Mexico retaliates for US wall. What?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
It’s not fair to them that Mexicans (I’m generalizing) can just hop over a fence so easily and live in the US, while others wait to do things the right way.

Well as a 'Legal' immigrant myself I would disagree.
Don't talk for all of us thank you.

We can't pretend history never happened. We can't pretend this land was not ours to start with. We can't pretend we didn't steal land from the natives.

And you can't blaime people for wanting to better their lives. You are the lucky ones, the spoiled ones, the ones unwiling to share the worlds resources. The ones who stockpile food and resources while they watch their neighbour starve.

And this from the country that always claims to be the first to help
You all want to build a wall to shut away the problem so you don't have to look at it.

Why don't we build a roof also? Keep those out who choose to fly here and stay and work on tourist visas, and best of all KEEP YOU ALL IN!!

Havent read this whole thread as it is a long one but, I was born and raised near the world's buisiest border crossing, the San Diego/Tijuana border, so I might aswell throw my thoughts in.


First off Illlegal immigration is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with but both US citizens and illegals need each other desperatley. The price of countless goods are cheaper and more plentiful due to illeagal immigrants. If an illegal immigrant has taken your job please chime in, I'm sure it happens but not to anyone I know. Illegal immigration is the grease and gears of many US economies, they wouldn't function without em.

Second, These people need money and jobs for their families. Sure they place a burden on our government but not anywhere near to what they contribute to our economy. Put yourself in their shoes what would you do worry about borders and let your kids die? Dont think so.

So we have a nice little symbiotic relationship going.

Also Mexico has a very strong arguement that California and other parts of the west belong to them as it was taken under highly questionable circumstances.

I live in San Diego and there are illegal citizens EVERWHERE, yet is a thriving, beautiful city, not many places else in the US I live besides right here.

I'm not a spoiled one I'm someone who is trying to pay his way through college at a regular rate as oppossed to the way some illegals in the SW get reduced tuition at state universities.

Try walking into another first world country like switzerland and then start demanding benefits and money simply because you walked in from a better place. America isn't the only place that would tell you to get the hell out.

As you may not have noticed earlier Walk in Silence is a legal alien and part of my family was too. I understand the immigration process and as such i disagree with those who hop a fence and steal hard earned benefits from real citizens.

Originally posted by Bandar Paul


Second, These people need money and jobs for their families. Sure they place a burden on our government but not anywhere near to what they contribute to our economy. Put yourself in their shoes what would you do worry about borders and let your kids die? Dont think so.

Also Mexico has a very strong arguement that California and other parts of the west belong to them as it was taken under highly questionable circumstances.

I live in San Diego and there are illegal citizens EVERWHERE, yet is a thriving, beautiful city, not many places else in the US I live besides right here.

Yes we are so blessed we have illegal immigrants who use public services and funds and yet pay no Taxes the backbone of how we fund these public works and other things abused by the IMs.

And yes Mexico had a strong case to say it was their territory one hundred years ago but last time I check it was white anglo saxons who set up the gold rush and currently populate the West along with blacks and asians.

Sure San Diego is great now but if it continues to let IMs come and go freely and suck on social programs and refuse to assimilate with the rest of the country then it prob won't be so great fifty years down the road

You could also consider that these IMs who "steal" jobs are doing them for much cheaper - who do you think is going to be rebuilding New Orleans and other areas devastated by Katrina? If it costs less to rebuild these areas, doesn't that in turn help us? While the money does go into their pockets, you're saving quite a hefty amount by having them do it versus a fully unionized construction company charging ridiculous amounts of money.

Although this is still hardly a reason or justification for IMs, just trying to play Devils Advocate here and try and make people consider both sides of the arguement.

Originally posted by Bandar Paul
These people need money and jobs for their families. Sure they place a burden on our government but not anywhere near to what they contribute to our economy. Put yourself in their shoes what would you do worry about borders and let your kids die? Dont think so.

Yes, so let the mexican government fix these people's problems at home, not by exporting them to the U.S.

Also Mexico has a very strong arguement that California and other parts of the west belong to them as it was taken under highly questionable circumstances.

Yes, a war that started when mexican troops invaded Texas.

I live in San Diego and there are illegal citizens EVERWHERE, yet is a thriving, beautiful city, not many places else in the US I live besides right here.

Yes, a beautiful city that would be nothing more than "tijuana norte" if the mexicans were running the show. Not such a beautiful thought after all. BTW, interesting about the special caution signs you see on the freeways in San Diego. You know the ones that show a picture of a man, woman and child running across the highway. In the rest of the U.S., those signs have a picture of a deer or some other animal.

