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Islamic Rioting in France

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posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 09:42 AM
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True Lies, would you think it was wrong for there to be no black senators or congressmen in the USA? Would it be acceptable for a portion of the population to have no elected representatives?

There is a large portion of the French population with no direct representation. That isnt good. It can leave people angry because they dont feel that they can talk to whoever their MP is through fear of discrimination. A few Muslim MP's may well have prevented this by giving people someone to talk too. If thats rascist then so be it... Its also a potential solution for the future.




I am a white person, i've lived in canada my whole life until 03, when i've gone to quebec (french province) and spoken english i've gotten the cold shoulder or have been disrespectfully treated. If you speak their language it's a different ball game. If white people were to migrate to the islamic regions, would they embrace us or not? would they expect the same things we expect when it comes to learning the culture and speaking the language


These people are 2nd and 3rd generation, they go to French schools and speak French. Most of them are seeking work. Your language point makes no sense. Sorry.




slap in the face to white people just because they are white. you have a problem w/ white people and it's reflecting quite clearly in your most of your points.


Care to back that up with anything ive said? The French authorities have made mistakes. If thats anti white to you then um... i cant help you




Muslims who have migrated to Toronto some not all make the argument that they should enforce 'sharia law' which is a muslim law into the ontario law books, the argument from other muslims is that they moved there to get away from that... I agree, thats 'part' of the point for immigrating...


What do Ontario extremists have to do with French riots? Or are you just implying that all Muslims are extremists? I havnt seen any of the protestors or the rioters call for Sharia law. This is nothing to do with the subject.




Those that want change usually protest in the peaceful way and write to their district represenatatives, when you riot your not advocating for change, when your burning innocent old ladies, your not advocates for change, exhibiting this kind of behavior will not get you anywhere, and it will not get you anything. You will be more of an outcast and people will not want you there, you will feel more unwelcomed, and then you really won't have anything.


No arguements here. Peaceful protest is the only way. And the rioters are idiots who should be stamped out. Im just saying that there is more to these riots than the 'there muslims there all mad/evil/extremists bent on the extermination of western civilisation' attitude that seems to populate this thread and ATS as a whole.

Noone should have to live with rasicm. But that is what these people have to do. When the riots are crushed there should be a real effort made to change the attitudes in everyday French people regarding Muslims. Of course the actions of the rioters have made this very unlikely. But if there had only been peaceful protest would anyone have listened?

This looks to be a catch 22 situation for French Muslims. If they say anything they will be ignored and the situation will get worse. But if they shout and riot to attract attention the siution will get worse.




I guess that old lady really deserved what she got huh.. she must of done something terribly wrong to invoke fire upon her body.


I surrender the smart arse finish to you.

Stop looking at things as if they are in black and white.




posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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Those interested in a more balanced investigation into the mind of the British suicide bombers of 7/7 (as well as suicide bombers across the world) might care to look at the recent BBC 'Horizon' program ' The 7/7 bombers'.

It deals with a lot of the ideas of fundamentalism some seem determined to see as the root of all of these troubles across the world.

It might interest those determined to pursue the 'radical Muslim' line that those men are known to have had several rows and fallen out with the religious leaders at the Mosque where they used to meet (there was no fundamentalist Imman there).

You can download it via bit torrent from here -
tracker2.conspiracycentral.net:6969...

- There are international experts from Israel to the US discussing group behaviour and thenew 'bunch of guys' theory.

It's very interesting stuff and, IMO, of far more value that the poorly disguised racism usually bandied about on the subject.



[edit on 7-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by XyZeR

i agree... i bet you won't see these stories in the media:

Iman condems riots



i don't believe politicians either, perhaps he's genuinely sorry, but that still doesn't do diddly squat, does it? this has to stop, the state is quick to give you a speeding ticket or parking fine and put you in jail if you smoke some weed, but smokin' a few cars and homes is a freebie now?!

what an utter joke. Talk Is Cheap, turn over those pillagers if they receive shelter that's called support. got it?

www.nytimes.com...

shots fired at the police, 2 wounded - doing nothing will escalate the situation, appeasement does not work.


i haven't found any info in English, but today a man died after 3 days in coma, from brain damage, infliced by rioters he tried to keep from lighting a trash container. a sensible cause, ain't it, of course the perpetrators are all but safe among their crowd.

defend that all you like, this is above and beyond amusing. one thing's certain though, it's going to become very clear now whom the politically correct consider worthy of living in europe and whom they view as obstacles in their path to 'utopia'.



Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
...

It deals with a lot of the ideas of fundamentalism some seem determined to see as the root of all of these troubles across the world.
...
It's very interesting stuff and, IMO, of far more value that the poorly disguised racism usually bandied about on the subject.
..



is it not allowed to take a long and careful look at the lowest common denominator? it's painfully obvious to anyone who remotely considers the possibility that there are at least a few problems in this world which are not caused by evil racists
what is it? muslim tradition. i don't know wether their clerics tell them to f*ck the unbelievers or if it's outrage over injustice (legitimate or not).

it's irrelevant.

the simple matter of fact is that if you've got an enclave of Mohammedans near you chances are you'll be attacked sooner or later, cute, eh? motivation is not necessarily a mystery, perhaps, after all, why don't you guys try to look past the rim of your cup and give the theory of reverse racism a shot, mmh?

namely that they hate us

how is that?

[edit on 7-11-2005 by Long Lance]



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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how rascist some members are...shame.
They're even giving each other "Way Above" votes....and a female doing it no less. What if that 3rd strike hits & enough of the Yankee Klan gets him a TWAT award?

The French have a problem, like any homogenous culture, of new coming into the mix.....look at the Japanese. But remember too, these are folks who are coming from ex-French colonies, where they spoke the language, knew the culture, and had their native wealth raped from them.....so maybe generational "assimilation" is made even harder? Just the canned hysteria from American rascist & islamaphobes needs to be getting a grip (*said with a Pakistani accent*).....one of them even noted that "Fox news has great coverage of the goings on" to paraphrase.......FOx News? Go figure.....Islam + Violence + Domestic Deflection + Agenda....yup, they'd be all over that.

Question:
Where did the LA Maxi family tree come from? I ask because there has been so much pontification from the first person narrative, it would give some background.



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Long Lance
the simple matter of fact is that if you've got an enclave of Mohammedans near you chances are you'll be attacked sooner or later, cute, eh?


- This is just so far removed from the truth it is laughable.

The simple fact is that if I or my family suffer early and violent death, injury or assault it will almost certainly not be caused by any "Mohammedans" nearby (with and amongst whom I lived and worked in London for many years, happily) but by (probably drunken) twisted idiots from within my own community (or, so the stats say, an accident caused by a family member or a family member gone nuts) .

Same for almost everyone of us.

Why are you presenting this ridiculous far-fetched fantasy as some kind of fact?


motivation is not necessarily a mystery, perhaps, after all, why don't you guys try to look past the rim of your cup and give the theory of reverse racism a shot, mmh?

namely that they hate us

how is that?


- Naaaaa, the people I lived and worked with, like me, simply had a healthy dislike of those people who obviously hate and I don't blame them for that one bit.

The people I knew, whether they were Sikh, Hindu or Muslim didn't hate anyone, just the idiots intent on trying to stir trouble with idiotic tales of how 'they'd' kill us all in our beds given half the chance.

Jayzuss wept, but this 'they all secretly really hate us and want to get us' nonsense is like some absurdly melodramatic 19th century trashy novel.

Once in a while there was indeed occasional trouble as the 2nd and 3rd generation asian kids (often Hindus not Muslims - just as happened with the Jewish east end of London kids and young men a decade or two before them) stopped just taking the 'racist treatment' certain so-called indigenous whites thought entitled to dish out to them.

Again, it might not be right but who could blame them?


[edit on 7-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Uncle Joe
True Lies, would you think it was wrong for there to be no black senators or congressmen in the USA?


There are no Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Indian, or Native American congressman. There is only one Latino, and he is the first.

ARE ANY OF THESE GROUPS RIOTING?!?!?!


Would it be acceptable for a portion of the population to have no elected representatives?


As I pointed out, there are MANY that are not represented, and they are doing FINE without rioting like a bunch of barbarians.


There is a large portion of the French population with no direct representation. That isnt good. It can leave people angry because they dont feel that they can talk to whoever their MP is through fear of discrimination.


Give me a break. Like I have shown, there are SEVERAL groups in the US that are not represented AT ALL and NEVER HAVE BEEN represented, and yet they don't seem to have such problems.


A few Muslim MP's may well have prevented this by giving people someone to talk too. If thats rascist then so be it... Its also a potential solution for the future.


So racism is OK, as long as it's done by black Muslims?



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by Long Lance
the simple matter of fact is that if you've got an enclave of Mohammedans near you chances are you'll be attacked sooner or later, cute, eh?


