A little lesson in spelling and grammar

Originally posted by Astyanax
Yes, I am punctilious about grammar, or at least I try to be. I do this for the same reason that I take some care over my dress and grooming. Poor grammar and spelling are not foolproof indicators of low intelligence or imperfect education, but they are pretty reliable. At all accounts they suggest that the writer is not someone to be taken seriously*. The only exception to this is the case of one speaking or writing in a language not his own.

*For reasons too obvious, tedious and multifarious to recount here.

* I resemble that remark. Or is it just a mark.

Grammar is evolutionary. Change is a good thing... No: really it is!

MonKey

I have taken my stance alrady. I simply reply to a thread without replying to any specific post. Helps me to take everything seriously and summarize my thoughts. There's a barrier of understanding that I do require if I am to actually reply. I don't know what it is exactly, but there are a few jewels in posts that are obviously written by somebody who doesn't exactly know spelling and grammar very well.

I don't, either; english is not my native language.

When I think of it, there are a thousand posts not worth replying when grammar is criteria.. uhm. hmm. perhaps I'll think this over.

Originally posted by ChiKeyMonKey
*I resemble that remark. Or is it just a mark.

Nothing wrong with your spelling or grammar.

And you're right, grammar does evolve. More than that, it's a creative medium, one I notice you enjoy using to good advantage whenever you see the chance. But this isn't evolution we're talking about here: it's disease, rot. Confused spelling and incompetence with apostrophies don't move language along, they clog it; they impede the passage of meaning and frustrate creativity.

Just to digress, I had the good fortune to grow up with a couple of guys who invented a big chunk of the youth vernacular of my generation and country. They were in school with me. The usages they coined were taken up by the rest of the school, and just spread from there. It was amazing to watch the process in action -- and I was jealous as hell too, fancying myself a bit in the same line.

Mind you, I couldn't prove a word of this story...

reply to post by Astyanax


I have experienced exactly the same thing, only difference being that I invented some sayings that are now in widespread use. One phrase, one swearword.. something else, too. But it doens't really bother me that I cannot prove that. I learned people's attitudes towards that a long time ago. After I mentioned about it once, I have never done so again.

Maybe people who are very adapt in learning languages invent these things more often, I don't know. I learned english by reading without a dictionary. I suppose TV made it possible; I watched it rarely enough so that I remembered words. We have a translation at the bottom of our TV screen.


[edit on 12/3/08 by rawsom]

reply to post by rawsom

My heartiest congratulations on your English, then. The only clue that it might not be your first language is the cerebral formality of your style, though even that isn't very different from a good many native English speakers. I didn't even notice until you pointed it out.

I took French lessons a good many years ago, learned to read and write quite well but not to speak or understand speech; the accent defeated me. Now I'm getting better, because I play lead guitar in a band otherwise composed of French expatriates. When I first joined they were very kind; at practice, they politely communicated in halting English for my benefit. This made me feel terribly guilty, but they soon gave it up because it was so hard for them. Now they only speak English when they're addressing me directly; sometimes they even forget to do that. As a result my spoken-French comprehension has improved out of all recognition and I'm even daring to speak a few halting, stuttering phrases.

Among non-native English speakers, the most amazing performance (one for the ages) has got to be Nabokov's. The thought that he wrote Lolita and Pale Fire in -- not his second, but his third language -- never ceases to stagger me.

Best way to learn a foreign language? Use a 'sleeping dictionary'. Even if your facility with the language remains modest, you'll have other consolations.

reply to post by Astyanax


What exactly is a 'sleeping dictionary'?

If that's one of those tapes you listen to when you're asleep, what is the reason behind it to actually work?

I have seen just some shopping-TV-level of commercials about it, so I am quite a skeptic about it.

In what way should a tape be done for it to actually work? Does it have a difference in learning when you hear 'X means Y' or just a reduced 'X Y'. Or maybe somebody records it so that larger constructs are used. 'English X Finnish Y' or 'In english X means Y'. There must be a correct way to record this if one is to efficiently learn words and language better.

reply to post by rawsom
A sleeping dictionary is a native speaker of the language you wish to learn, who is happy to share your bed.



[edit on 13-3-2008 by Astyanax]

reply to post by Rouschkateer


This is going to sound bad, but you make good points....


The last time i learned something worthwhile in an English Class was back in the 7th grade... i am a junior in College now...


Also some stuff abou tmy teachers, may be unrealeted, may explain everything... My 7th grade teacher was a Man in his 30's.... every teacher i have had since then was a least 65+ years old, and female...

Mabye my 7th grade teacher just rocked, because every year since then we have been going over the same things... and NEVER learning anything new.