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"The Troops Don’t Defend Our Freedoms"

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posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 05:39 AM
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How often do we hear the claim that American troops “defend our freedoms”? The claim is made often by U.S. officials and is echoed far and wide across the land by television commentators, newspaper columnists, public-school teachers, and many others. It’s even a common assertion that emanates on Sundays from many church pulpits.



1. Foreign regimes

Every competent military analyst would tell us that the threat of a foreign invasion and conquest of America is nonexistent. No nation has the military capability of invading and conquering the United States. Not China, not Russia, not Iran, not North Korea, not Syria. Not anyone. To invade the United States with sufficient forces to conquer and “pacify” the entire nation would take millions of foreign troops and tens of thousands of ships and planes to transport them across the Atlantic or Pacific ocean. No foreign nation has such resources or military capabilities and no nation will have them for the foreseeable future.


2. Terrorists

Despite widespread fears to the contrary, there is no possibility that terrorists will conquer the United States, take over the government, and take away our freedoms. At most, they are able to kill thousands of people, with, say, suicide bombs but they lack the military forces to subjugate the entire nation or any part of it.


3. The federal government

As our Founding Fathers understood so well, the primary threat to our freedom lies with our own government. That’s in fact why we have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights — to protect us and our freedoms from federal officials. If the federal government did not constitute such an enormous threat to our freedoms, there would be no reason to have the Constitution and the Bill of Rights

As I suggested in my article, “The Troops Don’t Support the Constitution,” in the United States the loyalty of the troops is to the president as their supreme commander of chief, not to the Constitution. Recent evidence of this point, as I observed in my article, was the willingness of the troops to obey presidential orders to deploy to Iraq despite the fact that the president had failed to secure the constitutionally required congressional declaration of war.


The solution

No one can deny that we now live in a nation in which the president wields, albeit unconstitutionally, the omnipotent power to send the entire nation into war against another nation — and that he has the means — a loyal and obedient army — to exercise that power. President Bush made his position clear prior to his invasion of Iraq, when he emphasized that while he welcomed the support of Congress in the event he decided to wage war on Iraq, he didn’t need its approval.

We should also bear in mind the perverse results of the federal government’s military empire and overseas interventions. World War I brought World War II, which brought the Soviet communist occupation of Eastern Europe, which brought the Cold War, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, along with an enormous standing army in our country. The Middle East interventions and meddling have brought us terrorism, the war on terrorism, the USA PATRIOT Act, the Padilla doctrine, military torture and sex abuse, and CIA kidnappings and “renditions” to foreign countries for the purpose of proxy torture.

One vision — the vision of militarism and empire — will bring America more violence, death, destruction, impoverishment, and loss of freedom. The other vision — the vision of a limited-government, constitutional republic with citizen-soldiers — would put our nation back on the right road of peace, prosperity, harmony, and freedom.


Source:
The Future of Freedom Fountation

Very Interesting Article, that really gets a better impact if read fully, by clicking on the Link I provided.

It just Shows that the Road the the current US Admin is taking right now, will lead America to more Violence and more Losses of Freedoms. The Road that they are currently on is complelty militant and imperialistic and does have actually very little to do with democracy and freedom. This Road is almost entirely being controlled by the Pentagon (Cheney-Rumsfled Cabal) and the Goverments Military Empire, that has the Need to spread - just like every Military Force in History. To them Wars bring Prosperous Times...

Bottom line is, that United States today are the Worlds Strongest Military Force, and are currently being governed by the extremly Militant Goverment, full of Secrecies and Internal Struggles - as being shown today, when the Scandals errupt from the White House, blaming the presidental administration of Forgery of Evidence. How Ironic, that vice president Cheney, the man standing in the court today, is also the CEO of the Company, that made Biggest Profits after the 9-11-War on Terror Invasions of Middle Eastern countries, such as Afganistan and Iraq.

And these Men have a Vision - a vision of an Endless Conflcit, that would bring Endless Profit, and Endless presence of Fear, that would assure them full support of the People - because when the people are afraid, they belive and consume everything that their goverment serves them.

[edit on 30/10/05 by Souljah]




posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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and the thing is too, and im sure some of the ex-military people can back me up on this, is that a great number of the troops in this nation have been broken down and brainwashed into following those orders, and most of them probably don't have a clue that they are being used for such a maniacal(sp?) purpose. I know there are troops out there who do realize the situation, but lets face it... a great number of them aren't exactly the brightest of the bunch. No offense to any military/ex-military people...

just an example from when i was at the MEPS station before taking my asvab and physical... there was a man there who i was talking to and before long he asked me why everyone was walking around with black dots on their foreheads ( it was ash wednesday). i answered him , telling him about the lent holiday and such. He told me he had never heard of such a thing. Now i know that alot of people have different religions and such... but seriously who doesnt know what lent is?

anyways, that was just to illustrate my point about some of the people we have joining today's military.



