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Mexico retaliates for US wall. What?

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posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by Conquistadork
With the state of education in most of the areas these IMs go to do you really think that would make a difference?


Then why come here in the first place?

And yes, I think that getting a textbook and spending a few years in a classroom - no matter how poor the teacher - plus having to speak the language on an every day basis would make a difference.



I came here speaking spanish all my life, you can't tell me English isn't hard to learn.


Actually, I have to correct what I said.

As a native speaker of English, Spanish is easy to learn. As a native speaker of just about any other language, English is probably difficult to learn.


In any case, Illegals shouldn't need to learn the language (English) BECAUSE THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN OUR DAMNED COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE!




posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Conquistadork
With the state of education in most of the areas these IMs go to do you really think that would make a difference?


Then why come here in the first place?

And yes, I think that getting a textbook and spending a few years in a classroom - no matter how poor the teacher - plus having to speak the language on an every day basis would make a difference.



I came here speaking spanish all my life, you can't tell me English isn't hard to learn.


Actually, I have to correct what I said.

As a native speaker of English, Spanish is easy to learn. As a native speaker of just about any other language, English is probably difficult to learn.


In any case, Illegals shouldn't need to learn the language (English) BECAUSE THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN OUR DAMNED COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE!


Well, ask yourself what they do come here for, and you'll have answered your own question. It certainly isn't to learn English.

As it stands, most IMs already have an established family member or friend in the US that would be more than willing to help them in understanding English when it comes to the bare neccessities - why learn when you can have someone tell you what you need to know?



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by Conquistadork
Well, ask yourself what they do come here for, and you'll have answered your own question. It certainly isn't to learn English.


The answere is simple. To take advantage of the US.


As it stands, most IMs already have an established family member or friend in the US that would be more than willing to help them in understanding English when it comes to the bare neccessities - why learn when you can have someone tell you what you need to know?


Self reliance? Self sufficiency? Being able to watch HBO and know what the heck some guy is getting wacked for on the Sopranos? Come on... I have done business in European nations - and have been to a few for under a month - and I try to learn as much of the language as I can, not knowing if I will ever go back. These people LIVE here!



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 02:23 AM
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Unfortuneately the case is people will bend to the needs of others in order to generate/conserve profit.

Think about it, do you think if the local supermarket didn't have signs in both English and Spanish that it would be getting the majority of the buisness it does?

It's complacency and corruption that is the problem here, not the IMs themselves. They're here as a result of the aforementioned problems, hardly taking advantage of the US, just benefitting from a system that bends to them, rather than them bending to the system.

Sad really.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by Conquistadork
It's complacency and corruption that is the problem here, not the IMs themselves. They're here as a result of the aforementioned problems, hardly taking advantage of the US, just benefitting from a system that bends to them, rather than them bending to the system.

Sad really.


I believe the responsibility lies ultimately with the individual...They make a choice to not learn English. However, I do agree it doesn't help that we cater to them.

In any case, you call it benefiting and I call it taking advantage of. It's the same really - they come here to exploit this nation for a better life. I have no problem with that - we all came here at one point or another to exploit the opertunities this nation offers. I just want it done legally.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man

I just want it done legally.


Couldn't have said it better myself.


I just want it done minus any wall or sniper patrols with Super Cobra helicopters or whatever other ridiculousness was suggested before.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by Conquistadork
I just want it done minus any wall or sniper patrols with Super Cobra helicopters or whatever other ridiculousness was suggested before.


I think any Illegal thinking about entering the US would find it rediculous to attempt crossing the boarder if such messures were taken.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 06:41 AM
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I agree with american madman on almost everything he's said..

my opinion is straight and to the point....

Put up the wall......place seismic sensors within a mile of our side of it.....with no housing.............for those moles who try to cheat it.

I have no problem with mexicans/latinos, whatever.....but for cryin out loud, if you want to take jobs here, fine...there are jobs that people here won't do because they are too fat and lazy........

but for the love of everything holy.....if you are going to live here.....

LEARN THE LANGUAGE..........

