The Bible is not the word of god

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by DirtyBoots
hey religious guys: somethign I never understood from bible school...where did cain's wife come from if he didn't pick her up from inside the garden? just wondering:shk:

It's a good question. The Garden of Eden was not the only place in existence at the time as I understand it. The Garden was the project area. Here's how I came to that conclusion:

And if Adam and Eve were the first two people on earth, where did these other people come from?

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[edit on 2-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I'm still not quite sure what is meant by the term "God." Who or what it is.

A quick flip through the Bible does offer some instances where a character, someone or something called "God" or "The Lord," is quoted. But it's used in so different instances, and indicates many different kinds of persons or entities. Sometimes God is friendly, sometimes destructive, sometimes completely clueless. Anyway, I'm not quite sure you could call the whole book "The Word of God." Maybe portions of it where he or it is quoted could be called the words of God, but not the whole book.

But I doubt that God, whatever that might be, actually sat down and wrote it. And as far as it being "inspired" by God, well, you know that's really not the same thing. People get things wrong all the time.

Originally posted by Prot0n
It's still just opinion. The Christian god has not been proven to exist anymore then the Egyptian god Horus or Osiris.

Not to you yet, no. But, it's a step you'd have to take. Nobody can take it for you. I'll help for those wishing it but will not impose help...that's an oxymoron. In Peter's writing, he emphasizes it is not opinion, that he himself witnessed it. Again, he's not the only one who gives testimony/witness/testament. I have a witness and testimony, but if you cannot accept the Bible as a written testament, then I cannot possibly expect you to accept my witnessing either.

Originally posted by Prot0n
You've not displayed any fact's, just personal opinion's and pre-assumption's.

Hehe, again, things not proven by you. And that's fine. I'm not going to try to force proof. Again, an oxymoron.

Originally posted by Prot0n
This pre-assume's your concept of god is the one true god, but again this can be highly debated. Crack open a history book. Take the time to learn about what civilizations came first, what their belief's were. Intellectual laziness is not a way of gaining wisdom.

One more assumption that I haven't "cracked open a history book", am intellectually lazy, and/or ignore wisdom and I shall leave you to wallow in your own musings. I'd hate to leave you in that state but see no other alternative.

Originally posted by Prot0n
I'm not sure I'm following you here. Are you admitting to not bothering looking up the hebrew words for young woman and virgin? Would you like me to do this for you so we don't have to trouble ourselve's with learning?

You're on your own friend. God be with you.

Originally posted by Enkidu
I'm still not quite sure what is meant by the term "God." Who or what it is.

Even those who know God cannot possibly encompass all that God is. The Book gives some great description and detail which helps. Don't want to go to the Book? Don't have to, you can dial him direct. Be not surprised though if He sends you to the Book to do homework. This is what happened to me.

Originally posted by Prot0n
A quick flip through the Bible does offer some instances where a character, someone or something called "God" or "The Lord," is quoted. But it's used in so different instances, and indicates many different kinds of persons or entities. Sometimes God is friendly, sometimes destructive,

But not unjustly destructive. There are many characteristics of God...just as there are many words to describe you. Yes, "God is love" but it also says "Yet He will not allow the guilty to go unpunished."

Originally posted by Prot0n
sometimes completely clueless.

I don't follow.

Originally posted by Prot0n
Anyway, I'm not quite sure you could call the whole book "The Word of God." Maybe portions of it where he or it is quoted could be called the words of God, but not the whole book.

But I doubt that God, whatever that might be, actually sat down and wrote it.

I never saw that claim in the Bible, nor by anyone who has read it.

Originally posted by Prot0n
And as far as it being "inspired" by God, well, you know that's really not the same thing. People get things wrong all the time.

Check with Him for any and all parts you're uncertain of. One way or another, you'll get your answer.

Originally posted by Prot0n
And if Adam and Eve were the first two people on earth, where did these other people come from?

Cain was the first child of Adam and Eve recorded in Scripture. His brothers, Abel and Seth were part of the first generation of children ever born on this earth.