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 05:51 AM
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Great post SoulJah, you get my last vote for this month...


You have voted Souljah for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.


I'll wait to see what other people say before I make any real comments.

But I'll say this..."violence breeds violence" always has, always will.

People don't realize how everything is connected throughout our history, no event is singular. Everything is a result of what went before.

*Edited to add comments*


McGuirk, I am ex-miltary myself and I agree with you, not too many free thinkers in the military.
But you know when you are in the military you really don't have time to look at the big picture, you have your job to do. They fill you with "pride" and quickly silence those that don't tow the line. And as most people don't have the baloney to ruin their carreer and posibly the rest of their lives by speaking out, they just get on with it and wait for their period of service to be over. Then we speak out

You get marked very quickly as a trouble maker and things can get very dificult very fast. Your very livelihood is in the hands of your imediate superiors, in evaluations etc...Get bad evals, no promotion, got crappy jobs need doing guess what? Want to get stationed somewhere, aint gonna happen, you'll get sent to the worst place they can find.
Get on the wrong side of someone in a position to screw you, life gets bad pretty quick.
Get discharged with a bad conduct, you'll find it as hard to get a decent job as an ex-con.


[edit on 30/10/2005 by ANOK]



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by McGuirk
and the thing is too, and im sure some of the ex-military people can back me up on this, is that a great number of the troops in this nation have been broken down and brainwashed into following those orders, and most of them probably don't have a clue that they are being used for such a maniacal(sp?) purpose. I know there are troops out there who do realize the situation, but lets face it... a great number of them aren't exactly the brightest of the bunch. No offense to any military/ex-military people...

This is not a Criticism of the Troops themselves - but the Goverment and their Militant Purposes. I know that the Troops - ALL TROOPS - are "Brainwashed", that is how the Military can create a Soldier, to be prepared to follow orderes, such as "Shoot to Kill". That is not natural, so thats why Soldiers have to be Trained to do it, trained to kill when ordered. And ofcourse the Army does not want any anti-War thoughts or ideas in their ranks - that would cause a rebellion or a collapse of Armed forces. So, ofcoruse, they are under the direct influence of Military Proapganda Machine, which is designed to influence the Soldiers in the way, that they think they "know the enemy".

But that happens in Armed forces around the World. That is how the keep control. That is how they Manipulate them. That is how, they can give our Orders. But the problem lies in the Militant Goverment, that uses this Armed forces for their Purposes - and the current US Admin has shown us plenty of times, that they indeed are a "War Administration" and that the current leader is really a "War President". Check the US Military Budget - and then compare it to the rest of the World.

I understand your point, and I hope you understand mine - that this is not a post to Bash the soldiers, becuase they are just Peons in this War.



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 06:08 AM
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no no no, i wasnt trying to bash the soldiers, i am just saying that the soldier who joins the military voluntarily does so to serve his country, and that country is currently selling him out to evil purposes. I do understand your point entirely, i think i may have come across wrong in my post. My point was that the soldier who is there to serve his country is actually serving to a small group of people, but is still under the impression that he/she is serving their country, which i believe is part of the point of your post.

if i'm off the mark on that, please aim me in the correct direction



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Great post SoulJah, you get my last vote for this month...


You have voted Souljah for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.


Thank You very Much for the WATS Awards!



Awesome Avatar, by the way!





I'll wait to see what other people say before I make any real comments.

You waiting for somebody Special to Arrive before you comment?





But I'll say this..."violence breeds violence" always has, always will.

Yes - and I think that the Majority of the people do not realize that.

Have you seen a french movie called La Haine - Hate?

Excellent movie and has a Great intro:

"The story of Human society today is like a Man falling from a Skyscraper. He is falling and falling, and during the fall he keeps telling himself - "so far, so good, so far so good, so far so good..." But the problem is, that it does not matter How you Fall, but how you LAND...."



People don't realize how everything is connected throughout our history, no event is singular. Everything is a result of what went before.

And ofcourse, then we have the case of History Repeating...

Typically Human - not learning from his mistakes when its time to, but starting to see them, when its too late...



