"The Troops Don’t Defend Our Freedoms"

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by NR
Tottaly incorrect, most people in U.S military is because they need money for college or they are high school drop outs and have no place to live or people who are mainly living with depression and have no where to go than the army....

I'm sure you're intimately aware of this... Your "location" being "Iran." :shk:

The military is not inclined to take high school drop outs, and are limited as to the number they can take with GED's.

So what if my location is in Iran? if you know so much than tell me since America has one of the biggest poverty and drug addicts along with homeless people and your saying none of them which has no place to go wouldnt choose the military?

Originally posted by NR
Tottaly incorrect, most people in U.S military is because they need money for college or they are high school drop outs and have no place to live or people who are mainly living with depression and have no where to go than the army....

Please explain/show how you have come by this 'information'.



.

[edit on 30-10-2005 by cjf]

The troops follow orders because that is what they are paid to do. They aren't paid to defend freedom. I have talked to numerous former military and when I asked if they would take a policing roll in a disaster(martial law) it was about 50/50 that said they would do that and those that wouldn't. They are drilled in the military to follow orders no matter the circumstance and they say on the side you don't have to follow unlawful ones but I know for a fact that some would enforce it and take away freedoms while others wouldn't enforce it citing it un american. They are not "brainwashed" they are paid to follow orders.

Originally posted by NR
So what if my location is in Iran? if you know so much than tell me since America has one of the biggest poverty and drug addicts along with homeless people and your saying none of them which has no place to go wouldnt choose the military?

Poverty level relative to the rest of the world.

Drug addiction relative to the rest of the world.

Homeless relative to the rest of the world.

If the US was such a backwater, how would we afford our defense spending?

Why would we see the constant influx of immigrants seeking a better life?

Do you believe your propaganda, or just engage in it to be inflammatory?

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by NR
So what if my location is in Iran? if you know so much than tell me since America has one of the biggest poverty and drug addicts along with homeless people and your saying none of them which has no place to go wouldnt choose the military?

Poverty level relative to the rest of the world.

Drug addiction relative to the rest of the world.

Homeless relative to the rest of the world.

If the US was such a backwater, how would we afford our defense spending?

Why would we see the constant influx of immigrants seeking a better life?

Do you believe your propaganda, or just engage in it to be inflammatory?

It doesnt matter how you compare poverty to the rest of the world or drug addicts but most of that comes from the U.S. and if you were to fight for your country you would already be in the army so most americans join the army to get paid or dont have enough money to go to college so army is their best choice....

Originally posted by NR
It doesnt matter *SNIP*

Indeed.

You can't support your claims.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Originally posted by NR
It doesnt matter *SNIP*

Indeed.

You can't support your claims.

Read all of it, it would make even more sense for you but since you cant answer me back than i dont blame ya....

Hey?
Did those of us that served in the real-world Gulf War 1 simply do it because we were told to or could it be because we were re-gaining the freedom of a nation and people, otherwise called Kuwait?!

Well as a GW one vet myself, I sure as hell didn't go to liberate Kuwaiti's.
I went because it was my job at that time, you do as told or you take the consequences.
Most of us didn't even know what was going on until we were in it.
Nobody came to us and said OK we're shipping out tomorrow to go liberate Kuwait. We weren't told anything in fact. All we knew were the rumours just like everyone else. We were about to embark on a scheduled 6 month cruise but the morning we flew to the port our ship was in we were told plans had changed. Not what the plans were changed to, or why. In fact we got most of our info from that mornings newspaper when Desert Shield started.

I wouldn't say troops are necessarily "brainwashed" BUT they are not told the full political picture just like any one here at home. The troops are sort of influenced to not be "political", but just to follow orders regardless of which parties leader is giving them.

Do you think I cared about liberating Kuwait? I would much rather we went and fed starving children in Africa or something, I guess that's not the job of the military but it would be damn more positive thing to do than "liberate" (I use that very loosely) a country I've barely heard of.

So you can't speak for ALL vets either.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me

Poverty level relative to the rest of the world.
Drug addiction relative to the rest of the world.

Homeless relative to the rest of the world.

From my personal experience the U.S. has one of the highest rich to poor divides of anywhere. Walk around a U.S. city and you'll see homeless people EVERYWHERE. Walk around a Euro city, looks a lot different believe me.
I live in a downtown city neighborhood and there are drugs everywhere you turn. It is not like that in Europe.
Americans like to think everything is all apple pie and the American dream, but the reality IS far from it. If you live in small townsberg U.S.A. then you probably don't see these things.

If the US was such a backwater, how would we afford our defense spending?

Well maybe that's why? Cause all the money IS being spent on defense, and defense of fabricated threats at that. How about putting some of that money in bettering peoples lives? But then people are poor because they're lazy right?

Why would we see the constant influx of immigrants seeking a better life?