Yes, a war that started when mexican troops invaded Texas.


Yes, a beautiful city that would be nothing more than "tijuana norte" if the mexicans were running the show. Not such a beautiful thought after all. BTW, interesting about the special caution signs you see on the freeways in San Diego. You know the ones that show a picture of a man, woman and child running across the highway. In the rest of the U.S., those signs have a picture of a deer or some other animal.

Actually, the war started when Texan farmer began encroaching upon Mexican land. The farmers became more and more arrogant and began claiming the land as property of the Republic of Texas, and then the Mexicans were forced into action to reclaim their territory - although internal strife had forced them to turn around and deal with the revolution at hand, later being forced into selling their land or face the prospect of war with the US in their weakened state.

And your answers to the rest of what I said? Since you left that out, I'll take it as you agree with my assessments.

And if you think the statute of limitations is still open on territorial changes after the mexican war (160 years ago), let's also talk to the Aztecs and Maya. They may have some designs of their own on some mexican territory.

From the original thread article, I also thought the comment made by one mexican that "this effects all of us", shows the depth of the problem. In other words, there isn't one person in mexico that isn't involved in some way with illegal immigration to the U.S. Solvve you problems at home, mexico. I'm not paying for them.

If I lived anywhere near the border, I'd be on the border now - as a Minuteman.

[edit on 12/21/2005 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
And your answers to the rest of what I said? Since you left that out, I'll take it as you agree with my assessments.

And if you think the statute of limitations is still open on territorial changes after the mexican war (160 years ago), let's also talk to the Aztecs and Maya. They may have some designs of their own on some mexican territory.

I have no opinion on your assessments, I can't say they are wrong or right because they are solely that - your opinion.

However, your misconception of the Mexican American War was something I felt I could correct, no need to get sarcastic about things, it was a factual mistake, and I'm not blaming you.

It's this mad rush to arms which will end up getting us all in trouble - IMs and Legals - Mexicans and Americans. Too many people are far too eager to take up arms and play target practice with people trying to escape what they see as a broken and corrupt system - coming to the next best thing - a less broken and corrupt system.

Do you think if Nicaragua, just as an example, had a better economic and political structure than Mexico or the US that they'd be running here? No, it's because we're the next best thing. This is why I called for the betterment of all Latin America, not just Mexico, so that they have other places to run, or better yet, the need to run away not exist at all.

[edit on 21/12/05 by Conquistadork]

And the Aztecs and Maya? Shouldn't you give them back mexico city and the yucatan? After all, they were taken from them in wars that were "highly questionable circumstances".

Also, what about the amazing difference between a mexican run city - tijuana and U.S. run San Diego right across the border? Seems to me that if you gave San Diego back to the mexicans, they'd just turn it into another tijuana and then the mexicans would want to escape from there too.

See the point? It isn't the land, it's the management of the land. One government can take care of it's land and people and one is so corrupt that it can't.

[edit on 12/21/2005 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
And the Aztecs and Maya? Shouldn't you give them back mexico city and the yucatan? After all, they were taken from them in wars that were "highly questionable circumstances".

Why must all your questions be sarcastic? Did I ever once call for the return of Mexican lands to Mexico? No.

And the land of the Aztecs and Mayans were taken by the Spanish Conquistadors, considering that the Aztecs and Mayans are now direct ancestors of modern day Mexican I don't really understand your arguement of giving them back their own cities.

Give the Mexicans back Mexico?

I see your point, but you can't simply say "Let make a magical militia and stop them evil beaners!" Where are you going to get the people, materiale, and most importantly approval for anything like this? When people start dying on both sides, IMs and "Militia Men" things will only get worse - Would you be willing and able to deal with the rammifications?

[edit on 21/12/05 by Conquistadork]

I don't consider my questions "sarcastic". No, they are realistic.

But I do consider people that think the way you do a threat to this country because you never think what you're saying all the way through to it's conclusion and consequences.

And I wonder if you asked a Mayan if he considers himself a mexican?

Originally posted by centurion1211
I don't consider my questions "sarcastic". No, they are realistic.

But I do consider people that think the way you do a threat to this country because you never think what you're saying all the way through to it's conclusion and consequences.

And I wonder if you asked a Mayan if he considers himself a mexican?

And you do? I distinctly remember you volunteering yourself for a militia of minutemen that would "guard" the border. What happens when a few of your trigger happy militia boys starts playing target practice with the IMs?

What will you do when all of a sudden the IMs start shooting back? It seems to me you're the one who hasn't thought things through. If you've read the entire thread I've tried to offer several solutions and made various concessions to Westpoint and we had a very structured and well thought out arguement.

