Holocaust denier thread

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posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 10:31 PM
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I didn't really know what to name this thread, so I called it the holocaust denier thread. What I don't get is all these people out there (seemingly suddenly) who deny the holocaust happened. Who the hell honestly thinks the holocaust didn't happen?!! HELLO?

It happened.

I don't believe the numbers of dead always being bandied about.. but how can anyone honestly believe the holocause did not happen?

I think roughly 4 million jews were murdered and 2 or 3 million homosexuals and gypsies were also killed. They are rarely ever mentioned in the count.

What do you think? Is this whole new conspiracy thing not crazy?




posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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This thing was on my mind.. I didn't have any links to crazy articles before me when I started this. There are plenty out there, though, if anyone's interested.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 10:40 PM
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So, I just checked and noticed that there have been 17 views, and no comments...

Interesting?

Am I the only one out there who is hearing about his nonsense that the holocaust never happened?

What I wanna know, is why anyone would be so stupid as to promote that view?



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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I really have no info to confirm or deny it.

I HAVE LEARNED,however, never assume what media and society tells you to be real.

Motives for denying holocaust happened? That it was faked?
I dont know...
Faked in order to secure critical land strategy...Israel...
Defame Nazi loyalists and reverse brainwash the facist countries masses.
Hide something.
I dont know.
Just off the top of my head.

Research dear boy/girl and enlighten us, as you seem to be rearing to discuss this topic.

By the way:
WESTCOAST over here! lol! kidding...

[edit on 1/2/2006 by theBLESSINGofVISION]



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by theBLESSINGofVISION
By the way:
WESTCOAST over here! lol! kidding...
1
Oh you wanna get into an EastvWest thang? DontEvenTryit, homes!



If you want to check out what I'm talkin about, there's a lot of info. on this at RENSE.com. It's bigger than what you think. And equally and incredibly out there.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 11:18 PM
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All I know about the holocaust is what I have seen in movies.

Because I didn't grew up in the US, the holocaust back home was no as a big thing as here in the US.

So is hard for me to have an opinion.

At least the movies looks pretty real to me.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 11:30 PM
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There are a lot of people out there who seem to think it did not happen, or at least not on the scale we all learned it did.

To me, it seems inconcievable to even suggest it did not happen. There is documentary proof, afterall, that we have all seen. And I have personally listened to eyewitness testimony.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043

All I know about the holocaust is what I have seen in movies.



is that the one where Tom cruise becomes a samurai and stops the holocaust ?. I love Steven Spielberg




posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:38 AM
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it's nearly impossible to say anything against the holocaust without being labeled an "antisemite". personaly i hate this term, it refers to people from a location in the middle east. most jew cannot tie any actual heritage to that region, most come from a more northern region near the caspian sea. that is why many jews are white instead of brown.

as for the holocaust, i havn't come across many people who outright deny it, what i do see a fair amount of is revisionists. these people want to revise the severity of what is believed happened, for many reasons.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
So, I just checked and noticed that there have been 17 views, and no comments...

Interesting?

Am I the only one out there who is hearing about his nonsense that the holocaust never happened?

What I wanna know, is why anyone would be so stupid as to promote that view?



I'm sorry ECK I've been in the office most of the day or I would have jumped right onto this thread because I've noticed a wave of ATS posts lately concerning how the holocaust "never happened'

I think its a bunch of bull and I really support you bringing this up as the junk it is. We don't often agree but all the same you just got a WATS vote from me for this one.

Heres some links to some holocaust denail on ATS:

www.abovetopsecret.com... = Probably the best evidence. You got two posters. One says the holocaust was a secondary minor result of WW2 and the other busting out "zion land" and other great anti semetic things.

www.abovetopsecret.com... = Whole thread example

www.abovetopsecret.com... = Single Post

www.abovetopsecret.com... = Pretty Good Example of Denial



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 07:08 AM
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What gets me is the selectivity in jailing Holocaust deniers. Zundel gets 50 years, but do you think they'll lock up Mel's Dad?



