON THE BRIDGE.

It then shows a black tow truck and black-covered trailer, moving south up onto the bridge, and making a U-turn to the right across it ...

and then shows ...

A BLACK CAPITOL CAB SPEEDING SOUTH OFF THE TOP OF THE BRIDGE, AT 9:45 A.M.

Now back to the first amateur video, shot from the footpath opposite the heliport, looking south to the bridge a couple of minutes later, which shows ...

THE BLACK TOWTRUCK AND EMPTY TRAILER EXITING NORTH ONTO THE NORTHWEST CLOVERLEAF,

WHERE IT UNHITCHED THE TRAILER, as seen in many photos taken later that day,

and continued exiting onto Columbia Pike, as seen in MARK FARAM'S PHOTO taken at about 9:50 a.m.

The second amateur video then shows several frames of LLOYDE ENGLAND'S CAB PARKED ON THE BRIDGE.

THIS SOLVES THE MYSTERY OF THE MOVED TAXI.

4 independent videos, taken simultaneously at the Pentagon within the first 8 minutes of impact, prove this to be true.

Whether or not YOU can see what they reveal.

And No, it was not possible for CIT to get access to Capitol Cab logs for that morning, as the firm had gone bankrupt and been sold before they began their investigation.

But fortuitously, we have hours of valuable, valid eyewitness testimony from LLOYDE ENGLAND, much video recorded by CIT, and corroborated by those 4 videos taken in real time as the cab was being moved, to prove that -

LLOYDE ENGLAND'S CAB WAS HIT BY A POLE WHEN HE WAS NORTH OF THE EXIT SIGN OPPOSITE THE HELIPORT,

and that

LLOYDE ENGLAND'S TAXI WAS THEN MOVED, 350 YARDS SOUTH, TO THE BRIDGE.

Q.E.D.

a reply to: neutronflux
/"You claim a machine shot a light pole into the cab? But none of the witnesses you claim exists mention a light pole being shot into a cab, heard a sound indicative of a pole shot into the cab and breaking glass. Or saw any equipment that could shoot a light pole into a cab which would look like a big artillery piece with a 30 foot pole sticking out?

"You keep taking about video evidence? But the video claim exists doesn’t show a light pole being shot into a cab, doesn’t have the audio sound indicative of a pole shot into a cab and breaking glass. And the video doesn’t contain any equipment that could shoot a light pole into a cab which would look like a big artillery piece with a 30 foot pole sticking out?"

Go right on ahead misrepresenting me as you do, which only shows yourself up.

I have many times stated that the pole that hit Lloyde England's windscreen, was only about 4 inches diameter by 12 feet long.
It was NOT 30 FEET LONG.
It was NOT A LIGHTPOLE.
This was many times confirmed by Lloyde England himself on video.
He verbally described it, identified it with his finger on a photograph, he physically showed its dimensions, he pointed out the 4 inch hole in the lower windshield, he showed CIT the 4 inch impressions on the rear seat, and he also drew the 12 foot pole on a scale diagram.

Nor have I EVER claimed that the videos I cite were taken at the moment of impact.
I have always given the times of events in these 4 videos.
They all began shortly after the impact, and reveal the action from about 3 minutes post impact, to about 9:46 a.m., during which interval the pole was removed from the taxi windshield, and the cab was loaded onto a trailer and moved down the road onto the bridge, where military photographer Jason Ingersoll began taking photos of it from 9:48 a.m.

So of course, there is no "artillery" shown in the videos which would shoot a 30 foot light pole. That suggestion of yours is ludicrous.

The military vehicle which performed the deed of firing the 12 foot pole, is actually captured on numerous videos and 2 photos, if you know what to look for. And several eyewitnesses did see what happened, but were unable to make sense of what they saw, as can be determined from their testimonies.

