POLITICS: Dems Force Senate into Secret Session

It is just partisan politics. And people should understand that a closed session of Congress is a "legal" procedure:

“Secret,” or “closed,” sessions of the House and Senate exclude the press and thepublic. They are held to discuss business such as Senate deliberations duringimpeachment trials, issues of national security, and sensitive communications receivedfrom the President, all deemed to require confidentiality and secrecy. During a secretsession, the doors of the chamber are closed, and the chamber and its galleries are clearedof all individuals except Members and those officers and employees specified in the rulesor essential to the session. Secret sessions occur infrequently, but any Member ofCongress may request one. For more information on the legislative process, see[www.crs.gov...].

Closed sessions

But the Dems are pulling out all the stops in order to get what they want. Now that they have used the closed session option, it is highly unlikely that they would do it again. It's going to be a hard act to follow, and they have just used up another bullet, IMO.

Its postively Orwellian

To stand back and watch the endless distractions manufactured.

Depending on an ill-informed public Reid et al along with a very cooperative media are keeping many from the truth.

Most if not all assertions brought up with yesterdays stunt have been well reported on in many many official reports.

The Democratic party and its base are now on a mission of "say it enough times - it'll become true"

Think long, think hard - the distractions are for a very good reason.

What truth don't they (Democrats) want you to know

If you ask whats this mean - you are in most need of asking the question above.

Phoenix, I applaud your contributions to the pot of mindless cliches. Thank you.

Politics IS partisan. It always has been and always will be. The cries of "the evil democrats" are petty replies to this situation. A situation created by the Republican parties ability to move as fast as molasses when it comes to investigating faults committed on its watch.

Reid pulled a stunt in order to get answers. If he gets answers then that stunt will have been well worth it. And if he doesn't... at least the single party dominance can no longer go unchecked.



Thats the beauty of partisan politics. Once it gets started everyone wants to work together.

Oh poor dear right wing babies...my ohh so liberal heart cannot work up the gumption to bleed for you. The horror, the horror...Its scandalous absolutely scandalous. I am shocked I tell you shocked to see Bush bashing going on. Like so many bullies ya just can't stand it when the tables are turned. Lest you forget the rest of the country had to put up with 8 years of vicious, partisan attacks against Clinton, develing into his personal life and impeaching the man for lying about consensual abit adulterous, yet consensual sex. You were so blind in your hatred of Clinton that even going into the impeachment you couldn't even see that according to every poll, the rest of the country was not with you. You people spent millions of public money going after "shoddy land deals", none of which panned out (the investigations that is) so your partisian prosecutor Starr had to go after Clintons sex life to get an inditment, none of which was his damned business to begin with and so beyond the scope of his charter I am surprised it was allowed to begin with. Every single scandal you went after Clinton over flopped including the very last ones, trashing the White House by Clinton aides...the GAO looked into it and found that the charges were baseless and when those Clinton aides demanded an apology the Bush team told them that if they knew what was good for them they would just shut up. And now you are whining about Bush bashing. Oh you poor dear things. It was just a matter of sour grapes...after 12 years of Reagan/Bush, you guys lost the White House. It wasn't Clinton, it was the fact you lost...Jesus Christ himself could have beaten Bush Senior and you would have gone after him...(what was that thing about Mary Magdalene all about?, I can see Starr asking and what do you mean "What is Truth?" And about blasting those fig trees?) And what is this democrat forced secret session about? Something far more serious than lying about a BJ, lying about the intelligence we used to go to war. If as Muaddip says "everybody" thought Hussien had weapons of mass destruction, then why lie to make the case stronger, if lying was done. It does the country no harm to look into these things and it does it worlds of harm to refuse to...after all we still function under (at least under the pretense) an open government. No administration, Republican or Democrat should be afraid of the truth if they truely have the nations interests at heart.

hear ye hear ye...

Most of us ATSers are quite excited about what this 'secret session' might imply. HOWEVER, let us not get carried away republican vs. democrat/ liberal vs. conservative rhetoric.