LEARN......................THE......................LANGUAGE


I live in michigan.....some 3,000 miles from the border, and all i see is a eng/mex mix everytime i go into anyplace.....and it's ridiculous.

ever walk into a walmart now? every sign is in english and spanish, the labels on the boxes are english on one side, and spanish on the other....

why? why? why?


like i said, i have nothing against LEGAL immigration, hell, i'm half irish, born and bred here.....but at least we did it right. land of the free...not half and half.

i worked retail for awhile, and i would CONSTANTLY get latino's coming up to me asking questions for things....but using thier 7 year old as a translator.

i had numerous latinos come up and ask me if i "speaka spanish?"
i said no, you speaka english?

that is the biggest gripe i have.

if i went to germany, france, spain, italy, ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD for that matter.......................you don't think they would just drop everything to start speaking another language do you?...now granted, english is adopted in small part in other coutries do to buisness relations, but not living necessity. if a latino moves to italy, you don't expect them to drop italian and start speaking spanish do you?

i'm not racist.......i'm for fair and legal crossings...then i say go for it.....but at least try to have some dignity and a sense of right and wrong, and get a green card instead of crossing in the night like theives.

there are 85 year old women in southern california, or nm, i can never remember which, which are ARMED and watching the border....that's all they do.

i see that as we have hit desperate times....

build the wall....maybe then they will get the point.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by Spawwwn
Considering the USA stole territories from mexico ages ago...the mexicans kind of have a right to come here. I dont know why people complain so much..a lot of the time these illegals do crappy jobs that americans dont even want to do. And if i'm not mistaken, didn't the pilgrims come here and take over this country illegally? The real americans were the native americans/mexicans.....It's funny how the US doesn't like the taste of it's own medicine..

[edit on 22-12-2005 by Spawwwn]


STOLE?????????????? Just exactly what was "stolen?

Real americans? The "native" americans came from somewhere..........how far back does one go?

Indians were pagan and Christian settlers have a right to spread the word.

I think the wall should have a 10 mile opening in the worst part of the Arizona desert to heard the illegals there. Now that could be the real "survival" TV show.....Those that live get limited green cards. Seven year work visa then GO HOME.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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OK, you have a lifeboat that supports say 50 people, if you take like 100-200 more than the maximum limit, the lifeboat will sink!
If too many illegal immigrants cross the border into the US, wages will fall, you will have to pay more taxes because these IMs probably want welfare (and they don't pay taxes) and thus the southern states of the US will become like Mexico.

The Mexicans should fix their own country instead, and not run from their problems.

Plus, if the problem gets worse, the government may have a reason to do something "drastic."



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by MichiKami
Yeah, amazing! This Texas PR firm said our 'views on immigration would improve' if we just knew how well democracy and the economy were doing in Mexico. (Reality check: I wish them the best, but that has nothing to do with my opposition to ILLEGAL immigration!)

And the Mexican government, as a form of retaliation, is going to help people sue the US employers? I'm all for that, and think it's a wonderful idea. It will stop American companies from hiring people who are here illegally.

Especially good was the (Mexican) guy they quoted saying "It's against what we see as part of our life, our culture, our territory." OUR TERRITORY?? I don't think so.

Hey, maybe the Mexican government should really retaliate ... by building their own wall. Tit for tat, right?

LEGAL immigration is wonderful for America (my wife is an immigrant). But uncontrolled, illegal immigration has to stop.


Here's an idea. Buy all the land on the border as a group (like a hunting club) and build a wall 20 feet high and 15 feet deep all on YOUR land. The BP has nothing to say with what you do on YOUR land. It can be used as an excuse to keep wildlife inside YOUR land. It is done all the time in TEXAS. Not sure of Arizona or NM. It would certainly narrow the points of entry. Maybe suggest it to the minutemen as an alternative to just reporting illegals.

I agree that this country was founded on immigration, legal immegration. Maybe this is a way of gut checking the runaway economy and bring back some semblance to reality in the housing market and elsewhere.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 07:50 AM
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thermopolis,


Indians were pagan and Christian settlers have a right to spread the word.

Sorry, I have to say something on this.
First, Native Americans never considered themselves to be pagan. In fact there are / were a few tribes that were monotheistic. Another fact was that there were / are Native Americans who were aware of Christ. This was one of the basic tenets of the Mormons.
Also Christan settlers / invaders, did not have the "right" to spread the word as you put it. If that were to have been the case then the Native Americans had the "right" to spread the word of their religious beliefs to the christians.


On the topic of this thread, Of course the Mexican goverment, who has a very secure southern border, would be against any measures that would stem the flood of illegal immigrants into the US as it would devastate their economy. Many towns and cities survive on the monies that illegals in the US send back home.
I agree with previous posters, that the only real solution to this mess is for the Mexican goverment to clean thier own house and get their economy set up.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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I am an American , my family came over here in the 1860's . Learned the American laws , learned the American language. This they new they had to do , as being apart of America ment something to be proud of. So when people just come in illegal and then take instead of giving , that is un-american. Example , I have MS , I went to the Social Sercurity Disabilty Insurance Office , I noticed illegal imigrants getting special treatment , while I had to wait in line for 3 hours , while they who did not speak , american get to the front of the line. I have been a good citizen of my country America, I have worked very hard for the American Dream as my fore fathers had. We love america, the land of the free, but hate to see it transformed by peoples who did not make this country the way it is. I am all for this protective wall and one at our northern border too. Not only will this keep out illegal drugs , but terrorist as well. And by being an illegal imigrant , and getting special treatment , while I worked my butt off for this country is just wrong in my eyes as a proud american . I hope that more and more people realize that being here is to be american. And to be an American it takes sacrafice , like learning the laungage and laws. But to take will out giving into the system is just wrong in my eyes and eyes of other Americans. We are not , and will never be apart of a global system of laws and we will not give up our rights to other nations. And for other peoples of other nations who do not live hear tell us what to do and how we should do it is wrong , as we are , we will be.

