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Mexico retaliates for US wall. What?

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posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo

Would you care to try and creatively bend my words any further?


I could ask the same of you, you make it seem as if Im implying the US is on an agenda to destroy any and all people of Mexican heritage - that is not what I said.

I asked how is it any different from what the Nazis would do. Do you honestly believe they wouldn't kill people attempting to enter their "Purified" homeland? I did not once say it is something the Nazis did do, or that in anyway the United States is on a genocidal agenda.

I just think peoples eagerness to wantonly kill others is just sick, but I can't force or prove your opinion to be wrong.

Have you thought of applying your own practices to yourself should you ever be in that same situation?

For arguements sake, let's say something catastrophic occurred on US soil, and this has caused the economy to collapse - along with that living conditions have gone to hell and the government is unable to deal with the crisis on a national scale. Would you deem it right and just for Canadians to open fire on US citizens trying to escape a situation they deem uninhabitable?



[edit on 21/12/05 by Conquistadork]




posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 02:07 PM
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You just keep the Non-sequiturs rolling and continue your disingenuious line of questioning. I'm done with this thread and with you. NOTHING you have posted has anything to do with any of your previous arguments. Until you are able to enter into a rational and logical debate I suspect others will continue to ignore you as well.

You compared the US to Nazi Germany whereas one has nothing to do with the other - it was simply a disingenuious attempt to smear the US. I corrected you using rationale, logic AND FACTS. You attempted, wrongly so, to insinuate that I would imply that the US indiscriminantly kill innocent people- I did not. I advocated for border protection against illegal invaders. Finally you want to insult me with some silly 'What if" scenario that has no basis for comparison to what we are discussing - again you bend my words. If there were some conditions in Mexico that made it uninhabitable, the US would most certainly offer safe haven and assistance to Mexico - as we have done for countless other nations during their time of need.

I mean, this is going well past ridiculous!
Like I said, when you are ready to have a genuine debate on the matter - we can talk. Until then have a nice day!



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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how isn't the shoot to kill orders, electric fences, guard towers - different from anything the Nazis would've implemented.


My original statement. It's a shame you rush straight to trying to discredit those who don't share the same sentiments as you. Again, not once did I say the US is on a Nazi like agenda, I simply asked you how it differs from something the Nazis - would've - done. I have enjoyed this debate from the start, and still am.

As I said earlier, I'm not going to repost something I said two - three pages ago because you won't go back to read it. It's your elitist behavior that really takes the fun out of these things. Your notion of your "End all Know all" opinion really makes trying to prove anything to you pointless, but for the sake of the thread I won't hijack trying to prove this to you.

Again, these are opinions, and no one is forced to subscribe to any one persons opinion.

As for the IM problem itself, I would rather see an escalation of patrols with UAV support before anything like this "Wall of Death" so many people are eager to implement.

I came here to share my opinion on the situation Kozmo, and I've done exactly that.


Kozmo: we could run electricity through it and post guard towers every couple of hundred yards with "Shoot to kill" orders.


Oh, and by the way, you did call for "Shoot to Kill" orders, which insinuates killing any and all who come close to the border and attempt to pass through illegaly. Either keep your call for an immediate solution involving murder the same or choose a different one, but don't tweak it to fit your arguement and make your image better.


[edit on 21/12/05 by Conquistadork]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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I, too, come here to share my opinions. Just as you accuse me of disrespecting your opinion, can you not see how you have done the same with mine? Clever word games, as you have done with the Nazi comparison, will not earn you credit here, friend. Nor will it earn you a pass. I expect dissenting opinions - this is a free forum with many perspectives. However, when one offers non-sequiturs as a foundation for an arguemnt against my opinion, they are foolish to think that it will go unchallenged. It is NOT your agreement that I seek, Conquistadork, it is honesty and genuiness in your presentation of your arguments or response to my own. Just as others have opened my eyes to new perspectives, so too can your eyes be opened - when you are willing to acknowledge the facts and apply lagic and sound reasoning.

So, we can simply agree to disagree. Merry Christmas, Happy Hilodays and a Happy New Year to you and yours. May God Bless you.




posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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These are my honest opinions, and again you can't or refuse to grasp that I am in no way labeling the US as a Nazi like machine, rather that this wall is reminiscent of something the Nazis would do.