Let us be happy that this is finally happening (if* it actually is). The administration in position today is neither republican nor democrat; it is 'treasonous.' Lets join together Americans and nevermind the same old punchlines based on a 2 party system that is broken.

Originally posted by jsobecky
It is just partisan politics.

Actually it's not, the reason for doing it and they have stated why, is because the republican party does not want an investigation into the cia operatives leak. They said they are tired of the secrecy this party is continuing to exhibit, not only did plame get outed by this administration but 12 other career cia op's got outed as well, all for what? for political gain.
Valerie Plame has been in this field for over 20 some years, the contacts she has established throughout those years for the cia are ruined, and so are the other 12. That has weaked the CIA, and that has weakened this country.


And Bush has the audacity to joke about it to the foreign press calling the leak an inside joke??

source

I was watching C-span last night on this issue as i've come to the realization that oI cannot watch news stations when it comes to politics and serious issues facing this country. So i've opted for Cspan they have live hearings, speeches, ect right from the devil's mouths. I'd rather have it that way personally so i don't get indoctrinated.

I turned it on fox and i saw 'democrats hijacked senate' msnbc said the same thing, i turned it on cnn and luckily they had joe wilson on there giving his side of the story. But I kept it on cspan to listen to the democrats talk about why they did it, what the republican party is keeping from the american people, they wanted to know why such secrecy and we have that right to know, and we have the right to have a full investigation into this.

Fact of the matter is, Cheney and Rove are at the heart of this leak, there is proof that Cheney let Rove know of the interview w/ novak two years ago, and on June 12, 2003 notes were taken by Lewis Libby on this date during a conversation with Dick Cheney, indicate that Libby first heard about CIA agent Valerie Wilson from the vice president. This appears to conflict with testimony Libby would later give to the grand jury where he claimed he first heard about Wilson from journalists.

Cheney is condescending enough to inform the press about something if someone cheesed him off.

They had it out for Joe Wilson because he went to Niger and found that there was no evidence of Niger sending enriched uranium to Iraq (that was Cheney's baby, Wilson killed his baby).

---------------------------------

From an Article/Reporter who's been following this.

The plan was for Cheney & Novak to make the info about Wilson's wife "common knowledge around Washington." That was the first wave of the attack. The second wave was initiated when Cheney told Rove that he (Cheney or his office) had put Wilson's wife's identity in print, and that she and her identity were now, "fair game." Rove, or people working with Rove, then made the fair game phone calls to the media, knowing that Cheney & Novak had laid the groundwork to cover their asses (legally) by making the secret information, "common knowledge around Washington."

Novak and the White House are trying to convince us that the Novak disclosure and the "fair game" phone calls were taking place as one continuous event, but they were not. The Novak crimes (disclosures) were designed to set up the fair game phone calls from Rove. This was a two-point plan. Novak is knowingly trying to mislead any would-be investigations and may eventually go down for this obvious obstruction (at least).

Scott McClellan completed the second wave on October 1 (10/01/03). When asked to make a distinction between disclosing the identity of a covert CIA operative and discussing it after it is published, McClellan said, "That is such a broad question, about is it okay to discuss news articles," he said. "I mean, news articles are discussed all the time."

So, is there one top-level White House official whose email, phone records, etc? are not being protected by orders of the Justice Department? Is there one top-level White House official who does not work in the White House and whose staff is not under evidence protection orders or legal scrutiny? Is Cheney watching and laughing?

I asked the Department of Justice lead investigator and counterespionage chief, John Dion, whether or not Cheney's offices and staff were coming under the same investigatory umbrella as the White House. Dion abruptly and rudely ended our would-be conversation with, "I'm not discussing the investigation." Evidently, the D.O.J. has decided that The People's right to know about ongoing investigations into national security emergencies extends to the CIA, the State Department, the Pentagon, and the White House; but when it comes to Dick Cheney's offices, it's a completely different ball game.