- This is just so far removed from the truth it is laughable.




i'm playing devils advocate here, i admit, but you should note that i wrote 'enclave of..' now, that reduces the number of suspects a bit doesn't it? ghettosiation is what allowed the aggressive potential to reach a critical mass, breaking up these enclaves would probably cure the situation, if done peacefully of course. now the question remains, was it really only 'our' fault these minorities built their own mini-societies or was it partially a result of their way of life?



Why are you presenting this ridiculous far-fetched fantasy as some kind of fact?


i never said they'd inevitably kill you, but IF they're living ghetto-style and the time is ripe, there's a risk, apparently, or do you think Denmark and France are just making things up ? (i don't count Berlin, Brussels, because i don't know who did it there, might as well be skinheads riding the wave to advance a scare agenda) i presume the people you worked with were not living in the 'hood', were they?





Jayzuss wept, but this 'they all secretly really hate us and want to get us' nonsense is like some absurdly melodramatic 19th century trashy novel.


all of them? 5-10% will do, won't they? i understand your sentiments, and generalisation IS unjust, but so is forgetting about the victims, isn't it? if a culture has a higher intrinsic level of violence, it needs to be vented differently, wihout damage to life and property obviously. who can blame me for putting 2 and 2 together and entertaining the idea that certain minorities are prone to organised yet random violence ?



Once in a while there was indeed occasional trouble as the 2nd and 3rd generation asian kids (often Hindus not Muslims - just as happened with the Jewish east end of London kids and young men a decade or two before them) stopped just taking the 'racist treatment' certain so-called indigenous whites thought entitled to dish out to them.

Again, it might not be right but who could blame them?



no one

'once in a while' is nothing like hordes of rioters deliberately destroying stuff for fun, is it? even the LA riots were not as organised and well coordinated, it seems. anger and careful planning don't mx that well, do they?

[edit on 8-11-2005 by Long Lance]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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They dont feel integrated ?
why ?
simply because they dont want.......they refuse integration.
Come here and say its all france govt fault is insane, you dont have any idea about what are you talking about.
North African ppl come ilegally to France by thousands a year.
These minority causing all these trouble are some damn bastards that deserve to be send back to their countries.
If they dont like France, just quit.
I live in CH now and im well aware of France problems (i lived there some months) and here as there i dont see integration problems with Portugueses, Italians, Spanishes or even South Americans they face the same problems as the north africans and still they manage to evolve and have good lives.

I know a bunch of algerians, tunisians here.....and most of them prefer to not work and receive the govt money because its easier. (dont come tell me it is incorrect because i KNOW lots of them)....they come to europe, manage to have a kid with some stupid european female and get the papers...then they work 3 months a year and spend the rest of the time with the govt money. (the same apply to France)

Some time ago something similar happened in FR.
The cops killed a young idiot when he tried to force a road block...then there was small riots.
I mean, what the hell....if you try to force a police block you know what will happen.
But then again was nothing related with race, still those iditios burn some things ebcause "France hates them*

Bull#, all this subject piss me off.

Im South American....i had hard time to manage to have a stable life here, but i did....i work in the construction, my wife cleaned the # others did.
Still sometimes i feel the racism and etc......but still i DO NOT GO OUT DESTROING PUBLIC OR PRIVATE PROPERTY.
The day i feel i cant stand this ill leave.
(just to let you know, all my family is european...im the only one with SA passport, i could have married here to get the damn papers...instead i worked hard and managed to become a legal citizen by myself)

I sincerely hope french police will threat these dorks as they deserve.
And i hope for the french sakes that next election LePen win the election.


For you US guys saying, Oh poor unfortunate north africans.
I would like to see if the mexicans started the same situation there, what would be your reaction.

...........
edit here:
btw, the religion has nothing to do with what is happening in france.
its a social problem....

[edit on 8/11/05 by Krpano]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 02:19 PM
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Krpano, American MadMan and Longlance.

You guys are 100% on the money.

It makes me sick to see the Socialists blaming French culture and society for the rioting Muslim Thugs on the streets. Krpano nailed it on the head, most of these people are LAZY and they DEMAND the government give them money to do nothing for 9 months out of 12.

Its time to get some heavily armed soldiers out there with machine guns. If some teenage punks who attack police officers get blown away....TOUGH LUCK!! Their parents shoulda kept them inside.

Im tired of the weaklings saying: Those poor immigrants are victims of a "raciest" French society. From what I see, Islam is the most intolerant and raciest society on earth.