Even though only these three males are mentioned by name, Adam and Eve had other children. In Genesis 5:4 a statement sums up the life of Adam and Eve -- "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he (Adam) begat sons and daughters:" This does not say when they were born. Many could have been born in the 130 years (Genesis 5:3) before Seth was born.

During their lives, Adam and Eve had a number of male and female children. The Bible does not tell us how many children were born to Adam and Eve. However, considering their long life spans ("And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died." -- Genesis 5:5), it would seem reasonable to suggest there were many! Remember, They were commanded to "...Be fruitful, and multiply" (Genesis 1:28).

I hope that helps.

This is from my post found here: www.belowtopsecret.com...

As I see it the biggest problem for all the abrahamic belief systems is its recording.
They all depend on a third party or parties writing down oral traditions. Stories repeated and the meaning more and more lost. Our own experiences would prove the corruption of oral information by “Chinese whispers” after just a few persons imparting the information.

Add to that the difficulties associated with translation of any of the texts to any of a multitude of languages and the fact that any scribe will always write with their own bias.
It has to be said that the few texts that have survived were not written at the time of the events.
Literacy was not a common thing in ancient times the powers knew the power it held. Costly education usually funded by the wealthy could be guaranteed to say what the paymaster wanted to say. There would have been no freedom of speech; you would be commissioned to write what you were told.

So basically you have an oral tradition, which could be a fairy tale, passed on by Chinese whispers for many years. This is then written down after variable periods of time in many languages, with translations into modern languages, with the pitfalls that has.

These abrahamic belief systems seem to have selected the appropriate texts and disregarded others that did not support the respective paymasters point of view.

For those that believe in god I cannot understand your defence of it. You seem to believe it is the creator of all. Following from that shouldn’t you embrace all of his creation?? If he/she/it is the creator then surely evil and Satan are your gods creation too? You may state free will is there to test us. But really what is the point of it; if ultimately your jealous god will smite you if you don’t do as your told??

Personally I feel that fans of god, who try to convert the likes of myself, have something to hide. If this entity were all-powerful why would it need humble humans fighting on its behalf?? That’s like the wimpy kids in the playground standing up for the bully.

I feel that religion is root to a lot of the evil in the world. It has always has been so. Whether it’s murdering first-born children or the robbing, raping and genocide of the people of the Indus in the name of conversion or enlightenment.

If there is a god, and I do say if, I think his agents and followers have more to fear than the unbelievers, with what you have done in its, your gods name. If there is a god, he/she/it may be a thoroughly good chap. Perhaps god shouldn’t be blamed for the ills of man in its name. But then god wouldn’t be god would it??

Originally posted by Il Papa
I feel that religion is root to a lot of the evil in the world.

Oh yes, a religion that says to stay away from all evil is the root of all evil.

Originally posted by Il Papa
Perhaps god shouldn’t be blamed for the ills of man in its name. But then god wouldn’t be god would it??

God gave us the unique gift of making choices. If don't believe me, go to a restaurant and order something you want. See if God comes down and changes it.

Originally posted by GameSetMatch
Even though only these three males are mentioned by name, Adam and Eve had other children. In Genesis 5:4 a statement sums up the life of Adam and Eve -- "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he (Adam) begat sons and daughters:"

So, Cain married his sister, seeing as how they've both got the same parent. I thought god was against incest?

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[edit on 30-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
my first argument to support this statement is the fact that none of the books of the bible even claim to be the word of god. they are title 'The gospel according to ????'.

Who is to say that the authors of these books are not corrupt people perpetuating a lie?

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Conspiracy Theorist]

What if your wrong? Is it a chance you want to take?
God loves you anyway. Try talking to Him sometime. It might surprise you what happens. Besides, it's full of great stories, and insight into history (His Story). May he fill your house with peace and your heart with love.

Originally posted by Prot0n


And if Adam and Eve were the first two people on earth, where did these other people come from?