You on the other hand seem to just throw out random accusations and consider your own opinion the "know all end all"

P.S. I wonder if you knew that it was the Spanish who forced the name Mexico upon the Mayans and Aztecs. They accepted it only because of fear of retribution, and loss of colonial service and protection - now that they had been completely disarmed and their cultures destroyed by the Spaniards, they depended on them fully, and subjugated themselves to Spanish rule.

Do you know any of this before you start making assumptions?

[edit on 21/12/05 by Conquistadork]

Build the wall.

Put mines in front of it.

Put Machine guns on top of it.

The illegals will stop.

The south west is AMERICAN land. It is NOT Mexican land. They have NO RIGHT to it. There are MILLIONS of people looking to LEGALLY enter this country, just like my familly did. If they want to come here, GOOD. DO IT LEGALLY.

I swear, the more I hear of this, the more I support some people I met in the south who will shoot people they see crossing the boarder.

Originally posted by American Mad Man


The south west is AMERICAN land. It is NOT Mexican land. They have NO RIGHT to it. There are MILLIONS of people looking to LEGALLY enter this country, just like my familly did. If they want to come here, GOOD. DO IT LEGALLY.
\

I'm gonna have to say this sums up my last couple posts. I support AMA's opinion.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Build the wall.

Put mines in front of it.

Put Machine guns on top of it.

The illegals will stop.

The south west is AMERICAN land. It is NOT Mexican land. They have NO RIGHT to it. There are MILLIONS of people looking to LEGALLY enter this country, just like my familly did. If they want to come here, GOOD. DO IT LEGALLY.

I swear, the more I hear of this, the more I support some people I met in the south who will shoot people they see crossing the boarder.

The more I hear nonsense like this the more I think the Aztlan movement might be on to something. The southwest isn't worth turning into the Soviet Union over they can have it.

Originally posted by boogyman

The more I hear nonsense like this the more I think the Aztlan movement might be on to something. The southwest isn't worth turning into the Soviet Union over they can have it.

I don't think creating a barrier to Mexico is turning the Southwest into the USSR. Its preserving law and order in a land where immigrants are actively helped by their Mexican government and regularly return after getting deported. The people of the USSR aren't socialists but for the most part rugged individualists who want to preserve their local economies from scab IMs.

Brilliant Idea!!!

A wall! I Love it.

How do people think of stuff like this?

What you wake up one morning and say:

Hey, I’ve got an idea.

Let’s build a wall around the south to keep them there Mexicans out.

And while were at it:

Let’s build a wall around the north to keep them there Canadians out.

And before you know it you’ve penned the sheeple in and what you tried to prevent from coming in will ultimately keep you from getting out. Like your own personal prison cell.

LOVE IT!!!!

BRILLIANT!!!

HITLER COULDN’T OF, THOUGHT OF A BETTER PLAN.

Originally posted by mdefab01
Brilliant Idea!!!

A wall! I Love it.

How do people think of stuff like this?

What you wake up one morning and say:

Hey, I’ve got an idea.

Let’s build a wall around the south to keep them there Mexicans out.

And while were at it:

Let’s build a wall around the north to keep them there Canadians out.

And before you know it you’ve penned the sheeple in and what you tried to prevent from coming in will ultimately keep you from getting out. Like your own personal prison cell.

LOVE IT!!!!

BRILLIANT!!!

HITLER COULDN’T OF, THOUGHT OF A BETTER PLAN.

The thread isn't about reactionary redneck ideas like shooting Mexicans on sight. Its about securing the border to help our domesetic prosperity and to prevent illegal immigration. If you bothered to read the posts most of the people supporting the wall have had some sort of experience with legal immigration.

Please take your condescending and elitist remarks somewhere else. If you'd like to really discuss the topic intelligently and without using such an ignorant word as "sheeple" then by all means stay.

Originally posted by boogyman
The more I hear nonsense like this the more I think the Aztlan movement might be on to something. The southwest isn't worth turning into the Soviet Union over they can have it.

Typical public school education (fake history). The communist wall was to keep peolpe IN. The "southwest" as you call it extends all the way to Canada (where illegal live).

Not only do we need a wall but "brown shirts" (all puns intended) to find and throw out illegals. Yes, all 11 million...never to be allowed to return. Bag'em and electronically tag'em. The second they recross the border blast'em.

In fact we should invade Mexico and take over the OIL to pay the US back for all the lost health care costs and education costs of the millions of illegals.

Fox should be arrested and put on trial just like Saddam.