These rioting Punks need a lesson in firepower.

Maximu§



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by Krpano
..
they come to europe, manage to have a kid with some stupid european female and get the papers...




heh, i coined a term for this kind of woman, although it could, in theory at least be used on a man if he did the same thing for an immigrant woman..

Ethno-Groupie

dunno if you like it,just thought i'd share...



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 02:41 PM
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You guys are 100% on the money.


No, not really. Thier mentality just equates to your own bigotry.



It makes me sick to see the Socialists blaming French culture and society for the rioting Muslim Thugs on the streets. Krpano nailed it on the head, most of these people are LAZY and they DEMAND the government give them money to do nothing for 9 months out of 12.


Actualy, I would by many be considered an Anarco-Capitalist, and you see me blaming certain praticularities not in French culture, but economic choices that has caused this issue; though, more importantly, failure to adress the problem initialy without strife, and little whim.

You should also note that these people are not lazy, and you obviously have a poor understanding of economics and very little common sense to understand that persons making minimal wages are not afforded the luxary of reinvesting back into thier relative economies to further propogate economic success; when you have bills to pay that accumulate 80 percent of your salary, you would not neccesarily abide to a habituated positive mentality; this is simple praxeology touted by a great deal many economists.

There are a great deal of many other issues at hand which usualy enspouse poor regions; an education system which may not be on par with those of a upper-class bracket; families not proccuring enough time to spend with their children which leads these children to other avenues of familial sociability.



Its time to get some heavily armed soldiers out there with machine guns. If some teenage punks who attack police officers get blown away....TOUGH LUCK!! Their parents shoulda kept them inside.


No, not really. If anything, this just further fosters in those members who believe in your inability to think coherently, and more so, rationaly.

A police officer does not blow away rioters, he ensures that it is contained and dissuaded, not further perpetuated which your choice would lead to.

Do, please, think a bit harder before you post.




Im tired of the weaklings saying: Those poor immigrants are victims of a "raciest" French society. From what I see, Islam is the most intolerant and raciest society on earth.


Your myopia allows you to see very little as has been dicated in this thread. This weakling would throw you into this riot and see how far you got in containing it with a machine gun; go, let's see how strong you are in the face of hundreds of angery protesters who you hope to quell.

Luxifero



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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they come to europe, manage to have a kid with some stupid european female and get the papers.


Bravo !! What a smart man !!!

And.. I kid not !

Quite frankly, he made a very good choice, and it obviously allowed him board into a European country where he will live much more fecundly than in his third-world country; speaking of which, chap, don't your own country folk flee into American constantly? Sounds a bit hypocrtical of you, does it not?

Luxifero



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Luxifero
No, not really. Thier mentality just equates to your own bigotry.
Luxifero



Your right, I am a Bigot. I am prejudiced against SCUM who riot and hurt innocent people. I am prejudiced against PUNKS that burn private property.

If thats Bigotry, than count me in.

Your the one who needs to think before you post, not me.

Gabriel



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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LA_Maximus you've been right on the money since this thread started. I love it how you speak the truth without sugar-coating anything. Simply cold hard facts.

Luxifero....on the other hand...you obviously have no idea as to what you're talking.

I can say this first hand because both my parents moved to the United States as poor immigrants but we worked hard and eventually became successful...and “yes” we had to deal with the racism just like everyone else.

These rioters refuse to integrate themselves into French society but expect to be treated the same and be given the same benefits. That's plain ridiculous and amounts to being a damn parasite. I'll fuc&ig say it about my own people that act and think the same way because it pisses me off when people don’t take responsibility for their own actions. Besides, a lot of French citizens have given a lot, even their lives, for their country to be successful and you expect them to simply give ‘hand-outs’ to people who just expects them.

Just because many of the rioters work hard, which you said in your last update, doesn't mean that guarantees them success. They have to think 'smart' and work towards a certain goal while overcoming the harsh obstacles most other French citizens don't have to deal with. It's a hard fact to swallow but that doesn't mean the opportunities are gone...just harder to reach.

Yet there are still people like you who are either blind are refuse to accept the fact that these people are poor because they unknowingly choose to be poor by expecting handouts without doing squat for them or by simply not making the right decisions.

Shiet, these people are still better off than their home countries because at least they have opportunities. They are either just too damn lazy/dumb/blinded by hate/or chicken shiet to do anything.

Don’t mistake racism with simple facts.

Programs are out there to help these people. They just need to work harder to succeed. It’s always going to be tough the first few years but things always get better if you work hard/smart and not have a chip on your should all the time.