Ever hear of the "grass is greener"? The World view of America comes mainly from Holyweird. And you know they portray America as being the perfect place where even the lowest paid workers live in big houses or nice apartments.
Read some stories from immigrants who come hear and then discover it's not the land of milk and honey as is portrayed. I am an immigrant so I have personal experience of this.

In fact I made a post a while back about a Russian immigrant on the early 1900's, Emma Goldman, and what she went through. You know what? I didn't get a single reply in that thread. It's funny how people avoid the truth when it contradicts their clouded view of how things really are.

If I can find it I'll link to it later, maybe you'll read it maybe not, it's up to you.

[edit on 30/10/2005 by ANOK]

So you can't speak for ALL vets either.

Souljah does a good job of that

I know that the Troops - ALL TROOPS - are "Brainwashed",

that is how the Military can create a Soldier, to be prepared to follow orderes, such as "Shoot to Kill". That is not natural, so thats why Soldiers have to be Trained to do it, trained to kill when ordered

So Souljah..what is your idea of training? What training do US troops undego that makes them all killers w/o thought?

If your idea of "killer" training is going to the range once maybe twice a year shooting at paper....then you are brainwashed. Hell rednecks and paintballers get more trigger time than your average soldier who's job is admin, supply or legal clerk...and that's not including the Navy and Airforce that have even less time in "killer" training (for the most part).

[edit on 30/10/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by SportyMB
So you can't speak for ALL vets either.
Souljah does a good job of that

Yes that was already established

Just pointing out he's not the only one who's good at that

You guys really like to pick at the anti-war, or as I prefer pro-peace crowd, because it does erk your concience doesn't it?
You work really hard to justify to yourselves your "support" of unesessary death, some of us don't fear what our hearts really tell us. We don't fear the need to do something, that admiting to ourselves the truth causes.

Originally posted by ANOK
You guys really like to pick at the anti-war, or as I prefer pro-peace crowd, because it does erk your concience doesn't it?

Not really, I would just like to see how Souljah came to that conslusion. Im not Pro-OIF, but I am pro-troop....I don't like us being there any more than you.

You work really hard to justify to yourselves your "support" of unesessary death,

See above statment

good post ANOK you got my vote.

You have voted ANOK for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

[edit on 30-10-2005 by NR]

Originally posted by McGuirk
I know there are troops out there who do realize the situation, but lets face it... a great number of them aren't exactly the brightest of the bunch. No offense to any military/ex-military people...

I have taken offence at what you quoted. You have no grounds what so ever in making an unsubstantiated remark like that.

How many is a great number? Have you got some real experience in the front line? Have you any real experience at what it is like going through training? Do you really think the Army employs anyone who is not 'exactly the brightest of the bunch'?

That comment you made is absolute rubbish. You want to talk Army life? U2U me and i will willingly answer any questions you may have. My answers are based on fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Soldiers are not brain washed. Fact.
My son certainly isn't, and neither am i.

Your facts come from your own opinion to which you are entitled, but having said that, sorry, but your opinion is wrong.

Post deleted, because not of a serious nature.

[edit on 30-10-2005 by MajorCee]

Originally posted by Bikereddie
Soldiers are not brain washed. Fact.

Putting the word 'fact' behind an opinion does not make it a fact. You 2 have different opinions. Without data to back it up, neither is fact.

Eddie - While I'm fairly sure you and your son aren't brainwashed (although I doubt brainwashed people are aware of the brainwashing) it's well known that one of the methods of the military is to 'break down' a soldier and 'build him or her back up' in the desired form. It's a form of control and dare I say 'brainwashing'. Maybe not all soldiers are brainwashed, but I'm fairly sure some are.

Your facts come from your own opinion to which you are entitled, but having said that, sorry, but your opinion is wrong.

Opinions are neither right or wrong. They're opinions.

[edit on 30-10-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

Maybe not all soldiers are brainwashed, but I'm fairly sure some are.

Ofcourse...probably more than a few. There is always a "some" factor...as in all things. Some people are brainwashed.....is not limited to the military.

FACT - not all soldiers are brainwashed

FICTION - all soldiers are brainwashed

know the difference (not directed at any one person)

r/s
sporty


[edit on 30/10/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by SportyMB
There is always a "some" factor...as in all things. Some people are brainwashed.....is not limited to the military.

FACT - not all soldiers are brainwashed

FICTION - all soldiers are brainwashed

I agree.

Neither of these is true:
All soldiers are brainwashed
No soldiers are brainwashed

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Having said that, I believe that there is a concerted attempt by the military to brainwash soldiers, so I tend to believe that there are many who are. That is, of course, my opinion.

Originally posted by cjf

Originally posted by NR
Tottaly incorrect, most people in U.S military is because they need money for college or they are high school drop outs and have no place to live or people who are mainly living with depression and have no where to go than the army....

Please explain/show how you have come by this 'information'.



.

[edit on 30-10-2005 by cjf]

I joined because I wanted money for school, but also because my family has always served. Withouth the money for school, I would probobly still have served.

[edit on 30-10-2005 by Dronetek]