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 07:10 AM
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Is number of labour force used by the germans and kille by allied bombardments counted on the total died by the holocaust??

I believe so to let it look more dramatic but we forget that many people died by these alied bombing runs on the cities of germany I see that as mass murder milions of people died in these bombing runs. but yeah let us forget that. and let us count all of these people killed in these runs on the total number just as they did.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by MarkLuitzen
Is number of labour force used by the germans and kille by allied bombardments counted on the total died by the holocaust??


Can you specify or define labour force, MarkLuitzen?
The vast majority of Jews, undesirables, those deemed 'unfit', and sub-humans were in concentration and death camps before the Allies began doing regular massive bombing raids on Germany.





seekerof



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 08:54 AM
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I wonder how can something that has been documented, photographed and exposed can be denied.

Hitler was real, documented and just like the holocaust he was known very well in Europe.

I don't see anybody denying him. Right?

I guess the whole issue of denying the holocaust has been overblown to prove a point.

It sounds perhaps as ridiculous as denying that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor or that the 9/11 never happen.

just an opinion.

Or the whole issue could be that the same people that are been blame from the denial like Iran is just trying to prove a point when it comes to the war on terror and what they consider a persecution of muslin around the world occurs in their views.

Take for instance what is going in on in some nations in Europe like France and UK the recent problems and attacks by radicals are prompting a response by the government of those countries.

Even I feel that they should gather all of them and send them back to their country of origin where perhaps they will feel happier.

I guess this is just another issue, just my two cents.

I do not want to start a bashing on muslins now this is just a view.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by MarkLuitzen
I believe so to let it look more dramatic but we forget that many people died by these alied bombing runs on the cities of germany I see that as mass murder milions of people died in these bombing runs. but yeah let us forget that. and let us count all of these people killed in these runs on the total number just as they did.





Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Germany start the war? I mean calling the Allied bombing of Germany 'Mass Murder' is simply ignoring history all together. Guess you can deny the Holocaust if you deny Germanies responsiblity for WWII and the deaths that occured because of the war.
It amazes me how people can have such selective memories.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 10:02 AM
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Ok befor i start i want to point out that i believe the holocaust happend, a great number of jews, gypies, homosexuals, russians etc. died in nazi death camps.
First of all have the numbers been exagerated? Well at the end of WW2
jehovah's witnesses calimed to have sufferd over a million deaths, in later years they exact number was found and it was 157. If they could exagerate the numbers to that extent who is to say that other ethnic groups couldnt do the same?
Second of all just another few points to make, none of the nazi death camps where on german soil. Auschwitz was in poland. Also i watched a doco in high school history that presented the idea that hitler did now know about the death camps. Hitler as we all know thought he was a military genuis, he had alot on his hands. From producing a great war machine, to brainwashing his countries masses, building the german economy, etc. He himself i doubt had time to see over everything. Now who is to say that people under hitler, went over him to create the deaths camps. It is known that the nazi's burned alot of documents befor the end of the war, but out of all of them we had found only one document refering to the killing of jews, and that was hitler mentioning in a document the "final solution". But the final solution could of also referd to other nazi war plans for all we know.

We all know the great saying "history is told my the victors", and this is what has happend in ww2. Dont deny the truth.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Hello, wang.
Is 'proof' of the murder someone, such as Hitler, Heydrich, Himmler, Eichmann, etc., signing a form authorizing the death of millions? There was no such form. These murderers were smart enough not to leave their signed names on such authorizing paperwork. What was left is now contained in the German WWII and Holocaust archives, well-documented and meticulously kept. As such, the German government has never argued or debated over the numbers murdered. Now why is that?