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by Luxifero
This weakling would throw you into this riot and see how far you got in containing it with a machine gun; go, let's see how strong you are in the face of hundreds of angery protesters who you hope to quell.
Luxifero


Careful there Bucko....your talking to an ex-soldier here. In the 4 years Ive spent in the US Army, Ive fired plenty of fully automatic weapons some of which include the 50 cal, M60, M16, grease-gun, Uzi, Ak-47 and the Soviet SVD sniper rifle (the Soviet sniper rifle was not automatic)

So, if your tough enough to toss me in front of a "angry" crowd of Islamic rioters with a machine-gun, you had better stock up on plenty of body bags.

Maximu§

PS: Thanks j619pinoy...nice to see some good troops in here.




[edit on 043030p://222 by LA_Maximus]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Luxifero
...
There are a great deal of many other issues at hand which usualy enspouse poor regions; an education system which may not be on par with those of a upper-class bracket; families not proccuring enough time to spend with their children which leads these children to other avenues of familial sociability.
...



i will not pretend the world is perfect and that everyone has an opportunity in life, because that's not the case. normally such a disclaimer is unnecessary, but it seems it will come in handy here...

so, for the n-th time, there are tons of minorities, most of them do not resort to violence, i wonder why that is. i'd really love to hear a politically correct explanation, because there's no doubt that North African Muslims are not the only disadvantaged group in existance.

if you don't get my drift, let's just say that injustice is being commited not reduced by these actions. of course, if you call us right wing extremists once more, perhaps this minor problem in your line of argument will magically vanish allowing you to return to your dream world where anyone not bending down for political correctness is a narrow-minded racist, although i doubt it. is personal smear really all you're capable of?

PS: on top of all that they're ungrateful, guess who built their homes and pays for their schools, gave them sanitation, medical services and many other things they could only dream of if they lived in their country of origin? social programs mostly, ie. the taxpayers.

finally, is there ANYTHING you appeasers can credibly suggest that would reliably put an end to rioting? thought so, we're all guilty but there's nothing we can do to change that, right?? fine ideology of yours.

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Long Lance]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Long Lance
so, for the n-th time, there are tons of minorities, most of them do not resort to violence, i wonder why that is. i'd really love to hear a politically correct explanation, because there's no doubt that North African Muslims are not the only disadvantaged group in existance.

if you don't get my drift, let's just say that injustice is being commited not reduced by these actions. of course, if you call us right wing extremists once more, perhaps this minor problem in your line of argument will magically vanish allowing you to return to your dream world where anyone not bending down for political correctness is a narrow-minded racist, although i doubt it. is personal smear really all you're capable of?

PS: on top of all that they're ungrateful, guess who built their homes and pays for their schools, gave them sanitation, medical services and many other things they could only dream of if they lived in their country of origin? social programs mostly, ie. the taxpayers.

finally, is there ANYTHING you appeasers can credibly suggest that would reliably put an end to rioting? thought so, we're all guilty but there's nothing we can do to change that, right?? fine ideology of yours.

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Long Lance]


Right on


What no one from the appeaser side seems willing to deal with is that the only poor people rioting are muslims.

I want to know exactly why that is. Why is it ONLY the Muslims rioting, and not the hordes of other poor people, like catholics?

[edit on 9-11-2005 by American Mad Man]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 09:51 AM
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if you think i'm bad:

www.fredoneverything.net...

[edit on 9-11-2005 by Long Lance]



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 11:35 AM
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Only one though from somebody that is all for equality and opportunity.

I am very upset that something like that is happening in Frances, I really feel that riots, burning and mayhem is not the right way to bring attention to a minority group not in this time and age.

If the people that are rioting are so upset with life in France why they just don't pack up their belongings and go back to their country of origin they are after all guess in a land that is not of their birth right.

Very sad, very sad, It kind of make me rethink my stance about immigrants and their change to a better life away from their own country.

I probably will turn very negative if that is happening in the US I probably donate my services to help them get in airplanes bound to their lands with one way ticket.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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It just seems to me that people give in to animal behavior too easily anymore, I dont have answers for the issues or problems, but jeez do they really need to torch some 5000 cars to make a point?
I am not a supporter of the French Government, but I do feel for the average guy who is caught in the middle of this spasm.
Seems that people just give in to the animal too easily any more, I won't even give them the out of "mob mentality" because really there is no such thing, it is people who behave badly because an opprotunity presented itself.




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