Mike Hersh
-------------------------------------------

my sources are from cspan. You can watch the proof on cspan tv here

Also here is Novak's original article from 2003 'mission to niger'
Novak's
original article


Also It is a federal crime, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, for a federal official to knowingly disclose the identity of a covert CIA official if the person knows the government is trying to keep it secret.

Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, in the memo -- is mentioned in the second paragraph of the three-page document, which was written on June 10, 2003, by an analyst in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), according to a source who described the memo to The Washington Post.

The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.

July 25, 2005 Article about Plame's Identity
www.washingtonpost.com...


[edit on 2-11-2005 by TrueLies]

Who cares whose party is doing what, the truth of the matter is that the president and his scum buddies lied to the Senate, the House of Representatives and the citizenry of the United States which means it's time to impeach him for high crimes and misdemeanors. All you die hard republicans can gripe all you want, it's Nixon all over again and soon GWB will riding Air Force One back to Texas for the last time just like his dumb fellow Texan, LBJ did.

Originally posted by TrueLies

Originally posted by jsobecky
It is just partisan politics.

Actually it's not, the reason for doing it and they have stated why, is because the republican party does not want an investigation into the cia operatives leak. They said they are tired of the secrecy this party is continuing to exhibit, not only did plame get outed by this administration but 12 other career cia op's got outed as well, all for what? for political gain.

Political gain for who? How much more gainful can you be than to be part of the majority party in this admin? What they want is to continue the investigations in hopes of indicting Rove and/or Cheney. Why? Because they lost again in 2004 and instead of working towards 2008 and a good shot at occupying the White House, they are acting like children. They only want to embarass Bush and to tear apart this administration.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that if this were the first time the Dems have done something like this since last election. Think about it: from Iraq to Katrina to Gitmo to Abu Ghraib to whatever, they have been falling all over themselves to condemn this administration as soon as something happens. I am not a Democrat because I could never see these people representing me. Kerry, Kennedy Clinton, Boxer, Schumer. All with the sour faces. The list goes on. Never would I be proud to introduce them as my Senator or friend.

And you don't think that it is partisan politics?

Valerie Plame has been in this field for over 20 some years, the contacts she has established throughout those years for the cia are ruined, and so are the other 12. That has weaked the CIA, and that has weakened this country.

I'll bet you a buck that it will soon be revealed that her status of working for the CIA was fairly common knowledge inside the beltway for years. She was the one that recommended her husband for the trip to Niger. She recommended him to the CIA. Now how did she have such influence at the CIA as to give them a recommendation? The point is, even if she were not allegedly "outed" it would have come out anyway.

I was watching C-span last night on this issue as i've come to the realization that oI cannot watch news stations when it comes to politics and serious issues facing this country. So i've opted for Cspan they have live hearings, speeches, ect right from the devil's mouths. I'd rather have it that way personally so i don't get indoctrinated.

CSPAN is good. I watch it also. I heard that when Reid announced a closed session yesterday, CSPAN was on blank screen. I don't know if true, I was watching Fox at the time.

Fact of the matter is, Cheney and Rove are at the heart of this leak, there is proof that Cheney let Rove know of the interview w/ novak two years ago, and only july 10 Rove let Libby informed libby, but when it came time to interview Rove he kept lying about it, and then Cheney also had the audacity to say he didn't even know who joe wilson was.

I believe it's possible that Cheney didn't know who WIlson was. Contrary to popular belief, Cheney did not send Wilson to Niger. Cheney said he wanted a report, the CIA sent Wilson, at his wife's request.

They had it out for Joe Wilson because he went to Niger and found that there was no evidence of Niger sending enriched uranium to Iraq (that was Cheney's baby, Wilson killed his baby).

True, but not the entire story. Lots more to it than that.

I love to watch the dems and reps knock it out...
I dont mean the actual politicians... they exchange kisses behind closed doors...
I mean the ignorant sheeple that consider themselves demorats or repuglicans...
yes, bicker and fight... while the two parties lead laugh you to hell

"the only hope for a strong noncorrupt America relys upon a strong 3rd party option to keep the other two in line" - laz

from LazarusTheLong
I mean the ignorant sheeple that consider themselves demorats or repuglicans...