Accordingly, while the decision to murder millions was already authorized, the planning, organization, and implementation of the Final Solution took place at the Wannsee Conference. Furthermore, the decision for the deportation [mass] of the vast majority of Jews from Europe [Germany, France, etc.] to the East [Poland, etc] was decided at this conference, along with their murders.

People can argue numbers all they like, but I do find it ironic that the German government does not, then again, they are the ones who do maintain those WWII concentration and death camp documentations and records now contained within the German Archives, so they should know better than anyone, eh?

Originally posted by wang
Dont deny the truth.






seekerof

[edit on 3-1-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 11:04 AM
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Well your point has two sides to it seekerof.
Democracy won in germany, why would the democratic germany sympathize and try to even surport the german national socialist party?
If the numbers were smaller that first told, i doubt a democratic germany would argue it.
Also your post also helped prove my theory, hitler was not present at the conferance, yes im sure you can link him to himmler, heydrich and others and say he had a influence. But if this was in todays court of law hitler would get off scott free with the small amount of evidence of his knowledge of the death camps.
Also just to add to the thread, why dont we get told in school about what happend in the ukraine befor and during ww2? The "silent holocaust" and the numbers of victims over the reign of the stalin communist party and the german nazi party was over the 10million mark. Yet we are constantly told souly about the jews who died during this time.
This is where i think a conspiracy shows through.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by wang
Well your point has two sides to it seekerof.
Democracy won in germany, why would the democratic germany sympathize and try to even surport the german national socialist party?
If the numbers were smaller that first told, i doubt a democratic germany would argue it.

I will say it again, so that perhaps you will understand the implications of what I am saying here: Paper tells no lie. The German Archives are the main and only source for the numbers of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, homosexuals, etc, etc. murdered by the then Fascists German government. What you and others fail to admit, realize, or simply ignore/bypass, is that the German people have always, always been notorious for their meticulous record keeping abilities. The Holocaust was no exception and no matter the government in power. Again, paper tells no lie.




Also your post also helped prove my theory, hitler was not present at the conferance, yes im sure you can link him to himmler, heydrich and others and say he had a influence. But if this was in todays court of law hitler would get off scott free with the small amount of evidence of his knowledge of the death camps.

I highly doubt it.
First off, if Hitler had survived, he would have hung or been sentenced to death as the vast majority of his murdering gang of thugs. You have no proof to back your assertion that Hitler knew "little" of what took place in those concentration camps and death camps. If you do, please provide it. Be assured, Mein Kampf would have been slammed in his face as proof of probable cause. Furthermore, those underneath Hitler--Heydrich, Himmler, Eichmann, Goering, etc.-- feared Hitler, feared him enough that they did not do anything without his approval or authority, written or spoken.




Also just to add to the thread, why dont we get told in school about what happend in the ukraine befor and during ww2? The "silent holocaust" and the numbers of victims over the reign of the stalin communist party and the german nazi party was over the 10million mark. Yet we are constantly told souly about the jews who died during this time.
This is where i think a conspiracy shows through.

Because there has only been one Holocaust. There have been a great number of genocides. Attend a college level Holocaust class or history of Europe or History of Russia class and you will hear and learn of such as you mention. Other than the Holocaust, what you mention concerning the other genocides are not or seldom taught on a high school or lower level.






seekerof

[edit on 3-1-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:29 PM
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Back in the late '60's when my father was stationed in Germany, he had the oppourtunity to visit one of the death camps that was left standing as a memorial (I don't know which one, I was only a wee laddie of 5 months or so). He has told me on a number of occaisions, that nearly 20 years after the fact, you could still smell the death and corruption. The actual numbers of the murdered by the nazi deathcamps, and affiliated groups in eastern Europe may never actually be known with any certainty. The nazi's were however, meticulus record keepers, so the numbers therein are most certainly very close to the right number.
The deniers take advantage of errors by researchers made earlier, and corrected later, by claiming ahah if that was an error maybe the holocaust to was a clerical error and did not actually happen.





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