You are also aware that I have more than once cited EYEWITNESS TONY TERRONEZ, who DID DESCRIBE THE NOISE OF SMASHING GLASS BESIDE HIM, as sonething was "DRIVEN DOWN LIKE A JAVELIN" THROUGH THE WINDSCREEN, as Lloyde England described it, to Jeff Hill in their phone interview. TONY TERRONEZ THEN WENT OVER and SPOKE WITH LLOYDE, and PERFECTLY DESCRIBED THE DAMAGE TO HIS WINDSHIELD, there just north of the heliport.

a reply to: RubyGray

You

I have many times stated that the pole that hit Lloyde England's windscreen, was only about 4 inches diameter by 12 feet long.
It was NOT 30 FEET LONG.

The cite a source and link to it.

So no explanation where the actual light pole ended up of not on the cab.

This was many times confirmed by Lloyde England himself on video.
He verbally described it, identified it with his finger on a photograph, he physically showed its dimensions, he pointed out the 4 inch hole in the lower windshield, he showed CIT the 4 inch impressions on the rear seat, and he also drew the 12 foot pole on a scale diagram.

Really? The guy that changes his story over time?

Nor have I EVER claimed that the videos I cite were taken at the moment of impact.
I have always given the times of events in these 4 videos.
They all began shortly after the impact, and reveal the action from about 3 minutes post impact, to about 9:46 a.m., during which interval the pole was removed from the taxi windshield, and the cab was loaded onto a trailer and moved down the road onto the bridge, where military photographer Jason Ingersoll began taking photos of it from 9:48 a.m.

So you have no actual proof of who’s cab was where. You cannot actually provide a clear photo of the cab with cab number or license plate.

So of course, there is no "artillery" shown in the videos which would shoot a 30 foot light pole. That suggestion of yours is ludicrous.

You missed the point. No witnesses attest to a machine that shot a light pole and the act of a light pole being shot into cad in public spaces? When you have witnesses that you cannot name, but claim they saw the cab here or there?

The military vehicle which performed the deed of firing the 12 foot pole, is actually captured on numerous videos and 2 photos, if you know what to look for. And several eyewitnesses did see what happened, but were unable to make sense of what they saw, as can be determined from their testimonies

I have tried to go to your video, this is where your link goes.

And this is your best visual evidence of the “cab” doing what exactly?

You are also aware that I have more than once cited EYEWITNESS TONY TERRONEZ, who DID DESCRIBE THE NOISE OF SMASHING GLASS BESIDE HIM, as sonething was "DRIVEN DOWN LIKE A JAVELIN" THROUGH THE WINDSCREEN, as Lloyde England described it, to Jeff Hill in their phone interview. TONY TERRONEZ THEN WENT OVER and SPOKE WITH LLOYDE, and PERFECTLY DESCRIBED THE DAMAGE TO HIS WINDSHIELD, there just north of the heliport.

Wouldn’t know. You will not link to an actual source, and quote the individuals of the individual.

You have a bad habit of putting word in people’s mouths, and posting blatant falsehoods like

He said the plane BANKED LEFT.
NO it did not!
It banked RIGHT.

When in reality

The Pentagon Event:
The Honegger Hypothesis Refuted


www.scientistsfor911truth.com...

The plane was rolled to the left, and the left engine hit the low concrete wall almost at ground level there, which was higher than the level of the lawn in the foreground. Given these facts, there is no mystery as to the absence of a gouge in the pristine lawn.

Again. Your false mythology around one light pole doesn’t explain..