[edit on 12/22/2005 by zman]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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You have voted zman for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

This pretty well says it all.......



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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People can't continue to blame IMs without first dealing with the corrupt buisness and politicians who aallow this to happen. As long as they pretend to care, we can shot and scream and share ideas until the moon turns blue, and it won't make a single difference.

IMs=Great source of revenue/Cheap labor



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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The wall is in Texas. The illegal immigrants are coming up through Mexico, as well as from Mexico, through Arizona, California, as well as Texas. The illegal immigrants are having 1/2 million babies a year, which are considered legal U.S. citizens. The parents of these children don't want to become U.s. citizens, don't want to embrace American culture, and don't care if they don't pay taxes. The majority of the illegal immigrants want to send $$$$ back home, and have their children have free health care and free schooling. (this culture likes to have 15 year old girls have babies) The businesses that employ illegal immigrants want to have cheap labor. If you want to get upset over it, don't blame the illegal immigrants. Blame CAFTA, Blame the government, Blame the greed of businesses.
Look for more immigration because of natural disasters as well as financial ones.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 11:27 AM
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So many generalizations makes my eyes bleed.

Likes to have girls pregnant at 15? I hear baby jesus crying off in the distance.

While I do agree with the true source of the problem being corruption and greed, try not to generalize so much. I'm sur eyou wouldn't be happy if people began labeling Americans as gun toting mad men solely because of our obscenely high crime rate now would you? Oh wait...people already do that....



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:14 PM
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What didn't they steal? They stole Texas Nevada California..and i could go on...You gotta read unbiased history books, you'll learn how america stole lots of mexican territories. And the pilgrims did have a right to "spread the word" but how did they have a right to rape and murder the native americans, and then steal their land and shove them into some "reservations"? I hate when ppl say that other people from other countries shouldnt come to america when what we consider as america today was founded by a bunch of immagrant murderers.

And about learning the languages..yeah it pisses me off when i hear 20 different languages walking down the street..especially indians cause they always seem to be pist at me for some reason...but u know what good for them because they have that right to talk any crap in any languages that they want. I dont care if the cabbie doesnt know english. As long as he knows where to take me to, i pay him and tip him probaly more than i would tip an "american joe". It's tough going to another country. Immagine if u just picked up and moved to brazil or somewhere and had to learn an entirely different set of rules and way of life. I think you gotta give em a break if they dont know perfect english.

The problem i find with stuff like the "US wall" and general dislike of foreigners, is the fact that a lot of it is just fuled by racist white people who aren't really honest when it comes to the true history of america..and who's opinions are based on personal feelings, rather than rational thought.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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I've been saying that all along Spawwwn, minus the rascism, I think it's just people over-reacting to a problem they're all suddenly noticing - even though it's been going on for so long.

It's like when people say that we're now in danger after 9/11. The truth is, we were in danger ever since the US Embassy in Iran was seized, probably even before then. People need to start realizing these problems before they get out of hand, but as usual they have let things go on long enough that now there is no simple solution.

Blows me away everytime



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by Spawwwn

The problem i find with stuff like the "US wall" and general dislike of foreigners, is the fact that a lot of it is just fuled by racist white people who aren't really honest when it comes to the true history of america..and who's opinions are based on personal feelings, rather than rational thought.


If you read the whole thread you should have noticed there are two prevailing view points. One is close to the racist "white people" (I wouldn't stray so close to label them racist for supporting law and order) description and the other is from people who are either legal immigrants themselves or family members of legal immigrants. It is the second group of people who dislike illegal immigration not because of some racist ideals but simply because those who immigrate illegaly circumvent the long process of coming through the front door.

People who come here legally support the law and order/everyone equal mentality of the US and those who come here illegaly do nothing more than fleece the American system (by not paying taxes) and rarely integrate themselves with the rest of the culture.

Also you will find it not only white Americans who disagree with the idea of millions of people illegally entering their country and taking advantage of their tax driven social programs.



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