Care to elaborate on just who you are referring to? Names would be fine.


[edit on 2-11-2005 by jsobecky]

I have a simple proposal to end all of this political maneuvering. Seems the purpose of government has been lost and there is no way back. My proposal is simple: Vote Out The Elect; or VOTE. Anyone desiring political office should be denied access to such. Nobody should be permitted to remain in office for more than a set term. Our wonderful country has an elite managing class of politicians who seemingly have lost their way. It is all about power and the wielding of power. Tom Delay is a perfect example of power run amok. If we left the basic day to day management of the country to career bureaucrats things would run far more smoothly. We have become a country of laws and law suits. Many countries have what is called a vote of confidence. The United Kingdom is one such country. People need to be hled accountable for their actions. So, why not have a rotation of citizens into positions of authority. Sort of like the the process utilized by the UN Security Council where even small entities can be seated on equal footing with the big boys. We need to eliminate these frivilous lawsuits by adopting a procedure whereby the one who initiates and subsequently loses the case must pay the legal fees of the one charged and found innocent. Also, we need to do away with this unanimous decision of 12 jurors. I propose a majority of 9 out of 12 be needed. That way one person cannot subvert the decision of the entire body. It is not a matter of guilt or innocence. It is all about the possibility of even the most remote circumstance. Common sense has to be reintroduced.
We have lost our way. Those who believe in the Bible say the end is near. We need to become involved and need to do it now.
So, now we have some arcane machinations in Congress to derail the appointment of a Supreme Court Justice. I am not against someone being voted down. I am against manipulation.
I am back to my proposal. If those elected fail to do what they promised and what they were elected to do they should be removed immediately; thus the vote of confidence.
Think about it. You don't have to agree. Just think. Aristotle once said, "It is the mark of an intelligent mind to be able to entertain a thought withour accepting it."
pml

You have packed a whole bunch of ideas/proposals into that one reply, pml. Some of them definitely warrant their own discussion. I'd suggest starting a separate thread on them.

jsobecky-
whom i am refering to is everyone who has fallen into the "game" of a supposed two party political scene.

we have only one party of politicians for the last 50 or so years...
the corrupt party... aka, the elites, the BSers, the game players...

even most of the politicians themselves are guilty of forgetting they are playing a game, but that just looks good for the public anyway...

the dems will emerge from this closed door session with new funding for pet projects, and some cash in there pocket... this was pay day , and the dems finally got paid for there part in this joke of war campaign...

you can't really be mad at them, afterall, they have seen the repubs fleece the american people for billions... they just wanted there part...

I REALLY hope i am wrong on all counts, but my experience with politicians has coated me with a very greasy layer of filth that doesn't clean off without special industrial solvent (manufactured by halliburton of course)

The committee has worked on the second phase of the review, Roberts said, but it has not finished. He blamed Democrats for the delays and said his staff had informed Democratic counterparts on Monday that the committee hoped to complete the second phase next week.

"Now we have this ... stunt 24 hours after their staff was informed that we were moving to closure next week," a clearly angry Roberts told reporters. "If that's not politics, I'm not standing here."


waaaaaaah, It's been said recently , that democrats (to use the famous incendiary name- LIBERALS-) have not been taking any action- that all they have been doing is gloating over Libby's indictment. If all they can do is look for some transparancy- and attempt to clean up some discrepencies in the lead -up to the wars, then so be it.

Whatever happened to discussion, debate, consensus? That is the question in this increasing polarity problem- Has the bush administration remembered the politic promise that "we will be a uniter- not a divider - " in the campaign of 2000- or has it's actions proven that the Banana Republicans/neocons wanted to overpower the senate, the House of representatives (illegally with gerrymandering), and change the judiciary over to the zealots?

I'm just enjoing the show- folks. The dems are out of power, so we can only use trick plays nowadays to even get our point across. The show must go on

Wow, not amazed that the Conservatives are whinning 10x more then any tree hugging liberal after Bush stole the 00 elections.