The Overall Damage Path
As related by most eyewitnesses, a large plane flew low from the highway over the Pentagon lawn and hit the Pentagon West wall. Descriptions from various witnesses, photographs and FDR data fill in details that include:
 The plane knocked down several light poles
 The left wing finally was tilted down
 The right engine struck a generator trailer
 The left engine struck a low concrete wall
 The plane mostly disappeared into the building
 There was a large fireball
 The façade had a hole 18 ft wide where the plane body is presumed to have hit
 There was a gash 96 ft wide where plane wings would have hit
 The lawn was untouched afterwards except for debris
 Windows above the 18 ft wide hole were unbroken
 The internal column damage indicates the path direction of material and debris flow from the exterior
inwards
 There was a hole in the C ring wall that was roughly circular
 The downed light poles, trailer damage, low concrete wall and façade damage, interior columns
damage, and hole in the C ring are in a straight line
 The direction of this line is in accordance with the radar reports and the FDR file.
The overall appearance of the damage trail is consistent with the passage of a large plane. The façade can be viewed as a giant shredder (steel plus concrete) through which a plane has passed at high speed, further shredding itself by impacting the interior supports and by the edge-on impact with the second floor, and creating inside the building a high velocity flow of material that builds up pressure on the C ring wall until it gives way. A substantial amount of debris flows out through the hole created.
The overall damage trail weighs against the “flyover” theories, the small plane theory (separation of light poles in a direction perpendicular to the path is about 100 ft), and the missile theory. The direction of the damage trail is contrary to a north-of-CITGO path for the plane. To continue to be viable, one must add a staged event to these theories.


www.scientistsfor911truth.com...

You fabricated mythology over property damage to a single light pole has nothing to do with part of the real concern in how the flight crew and passengers of flight 77 ended at the pentagon.

a reply to: RubyGray

Is this light pole you claimed was

THAT POLE HAD TO HAVE BEEN VERY ACCURATELY FIRED INTO THE CAB IN A PREMEDITATED, WELL-REHEARSED, PUNCTILIOUSLY TIMED, CO-ORDINATED MILITARY OPERATION UNDER PENTAGON AUTHORITY.

was only about 4 inches diameter by 12 feet long.

The base is at least eight inches and the light pole is every bit of 16 feet if not twenty. And has a utility pole ID? And has a base like a light pole. With no explanation of that wasn’t the original light pole, where did the original go.



Man. It sure looks like a light pole. And looks lots bigger than 4 inches in diameter by 12 feet. Ruby, you BS’n again?

a reply to: RubyGray

By all accounts, your “4 inches diameter by 12 feet long.” is not the consensus by any means. With no supporting evidence.

LIGHT POLE ANALYSIS: POLES ONE AND TWO

frustratingfraud.blogspot.com...

It's probably not even new, but I've decided the part of pole 1 seen by Lloyd's cab is about 20-23 feet long, missing perhaps ten feet off the top, including the parts where the truss bolts down. Where that top part wound up is something I haven't looked into, but they could be simply the pieces on the road nearby, depending if the straight piece measure out right. It's also possible that a sizable chunk disappeared into the jet's engine (see below), causing the gray smoke visible trailing behind Flight 77 at impact.

Under you attesting to:

This was many times confirmed by Lloyde England himself on video.
He verbally described it, identified it with his finger on a photograph, he physically showed its dimensions, he pointed out the 4 inch hole in the lower windshield, he showed CIT the 4 inch impressions on the rear seat, and he also drew the 12 foot pole on a scale diagram.

Lloyde is not a dependable witness, and you are not an accurate researcher.

a reply to: RubyGray

Oh. I see what you did. You falsely wanted us to believe the pole was small, and wanted to ignore the diameter grew in dimension until it was about eight inches in diameter at the base.

So we are back with you having no proof of a light pole gun that would accept an eight inch base shooting a very real light pole at least twenty foot in length. Most people think the length of pole that hit the cab was more like 30 feet in length. If the light pole in the cab was not the original light pole, where did the original go? Why are their pieces of a light pole around the cab?

a reply to: RubyGray

How can I trust what you post when at this point it seems you literally make crap up as it suits you.

Like trying to walk back in reality to support your fabricated mythology around one light pole there had to be a pole gun with a light pole with a base diameter of 8 inches and at least twenty foot of pole sticking out. Probably closer to thirty feet. Not the, looks nothing like a light pole with only a 4 diameter and 12 foot in length false argument.

Shame on your Ruby.

a reply to: RubyGray

Well, this is interesting?

truthandshadows.com...