As I posted a while ago English is not my first language so if you could explain to me the meaning of Non-sequiturs it would be greatly appreciated. I never meant to offend anyone with my opinion, and I'm sure you meant the same, but you seemed to agressive and meticulous in trying to tear apart my opinion that I took it as you trying to force yours onto me.

I'm glad that we can understand eachother, I did indeed understand your stance throughout this little spat, I just did not agree with it, and wanted to try and make mine as clear as possible.

I hope a solution is reached soon, because as I posted earlier in the thread, I wholely agree with everyone that something needs to be done to stem the tide of IMs to the US, I just wish people would consider other options before jumping straight to the "Build a wall, shoot them on sight" stance.

I never play word games Kozmo, I say what I mean, and although it may not come across correctly, I try my best each time to make sure it does. I've struggled with English all my life, and I admit I am wrong in getting angry when I have trouble explaining myself or my opinions, and I let that get the better of me when I tried explaining myself to you.

I apologize if I came across the wrong way, but my stance does not change and my opinion still stands.

[edit on 21/12/05 by Conquistadork]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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I also apologize... I had no idea that English was not your first language. You seem to have an amazing grasp of it
.

A Non-Sequitur describes a type of fallacious (Meaning wrong; illogical) argument. A non-sequitur is defined as "In logic, a conclusion which does not follow from it's premise." Put simply, the foundation of the argument has nothing to do with the argument itself.

And yes, I am very passionate about my beliefs and tend to hold them perhaps a little too dearly. I am trying to be open to other people's opinions, however, I cannot accept them when they lack a foundation in logic. I think I simply misunderstood what you were trying to say - I apologize.

Keep up the good work with your English.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
The Mexicans see all of the Southwestern US as their land, that’s why the Mexican government is HELPING and promoting ILLEGAL immigration into the US. They think that they have a right to just waltz in here if they feel like it. Then they complain when we try to protect our national sovereignty and enforce OUR border.


The Southwest!? They think they own whatever part of the contry they slither in to. I'm in the midwest & illegals are a problem here. I want to know why it is we can deport these criminals when they are caught beyong the 300 miles mark (whatever they call that). If were worried about using tax dollars to ship them home, i'll be happy to drive some into a nice quiet corner of the planet & drop hem off where they can't bother law abiding citzens.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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It is comforting that we can come to a civil conclusion to this Kozmo, It is understandable that we are both very adamant about our own opinions, and I think it is clear that we both need to work harder on fixing that.

I'm glad that even though we don't see eye to eye on the situation, that we can still treat eachother fairly. I look forward to seeing you on the battlefield again sometime, hopefully by then we'll both be prepared to better handle anothers opinion



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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Conquistadork,
What part of the country are you in? I apologize if I did not catch it earlier.
And how long have you lived there?



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
I have said it before and I will say it again.
I want a 10 foot wall along our boarder. I want a mine field in front of that wall. I want snipers and machine gunners posted on the wall. I want Apaches flying along that wall. I want any person coming within 500 yards of that wall to be shot.
After a month of this the illegal immigration won't be a problem.

I agree with everything you said here. Really pisses me of. When Cubans come here once they step foot in American soil, they have more aid & help than people living here all of their lives. Come here legally or dont come at all. Oh yeah and LEARN THE DAMN LANGUAGE!!



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:14 PM
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Irishmen, I am currently attending school in Buffalo, New York, and I have been here for a little bit more than 9 years.

Princeea, it is much more difficult to learn a tongue not native to your region, much more so if you don't have the means to learn it through an organized education system, which most of these people don't.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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Mexico retaliates for a US wall!
Mexico retaliates for a US wall!
Oh! Gosh! This is so hilarious, I can't even think straight!


I just got this to say!
Go right ahead!
Retaliate all you want!


I only have one disagreement with you American Mad Man. To hell with a 10 ft. wall. IMHO, a 300 yd. wide mine feild with night and day Super Cobra patrols should suffice, wouldn't you think? We need the snipers in Iraq and Afganistan at this moment.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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Princeea, it is much more difficult to learn a tongue not native to your region, much more so if you don't have the means to learn it through an organized education system, which most of these people don't.


I disagree, you learn a language better and faster when you are living around people who speak it every day. When you are forced to either learn it, or shut yourself away, you will learn the language faster then any school program could teach you. I took Spanish for 4 years and I still can only hold a casual conversation, it’s not that I didn't want to learn the language, it’s just the fact that I don't live with or around people that speak Spanish. If I never get to speak what I read form some textbook the words are meaningless to me.