Also, watching Fox News, just waiting for the

"All you Good Wholesome Holy Republicans, these are the faces of the Democrats in the Senate, get your guns and invade the Senate and kill these Evil Truth SPreading Liberals or God/Bush will send you to hell!!!!"

I so glad not old enough to vote, just get to kick back and laugh as all the republicans go to jail as the democrats take over the government again. Will be nice to have the Oil Dictators leave so the buddies they have can't charge 300% more for a gallon of gas then what it costs to make it. To get our troops home will be a nice thing to instead of the planned invasion of Syria and Iran the Republicans have.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I wouldn't be so quick to say that if this were the first time the Dems have done something like this since last election. Think about it: from Iraq to Katrina to Gitmo to Abu Ghraib to whatever, they have been falling all over themselves to condemn this administration as soon as something happens.

Iraq, Katrina, Gitmo, Abu Gharib? Do you consider these to be Bush's successes? Issues that should not be criticized or looked upon with closer scrutiny, but lauded as good policy?

C'mon, curme, stop being funny. I mean, everytime something bad happens. Quick to criticize, quick to call for their ouster. Instead of sitting across the table and saying, how can we help the victims of Katrina? etc. And there's a big difference between looking at why something went wrong versus immediately condemning the admin as being corrupt and incompetent..

LazarusTheLong, now that's an explanation I can agree with. The Dems must be pretty hungry after 5 years away from the trough.

[edit on 2-11-2005 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
Who cares whose party is doing what, the truth of the matter is that the president and his scum buddies lied to the Senate, the House of Representatives and the citizenry of the United States which means it's time to impeach him for high crimes and misdemeanors. All you die hard republicans can gripe all you want, it's Nixon all over again and soon GWB will riding Air Force One back to Texas for the last time just like his dumb fellow Texan, LBJ did.

First of all, let's leave the insults aside, or is that all you people can use when communicating with others that have a different opinion from yours?

If the Clinton administration, together with pretty much every Democrat, wouldn't have told the world that Saddam had wmd, if they wouldn't have been so firm that something should be done about it in the past administrations, attacking sites in Iraq and forming coalitions to attack Iraq during the Clinton administration and even during the Bush administration and up to the war in Iraq.....

Only then it would be true that the present administration lied about Iraq, and they only wanted to make profits out of that war....

If none of the above was true and we could find evidence that proved that the Bush administration only went to war for profits, I would also want something done about that. But as I was saying, people conviniently are fogetting the truth for one reason or another.

Is the present administration using big corporations such as Halliburton? of course, you don't put middle or small size companies in charge of reconstruction efforts.

Originally posted by grover
would someone please tell me how wanting to know how wanting to know what misinformation was used to promote this war hurts America? Ried is right this republican congress has consistantly protected its own to the deteriment of the country. There isn't a member in it that has the moral courage to put the country first before the party and it is a real pity.

The problem, as you should know, is that when people ask for detailed info, info that is secret to protect assets, these same people are asking for all that information to be released not only to the American public, but to the entire world. There are many groups and governments that would love to get their hands in this information to root out spies and other assets used by the US to gather intelligence. But for some reason people forget this and more so when they try to use such information for political motives.

Originally posted by grover
Oh poor dear right wing babies...my ohh so liberal heart cannot work up the gumption to bleed for you.

grover, when are you going to grow up and be a man, or woman?.....

Humm....btw.... who was it exactly that stole documents that dealt with Iraq, when the Clinton administration was in power, and this man, who was working for Clinton, was caught red handed, yet not much could be done because he had trashed that evidence and nothing was known about what sort of information was so important that this man would risk his career and hide papers in his socks and briefs (I think he only hid the evidence in his socks, can't recall exactly right now) to dispose of said information?....

I am pretty sure it wasn't anyone from the Bush administration....

Anyone wants to guess who it was?....

I find it strange that all these people that keep bashing and blaming the present administration for supposedly falsifying information about Iraq, yet they don't seem to think much about that particular incident...



[edit on 2-11-2005 by Muaddib]