If you read the passage closely in Genesis 4:3 it states: "In the process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground and offering unto the Lord."

Do not assume that God's account will mirrror our understanding of movies and pulp fiction novels in dealing with history. Most scholars agree that this passage makes clear a definite passage many years in which Eve had born other children, male and female as God commanded....Cain got his wife from his mother as was allowed in those days so the Earth may have been populated. If this "incest" was not evident, then skeptics and scoffers would be correct in saying the Genesis account is false.

Please read this clear explanation I found.....www.carm.org...

[edit on 30-3-2006 by Tyriffic]

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[edit on 30-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Sorry, I forgot. Thanx.

[edit on 30-3-2006 by Tyriffic]

This is really a most amusing thread.
Everybody quoting phrases from scriptures written after the event(s).

It is amusing that this tosh, the so called scriptures, is used in courts of law around the world for people to swear on, to testify their statement is truth. This series of unsubstantiated fables and fairy stories is but heresay.
Heresay is not admisable in most global courts but you testify your lies are the truth by swearing on books that are heresay?? This so called god moves in confusing ways, does he not??

Using any novel as the sole evidence of the existence of a character within it, is nonsense. Just because Pinochio is in a book doesnt mean he exists does it?

Originally posted by GameSetMatch

Originally posted by Prot0n
And if Adam and Eve were the first two people on earth, where did these other people come from?

Cain was the first child of Adam and Eve recorded in Scripture. His brothers, Abel and Seth were part of the first generation of children ever born on this earth.

So, human biology was way different back then, huh? People lived HUNDREDS OF YEARS without antibiotics, medicine, and the better nutrition available to some in the world today. Not only that, but people were able to generate genetic variation despite interbreeding with immediate family members. I guess genetics was different then, too?

I like how the Christians say "this is what I think it means," but this book is supposed to be the word of God. I would think it could stand alone, if that were the case.

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[edit on 2-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Il Papa
It is amusing that this tosh,

Sorry you're not able to make sense of it. Please let me know if I can help.

Originally posted by Il Papa
the so called scriptures,

They are scriptures whether you consider them facts or not:

www.m-w.com...

Originally posted by Il Papa
is used in courts of law around the world for people to swear on, to testify their statement is truth. This series of unsubstantiated fables and fairy stories is but heresay.

Again, sorry you're not able to substantiate them.

Originally posted by Il Papa
Heresay is not admisable in most global courts but you testify your lies are the truth by swearing on books that are heresay??

The courts don't believe the Bible is heresay else, as you say, they wouldn't use it would they?

Originally posted by Il Papa
This so called god moves in confusing ways, does he not??

To us He is confusing, sure. To Him, makes perfect sense. Since we're not perfect, hard for us to understand perfect sense. Makes sense?

Originally posted by Il Papa
Using any novel as the sole evidence of the existence of a character within it, is nonsense. Just because Pinochio is in a book doesnt mean he exists does it?

I see. I take it you have neither researched nor applied the Bible then?

[edit on 2-4-2006 by saint4God]

saint4god

Just because e.g. western establishment has evolved from the evil that was the Holy Roman Emperor (founded on slavery is that an evil??) and logically uses the fairy story that begat christianity as its foundation of law and belief doesnt make it right.

The whole abrahamic fable is nonsense and of course you cant substantiate the counter view because the abrahamic view cant be substantiated in the first place.

I am sure this god thing, IF it did exist, would be big enough to look after itself. It wouldnt need people like you ingratiating themselves and trying to convert t'others...like the church did to those native peoples in South America...murdered in your gods name.
If it, this god entity existed and allowed this sort of thing (and it aint the only time its allowed this is it?) then as a compassionate human I would want no part of it.

You stick with your abrahamic fairy tale and I will stick with my humanity.

As for swearing on a fairy tale in court, I would rather take oath on a copy of Pinochio, than heresay, anytime. But the holy roman empire wont allow it.
Stone tablets, burning bushes, necromantic worship sounds more like astory from JKRowling to me.