In an audio pre-interview for the same CIT video, England is asked by Pickering, “So which piece did you take out of the window?”6

England: “The long piece. The part that was [unintelligible] off the, off the ground.”

Pickering: So it’s the long piece?

England: Yeah, the long piece. See it’s the long piece. See the end on it?

Ranke (to someone in the room): Show him the end.

England: Yeah, this was the piece that was in the ground.

Then, in their 2008 interview, Ranke asks about the length of the pole he is talking about:

Ranke: So, you’re saying, how long do you think the pole was? Approximately?

England: It was sticking out, way over…

Ranke: No, I mean the whole pole.

England: I’d say it was about 30, 40 foot long. … The base of it was in concrete.

Marquis: And to clarify, it was the long piece of the base of the pole.

England: Yes, the long piece that was sticking out across the hood.

In the interview with Hill, England volunteers the size of the pole that he says entered his cab:

England: “I think the pole was about 40 foot long.”

Does all this sound like he’s talking about an 11.5-foot arm on the top of the pole? Incredibly, Coste says this shorter section would appear “long” in comparison to England’s own height.7

a reply to: RubyGray

This has never worked with any conspiracist to date.

Simple questions to start small.

The pentagon was hit by flight 77 just before 9:38am. At what time was the cab hit by a light pole. Before or after the pentagon was hit. What propelled the light pole. What size was the light pole that ended up sticking out of the windshield.

The short piece of pole, which looks like the top section of the pole that was clipped off the main pole by the plane's wing, makes more sense as being what punctured the cab's windscreen for a number of reasons IE the lack of damage to the cab's hood and the fact that it was fairly quickly pulled out and thrown aside by 2 men without the need of winches etc.

The 2 visible sections of pole appear to be the same pole so the light fitting itself shouldn't be very far from there also but I couldn't imagine any investigators actually matching up such things given the drama nearby.

None of that adds up to the cab being relocated for whatever imaginary nefarious purpose though or even the cab, all pieces of pole, broken glass and road damage being moved while we're at it.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: RubyGray

Is this light pole you claimed
was only about 4 inches diameter by 12 feet long.

The base is at least eight inches and the light pole is every bit of 16 feet if not twenty. And has a utility pole ID? And has a base like a light pole. With no explanation of that wasn’t the original light pole, where did the original go.

Man. It sure looks like a light pole. And looks lots bigger than 4 inches in diameter by 12 feet. Ruby, you BS’n again?

Wrong yet again.

How many times have I said it was NOT a lightpole which hit Lloyde England's cab?

Lloyde explained it very clearly himself.

Iin the CIT video, "EYE of the STORM", at about 26 minutes, we have this exchange between Craig Ranke and Lloyde :

CRAIG
Um now your, your car on the road, on the side of the road in this picture WAS RIGHT HERE. [POINTS to BRIDGE]

26:23
LLOYDE
NO IT WASN'T.
MY CAR IS NOT THERE.
NO, MY CAR WAS NOT THERE.
I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DO.
MY CAR WAS AT THE PENTAGON.
MY CAR WAS NOT ACROSS THIS BRIDGE.
NO NO NO! IT WASN'T.
MY CAR WAS BACK HERE.
It was on Route, it was on 27.
NO IT WASN'T.
NO. This pole is beside the ah Cemetery.
The Cemetery is over HERE.
That's where I was.

CRAIG :
All the poles that were down, if your car was over HERE [cemetery], it wasn't by the downed poles, because they're all right here [bridge].

LLOYDE :
That's what THEY SAY.
THAT'S NOT TRUE.
My car was down here.
Regardless of what they say, I was THERE.
I KNOW.
NO. NO. NO. Well the car is back here. I was driving it."


Lloyde was then shown this photograph of the cab on the bridge, with the large lightpole on one side of it, and the 12 foot x 4 inch pole on the other side, behind it.



Lloyde placed his finger on that large lightpole, and 3 separate times, DENIED that this was the pole which hit the cab.