In most of these South Western areas the local government is required to write stuff both in English and Spanish. This makes people feel that they don't need to learn English to get by.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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Well, I've only been here for 9 years and I'm 19 as it is, and English is a very complex language, especially for those who don't have the means to learn it. As adults, our native tongue is so engrained in our mind that it is in fact much harder to learn a new one as you get older. That is why schools want to begin teaching new languages earlier, as it is much easier for younger children, who are still learning English, to also learn another language.

While that is true Westpoint, that doesn't make it any easier. The technicalities, grammar, tenses are nothing alike.

[edit on 21/12/05 by Conquistadork]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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As adults, our native tongue is so engrained in our mind that it is in fact much harder to learn a new one as you get older. That is why schools want to begin teaching new languages earlier, as it is much easier for younger children, who are still learning English, to also learn another language.


That I agree with, the younger you are the easier it is to learn a new language.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 09:29 PM
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Hi Zoso28
It is a shame your thread has turned into a private battle field. It's a good article and update.
I don't think a wall will help, I believe we need politicians who are willing to enforce equal rights. As soon as these people from what ever country they may come from, are presented the same responsibility we have as citizens they turn around and run home, crying Momma.. If they have to pay taxes, pay for education and there spouses must prove themselves elligable as providers, they are out of here in few months.
Demand mandatory registration with finger prints of every person applying for a dr. license, and every employer must report his employee, make it illigal to hire illigal residents, that's how it is in Europe at least in Scandinavia. It works. There are some loop holes, especially at sea, but they are being closed.
Some one said I am a legal allien, got that a little wrong, I was born in Philly, grew up on the skirts of the Appelecian Mountains, and lived in Scandinavia for many years. Now I want to go home. I know all about being re-placed. My Dad was a refugie from Hungary in '57, he and Mom immigrated (legally) to the US. And returned to Denmark where Mom was from(personal health reasons). But what I am saying is Dad could not just go back, his farm was taken from him, he didn't have a HOME until he died.
I haven't had a home either, because I was a "stranger"
Now I AM home.
Yes we should care for our poor nieghbors but what about our own?
Does any one have a # on the amount illigals?
Are there any politicians who are anti illigals?
This nation is made of immigrants, people who where, are devoted to this country, let it stay that way, make them contribute, make them pay or send them back.
Yes grevious mistakes where made when America was born, no doubt, but please let us discuss today have a perspective of now?
I don't wish to grow bitter and hateful but something is wrong.
I will devote the rest of my life to equal immigration laws, if I must do it in "exile" so it be. Every day I see illigal im's across the road laugh at my efforts to unite my family. That causes hate in our little nieghborhood.People like me, I work hard, I contribute to our daily life here, keep my yard (God knows I hate it) I give a hand where I can. And they look at the Illigal family and say "Hay, these people don't even say hello"
I live up north, but we have our share of Illigals, why do they come here? they don't wan't to learn English, no we have to be able to understand them

they are completely indiffirent to the locals.
Ok totally off topic, SORRY
WIS

[edit on 21-12-2005 by WalkInSilence]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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The wall does not have to be expensive. Simply hire Mexicans to build it. Just saved 2/3 of the estimated price right there. It is all about business management.




posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by Conquistadork
Princeea, it is much more difficult to learn a tongue not native to your region, much more so if you don't have the means to learn it through an organized education system, which most of these people don't.


Spanish and English are not dramatically different.

Perhaps if they came here LEGALLY they could learn it through an organized education system, eh?



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:39 AM
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With the state of education in most of the areas these IMs go to do you really think that would make a difference?

I came here speaking spanish all my life, you can't tell me English isn't hard to learn.


[edit on 22/12/05 by Conquistadork]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 02:01 AM
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Considering the USA stole territories from mexico ages ago...the mexicans kind of have a right to come here. I dont know why people complain so much..a lot of the time these illegals do crappy jobs that americans dont even want to do. And if i'm not mistaken, didn't the pilgrims come here and take over this country illegally? The real americans were the native americans/mexicans.....It's funny how the US doesn't like the taste of it's own medicine..

[edit on 22-12-2005 by Spawwwn]




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