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 06:16 AM
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to anok:

After i took my asvab i qualified for any job with a score of 93... my recruiter was amazed (she told me like 1 out of 100 people score higher than 75 or something), which in turn amazed me since the test seemed like a 7th grader could pass it easily... anyways, i then moved on to take my physical and was disqualified for having high blood pressure. so i didnt actually get in to the service. i still have my disqualification papers, so as to use them at a later time (ie a draft).



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 07:36 AM
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If you ask me, I don't get it why the U.S Administration and other media worldwide uses the expression that the U.S troops is "defending freedom". The way I see it is that it is rather a "force freedom" rather than defending it. You take away thousands of lives just to ensure "freedom" is to prevail in countries that have been ravaged by the war the U.S led coalition has initiated. Some may say it is a noble duty to die for freedom, yes, but I don't see anything noble in killing others to ensure freedom. This in turns fuels more anger to the insurgents and nationalists(if one exist in e.g Iraq).

The fact that violence breeds violence is ever so true in this scenario we have currently. It is a prime example of the "Chaos Theory" or also known as the Butterfly Effect. I strongly believe that U.S will never stop "defending freedom" much to the dismay of many people.

Since nobody can ever stop the U.S, I guess we have to wait til it crumbles from within.



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 08:11 AM
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I take it I'm the only one then thats worried by this link then huh?

Just asking, what would you prefer?

Armed militia or a well trained military?


Also "Brainwashed"?
No, my friends in the military arnt and my to be cousin in law sure as hell isnt. Also: "Shoot to kill" , take your the one that believes the police shouldnt have weapons ethier?

"To all those that want to change our police service, i say undersyand it and hear its heartbeat before you tamper with its finest."
Fred Broughton, OBE. Chairmen of the police federation of england and wales.

The services are suposed to be weapons which the public can use against crime, but more than often there not seen in that light. And only the bad news about them will reach the news, there acts of heroism and bravery defending lives goes unrecorded by the masses and only remembered by the services and only by the services.



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 08:46 AM
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Armies are a political tool, used to impose the will of politicians. As such they are fed the line that they are serving their respective country, not the individuals that send them to fight, which is, of course, just ridiculous.
The politicians that send the armies to war dress up the excuses any way they like to get support from the masses.

Wars are fought for control of resources / economics. Of course, the people fighting the wars don't benefit, neither do the folks at home paying taxes to pay for the war. The corporate backers bankrolling the war, making weapons and reaping the benefits in rebuilding in the post-conflict aftermath are the real winners. If peace broke out these corporations would go to the wall, along with a lot of politicians in their pockets.
Where conflict does not exist, someone will make it happen in order to keep the money flowing. I often wonder, when watching news reports of war torn third-world countries with farmers brandishing assault rifles, where does the money come from to bankroll the arms supply and why?

To serve in any noble way is to protect your fellow human beings / countrymen and family from harm, fighting against an invader. NOT doing the bidding of a bunch of suits in plush offices who don't even send their own kids to fight alongside you.



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy
To serve in any noble way is to protect your fellow human beings / countrymen and family from harm, fighting against an invader. NOT doing the bidding of a bunch of suits in plush offices who don't even send their own kids to fight alongside you.

As I remember the queen sent several of her sons to fight alongside our lads, one was used as a missile decoy along with the entire flight wing....heh must be coward.



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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My husband IS a Marine. He always will be. He's the Marine of the house, of the family, hell, of Cape Cod.
I have orders to keep the house clean. Orders everyday. I cant touch his American flags, only he can handle them ever so carefully.

He fought in VietNam and did terrible things he didnt want to do. I dont know what they do to these men, but for over 20 years i have tried to soften him up. No sirreeee Bob. He is still tough. He spent time after the service in a for lack of a better word,a Mental institution in Philadelphia. That didnt help. He is the love of my life and i am his.

That being said, i guarantee you if he was a little younger he would re-enlist and serve again. Only because of his Marine status, love of country, and NOT because he likes Bush's war. He hates it.
Its a good thing, living with me.


My point i guess is that they train these people to do the job, and seemingly, they dont care about the politics behind it all.
Once they have their hands on them, it doesnt much matter if they are fighting a just war or not. Really.

Thanks for listening



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 10:46 AM
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Great post, Souljah!


Originally posted by Souljah
How often do we hear the claim that American troops “defend our freedoms”?


I know they don't. They do what they're told. And unfortunately, since our president and cronies don't care about the Constitution, it's falling by the wayside.



Originally posted by dgtempe
My point i guess is that they train these people to do the job, and seemingly, they dont care about the politics behind it all.
Once they have their hands on them, it doesnt much matter if they are fighting a just war or not. Really.