Lloyde then deliberately placed his finger right on that 12 foot x 4 inch pole behind his cab, and identified this as the pole which went through his windscreen.



Here is another photo of that smaller pole.

a reply to: Pilgrum

Hello to a fellow Taswegian! Nice to see you here. I thought I was the only one on the Apple Isle with an interest in this topic.

a reply to: RubyGray

And Lloyde also said,

In an audio pre-interview for the same CIT video, England is asked by Pickering, “So which piece did you take out of the window?”6

England: “The long piece. The part that was [unintelligible] off the, off the ground.”

Pickering: So it’s the long piece?

England: Yeah, the long piece. See it’s the long piece. See the end on it?

Ranke (to someone in the room): Show him the end.

England: Yeah, this was the piece that was in the ground.

Then, in their 2008 interview, Ranke asks about the length of the pole he is talking about:

Ranke: So, you’re saying, how long do you think the pole was? Approximately?

England: It was sticking out, way over…

Ranke: No, I mean the whole pole.

England: I’d say it was about 30, 40 foot long. … The base of it was in concrete.

Marquis: And to clarify, it was the long piece of the base of the pole.

England: Yes, the long piece that was sticking out across the hood.

In the interview with Hill, England volunteers the size of the pole that he says entered his cab:

England: “I think the pole was about 40 foot long.”

Does all this sound like he’s talking about an 11.5-foot arm on the top of the pole? Incredibly, Coste says this shorter section would appear “long” in comparison to England’s own height.7

truthandshadows.com...

Did Lloyde say the above? Sate true or false.

Lloyde has change his story several times. Is that false?

Lloyde out of wanting to be recognized seems to change his story to suit whoever interviews him. That seems to be the pattern. I don’t think Lloyde is very credible.

Then CIT manipulates their witnesses. As proven by Lloyde flip flopping on the length of the pole.

Why the CIT Analysis of the Pentagon Event on 9/11 Should Be Rejected Outright By David Chandler

911speakout.org...

The methodology at work in the CIT interviews is to distract a witnesses from an actual, vivid memory of a plane impacting a building, and soliciting, or even planting by suggestion, a minor secondary detail. This sets the stage for the witness to reconstruct or elaborate on the actual memories to “fill in the gaps” or to satisfy the questioner. That detail is then elevated to be considered the single most significant element of the testimony, and used to discount both the primary memory and the physical evidence. The witnesses themselves are then declared to have been deceived about the discordant elements of their testimony. The witnesses may come back and protest loudly that the one thing they know for certain is that the plane actually hit the building, but such protestations are ignored. When interviews are conducted in this manner, whatever the reason, the conclusions have no claim to any validity and should be dismissed.

CIT interviews are shady and pretty much useless.

You

I have many times stated that the pole that hit Lloyde England's windscreen, was only about 4 inches diameter by 12 feet long.
It was NOT 30 FEET LONG.
It was NOT A LIGHTPOLE.

It is very clear there are broken pieces of light pole, and what hit the cab no matter the length was part of a light pole.


Pilgrum said it best:

None of that adds up to the cab being relocated for whatever imaginary nefarious purpose though or even the cab, all pieces of pole, broken glass and road damage being moved while we're at it.

You are caught in more falsehoods.

a reply to: RubyGray

Now. Out of intellectual honesty, please specifically answer:

This has never worked with any conspiracist to date.

Simple questions to start small.

The pentagon was hit by flight 77 just before 9:38am. At what time was the cab hit by a light pole. Before or after the pentagon was hit. What propelled the light pole. What size was the light pole that ended up sticking out of the windshield.

Note: add on. The piece in the photo that you circled is part of a light pole. True or false.

a reply to: RubyGray

Howdy
I wasn't even aware of controversy related to 9/11 events until I found ATS over a decade ago so it's been interesting reading ever since then indeed. I doubt we'd agree on most of the events so let's just agree that we're well located at the very least!