Originally posted by Il Papa
saint4god

Just because e.g. western establishment has evolved

Hehe, we do like to use that word don't we?

Originally posted by Il Papa
from the evil that was the Holy Roman Emperor (founded on slavery is that an evil??) and logically uses the fairy story that begat christianity as its foundation of law and belief doesnt make it right.

This is the first time I've heard Christianity to be founded by the Holy Roman Emperor(?). Do you have any support for this claim?

Originally posted by Il Papa
The whole abrahamic fable is nonsense and of course you cant substantiate the counter view because the abrahamic view cant be substantiated in the first place.

I have documentation (as well as a personal relationship but that cannot be submitted as proof here). Do you?

Originally posted by Il Papa
I am sure this god thing, IF it did exist, would be big enough to look after itself.

Indeed He can and does. Did you think we look after him?

Originally posted by Il Papa
It wouldnt need people like you

Tell me more about me. I'm most interested in learning more about myself.

Originally posted by Il Papa
ingratiating themselves and trying to convert t'others...

I could not convert anybody, nor would I want to. I have no need to ingratiate myself.

Originally posted by Il Papa
like the church did to those native peoples in South America...murdered in your gods name.

A clear indication of hypocrisy, something Christ warns us about.

Exodus 20:13
"You shall not murder"

It should be apparent that those who murder are violating God's command.

Originally posted by Il Papa
If it, this god entity existed and allowed this sort of thing (and it aint the only time its allowed this is it?) then as a compassionate human I would want no part of it.

I see, so you want to dictate what God allows. What does that make you?

Originally posted by Il Papa
You stick with your abrahamic fairy tale and I will stick with my humanity.

I don't go by fairy tales, sorry. And, I hope for the best with humanity saving you. They've not gotten eternal life for anyone yet so far. Odds are not looking good.

Originally posted by Il Papa
As for swearing on a fairy tale in court, I would rather take oath on a copy of Pinochio, than heresay, anytime.

I'd not take an oath under either. Fortunately for me, the Bible isn't heresay.

Originally posted by Il Papa
But the holy roman empire wont allow it.

Newsflash, there is no Holy Roman Empire at present so feel free to act without fear of their intervention.

"The Holy Roman Empire (official name: sacrum romanum imperium, 1254; more details below) designates a political entity that covered a large portion of Europe, centered on Germany, from 962 to 1806. "
www.heraldica.org...

Originally posted by Il Papa
Stone tablets, burning bushes, necromantic worship sounds more like astory from JKRowling to me.

There was no encouragement for necromantic worship, rather warning against it.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by saint4God]

religion is the ultimate mindkiller but faith will set you free.. FAITH IN ALIENS

Originally posted by nephyx
religion is the ultimate mindkiller but faith will set you free.. FAITH IN ALIENS

Some days I wonder why I study, think, grow, learn, experience and work. Then, I read statements like these and understand it's to prevent saying something like what's quoted here.

[edit on 5-4-2006 by saint4God]

In the beginning there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…In Him was Life…And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

This thread still going????? Ah well, lets see

God exists for the people who want god to exist and god doesnt exist for those who dont believe - it is as simple as that.
No amount of scripture quoting or belief in alien intelligences will change this! Change comes from within yourself, from deciding what YOU believe to be true at that time, also from personal experiences and new information.
So whether or not god does exist makes no difference to the views and beliefs of the whole world. People see what they want and change when they want. But that is today - tomorrow maybe a different story.


G

Originally posted by shihulud
This thread still going????? Ah well, lets see

God exists for the people who want god to exist and god doesnt exist for those who dont believe - it is as simple as that.
No amount of scripture quoting or belief in alien intelligences will change this! Change comes from within yourself, from deciding what YOU believe to be true at that time, also from personal experiences and new information.
So whether or not god does exist makes no difference to the views and beliefs of the whole world. People see what they want and change when they want. But that is today - tomorrow maybe a different story.


G