Thanks for that perspective. I agree. That is exactly why I can support the troops even though I'm very much against this administration and this particular 'war'. The troops are serving their country, doing a job they're committed to do, regardless of the reasons or particulars of that job. And when we need them to really protect our freedoms and fight for us, they've been there and (hopefully) will be there.

Just want to add that you're fortunate. My brother, who was also a Marine in VN, for unknown reasons has no contact with his family. We can't find him and he doesn't want to be found. We were once a very close family but his experience did something to him and we lost him. We're pretty sure he's alive in Colorado somewhere, but he can't face us or something. So, although he made it through VN, we lost him all the same.



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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I'm very sorry, BH. Perhaps he will turn up one day when he is ready.


You and I and many others accused of not supporting the troops because we have a different perspective on the war do support them
Its hard for some to realize that.
I told my little story just to clarify what we feel.

Bless you, DG



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Just thought I'd point out, that while the Iraq war is not defending our freedom, the presence of our military does.

If we had not army whatsoever, we would lose our freedom.

If we had not mobilized to fight WWII, there is a good chance that we would have lost our freedoms.



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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as posted by Souljah
I know that the Troops - ALL TROOPS - are "Brainwashed"...

Have you served O'Great Revolutionary, Souljah?
If you have not, how the hell do you know with such assuredness?! O'Great Revolutionary, please, in your own benevolent time, enlighten those of us who wish to know, how exactly you do know, m'k?
You are a typical anti-war proponent who spouts the typical garbage of nonsense, period.

On today's plate of 'a' typical Souljah-served garbage is the all encompassing, stereotypical, and the absolute characterization that "all" troops/soldiers are "brainwashed".

Heads-up! Many of you need to get a clue!?
One talks about her Marine brother in Vietnam, who can not be found, does not want to be found, but says such in the same breath and commentary as troops/soldiers do not defend freedom, they just obey orders. A perspective given only from one isolated view.

Hey?
Did those of us that served in the real-world Gulf War 1 simply do it because we were told to or could it be because we were re-gaining the freedom of a nation and people, otherwise called Kuwait?! Ermm, that to me, when applied to the bigger real-world "get a clue," implies "defending freedom"! And definately it was not defending "our", but someone elses freedom to boot? Hello?!

Obviously, some here have no real-world clue as to what "defending freedom" is or implies in relation to "our". All freedom loving people deserve freedom, because that puts all of us freedom loving people that do deserve freedom into the category of "OUR". And more apparently, some here have massive, self-delusional mis-interpretations of troops/soldiers when applied to the absolute characterization of "brainwashed." Incidentally, if "brainwashed" can simply and easily be applied to labeling troops/soldiers, be warned, it can just as easily be applied to those of you who make up the civilain population.

Btw, have you all read your brainwashing anti-whatever literature today?!






seekerof

[edit on 30-10-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 02:25 PM
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You have voted Seekerof for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

-REASON



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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I know that the Troops - ALL TROOPS - are "Brainwashed", that is how the Military can create a Soldier, to be prepared to follow orderes, such as "Shoot to Kill". That is not natural, so thats why Soldiers have to be Trained to do it, trained to kill when ordered.

So Souljah, why are ALL TROOPS brainwashed? Is it becuase they are ALL trained to kill on command?

If you think that Souljah, then you are the one brainwashed. Most (80%, give or take) soldiers just know how to shoot once a year when do finally make it out to the range...they have regular jobs like supply clerks, admin, comm etc..etc... It's like that for all the branches.

And how can you say ALL TROOPS??? There are many active Marines, Soldiers and Airmen on ATS that oppose the war in Iraq and would not never "shoot to kill" on order just because someone told them to...maybe if it came down to life or death they would...like most people. It is possible for someone to serve thier country in the military and not agree 100% with the current administration, OIF, OEF, and all that other garbage spewing from your dumpster.

r/s
sporty

[edit on 30/10/2005 by SportyMB]


NR

posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by LeftBehind
Just thought I'd point out, that while the Iraq war is not defending our freedom, the presence of our military does.

If we had not army whatsoever, we would lose our freedom.

If we had not mobilized to fight WWII, there is a good chance that we would have lost our freedoms.



Tottaly incorrect, most people in U.S military is because they need money for college or they are high school drop outs and have no place to live or people who are mainly living with depression and have no where to go than the army....



posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by NR
Tottaly incorrect, most people in U.S military is because they need money for college or they are high school drop outs and have no place to live or people who are mainly living with depression and have no where to go than the army....


I'm sure you're intimately aware of this... Your "location" being "Iran." :shk:

The military is not inclined to take high school drop outs, and are limited as to the number they can take with GED's.



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